Ted,
The following entry, from the 1851 Census of Montgomeryshire (CD pub. by the
Powys FHS), includes 2 John MORGANs in the same family, oddly enough, but
both were born in Forden and are the only possibilities in the area
(including Welshpool):
1851, Parish of Forden:
MORGAN, John h m 42 shoemaker MGY Forden Hem /f447/p20
MORGAN, Elizabeth w m 35 SAL Salop Hem /f447/p20
MORGAN, Mary d u 20 MGY Forden Hem /f447/p20
MORGAN, Frances d u 18 MGY Forden Hem /f447/p20
MORGAN, John s 14 MGY Forden Hem /f447/p20
MORGAN, Samuel s 12 scholar MGY Forden Hem /f447/p20
MORGAN, Thomas s 9 scholar MGY Forden Hem /f447/p20
MORGAN, John s 7 scholar MGY Forden Hem /f447/p20
MORGAN, George s 4 scholar MGY Forden Hem /f447/p20
MORGAN, Elizabeth d 3 MGY Forden Hem /f447/p20
JONES, Mary Ann sd 12 scholar MGY Forden Hem /f447/p20
Since there's a step-daughter in the house, both John & Elizabeth were
probably widowed when they married, so some or all of the younger children
(i.e., Thomas, John, George & Elizabeth) were probably of the 2nd marriage.
The 1841 Census for John MORGAN, Shoemaker, living in Forden, will probably
show the first wife.
The 1881 entry for the same place apparently shows the elder brother, John
MORGAN, with no sign of the younger John MORGAN anywhere in Wales in 1881:
Dwelling: Hem Cottage
Census Place: Forden, Montgomery, Wales
Source: FHL Film 1342320 PRO Ref RG11 Piece 5492 Folio 68 Page
1
Marr Age Sex Birthplace
John MORGAN M 45 M Forden, Montgomery, Wales
Rel: Head
Occ: Boot Maker
Mary Ann MORGAN M 41 F Trewen, Shropshire, England
Rel: Wife
Occ: Boot Maker Wife
Jane Elizth. MORGAN U 14 F Forden, Montgomery, Wales
Rel: Daur
Occ: Scholar
Martha MORGAN 11 F Forden, Montgomery, Wales
Rel: Daur
Occ: Scholar
John MORGAN 8 M Forden, Montgomery, Wales
Rel: Son
Occ: Scholar
Forden and Welshpool are both parishes with their own records (and yes,
they're both in the vicinity of Montgomery). Incidentally, there was also
the "Forden House of Industry" (Work house) with its own records. Civil
Registration began July 1837, so you can obtain the younger John's birth
certificate directly from the Supt. Registrar at Welshpool (details on the
GENUKI pages), providing them with the above details. I suspect it's the
younger John you're after, if he had to lie about his age. Do you know
where he went after his return from India?
The original Parish Register for Forden (and for the House of Industry at
Forden) are held at the National Library of Wales, Aberystwyth, with a
microfilm copy held at the Powys County Archives, Llandrindod Wells, Powys
(see GENUKI pages). The Bishop's Transcripts of the parish register are
held at the Hereford Record Office and may have been microfilmed by the LDS
(Mormons) but you'll have to check. (The BT's are missing 1834-36 but go up
to 1863 after that). I would think the BT's would allow you to track this
MORGAN family back quite awhile, since the father was also born there,
although you probably won't find his 2nd marriage if they married in the
woman's parish in Shropshire/Salop. Perhaps the 1861 Census will show her
parish of origin.
GENUKI pages for Wales (look under Montgomeryshire, Civil Registration, for
Supt. Registrar's locations and details):
http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/
Look under Archives for Powys County Archives office. They might be willing
to do a lookup for you.
Suggest you check the stands for both Powys Family History Society and
Montgomeryshire Genealogy Society at
www.genfair.com -- I know the Powys
FHS have published the 1861 Census -- you'll need the Welshpool Enumeration
District. Otherwise, all of the census returns have been microfilmed by the
LDS.
Hope this helps!
Julie Preston
juliepreston(a)ameritech.net
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ted Lunny" <tedlunny(a)istar.ca>
To: <WLS-MONTGOMERYSHIRE-L(a)rootsweb.com>
Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2001 8:35 PM
Subject: John Morgan-Town of Welchpool, County of Montgomery
Hopefully I am posting to the correct group.
According to a military record that I have for my ancestor, John Morgan,
he was
apparantly born in the parish of Farden, Town of Welchpool in the
County of Montgomery. The date of the entry is March 1859 and he is listed
as 20 years and 0 months old and his religion is listed as Church of
England. My questions are:
Is this location near the Montgomery that I see on a map near the
Wales
border with England? My map isn't very detailed.
Do birth records exist for this period (approx 1839) for this area
and how
would I go about getting the information from such a record?
I am told that he may have lied about his age to get into the British
Army. He ended up in India for 10 years before returning home.
Thanks for any assistance.
Ted Lunny