Alan,
(I'm posting my reply and yours back to the list so others can follow if they're
interested.)
No, you didn't mislead me -- I was merely offering the details provided in the CM
registers as opposed to parish registers for your information and that of anyone else
reading the postings. (By the way, just because she married in the parish church
doesn't necessarily mean she was baptised in said church vs. a nonconformist chapel as
many people used both with no apparent rhyme nor reason, other than marriages weren't
allowed in chapels in early years -- sorry, can't think of the year that changed off
the top of my head.)
I see you have only found Elizabeth in the *index* to the 1901 census, which doesn't
provide you with her birthplace nor any other details that would be found in the full
entry of the household. Where were they living in 1901?
Your assumption that she was born in Llandrinio because that is where she was living at
the time of her marriage is premature -- still a possibility, but premature.
Based on the fact that she was living in Llandrinio in 1884, I found only 1 Elizabeth
LEWIS residing there in 1881. Note her mother is a widow -- did the marriage certificate
state her father was deceased (not always stated)? It is unclear whether the children in
this household belong to Elizabeth or to another child of Ellen's but they bear the
surname LEWIS and Elizabeth is still LEWIS, although her marital status is blank. (Do
these children show up in the household of George HUGHES & Elizabeth in 1901?) I
recommend locating the family in 1891 and obtaining the full household entry for both 1891
and 1901.
(This information from 1881 is also online at the LDS website:
www.familysearch.org)
1881 Census Index
Dwelling: Old Malthouse
Census Place: Llandrinio, Montgomery, Wales
Source: FHL Film 1342321 PRO Ref RG11 Piece 5497 Folio 76 Page 4
Marr Age Sex Birthplace
Ellen LEWIS W 64 F Criggon, Montgomery, Wales
Rel: Head
Elizabeth LEWIS 28 F Criggon, Montgomery, Wales
Rel: Daur
Occ: General Servant
Ellen LEWIS 4 F Criggon, Montgomery, Wales
Rel: Grand Daur
Mary Emma LEWIS 9 m F Criggon, Montgomery, Wales
Rel: Grand Daur
So, if this is your Elizabeth LEWIS, her birth parish was Criggion and not Llandrinio.
This is interesting, as my information shows the parish of Criggion was formed out of the
parish of Alberbury, Shropshire, in 1864, so any events prior to 1864 would be found in
those registers and, presumably, any births in Alberbury parish would've been
registered in Shropshire.
Alberbury parish was enumerated in Montgomeryshire in the 1851 Census but I find no
approx. 34-year-old Ellen (any surname) in Alberbury nor in the enumeration district of
Montgomery. It's possible Ellen and her husband lived just over the border in
Shropshire in 1851.
I looked also for a George HUGHES b.ca.1855 (+/- 5 years, born anywhere) in 1881 and found
only one listed in all of Montgomeryshire -- does this match his occupation when they were
married? (It appears Deythur is Llansanffraid Deuddwr -- maybe someone else can explain
that.) In any case, if this is your guy, he said he was born in Llansanffraid. (I
wouldn't worry about the inconsistency in age from one census to another.) His birth
certificate would be ordered from Welshpool and you should have his father's name and
occupation from the marriage cert.
1881 Census Index
Dwelling: Lower Trewylan
Census Place: Deythur, Montgomery, Wales
Source: FHL Film 1342321 PRO Ref RG11 Piece 5497 Folio 28 Page 1
Marr Age Sex Birthplace
Henry MORRIS M 42 M Llanyblodwel, Shropshire, England
Rel: Head
Occ: Farmer Of 213 Acres Employing 4 Men
Susanah MORRIS M 49 F Llandrinio, Montgomery, Wales
Rel: Wife
Occ: Farmers Wife
Evan CHIDLOW U 52 M Llanfechan, Montgomery, Wales
Rel: Serv
Occ: Farm Servant (Indoor)
George HUGHES U 23 M Llansnffraid, Montgomery, Wales
Rel: Serv
Occ: Farm Servant (Indoor)
Allen DAVIES U 28 M Llansilin, Denbigh, Wales
Rel: Serv
Occ: Farm Servant (Indoor)
Sarah PRICE U 19 F Llandisilio, Montgomery, Wales
Rel: Serv
Occ: Domestic Servnt
Sarah OWENS U 18 F Llansilin, Denbigh, Wales
Rel: Serv
Occ: Domestic Servnt
Thos.Edwd. JEFFREYS U 17 M Llanymynech, Shropshire, England
Rel: Serv
Occ: Domestic Servnt
Suggest you post a query also to the Powys mailing list to see if someone has the 1861
Census that includes Alberbury (that part that became Criggion) and look for the LEWIS
family -- Edward, wife Ellen/Elinor/Eleanor (about 34-35 yrs. old), daughter Elizabeth
(about 8 yrs., born Alberbury or Criggion). If you can locate them with the family still
intact, you should have a good idea of where they lived by the ages and birthplaces of all
of their children (assuming Elizabeth wasn't the eldest).
It'll be interesting to see whether the children shown in 1881 were Elizabeth's
illegitimate children -- she may not have taken them with her into a marriage and they may
have stayed on with their grandmother or other relatives.
Good luck!
Regards,
Julie Preston
juliefpreston(a)sbcglobal.net
----- Original Message -----
From: Alan England
To: Julie Preston
Sent: Saturday, October 15, 2005 8:53 PM
Subject: Re: [WLS-MGY] Elizabeth LEWIS baptised in LLandriniov circa 1853-55
Julie
First may I thank you for your efforts. However, I fear that inadvertently I may have
misled you.
Elizabeth LEWIS married George HUGHES on 28 Sep 1884 in Llandrinio in the parish church
"according to the Rites etc of the Church of England". So I guess the extra
information which might have been available from a Calvinist Methodist register is not to
be expected!
However, the marriage certificate records her age as 30? (bad second digit, but his age
is clearly 28). In the 1901 Census on-line index, both of them are recorded as being 46
yrs, but she was illiterate or there could have been a mistranscription. Anyway, she was a
spinster, her address at the time of marriage was Llandrinio, and her father's
occupation was Labourer. I assumed she was born & baptised in Llandrinio.
I followed your advice, and discovered an Elizabeth LEWIS born in 1853 in the
subdistrict of Llansanffraid-ym-mechain - Ref FFRAID/06/36. I presume this reference
number will enable me to order a copy of the birth certificate from Welshpool?
As you correctly say, Elizabeth's birth certificate is the key document here, and
with your help (especially the fact of Llandrinio being within the subdistrict of
Llansanffraid-ym-mechain), I am hopeful that I have identified the correct record. (As you
are well aware, Elizabeth LEWISes were very common in Montgomeryshire.) Without
establishing where Elizabeth was born, the location of her parents in 1851 remains very
speculative - they could have moved to Llandrinio before or after they married. It would
seem more feasible to identify the family in 1861 with Edward LEWIS as Head, and Elizabeth
as his 8yrs old daughter.
Anyway, you have given my enquiries a much needed boost, for which I am very grateful.
Thank you.
Alan.
_____________________________