Subject: Re: [MER] Robert HUMPHREYS of Llandrillo
Hi Elfed and Jeff,
I must admit to not having followed the intricacies of all your Humphreys
but having found your David Humphreys in my notes on Llangar BTs:
1783 Jan 10 Baptism Blaengwnodle David, son of Humphrey Cadwalader and
Jane his wife d.o 10.th
I thought I would look, as you suggest, for a possible brother Thomas
Humphreys in Llandrillo, but failed, except for another Thomas:
1784 Jul 18 Baptism Thomas son Evan Humphrey and Elizabeth his wife.
Interestingly, there was another:
1782 Sep 27/4? Burial Humphrey Cadwalader of Tyddin Powel.
The whole area was awash in Humphreys - even down to the vicars!
I was interested in Jeff's reference to Llandrillo Baptisms in 1820, to
compare with my notes from the Llandrillo BTs. My notes had only 8 baptisms
in 1820 - several of them partly illegible and none of them HUMPHREYS -
compared to 30 in 1821 and 16 in 1819. It looks like the 1820 BTs for
Llandrillo were very unreliable, perhaps because of illegibility. I presume
the Clwyd FHS transcript would have relied heavily on the PRs for 1820 and
it could be worth taking another look at them all.
I was also interested to compare Jeff's reference to Llandrillo 1811 to
my notes from the Llandrillo BTs:
1811 Nov? 27 Baptism Robert son of Thomas Humphreys of Blaen __? (fold in
paper) and Elizabeth his wife, born Nov? 21. J.Lloyd, vicar.
1811 May 10 Marriage David Humphreys and Anne Roberts were married by
banns. J.Lloyd, vicar.
1811 Feb 25 Marriage Thomas Humphreys and Elizabeth Roberts were married
by licence. J.Lloyd, vicar.
So Jeff's info - 27 Nov 1811 (born 21st) : Robert HUMPHREY [sic] son of
Thomas & Eliz'th of Blaen y Cwm - is most interesting because my ancestor's
family were in Blaen y Cwm about this time and we have also seen our
families appearing to share residences in Blaen Gwnnodl, Llangar.
Thomas Humphreys had Robert at Blaen y Cwm in 1811 between the two last
children of John Roberts in 1810 & 1812. (who was I believe, GGgrandfather
to Jeff Delves, Suffolk, & Dennis Roberts, Kent, and likely younger brother
to my GGGgrandmother Jane Roberts)
Perhaps it's another case of a younger family moving in to learn the
ropes from an older family who wants help and then later to move out?
Compare the following info from my notes of Llandrillo BTs:
1812 Jun 26 Baptism William child of John Roberts and Jane his wife.
J.Lloyd, vicar.
1810 May 16 Baptism John son of John Roberts and Jane his wife was born
May 12. J.Lloyd, vicar.
1806 Aug 2 Baptism Robert son of John Roberts and Jane his wife of Blain y
cwm, born July 30.
1804 Dec 12 Baptism Thomas son of John Roberts and Jane his wife of Blain
y Cwm, born December 8.
1802 Mar 31 Burial Thomas Toberts/Roberts? of Blaenycwm.
1796 Jan 22/27? Baptism Thomas son of Thomas Francis and Jane his wife of
Blain y Cwm was baptized January 27th 1796. (paper creased)
1795 Sep 5 Marriage by licence, Thomas FRANCIS of Pennant, bachelor,(age
26) & Jane ROBERTS of this parish (Llandrillo), spinster, (age 22);
witnesses - David ROBERTS & Anne ROBERTS. (from Jeff Delves -resident of
both Suffolk & Llandrillo) It is important to note that the Clwyd Family
History Society transcription contains more data than is given in the
Bishop's Transcripts.
1791 Oct 18 Burial Thomas Roberts of BlainyCwm.
1787 Nov 21 Baptism Elizabeth daughter of Thomas Roberts of Blaen-y Cwm
and Jane his wife. (Nov 24 according to Ann Watt - Clwyd FHS transcript)
1775 Nov 12 Baptism John Roberts (17 Nov and son of Thomas Roberts and
Jane of Blaen y Cwm according to Ann Watt - Clwyd FHS transcript) (Janice
Dale has this John in her Blaen y Cwm notes)
1772? Dec 22 Baptism Jane daughter of Thomas Roberts and Jane his wife.
(no mention of Blaen y Cwm but this and Jane the daughter of Thomas Ellis
are the only Janes baptized in 1771/72/73/74 in Llandrillo.) (Janice Dale
has this Jane in her Blaen y Cwm notes)
What a tangled web! How do you find proof of anything at this level?
Have you found any wills for any of the above families?
Ann Watt of Edinburgh was so extraordinarily kind to me when she told me
about finding Thomas Francis' will at the NLW.
When the Clwyd FHS transcriptions quote a child's name at baptism with a
surname, as shown in Jeff's quote for Robert HUMPHREY 1811, is that the way
they are shown in the original PRs? I don't ever recall seeing a BT done
that way.
all best wishes, Tony in White Rock, BC
-----------------------------------------------------------
From: "Elfed Owen" <eiandelowen(a)tiscali.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [MER] Robert HUMPHREYS of Llandrillo
Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 22:13:24 +0100
X-Mailing-List: <WLS-MERIONETHSHIRE-L(a)rootsweb.com> archive/latest/1987
Hello Jeff,
For some reason I did not receive the e-mail you sent to WLS Merionethshire
on 29 March 2004, but I have found it on the WLS Merionethshire Archives--
Many thanks for all the info.
It is interesting to note in the Llangar PR the following baptism--
9 April 1820. Richard s/o David Humphreys (definately my gt-gt grandfather)
and Elizabeth Roberts /farmer of Pen yGeulan, Llandrillo.
>From your Llandrillo Church Baptisms info it appears that Richard was
baptised in Llandrillo church as well as Llangar Church !! It is also a
coincidence that another ? David Humphreys was living with his wife Grace in
Pen y Geulan one month earlier.
I have digested all the information that you, Doreen and John have sent me
together with the information from William Humphreys' birth certificate and
have come to the reliable conclusion that Barbara Humphreys (who died in
1965) was a descendant of Thomas Humphreys, born about 1786, and his wife,
Elizabeth Roberts .
TH was living in Llanfawr at the time of his marriage but it is still
possible that he was a brother of my David Humphreys from Llangar born 1783.
DH' father was Humphrey Cadwalladr of Llangar.
TH does not appear in the Llangar PR but he may have been baptised in
Llandrillo.Do your Llandrillo records go back this far?
Many thanks for your help.
Regards,
Elfed .
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeff Delves" <jeff.delves(a)virgin.net>
To: <WLS-MERIONETHSHIRE-L(a)rootsweb.com>
Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 1:04 AM
Subject: [MER] Robert HUMPHREYS of Llandrillo
> Elfed,
>
> After sending my e-mail regarding RH a short while ago, I saw your message
>acknowledging info from Doreen & John, & noting that you believed that
>Robert HUMPHREYS of Llandrillo was the son of David & Elizabeth HUMPHREYS of
>Penygeulan. I'm not too sure of this .......
>
> 1) Llandrillo Church Baptisms 1813-1836 : [in passing, not sure if
relevant]
> 134. 19 Mar 1820 : Grace, daughter of David & Anne HUMPHREYS of Pengeulan
>[sic], farmer.
> 135. * April 1820 : Richard, son of David & Elizabeth HUMPHREYS. [no
>further info given]
>
> 2) Llandrillo Church Baptisms 1761-1812 :
> 27 Nov 1811 (born 21st) : Robert HUMPHREY [sic] son of Thomas & Eliz'th of
>Blaen y Cwm
> [This seems to link with Robert's marriage details in May 1849]
>
> 3) Llandrillo Church Marriages 1720-1825 :
> 25 Feb 1811 : Thomas HUMPHREYS [sic] bachelor of Llanfawr and Elizabeth
ROBERTS spinster of this parish, by Lic.
> [Links with 1811 baptism above?]
>
> Best wishes
>
> Jeff