These extracts and the translations get more fascinating with each
installment. I'm hooked!
The new installment clarifies the location of Trawscoed in Pennant Lliw,
the valley that runs northwest of Llanuwchllyn (Trawscoed O.S. reference
SH846326). Pennant Lliw was also the name of the township. <Castell> (
which was mentioned in an earlier installment) was also a township in
the parish of Llanuwchllyn. There was also reference earlier to <Refail>
which I suggested might have been located in the village of Parc as Rhyd
yr Efail, but might also refer to the township of <Gwernefail> in the
northeastern part of Llanycil parish.
J. H. Davies was a scholar of note in his time, so his reference to the
form of land tenure that existed at Trawscoed is interesting. He might
have been referring to Trawscoed as an example of the practise of
splitting farm units among members of the same family. Primogeniture?
Suggestions regarding translation:
<Hen wr siaradus dyddan smociwe mawr eithr carlwf gydai cibell ai boeryn!>
Hafina suggested <He was an interesting talkative old man and a heavy
smoker,,,,,,> leaving <eithr carlwf gydai cibell ai boeryn!> the
"except for" <eithr> to our imaginations. Could I suggest that
<cibell>
refers to his "pibell" or pipe and <boeryn> to a spitoon. Enough said.
<Mae im yn ddydderol meun cysydliad ar tir ai ddaliadaeth dyweda Fewyrth
Ifan' ebe hi i
shwart glanllyn (sir w w Wynn) adol rywdro n Trawsgoed- acgrwyfyn messwl
nadoedd dim then Cymronar y lle cyn hynny.>
Hafina suggested <One is in connection with land tenure - Uncle Ifan
said that the steward of the Glanllyn Estate (Sir W W Wynne) lived at
Trawsgoed>. To fill the gap I suggest <ac r'wyf yn meddwl nadoedd dim
ond Cymru ar y lle cyn hynny.> <and I think that only Welsh (people)
lived there beforehand>.
Blwyddyn Newydd Dda (Happy New Year)
Ken Richards
Hafina Coppack wrote:
Hello! This is the best I can do- some words I cannot make out
I'm
afraid.
"Trawsgoed was a remarkable place sheltering under the shadow of a
huge cliff in the hills above Penantlliw. A romantic and lonely place,
4 miles from the nearest village without a road leading to it. When I
first remember it there were numerous signs telling me that it once
had been the home of many families, some of the homes having been
converted into farm buildings and used by my uncle. As far as I can
tell it used to be the home of a large group of families. I heard my
mother and others saying that there were once 12 or more dwelling
places there. Mr J H Davies of Cwrt Mawr is of the opinion that this
place is the remains of an ancient form of land tenure. About the time
that my grandfather moved there from Dolbach there were 3 houses left,
all related to each other. Thus:
Pen Ucha (Upper end) Thomas Jones
Ty Canol (middle house) Griffith Jones
Pen Isa (lower end) Evan Jones
I don't know whether Griffith Jones was there when my mother first
moved to Trawsgoed with her parents. Evan Jones, who held some of the
land, lived for quite a long time after my mother went there. He was
an nteresting talkative old man and a heavy smoker,,,,,,. He had a a
store of family stories and she recited some of them to me that
afernoon at Tynybryn. One is in connection with land tenure - Uncle
Ifan said that the steward of the Glanllyn Estate (Sir W W Wynne)
lived at Trawsgoed ......... and that he argued that Trawsgoed was a
good place to live. A white cliff at the back and green meadows in
front - worth paying rent for! I wonder what was the significance of
this discussion. Was it the unfairness of the enclosures on a farm
which had been a fortress for numerous families down the ages. It
would be intresting to find the roots of the story."
The J H Davies Cwrt Mawr (which is near Aberystwyth) was Tom Ellis
MP's brother in law by the way. Hafina
----- Original Message ----- From: "Gwen Cunningham" <gwenny(a)snet.net>
To: <WLS-MERIONETHSHIRE-L(a)rootsweb.com>
Sent: Saturday, December 31, 2005 12:48 AM
Subject: [MER] more Welsh translating
> Hello Listers, especially Hafina,
> Following is another exerpt that looks promising.
> " Lle hynod ar amnyd yslyron ydoedd hen ffermdy y Trawsgoed. yn
> llechm o dan
> gysgrd Clagwryn anfertho graig yn ucheldir Penantlliw. Lle
> thamantrisag nnig
> pedair milldr osdewrth yfsentref agisaf a thyw lim o ffradd, fyned
> ato. Pan
> ei cofiaf gyntaf y oedd pob arnyddion ogyld y lle eifod mewaith wedi
> bod yn
> gartre i hefer o denlusedd thai or presuylfeydd wedi en hoi yn
> odeiladan ir
> ffenn fel ei delid gan fy euythr. Hyay gwelaf fi thaid ei frd eis
> lalwin yn
> gartre, lwyth lychan or im leuln . Clywais fy mam ac eraill yndwent
> yhryns
> unwaith ddenddeg nen fwy o dai a thenlivead ynddynt. Ac y mae Mr. J H
> Davies
> Cwrlmaior bob aniser a fam y rhaid ei fod yn uno weddillim hynaf yr hen
> gyfundrefn dirol gynerugas wcot ei gadel ynywlas.
>
> Tuar adey y symudoss fy rh.id yno a Ddolbach yroead ynodri thrnhe
> ynweddillar sefydliad a phob un yn pethyn y naitlir llaeliorth gwis. fel
> hyn.
> Pen ucha- Thomas Jones
> Ty Canol- Griffith Jones
> Pen Isa- Evan Jones
> Nis gwn aoedd Griffith Jones ynfynt panaeth fy mam n Trawsgoed gynlaf
> gydai
> thieni yroedd Evan Jones pa un a ddaliai ran or tir yn fyw am gryn amser
> wedi mynda fy mam n Trawsgoed. Hen wr siaradus dyddan smociwe mawr eithr
> carlwf gydai cibell ai boeryn! Yoend ganddo stor o straisn lenluaidd
> delygun
> cefais rai oi ddyrdediadan ganadi y prydnhaun hunnw yn thynybryn. Mae
> im yn
> ddydderol meun cysydliad ar tir ai ddaliadaeth dyweda Fewyrth Ifan'
> ebe hi i
> shwart glanllyn (sir w w Wynn) adol rywdro n Trawsgoed- acgrwyfyn messwl
> nadoedd dim then Cymronar y lle cyn hynny. Dadlenai y stward fod y
> Trawsgoed
> yn llebraf i fyw Clogwyn gwyn niol idso a gwenglosd las oi flaen hyny y
> doerd lleda i dalu rhrnt am dans. Os gwn: pa beth ocad y drafrdaeth
> hon! Ai
> y gurmawr odan yr enclisures itcl yn dodi afel o dir oead cyn hyny yn
> caebeis haioer dydd ei fwynhan gaer yr hen dylwyth o amryw ae wydydd
> drigai
> ynyTrawsgoed. Y mae yn debygol a dyddorol fnasai ceises dod o hydir
> slori.
>
> This bit mentions the farm Trawsgoed often which is where the Jones
> family
> was from.
> Thanking you in advance
> Gwen Cunningham
>
>
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