Correction: Nannau seems to be the place that Howell was associated with. It also seems
the Welsh sometimes used place names or nicknames to identify people with similar names,
and it seems too that there were a great many of them.
Jim & Sheila Latimer <jlatimer(a)yahoo.ca> wrote: As I understand it, the
patronymic system tracks the generations of sons and daughters. In the Welsh, it seems,
the sons were noted a name ap name ap name ap name, etc. (ap of course meaning "son
of")The daughters tracked the female line, as in name verch name verch name, etc.
(Verch means "daughter of"). The Spanish & Portugese, it seems, still use
this system, using something other than "ap", but in common usage they use the
given name plus the father's name as a family name.
Rowland Ellis, who was a well known Quaker from Merionethshire and who used a home, name
Bryn Mawr, built by his grandfather before moving to the USA is recorded in this way:
"Rowland Ellis (Rowland ap7 Ellis, Ellis ap6 Rees (sometimes shown as Price or
Prees), Rees Ap5 Rees, Rees Ap4 Lewis, Lewis Ap3 Sion, Sion Ap2 Gruffydd, Gruffydd Ap
Nannau1 Howell) was born 1650 in of Bryn Mawr, Daffrydan, Merionethshire, Wales, and died
Sep 1731 in Gwynned, Philadelphia, Pennsylvania". (Copied from the source. The
numbers after the ap representing generation number.) In another example, Rowland is shown
as Rowland ap Ellis ap Rees ap Rees ap Rees ap Lewis ap Sion ap Gruffydd ap Howell,
I hope this is correct and helps.
Jane wrote:
I am trying to determine when the patronymic versus a surname seems to apply in this
family. The baptisms take place in the mid 1700s. I've listed the parent's names
as shown in the baptism records. My questions are:
Do these shift back and forth between the patronymic and surname?
If so, how do I record these in a genealogy program?
Would the father be considered John ap Robert?
first two are daughters, 1741, 1742, parents are recorded: John Robert and wife Margaret.
Then two sons, 1744 and 1746: parents are John ROBERTS and wife, Marg't
Next two dau. and a son, (1748, '50, '52) - back to John Rob't and Marg't
1755: a dau: Jno ROBERTS and wife Marg't
The last three, 1 dau., 2 sons (1757, '59, '62) have Jno Robert and wife
Marg't
Will appreciate any ideas --
Jane
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