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Author: tishanne1
Surnames:
Classification: queries
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http://boards.rootsweb.com/localities.britisles.wales.mer.general/843.6.1...
Message Board Post:
The names are not necessarily wrong, this could be Welsh patronymics.
Titch
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Maureen
I was interested in your note as I too have WILLIAMS ancestors from the
Llanddwywe/Llanaber/Llanbedr area and am desperately trying to find a birth
record for my gt grandfather, Owen WILLIAMS born 1839/1842 in
Llanddwywe. On various censuses (the very large family is entirely missing
in 1881) he is listed as being born in Llanddwywe or Dyffryn and is buried
in Capel Horeg, Dyffryn. However, I can't find anything definitive earlier
than the 1871 census.
Unfortunately to complicate matters I have no idea who his mother was and
only that, according to his marriage certificates (x2) his father was
(sigh) yet another Owen WILLIAMS. Having checked the birth registrations
for 1839-42 (Dolgellau and Ffestiniog offices have been wonderful but
unable to help) I am wondering if his parents couldn't be bothered walking
down from the hills to register his birth or perhaps even to have him
baptised - is that likely??? The family seem to have been farmers with
Owen (Jr) ending up running a successful butcher's business in Barmouth.
I shall shortly be spending a few months in UK and would be grateful if
someone could suggest which Parish registers I should check for a baptism
(I'm aware Llanddwywe presents some difficulties) or where else I might look
for this elusive man!
Help please!
Lizzie
Canberra, Australia
EDWARDS, EVANS, LLOYD, MORRIS, RICHARDS, VINCENT, WILLIAMS
Barmouth, Llanaber, Llanbedr, Llanddwywe, Llanfair
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Author: garethllwyddafydd
Surnames:
Classification: queries
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http://boards.rootsweb.com/localities.britisles.wales.mer.general/843.7/m...
Message Board Post:
This is a previous entry from Grruffydd Rowlands who has done a lot of work on this family
I am finding some inconsistencies regarding the records of EVAN WILLIAMS Y Wyddor Trawsfynydd and I should be grateful if someone can throw any light on the problem.
Alan Llwyd states in Cofiant Hedd Wyn that Evan Williams was the son of Robert Williams and his wife Ann and implies that he was born on 1784 in Erwddwfr Trawsfynydd (or Wyddor as commonly known).
However, the grave inscription in St Madryn's cemetry states that he was buried on the 18th May 1854 aged 88 years i.e. he was born about 1766.He was interred with his first wife Margaret Roberts of Erwddwfr who was buried on the 26th October 1802 aged 28 years.
The marriage banns records indicate that he married Margaret Roberts on the 8th of Nov 1796 and subsequently he married Sarah Lewis on the 10th October 1803 following the death of Margaret Roberts in 1802.
The 1851 Census data shows that he was 85 years of age at that time and living with his son Morris Williams at Hendre Fawr Trawsfynydd. This confirms that he was born in 1766 as recorded on the gravestone. The census also records his birthplace as Llanfachreth Merioneth.
Sarah Lewis was interred in St Madryn cemetry on the 4th of May 1819 aged 42 years. Two infant children of Morris and Elizabeth Williams of Aber Trawsfynydd were interred in the same grave. It appears that they were living in Aber at this time as Ellinor Pugh, widow of Hugh Pugh Hendre Fawr was still in residence in Hendre Fawr at that time.
I have examined the exellent Bishop's transcriptions of Alwyn ap Huw for St Madryn's church Trawsfynydd and have only been able to find one possible reference of the baptism of Evan Williams in Trawsfynydd i.e that quoted by Alan Llwyd -Evan son of Robert William and Anne his wife Nov 14 1784 -but this is unlikely to be Evan Williams Y Wyddor as he would then be only 12 years old when he married his first wife.It may well be that the answer lies,therefore, in the parish of Llanfachreth.
The Trawsfynydd Bishop transactions are ,however, very interesting regarding Ann Lewis. It records the baptism of Ann the daughter of Lewis Jones and Susanna on the 28th of Nov 1777.Is it possible that this should be Ann verch Lewis? If this is correct Ann was the daughter of Lewis and Susanna Jones of Penybryn Trawsfynydd.They were interred in St Madryn's cemetry.Lewis jones was buried on the 25th June 1826 aged 86 years and Susanna on the 16th Dec 1827 aged 84 years. Their son John died 22nd Oct 1821 aged 45 years and is interred in the same grave but there is no indication to establish if he was called John Lewis i.e John ap Lewis or John Jones.
I would be very grateful for any clues as to where Evan Williams was born.
Regards
Gruff Rowlands.
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Author: felicity1964
Surnames:
Classification: queries
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http://boards.rootsweb.com/localities.britisles.wales.mer.general/843.6.1...
Message Board Post:
Thanks Gareth.
I have no idea where the names on my records came from so Ellis William as father to lewis William Evans may well be wrong. Not sure where Evan/Ellis' birth date of 1784 comes from either. I shall email my aunt who has did some research some years ago. I imagine the names and dates came from her but I will check at Ysgwrn when I am next there.
felicity
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Author: garethllwyddafydd
Surnames:
Classification: queries
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Message Board Post:
Translation of the Welsh you included goes something like
"In Yr Wyddor or Rwyddor vocal differention of Erw Ddwfr or possibly Ardd y Dwr.(garden of water) another form of the name in some records that Lewis Evans was born , he was baptised at home Yr Erwddwr. on July 15, 1810."
Another late realisation on my part regarding an earlier question of Lewis's baptism. The bishop Transcript for Trawsfynydd is on line so I looked it up the above date and got this. 1810 "July 15 Lewis son of Evan William (Ewyddor) and Sarah his wife (Formerly Sara Roberts)" The most complicated part of this is Sarah is given the surmane of Roberts as she is Lewis in other sources. There is a contention as well as to the parents of Sarah. I understand that the most likely is Lewis Jones Penybryn Trawsfynydd.
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Author: garethllwyddafydd
Surnames:
Classification: queries
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http://boards.rootsweb.com/localities.britisles.wales.mer.general/843.5/m...
Message Board Post:
Hello there Felicity
Thanks for that information. I see you have Ellis William as Lewis Evans father. Have you got a baptism date for Lewis. The fact that Lewis surname is Evans does suggest that his father first name could be Evan. However sometimes they took their grandfathers name. Sorry I can not help you with dates as they are not with me here.I hope to get a chance to look for them this weekend. With regards to William Griffith and Griffith William. William Griffith was the father of Evan Williams and Griffith Williams. His name is recorded as paying Tythe in Wyddor in 1776. Before that he lived in Abergeirw in the parish of Llanfachreth. The baptism of his children does not specify whether it was Abergeirw Bach or Aberigerw more (current housholds).
I have heard other version of who the father of Evan William was and look forward to a good discussion and verfication.
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Author: tishanne1
Surnames:
Classification: queries
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http://boards.rootsweb.com/localities.britisles.wales.mer.general/843.1.1...
Message Board Post:
>From the snippet you have given the writer gives all the different versions of the same name of the farmstead. This is where Lewis Evans was baptised on the 15th of July 1810. it was quite common for country folk to have their children baptised at home. I would say that you have the farm on your present day map.
Titch
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Author: felicity1964
Surnames: Evans
Classification: queries
Message Board URL:
http://boards.rootsweb.com/localities.britisles.wales.mer.general/843.3.1...
Message Board Post:
I don't seem to have an Evan William as Hedd Wyn's great grandfather and thus my great x4 grandfather. the family tree passed down to me goes like this
Me (felicity) sister to Shaun Ellis, Robert Llewllyn and Gerald Rowland. my Dad is Reginald Evan s/o Annie Evans b 1903 d 1934 d/o Evan Evans b 1853 and mary who came from Coed Cae Du Trawsfynydd b 1864.
Evan Evans had the following siblings:
Sarah b 1839 d 1841; Lewis Evan b 1843; Sarah b.1850 d 1854; Edmund b 1851 d 1857 Robert b 1858 and Morris b 1858 d 1864. Their father according to my records was Lewis William Evans b 1810 and married to Mary Humphries b 1815.
Lewis's parents were Ellis William b 1784 and Sarah Lewis d 1819. Ellis William's parents were Robert william and Ann but I have no dates for them.
Where does Evan Williams fit in and should I suppose that the family's original surname was Williams? if so does anyone know when it got dropped for Evans?
Also in your post is William Griffith who moved to Wyddor the same person as Griffith Williams? I'm confused. Might we have started at Ysgwrn moved to Wyddor and moved back to Ysgwrn at a later date?
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Author: garethllwyddafydd
Surnames:
Classification: queries
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http://boards.rootsweb.com/localities.britisles.wales.mer.general/843.4/m...
Message Board Post:
Just realised that I had not made it clear that Evan William was a son of William Griffith Wyddor.
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Author: garethllwyddafydd
Surnames:
Classification: queries
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http://boards.rootsweb.com/localities.britisles.wales.mer.general/843.3/m...
Message Board Post:
I do not have all the facts with me now. But I do remember that one of your forfathes William Griffith moved form Abergeirw in the Llanfachreth parish in the mid 1760s too y Wyddor. All the other names you mentioned Erwddwfr etc ar other versions of the same place. This Evan Williams is recorded on Ceiri Griffiths book on page 113. Griffith Williams who lived in Yr Ysgwrn in 1841 is his brother. There were at least 5 or 6 children most were born in Llanfachreth but two John and Rowland were born in Trawsfynydd after they moved to Wyddor. If I remember correctly Evan William was Hedd Wyn's great grandfather. I have the recod of the baptism of all the children of William Griffith and Jane Abergeirw/Wydddor the record of their marriage.
I will give you the details again
Gareth.
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Author: felicity1964
Surnames:
Classification: queries
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http://boards.rootsweb.com/localities.britisles.wales.mer.general/843.2.1...
Message Board Post:
Thanks for that. I see it is called Erw-ddwfr on my ordinance survey.
felicity
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Author: felicity1964
Surnames: Evans, Williams
Classification: queries
Message Board URL:
http://boards.rootsweb.com/localities.britisles.wales.mer.general/843.1.1...
Message Board Post:
This is the bit which is confusing me: A translation would be most welcome.
Yn Yr Wyddor, neu 'Rwyddor,llygriad llafar o Yr Erwddwfr neu Yr Erwddwr neu efallai Arwdd y Dwr, ffur arall ar yr enw a geir mewn rhai cofnodion, y ganed Lewis Evans, ac fe'i bedyddiwyd ar aelwyd Yr Erwddwr ar Orffenaf 15,1810.
I have found a farm called Erw-ddwfr on a present day ordinance survey so I'm going to guess that might be it and see what the census brings up for that.
I should point out that when I said my paternal grandmother was Annie Evans sister to Hedd Wyn, I should have said my paternal grandmother. Annie had four children Ellis David born 1927 died 1998, Gerald Robert born 1929, Reginald Evan born 1930 died 2002 (my Dad) and Marion known as Malo born 1932. Annie died on 07/03/34 aged 30 in Ty'n y Coed next to Ysgwrn where she was living with her husband Ifor Williams (born 12 July 1900)who came from Wrexham. When Annie died, Nain Ysgwrn took in the two eldest boys to help on the farm and sent Reg went to live with Mary, Annie's eldest sister who had moved to Hampshire and married Albert Bush. Malo was adopted by another of Annie's sisters namely Maggie who had married Tom Roberts and they lived in Wrexham.
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T Ceiri Griffith "Achau rhai..." (2003) Ewyddor (=Erwddwfr=Yrwyddor from the "Melville Richards Archive" online).
Chart 113(b)
Hedd Wyn
s/o Evan Evans
s/o Lewis Evans or Williams (1810-1893) - Ysgwrn and Ewyddor
s/o Evan Williams - Ewyddor - married in 1803 (Trawsfynydd) Sarah Lewis (1779-1819)
this Sarah Lewis d/o Lewis Edmund, Bodfudda, possibly s/o Edmund Jones, Ysgwrn from the line of Lloyd of Cwmbychan, Llanfair juxta Harlech (Cadwgan ap Bleddyn ap Cynfyn)
Ian
London
_________________________________________________________________
Who's friends with who and co-starred in what?
http://www.searchgamesbox.com/celebrityseparation.shtml
Hello Anita,
Although I live in South Wales, I too, have ancestors in Dyffryn Ardudwy.
In fact, I still have relatives living there. I think the area covers more
than just Llanenddwyn, but when I hear my relatives speak, it seems that it is
Llanenddwyn is the village they mean. But, saying that, I have interests in
Llanbedr Parish, Llanddwywye Parish, Llanfair Parish as well as Llanenddwyn.
My surnames of interest in that part of the worrld are Wynne, Roberts,
Williams, a marriage, and some patrynomics going back to a marriage in 1712,
Generally, I have found information at the National Library of Wales, and at
Penarllag in Dolgellau. It is ususally at Dolgellau that I have sent to for
the certificates. Oops, I just remembered that I have Pritchard and Pugh
surnames too. I have burials in Llanenddwyn Parish Church, Llanddwywe Parish
Church, Llanbedr Parish Church, and Horeb Calvanistic Methodist Chapelyard.
And I even found a burial down the road in the large burial ground as you go
towards Barmouth. Sorry, the names escapes me at present.
And on top of that, I have also forgotten to tell you about Llandanwg, the
Church in the sands. I have people there too. Well, they don't know they are
my people because they were alive in the 1700s.
My farms of interest are three at Cefn Cymera, which was a small estate. and
this part of the family helped to build the famous Chapel of Salem. Then
there is Meifod Isaf and Meifod Uchaf, Gornant Isaf. Ty Mawr, Tyddyn Bach.
All these I think are in Llanenddwyn. Except for one which lies just inside
Llanddwywe in the grounds of Corsygedol, old home of the Vaughans.
I hope I have helped and not hindered you with all this.
Regards,
Maureen Wynne.
South Wales.
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Author: christopher_d_jones
Surnames:
Classification: queries
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http://boards.rootsweb.com/localities.britisles.wales.mer.general/843.2/m...
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Try Google Maps here (http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?f=d&hl=en&geocode=&saddr=Wyddor, Trawsfynydd, Blaenau Ffestiniog, Gwynedd LL41, United Kingdom&daddr=Ysgwrn&mra=pe&mrcr=0&sll=52.889163,-3.902274&sspn=0.029726,0.072098&ie=UTF8&z=15). I think that you need to use Wyddor. If that is correct, it is only 1.7 miles apart.
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You will find this article useful - on Rootsweb
Archiver > WLS-MERIONETHSHIRE > 2002-11 > 1036573105
The name in Welsh is often spelled as Y Wyddor or even without the Y at all.
Regards
Beryl
----- Original Message -----
From: <gc-gateway(a)rootsweb.com>
To: <WLS-MERIONETHSHIRE-L(a)rootsweb.com>
Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2008 4:21 PM
Subject: Re: [MER] teulu Ysgwrn pre 1849
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> Classification: queries
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>
> Would you be able to type out the paragraph with these words in context so
> that it would be easier to help you with the translation please?
>
> Titch.
>
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Hi Barry
Yes they do sound familiar so I am sure they connect. I won't get a
chance to work on it for a little while as I am working on something
else but as soon as I do then I will get back to you
Thanks again
Doreen & John
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Author: tishanne1
Surnames:
Classification: queries
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Would you be able to type out the paragraph with these words in context so that it would be easier to help you with the translation please?
Titch.
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Author: felicity1964
Surnames: Evans
Classification: queries
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http://boards.rootsweb.com/localities.britisles.wales.mer.general/843/mb....
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Hello. Can anyone enlighten me as to where the Evans family of Ysgwrn lived before 1849? I know they moved to Ysgwrn before 1851 but weren't there on the 1941 census. My maternal grandmother was Annie second youngest sister to Ellis (Hedd Wyn) I was always told that they came from somewhere over behind penystryd chapel but no-one has ever been very precise about it. Looking through the archives there is a montion of Llanfachreth but i can't find any census material with the name Yr Wyddor, the name that my uncle Ellis Williams gave me years ago. I have the biography on my great uncle written by Alan Llwyd but my welsh is very basic. I think pg 35 is talking about where the family came from but mentions Yr Wyddor and then Y'Rwyddor and Yr Erwddwfr and also Yr Erwddwr. Multimap draws a blank on all these variations Can anyone put me straight please?
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Greetings Everyone - I tried to post to this list last night for attempt 2,
but somehow the message did not get through.
Does anyone know the LDS number for the 1891 census of the village of
Dyffryn Ardudwy? Is it under the village of Llanbedr or Llanenddwyn? Did the
village have a different name? Also, are there parish records for the
village? Where?
My family interests are my grandfather was born there:
Morris Ivor Griffith born March 15, 1906, Park-isa, Llanenddioyn, Dyffryn
Aududwy. He emigrated to Canada in 1926, settling first in manitoba and then
in Saskatchewan. He married Annie Leeson in 1934.
He had the following siblings;
Johnny born about 1895, Dyffryn; Maggie born about 1897, Dyffryn; Jane Mary
born about 1899, Penshydndendrasth; Will David born about 1901, Dyffryn;
Robin, May, Hugh died 1982, Griffith James born about 1911.
Grandpa's parents:
John Griffith born about 1877, Dyffryn, died about 1956, buried in Dyffryn
Lizzie (Elizabeth) Evans born either 1874 or 1876, likely Feb 9th, maybe in
Llanbedr, died August 1918 buried Dyffryn. Lizzie had at least one sister
named Jane "Shani" who never married and died in about 1975, age 89 in
Dyffryn.
John remarried a woman named Kate Owens.
John's parents:
Robert and Jane Griffith, buried in Dyffryn. There is at least one other son
named Robert in this family.
I am looking for more specific birth and death dates for my grandpa's
siblings and ancestors. I'm also looking for cause of death (a genetic
disease has popped up out of nowhere and I'd like to trace the history of
it).
Best Wishes,
Anita in snowy Ontario, Canada