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Llaithgwm was an outlying township of LLandderfel parish located entirely
within the Parish of Llanfor. The History of Merioneth (Vol 2), which deals
with the medieval period in the pre-1974 county, suggests the existence of a
adjunct chapel to the main church at Llandderfel in this area at one time.
A building identified as Llaithgwm is indicated on the OS Landranger
(1:50,000) map at SH 921410. This is about 2 to 3 miles due north of Y Bala.
Look for the B4501 north out of Y Bala on your map, go to Glan yr Afon and
then head about half a mile east to Llaithgwm.
Ken Richards
David
My N Wales base is in fact Llandrillo rather than Llandderfel, but I am familiar with some parts of the latter - which is a very large parish. I haven't been to Cistfaen, which from my map I see is about 1.5 miles NE of Llandderfel village, though I have walked up to Syrior (about half a mile SE) from Llandrillo. Maybe I'll have an opportunity to visit when I'm next in the area in a few weeks time. Very long steep hills, ideal for keeping fit!
On the 1881 census I did indeed find your great great grandfather, Evan WILLIAMS, alone at Cist Faen : widower, age 54 (ie born c1827), born Llandderfel. Couldn't find his son Edward at Penrhyndeudraeth - when was he born? In the 1891 census at Gistfaen are Evan F EVANS (33, Ag Lab, b Llanuwchllyn) with wife & son - no sign of Evan WILLIAMS.
I have the Clwyd FHS transcriptions of the Llandderfel Parish Records, volumes 3-5, covering c1760-1837. Couldn't find any baptism for Evan WILLIAMS; perhaps he would be among the nonconformist baptisms. No reference to Cistfaen in the early 1800s from what I could see.
Best wishes
Jeff Delves
- now back in Suffolk.
This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list.
Surnames: Price
Classification: Query
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Message Board Post:
Bethania Terrace and Tan y Manod Terrace (note correct spellings) are within 100-200 yards of each other.
There are about 35 miles (including a mountain) between Betws y Coed and Dolgellau. Blaenau Ffestiniog is in the centre in terms of journey time, about 22 miles from Dolgellau and 13 from Betws, and was a town of great population growth during this time, attracting workers to the quarries from afar. They might therefore have met in Blaenau Ffestiniog.
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My grandfather, Thomas Price according to the 1871 census was born in 1863 at Bethauie Terrace, FFestiniog. In the 1881 census he had moved to Tan Y Manof Terrace. I was wondering the distance between these two.
In the 1881/1871 census his father, Rice Price is listed as being born in Dolgellau, Dolgeley and his mother, Mary Hughes is listed as being born in Bettws Y Coed, Caernarvonshire. Are these two places close together and any where near the place where my grandfather (above) was born.
I would love to make a trip from Virginia to Wales and visit these places.
Thank you for any informatiion you have the time to supply.
Mary Price Wright
Jeff
I noticed a recent posting (on Llaithgwm) where you noted that you were
partly a resident of Llandderfel. I have found that my great grandfather,
Edward Williams came from there and I think I have found his father, Evan,
in the 1881 census at the farm Cistfaen, above Llandderfel. He seems to have
been living alone, aged about 50, children all gone (some to America, by
family records) and wife dead. Son Edward had gone to Penrhyndeudraeth to
work in the slate quarries.
I was in Wales for the first time in thirty years in January 2003----far too
briefly----but did manage at least to drive through Llandderfel and went up
towards Cistfaen and saw the place in the distance (after which the road
became too muddy).
I can't help but ask if you know anything of the place. Bit cheeky, I know
but one can't help trying!
Pob hwyl
David Rowlands
Canberra
Hullo List
I have just received my GM's Birth Certificate which states she was born at
Edmund Street, Ffestiniog in 1874.
I have tried OLD MAPS and Street Maps and cannot locate the address.
Can SKS assist with its location.
Thankyou
John
Esperance, Western Australia
Member Esp. FHS 20055
THOMAS, Glamorgan, Monmouth, Western Australia
LEWIS, Glamorgan
ROBERTS, Anglesey, Caernarfon, Merionith, Glamorgan
JONES, Glamorgan, Carmarthen
BISHOP, Suffolk, South Australia Western Australia
MORTIMER, New South Wales, Western Australia
DOUGLAS, South Australia, Scotland
Trevor,
Many thanks. Thankfully Roderick is not that common a first
name, so this must be the right one.
Best regards, Gordon
---- Original message ----
>Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 02:21:01 +0000
>From: "trevor.james" <trevor.james(a)virgin.net>
>Subject: Re: [MER] Roderick Hughes ?
>To: WLS-MERIONETHSHIRE-L(a)rootsweb.com
>
>
>
>Gordon Hughes wrote:
>>
>> I'm trying to trace more information about my grandfather,
>> born Roderick Hughes, in 1877. I have found only one such
>> person in the 1901 census who fits the right profile, but
at
>> that time he was 24 and lodging with a family Evans in
>> Merioneth, and working as a railway porter. I believe he
may
>> have been born in or near Llangollen, Denbighshire, so I
>> apologise if this is an inappropriate request for the
>> Merioneth distribution list.
>>
>> Thank you,
>
>
>Dear Gordon,
>
>In the 1881 census (Wales), this was the only Rod* HUGHES,
born 1877 +/-
>2 years:
>
> Dwelling: 6 Berwyn St
> Census Place: (Llangollen) Bache, Denbigh, Wales
> Source: FHL Film 1342331 PRO Ref RG11 Piece
5541 Folio 49
>Page 50
> Marr Age Sex Birthplace
>Evan HUGHES M 34 M Glyn, Denbigh, Wales
> Rel: Head
> Occ: Weaver Woollen
>Elizabeth HUGHES M 35 F Corwen,
Merioneth, Wales
> Rel: Wife
>Agnes HUGHES 9 F Llangollen, Denbigh,
Wales
> Rel: Daur
>Mary HUGHES 8 F Llangollen, Denbigh,
Wales
> Rel: Daur
>Price HUGHES 6 M Llangollen, Denbigh,
Wales
> Rel: Son
>Roderick HUGHES 4 M Llangollen,
Denbigh, Wales **
> Rel: Son
>Eliza E. HUGHES 2 F Llangollen,
Denbigh, Wales
> Rel: Daur
>Ann HUGHES 10 m F Llangollen, Denbigh,
Wales
> Rel: Daur
>
>Hope this helps,
>Trevor (York,UK)
>
>
>
>==== WLS-MERIONETHSHIRE Mailing List ====
>MERIONETH LINKS
>Trawsfynydd web site
>http://www.trawsnewid.btinternet.co.uk/
>
>==============================
>Gain access to over two billion names including the new
Immigration
>Collection with an Ancestry.com free trial. Click to learn
more.
>http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?
targetid=4930&sourceid=1237
>
This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list.
Classification: Query
Message Board URL:
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Message Board Post:
I am updating your county pages http://users.rootsweb.com/~wlsmer/index.html
please send me URL to any MERIONETHSHIRE
RELATED PAGES you know or have created
We have unlimited web space and can share old photographs, scans of family bibles and so on
I started on an FAQ about libraries and archives in Wales too
Hugh W
In a message dated 17/02/2004 06:50:15 GMT Standard Time,
afrancis(a)mail.pacificcoast.net writes:
> My wife's two grandfathers, William Charles (1875-1937) and William John
> Jones (1872-1949) were Methodist local preachers in and around Swansea.
> Are these the sort of people described in the 'Hanes Methodistiaeth'?
> That would be good to know about.
>
The particular volumes being discussed in this thread have the full title
"Hanes Methodistiaeth Gorllewin Meirionnydd" The History of Methodism in Western
Merioneth, so they will not include details of people who ministered in the
Swansea area.
Similar volumes would probably be availiable for the area in which your
wife's grandfather's served. The local history section of Swansea library should be
able to help, they can be contacted by e-mail on:
swansea.libraries(a)swansea.gov.uk
all the best
Alwyn
Gordon Hughes wrote:
>
> I'm trying to trace more information about my grandfather,
> born Roderick Hughes, in 1877. I have found only one such
> person in the 1901 census who fits the right profile, but at
> that time he was 24 and lodging with a family Evans in
> Merioneth, and working as a railway porter. I believe he may
> have been born in or near Llangollen, Denbighshire, so I
> apologise if this is an inappropriate request for the
> Merioneth distribution list.
>
> Thank you,
Dear Gordon,
In the 1881 census (Wales), this was the only Rod* HUGHES, born 1877 +/-
2 years:
Dwelling: 6 Berwyn St
Census Place: (Llangollen) Bache, Denbigh, Wales
Source: FHL Film 1342331 PRO Ref RG11 Piece 5541 Folio 49
Page 50
Marr Age Sex Birthplace
Evan HUGHES M 34 M Glyn, Denbigh, Wales
Rel: Head
Occ: Weaver Woollen
Elizabeth HUGHES M 35 F Corwen, Merioneth, Wales
Rel: Wife
Agnes HUGHES 9 F Llangollen, Denbigh, Wales
Rel: Daur
Mary HUGHES 8 F Llangollen, Denbigh, Wales
Rel: Daur
Price HUGHES 6 M Llangollen, Denbigh, Wales
Rel: Son
Roderick HUGHES 4 M Llangollen, Denbigh, Wales **
Rel: Son
Eliza E. HUGHES 2 F Llangollen, Denbigh, Wales
Rel: Daur
Ann HUGHES 10 m F Llangollen, Denbigh, Wales
Rel: Daur
Hope this helps,
Trevor (York,UK)
I'm trying to trace more information about my grandfather,
born Roderick Hughes, in 1877. I have found only one such
person in the 1901 census who fits the right profile, but at
that time he was 24 and lodging with a family Evans in
Merioneth, and working as a railway porter. I believe he may
have been born in or near Llangollen, Denbighshire, so I
apologise if this is an inappropriate request for the
Merioneth distribution list.
Thank you, Gordon Hughes
Subject: Re: [MER] Translation of Hanes Methodistiaeth
Hi Alwyn,
My wife's two grandfathers, William Charles (1875-1937) and William John
Jones (1872-1949) were Methodist local preachers in and around Swansea.
Are these the sort of people described in the 'Hanes Methodistiaeth'?
That would be good to know about.
Are they available from local libraries in Wales?
thank you for the info.
cheers, Tony
------------------------------------------------------------
>From: AlwynapHuw(a)aol.com
>Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 20:22:37 EST
>Subject: Re: [MER] Translation of Hanes Methodistiaeth - Gorllewin Meirionydd
>X-Mailing-List: <WLS-MERIONETHSHIRE-L(a)rootsweb.com> archive/latest/1845
>Hanes Methodistiaeth is an invaluable resource, for the very few family and
>local historians who can benefit from its contents, in this it is similar to
>hundreds of other books outlining the history of religion and the
>biography of
>noted preachers which were published in Welsh in the 1800's and early 1900's.
>
>Many of these books contain details about very ordinary individuals who
>influenced the religious life in their communities and/or were an
>influence for
>good or evil on the lives of the remembered preachers, which would be of
>immense interest to family and local historians.
>
>Some of the "early life" chapters in the biographies give a particularly
>interesting insight into the traditions and culture of Wales which influenced
>the subject before he "saw the light" which, again, could be of immense
>interest to the social, local and family historian.
Llaithgwm appears as a farmhouse on Ordnance Survey map "Outdoor Leisure 18" (Harlech, Porthmadog & Bala, 2.5 inches to the mile) at grid reference 922411, about 3 miles N of Bala, 1.5 miles NE of Frongoch, & c0.75 mile E of road B4501 from Frongoch to Cerrigydrudion.
The Welsh-language "Atlas Meirionnydd" (1975) has an article on Y Crynwyr (The Quakers) on pp 94-95, with useful maps of the Dolgellau & Bala areas showing Quakers' homes, including Llaethgwm (sic) and Ciltalgarth. A section of the text, in translation, reads ... "When Pennsylvania was handed over to William PENN, the Welsh Quakers bought 40,000 acres there. The first to emigrate from Wales were the company of Dr Edward JONES of Bala (in 1682), among them Hugh ROBERTS, Ciltalgarth, who became a famous preacher with the Society of Friends. His friend John ap THOMAS of Llaethgwm was unable to go because of illness." At the back of the Atlas is a useful section titled Gwyr Meirionnydd (The People of Meirionnydd). The entry for Cwmtirmynach reads - "John ap THOMAS, Llaethgwm (died 1683), famous Quaker. The last person to be buried at the Quaker Cemetery at Hafodfadog. His family went to Pennsylvania." The entries for Frongoch include - "Cadwaladr EVANS, Frongoch (1664-!
1745), Quaker, great-grandfather of Abraham LINCOLN. Huw ROBERTS, Ciltalgarth (1644-1702), Quaker."
One of our local farmers here in Llandrillo (c7 miles E of Bala) was in fact brought up at Llaithgwm (though, I believe, born a few miles further north in Cwmpennaner). He was able to tell me that the Quaker cemetery at Hafodfadog is now "under the waves" - a large section of the Tryweryn valley was flooded (1960s?) to form the Llyn Celyn reservoir to provide water for Liverpool. The flooding was highly controversial at the time, and is still the source of much bitterness locally. Many exhumations of more recent graves to Llanycil churchyard near Bala. Suggest you internet-search for Hafodfadog/Hafod Fadog, & indeed for Llaithgwm/Llaethgwm.
By chance during the last few days I was looking through some old copies of "Llen y Llannau", an annual publication giving the prize-winning entries for literature in the annual Eisteddfodau in the villages of Llanfachreth, Llanuwchllyn, Llangwm & Llandderfel. One of the winners for the 1988 Llanuwchllyn Eisteddfod (pp44-46, by Ifor OWEN of Llanuwchllyn) is a poem (in Welsh) titled "Gadael Tir - Ymson Katherine, gweddw y Crynwr John ap THOMAS, Llaithgwm, Penllyn" ("Leaving Land - the soliloquy of Katherine, widow of the Quaker John ap THOMAS of Llaithgwm, Penllyn"). This is a very moving poem, referring to the very real threat of death at the stake or gallows that faced Quakers for their perceived treason in refusing an oath of allegiance to the king. It also refers to crossing the Atlantic, leaving her John behind in the poor earth of Hafod Fadog's 'garden', and losing at least one child on the voyage. A strange coincidence that I should read it at this time.
In Bala last Saturday I was advised that a useful source of information might be the permanent exhibition on Welsh Quakers at the Tourist Information Office at Dolgellau. I'm afraid that I shan't be going that way for a while.
Note that Llaithgwm is some 5 miles as the crow flies from Llandderfel (a large parish in terms of area) - by road several miles further. Quite a journey in the 1600s I imagine. The church at the neighbouring parish of Llanfor would be passed on the way!
Best wishes
Jeff Delves (part-time Llandrillo, part-time Suffolk)
In a message dated 16/02/2004 21:39:07 GMT Standard Time,
kwgavin(a)worldnet.att.net writes:
> Does anyone on this list know if the above books or parts of them have
> been translated from Welsh to English? I have had specific names (Owen
> David and David Owen) translated, but would be interested especially in
> Bontddu and Dyffryn areas.
>
> Thanks very much.
>
> Kay W. Gavin
The short answer is no.
As all three volumes are quite wordy, it would be a massive undertaking to
translate them, for what would be a limited readership, so the chances of
anybody providing a translation is pretty unlikely.
Hanes Methodistiaeth is an invaluable resource, for the very few family and
local historians who can benefit from its contents, in this it is similar to
hundreds of other books outlining the history of religion and the biography of
noted preachers which were published in Welsh in the 1800's and early 1900's.
Many of these books contain details about very ordinary individuals who
influenced the religious life in their communities and/or were an influence for
good or evil on the lives of the remembered preachers, which would be of immense
interest to family and local historians.
Some of the "early life" chapters in the biographies give a particularly
interesting insight into the traditions and culture of Wales which influenced the
subject before he "saw the light" which, again, could be of immense interest
to the social, local and family historian.
Unfortunately the interesting bits in these volumes are often outweighed by
rather tedious chapters which would not even be of interest to the modern
person with a deep interest in Welsh religion, because of this the treasures which
they contain are lost to Welsh readers as well as to the non-Welsh reader.
It would not be a huge task to OCR these books and put them on the internet,
when time allows Hanes Methodistiaeth is one which I intend to do that with.
The internet is an ideal place for republishing these volumes, because with the
aid of a good search engine one can find the relevant passages and discard
the boring ones!
What is needed to make OCRing old Welsh books useful to all, wthout the
labour of translation, is a good on-line translation facility. The technology
exists, but unfortunately the "corpus" of words terms and phrases to back up the
technology is very lacking.
The Welsh Language Board, is the government agency responsible for providing
acess to the Welsh language. E-mail:
ymholiadau(a)bwrdd-yr-iaith.org.uk
Canolfan Bedwyr at Bangor University is the sponsored provider for creating a
bilingual technology for Wales. E-mail:
cbs602(a)bangor.ac.uk
Internet user who think that creating a good quality web-page translation
service would be a good idea might like to contact either or both organisations
in order to lobby them.
All the best
Alwyn
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Rootsweb kindly provides two free forums for the family historian to contact others with a research interest in the county of Merioneth
The Merionethshire General Message Board, is a web site on which messages can be posted and can be accessed at this URL:
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The WLS-MERIONETHSHIRE mailing list is a an e-mail exchange where genealogists can send an e-mail message to a central address which is then distributed to other registered list members who have an interest in the same locality.
Messages posted to the Merionethshire message board are "gatewayed" to the WLS-MERIONETHSHIRE mailing list, i.e. board messages are sent as an e-mail to everybody who is subscribed to the list. Unfortunately replies to the list sent in response to "gatewayed" Message Board postings are not posted on the Message Board.
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All the best
Alwyn
WLS-MERIONETHSHIRE list administrator
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Hen air Cymraeg sy'n golygu "Cysgu'n dawel" yw "Huno".
Gan bod Cristionogion yn credu eu bod yn cysgu yn y bedd hyd iddyn't cael eu deffro i fywyd tragwyddol gyda'r Iesu, mae Hunodd yn air foes am "farwodd"
Ystyr "yr hwn a hunodd Tachwedd 8" yw bod William Pugh wedi marw ar Dachwedd 8ed.
Pob hwyl
Alwyn
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beth mae yn yn feddwl? yr hwn a hunodd William Pugh diolch yn fawr iawn am eich help rhian
Does anyone on this list know if the above books or parts of them have
been translated from Welsh to English? I have had specific names (Owen
David and David Owen) translated, but would be interested especially in
Bontddu and Dyffryn areas.
Thanks very much.
Kay W. Gavin