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Thanks for info John
I was aware of Tynllechwedd being in the modern map (i visited it!) - but I
am curious as to why it wouldnt be in a older map when it definitely existed?
Thank you for your help though!
Regards
Nic
Thank you all for translating the inscription for me - i was hoping that
something would reveal itself about Emma - for the time being i will put her
down as a sister with a question mark.
Thanks for your help
Nic
I think the missing word is a mis-transcription of the original which should
be
Coffadwriaeth
which is just another word for ' in memory'
Rhian
----- Original Message -----
From: wena byrne <alwena_byrne(a)ntlworld.com>
To: <WLS-MERIONETHSHIRE-L(a)rootsweb.com>
Sent: Saturday, May 17, 2003 8:33 PM
Subject: Re: [MER] Davies & Edwards, Derwen
> Hi
>
> I may help with most of the translation as follows:-
>
> In Memory ???????
> of John Davies of Wenalltfawr
> (previously of Gwermi)
> Who died June 22
> 1855 at 56 years old
> Also Susannah
> Daughter of Henry and Jane Davies
> who died 24th April 1897
> at 37 years old
> Also Ruth C Davies
> who died June 19th 1904
> at 50 years old
> Also Emma Davies
> who died June 31st 1906
> at 56 years old.
>
> I don't recognise the word after the "In Memory" (Coffa) - otherwise I'm
> confident of the rest of the translation.
>
> Hope this helps.
>
> All the best
> Alwena
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <Llandaffcs(a)aol.com>
> To: <WLS-MERIONETHSHIRE-L(a)rootsweb.com>
> Sent: Saturday, May 17, 2003 7:21 PM
> Subject: [MER] Davies & Edwards, Derwen
>
>
> > Hi
> > A) I recently spent the day wandering the graveyards of 'my roots' and
> found
> > my gggg grandparents grave (Ann and Edward Edwards of Llwyn-y-brain,
> Derwen)
> > as well as my ggggg grandparents (Robert and Elizabeth Davies of Tucha,
> > Derwen) - i have inscriptions if anyone is interested.
> >
> > B) Also at Derwen was the following which matches my family, if John is
> the
> > Uncle of the females, however i have no Emma. Could someone please
> translate
> > the following so that i may make more sense of the family connection?
(i'm
> ok
> > with the dates and ages) - Thank you (Nic - llandaffcs(a)aol.com)
> > Coffa Dwrlaeth
> > Am John Davies o'r Wenalltfawr
> > (gynt o'r gwermi)
> > Bu farw mehefin 22
> > 1855 56 oed
> > Hefyd am sussanah
> > merch henry a jane davies
> > yr hon a fu farw ebril 24 1897
> > yn 37 oed
> > hefyd ruth c davies
> > a fu farw meh 19 1904
> > yn 50 oed
> > hefyd am emma davies
> > a fu farw mehefin 31 1906
> > yn 56 oed
> >
> >
> > ==== WLS-MERIONETHSHIRE Mailing List ====
> > MERIONETH LINKS
> > Gwynedd FHS
> > <http://www.gwynedd.fsbusiness.co.uk/>
> >
> > ==============================
> > To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy
records,
> go to:
> > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237
> >
>
>
> ==== WLS-MERIONETHSHIRE Mailing List ====
> MERIONETH LINKS
> Merioneth look-up exchange
> <http://freespace.virgin.net/the.mill/merlkup.htm>
>
> ==============================
> To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy records,
go to:
> http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237
>
In a message dated 17/05/2003 21:24:21 GMT Daylight Time,
mnjbuckley(a)fonant.co.uk writes:
> Purification of BVM is 2nd February.
>
>
You are, of course, quite right. Purification according to the OT laws is 40
days after birth not seven, that will teach me to check the sources first
before answering off the top of my head :-)
All the best
Alwyn
In a message dated 17/05/2003 20:16:33 GMT Daylight Time,
cjw283(a)cjw283.fsnet.co.uk writes:
>
> Can anyone tell me what day of the year is:
>
> 'The purification of the blessed Mary'
>
The first Sunday after Christmas, more often knows as Candlemas day in the
Anglican world
all the best
Alwyn
In a message dated 17/05/2003 19:22:05 GMT Daylight Time, Llandaffcs(a)aol.com
writes:
> Coffa Dwrlaeth
> Am John Davies o'r Wenalltfawr
> (gynt o'r gwermi)
> Bu farw mehefin 22
> 1855 56 oed
> Hefyd am sussanah
> merch henry a jane davies
> yr hon a fu farw ebril 24 1897
> yn 37 oed
> hefyd ruth c davies
> a fu farw meh 19 1904
> yn 50 oed
> hefyd am emma davies
> a fu farw mehefin 31 1906
> yn 56 oed
>
In memory of John Davies of Wenalltfawr (formerly of gwermi)
Who died July 22 1855 aged 56
Also of Sussanah daughter of Henry and Jane Davies
Who died April 24 1897 aged 37
Also Ruth C Davies who died June 1904 Aged 50
Also of Emma Davies who died June 31 1906 aged 56
HI
I have a marriage cert for Griffith Davies to Mary Hughes living at Tynewydd,
Corwen Parish, Llechweddygaer. Griffith's father was Griffith Davies, and
Mary's was John Hughes (both were farmers). The marriage was at Llanfihangel
GM in the county of Merioneth, in the presence of Edward Jones and Elizabeth
Hughes.
I know nothing of these parents or witnesses, nor can i find Llechweddygaer -
i would be grateful of any info on these brick walls. (Nic -
llandaffcs(a)aol.com)
Hi
A) I recently spent the day wandering the graveyards of 'my roots' and found
my gggg grandparents grave (Ann and Edward Edwards of Llwyn-y-brain, Derwen)
as well as my ggggg grandparents (Robert and Elizabeth Davies of Tucha,
Derwen) - i have inscriptions if anyone is interested.
B) Also at Derwen was the following which matches my family, if John is the
Uncle of the females, however i have no Emma. Could someone please translate
the following so that i may make more sense of the family connection? (i'm ok
with the dates and ages) - Thank you (Nic - llandaffcs(a)aol.com)
Coffa Dwrlaeth
Am John Davies o'r Wenalltfawr
(gynt o'r gwermi)
Bu farw mehefin 22
1855 56 oed
Hefyd am sussanah
merch henry a jane davies
yr hon a fu farw ebril 24 1897
yn 37 oed
hefyd ruth c davies
a fu farw meh 19 1904
yn 50 oed
hefyd am emma davies
a fu farw mehefin 31 1906
yn 56 oed
Hi all,
A) I recently purchased a 5 page booklet listing the landowners of Merioneth
in 1873 in the hope that i would find the many of my family as they were
farmers. Alas, i have had no joy, so i guess they rented? If any one wants
me to look for a name in the list please ask - it states name, town of
residence, acerage, and approx rent received. Also could anyone tell me how
i would go about finding out who my ancestors would have rented their farms
from?
B) Also bought a 1903 map of part of the merioneth area covering Gwyddelwern
etc. A farm that is important in my history was called Tynllechwedd, but it
does not show on the map - any ideas why? If anyone wants me to look up a
location on the map, please ask
Thanks, Nic (llandaffcs(a)aol.com)
Subject: Re: [MER] Roberts famliy
Hi David,
I looked through my notes of Llandrillo BTs for Miriam and could not see
anyone nearer than 1813 but I found that neighbouring Llangar had a special
on Miriams including:
1827 Mar 11 Baptism #407 March 11.th Sarah Miriam daughter of Thomas
Roberts and Grace Humphreys of Tan y Fedw parish of Gwyddelwern shoemaker
John Jenkins curate of Gwyddelwern
Cheers, Tony
------------------------------------------------------
>From: "Doreen Jones" <dd.jones(a)sympatico.ca>
>Subject: Re: [MER] Roberts famliy
>Date: Fri, 16 May 2003 18:12:27 -0400
>X-Mailing-List: <WLS-MERIONETHSHIRE-L(a)rootsweb.com> archive/latest/1102
>Hi David
>John took a look for you on the Census and found these. Hope they help.
>Doreen & John
>Hamilton, Canada.
>
>Llandderfel 1861
>13
>No. 13 Church Street
>David ROBERTS, Head, M, 27, Tailor, Llanfawr, Mer
>Miriam ROBERTS, Wife, M, 34, ---, Llandrillo, Mer
>Robert ROBERTS, Son, -, 4, Scholar, Llandrillo, Mer
>Thomas ROBERTS, Son, -, 2, ---, Llandderfel, Mer
>Margaret Sydney ROBERTS, Daughter, -, 8 mos, ---, Llandderfel, Mer
>
>Llandderfel 1871
>107
>13 Church Street
>David ROBERTS, Head, M, 35, Tailor, Llanfor, Mer
>Miriam ROBERTS, Wife, M, 44, ---, Llandrillo, Mer
>Robert ROBERTS, Son, -, 14, Tailor, Llandderfel, Mer
>Thomas ROBERTS, Son, -, 12, Scholar, Llandderfel, Mer
>Margaret ROBERTS, Daughter, -, 10, Scholar, Llandderfel, Mer
>Goronwy ROBERTS, Son, -, 8, Scholar, Llandderfel, Mer.
Hi, I am looking for details from the 1861 and 1871 census. My g. g. father David Roberts was born Rhiwlas, Llanfair, Bala, May 1831. I have found the family in the 1841 census:
Robert Roberts 36 yrs Cowman
Margaret Roberts 33 yrs
David 9 yrs
Elizabeth 7 yrs
Joseph 5 yrs
Robert 2 yrs
I understand there were eventually 11 children in the family and that they remained in the Llanfor/Llanfair area. I have details on David after his marriage to Miriam Griffith from Llandrillo at Llandderfel in 1855. Any information would be welcome.
David Roberts
Hi Lesley
John found these for you in Llandderfel in 1841. (note - ages rounded
in 1841 census)
Llandderfel (Doldrewyn)
Maesod ?
John EVANS, 25, Agricultural Labourer, Yes
Ann EVANS, 25, ---, Yes
Ann EVANS, 7, ---, Yes
John EVANS, 6, ---, Yes
Robert EVANS, 3, ---, Yes
Cathrin EVANS, 2, ---, Yes
Elizabeth EVANS?, 6 mos, ---, Yes
That's a lot of kids for someone who is aged 25 to 29.
John & Doreen
Hamilton, Canada.
Hi all,
If anyone has access to the 1841 census for Llandderfel could you do a lookup for me?
Anne Evans aged approx 6/7. Possibly living at Hafod Uchel. Head of household probably a John Evans (farmer por husbandman).
Any census details gratefully rec'd. I can't make it to Dolllgellau R.O. for quite some time!
Thanks, Lesley
Diolch, Tony
What you say makes perfect sense staring at a modern map.
Hwyl
David
Canberra
> Subject: [MER] Cynwyd-Llandderfel-Llandrillo place names
> Hi David,
> I think farm/house 'Colomendy' is at about SJ056402.
> The historic map shows 'Henfaes-uchaf' east of'Colomendy' (I think, really
> E-N-E, because of the orientation of the old map) further along a lane
> running through 'Pen-y-felin-fawr', which is at SJ063404/402 (two
> buildings, I'm not sure which) I suspect 'Henfaes-uchaf' is the one at
> SJ063402.
> South of 'Henfaes-uchaf' on the historic map (really E-S-E) is the name
> 'Hafotty-Berwyn' at the edge of moorland, without a visible building, which
> may be off the edge of map. The nearest access lane to it is through
> 'Talwrn-uchaf', which I think is at about SJ0061401 and curls up to
> moorland.
> Just south of 'Colomendy' and west of 'Talwrn-uchaf' (W-S-W really) is the
> farm 'Henfaes', probably at about SJ056400.
> I can not see a 'Hafotty Cynwyd' on the old maps but this doesn't mean it
> isn't there - my eyes aren't too good.
> If I assume that 'Hafotty' is similar to 'Hafod', meaning 'summer
> dwelling', you might be interested in the location of 'Hafod-bleiddyn' on
> the northern edge of Cynwyd, just across the B4401 from 'Ty'n y gottel
> cottages', next door to Sion (C.M.) Chapel and perhaps 100 yards north of
> St.John's P. Church. 'Hafod-bleiddyn' is at about SJ058413. It might have
> been your 'Votty-Cynwyd'.
> I think 'Havod-y-calch', across the river from 'All Saints' Llangar Parish
> church would probably be much too far from Cynwyd and in Llangar parish.
> Does anyone know if the farm just south of 'All Saints', called 'Stamp',
> had anything to do with the post office mail? -just curious.
> Cheers, Tony
> PS. I'm delighted to return this answer to you before you sent it at the
> time stated below!!
>
> -----------------------------------------------
>
>> Subject: [MER] Cynwyd-Llandderfel-Llandrillo place names
>> Date: Thu, 08 May 2003 22:22:39 +1000
>> From: David Rowlands <drowlan1(a)bigpond.net.au>
>> X-Mailing-List: <WLS-MERIONETHSHIRE-L(a)rootsweb.com> archive/latest/1091
>> Annwyl Pawb
>> While the list is hot on the subject of locations and place-names, does
>> anyone know where Hafotty Cynwyd and Henfaes farm are (or were)?
>>
>> I found a written record that said my mother's Taid (Edward Williams c 1852
>> - 6 Ebrill 1922, married Catherine Davies, Penlan Terrace, circa 1876) from
>> Penrhyndeudraeth had originally come from the Llandderfel-Cynwyd area. The
>> written record I had said that his father, Evan Williams, was from 'Geest
>> Fan', which I suspect is 'Cistfaen', northward on the mountain above
>> Llandderfel. (A very useful lookup by Doreen & John in Canada helped confirm
>> this last year).
>> Edward had a sister, Mary, against whose name is written what looks like
>> 'Yotty Cynwyd' but which I suspect might be intended as 'Votty Cynwyd' (=
>> 'Hafotty Cynwyd'). Any clues as to where this might be?
>> There was a brother, William Williams, against whose name is written 'Henfas
>> Farm'. Is this Henfaes issa or Henfaes uchaf which I can see on the current
>> Explorer 255 Ordnance Survey 1:25 000 map, about one km south-east of
>> Cynwyd?
>>
>> David
>> Canberra
>
>
>
> ==== WLS-MERIONETHSHIRE Mailing List ====
> MERIONETH LINKS
> Gwynedd FHS
> <http://www.gwynedd.fsbusiness.co.uk/>
>
> ==============================
> To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy records, go
> to:
> http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237
>
Apologies to Jeff and Jan, I have been on "back to back" day and grave yard
shifts this week. What day is it now ? What a week..........
Re Jeff's comments: Thanks for going past Llandillo the other day. I hope
to get there one day, tribe in tow. And yes I think you are right that the
1891 Census is key to "locking in" on the correct people and family. I had
a brief chat with my 86yo Mum (who has Dementia) about the Edwards' and she
chirped up, unaided, that there was a Robert Edwards too ! News to me ! So
there is a Richard, poss an Edward, and there was a very old John in Ruthin
in 1971. Anyone got an 1891 Census ?
Jan's comments about help for Chester is greatly appreciated and IF I could
find my GF's Union badge that would be a great help right now. And yes
folks I CANT FIND IT ! Its in a safe place. So safe I cant find
it.....silly me. I'll keep looking in the meanwhile. Thanks Jan, I'll keep
you posted.
Best wishes from Sydney Australia.
John Edwards.
Dear Folks,
I would like to hear from anyone researching the following Llanfawr
families-
MAGDALEN JONES 1658-1756 of Cefn y Meirch. I think she may have been
married to
ROBERT GRIFFITHS who died in 1730, but have been unable to find his will to
prove this.
MAGDALEN'S children were-
JOHN ROBERTS Maesy Fallen (wife Gainor)
JANE ROBERTS Ty tan y Graig (husband John David)
CATHERINE ROBERTS Gwern yr Ewig (1st husband Thomas Morgan 2nd husband
Ellis Lloyd)
WILLIAM JONES 1765-1840 of Rhiwaedog was married to ELIN EDWARDS 1774-1836.
They had many children
ROBERT 1792-1852 who married DOROTHY JONES of Llangower. No descendants.
JOHN 1794-1867 who married Ann and later JANE ROBERTS OF CHIRK my GGGfather
JANE who married JOHN JONES
and the following whom I have not yet traced-
DAVID born 1796
ELIZABETH born 1798
WILLIAM born 1800
EBENEZER born 1805
Regards Jane McIntosh
Toowoomba, Queensland, Australia.
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Hi
Someone was looking for WIDDY's recently. We just came across these in the 1841 Gwyddelwern, Merioneth Census. (in the 1841 census ages are rounded)
HO 107
Census Place Cnty Dwelling 1st Name 2nd Nm Surname Age Occupation Cnty
Cynwyd Fawr (Gwyddelwern) Mer Tyn Gotel Gwen WIDDY 45 Independant No
Cynwyd Fawr (Gwyddelwern) Mer Tyn Gotel Charles WIDDY 13 No
Cynwyd Fawr (Gwyddelwern) Mer Tyn Gotel Nicodemus WIDDY 11 No
Cynwyd Fawr (Gwyddelwern) Mer Tyn Gotel Michael WIDDY 8 Yes
Cynwyd Fawr (Gwyddelwern) Mer Tyn Gotel Richard WIDDY 6 Yes
Doreen & John
Hamilton, Canada.
Hi Loretta,
1) Very many thanks for all the details on the family of "Llew" ROBERTS - you have given me 2 new 'half-cousins' (we share same grandfather, different grandmothers), the full name of Llew's wife Alice (I can now search for their marriage), & the year of Llew's death. I am absolutely delighted! Is there any way of finding out if there are any of Llew's descendants are alive today?
2) I appreciate your comment that 'WIDDY is no picnic'. Where do you good people hide? I've looked, with no success, for WIDDYs in : 1851 3-county census (Norfolk, Warwickshire, Devon), National Burial Index, UK Vital Records Index (V2), 1881 Canadian census, Merionethshire Marriage records 1754-1812 & 1813-1837, Llangar Baptisms 1762-1812 & 1813-1849, Llangar Burials 1762-1806, & various indexed parish records of Llandderfel, Llanfawr & Llanycil up to 1837.
3) Which Ty'n-y-gottel? Contributions from Alwyn & many others do suggest that there might be (at least?) two sites for this place - one just N of Corwen, & one in what is now the village of Cynwyd. Part of Cynwyd used to be in Gwyddelwern parish (don't ask why). Thus in the CD-rom transcription of the 1881 census one sees on RG11/5538/31/8 [(Gwyddelwern) Cynwyd Faur {sic}, Merioneth] : 1, 2 & 3 Ty'n Gottel Cottage, inhabited by John GRIFFITHS (+ son & daur in law), John ROBERTS, & David JONES (+ wife) respectively. In the census sequence these are followed by 1, 2 & 3 Chapel House, 1 & 2 Berwyn Cottage, School House, & Eagles Inn. My guess is that your WIDDY family were living in Cynwyd in Gwyddelwern parish. Local histories of the Cynwyd area might help : I believe that there is a relevant Welsh book titled "O'r Berwyn i'r Mynyllod" or something like that. Another useful source could well be Tithe Maps & Tithe Apportionment lists : these were produced just before 1840, & !
could show clearly where Ty'n-y-gottel is, & the names of owner & tenant if any land were associated with the property. I have found the tithe details for Llandrillo both interesting & useful - copies obtained from Ruthin Records Office.
4) Later ........ I have just been looking through my copy of "Mynwent Bethania" produced by Moreen ROSTRON of Cynwyd in recent years - a fascinating booklet about the cemetery of Bethania Baptist Chapel, Cynwyd. Sadly, no index. Anyway, an illustration of one of the gravestones shows the inscription - "In memory of Anne beloved wide of John Griffiths tailor and draper Tyn y gotel Cottage, born 16th Febry 1822 died 23 June 1863. Also of Jane their daughter born 3 July 1854 died 26 Feb. 1856. Also of John Griffiths who died March 19 1889 aged 72 years". A note beneath the illustration reads - 'John Griffiths was one of the founder Trustees [of the cemetery]. He was living at Tynchal (Frondeg) when the Indenture was signed [in 1843]'.
Best wishes, & again many thanks,
Jeff
Back in Suffolk after a week in Llandrillo (returning in a fortnight, just can't keep away..)