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Hi Alwyn,
Thank you so much for you information.
Dianne
----- Original Message -----
From: <AlwynapHuw(a)aol.com>
To: <WLS-MERIONETHSHIRE-L(a)rootsweb.com>
Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2003 2:39 PM
Subject: Re: [MER] Re-1831-Bryncrug
> In a message dated 22/04/2003 15:46:33 GMT Daylight Time,
> waynebillingsley(a)sasktel.net writes:
>
> > Hi:
> > Would anyone have the census for 1831 Bryncrug Mer.
> > I am searching for Evan Evans-wife is Anne Evans. My GG-Grandfather.
> > Their son Evan Evans in 1871 census worked on Cynfal Farm Bryncrug.
Would
> > anyone know if that farm is still there to-day.
> > I have noticed that Farms are named in Wales. Could anyone tell me in
> > general the origin of the names? Were they named after a person or
place?
> > Thank you Dianne
> >
>
> Hello Diane,
>
> Although a census was taken in Wales and England in 1801, 1811, 1821 and
> 1831, very very few of the returns have survived and, as far as I know,
there
> are no surviving census records before 1841 for anywhere in
Merionethshire.
>
> Cynfal, Bryncrug is still registered as an address in the Postal Address
> Book. If you go to one of the UK map sites such as
http://www.multimap.com/
> and put in the UK post code LL36 9RA, it will show a map (and an aerial
> photo) of the location. I don't know if it is still a farm. Many welsh
> farmhouses are now just private residences with their land having been
joined
> to other farms to make them a viable size for modern agriculture.
>
> Farms may be named after people, locations or physical descriptions. In
> Bryncrug I noticed a Bryn Ithel (Ithel's hill), Tan y Graig (under the
rock)
> and a Ty Gwyn (white house).
> I do not have much knowledge of the art of deciphering the origins of
place
> names, which is quite a specialist subject and not as straightforward as
it
> may appear, so I haven't got a clue about the origins of the farm name
> Cynfal.
>
> All the best
>
> Alwyn
>
>
> ==== WLS-MERIONETHSHIRE Mailing List ====
> MERIONETH LINKS
> Dolgellau History
> <http://Dolgellau.me.uk>
>
> ==============================
> To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy records,
go to:
> http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237
>
>
Hi:
Would anyone have the census for 1831 Bryncrug Mer.
I am searching for Evan Evans-wife is Anne Evans. My GG-Grandfather.
Their son Evan Evans in 1871 census worked on Cynfal Farm Bryncrug. Would anyone know if that farm is still there to-day.
I have noticed that Farms are named in Wales. Could anyone tell me in general the origin of the names? Were they named after a person or place?
Thank you Dianne
Hi Alwyn,
Although your answer was for Tony I would personally like to thank you for
that information on patronymics/surnames, which I previously didn't know
about.
Best Wishes,
Brian in Bedminster,
Bristol, England
Family History Webpage:
http://familytreemaker.genealogy.com/users/j/o/n/Brian-Jones/
----- Original Message -----
From: <AlwynapHuw(a)aol.com>
To: <WLS-MERIONETHSHIRE-L(a)rootsweb.com>
Sent: 21 April 2003 19:23
Subject: [MER] Re: Owen Roberts / surnames
> In a message dated 21/04/2003 08:13:58 GMT Daylight Time,
> afrancis(a)mail.pacificcoast.net writes:
>
> > Would it have been the parent's choice or the children's choice to make
> > this break with tradition
> > I would like to understand the patronymic naming tradition of my Owen
> > Roberts born about 1847 in Llanrwst, who worked as a labourer at Blaenau
> > Ffestiniog, walking there and back each weekend from Nebo, with his
sons,
> > David Owen Roberts, Robert Owen Roberts, et al. His youngest son was my
> > grandfather, Owen Roberts born 22 May 1881,
> > What a puzzle. Was my grandad's grandad a Roberts or an Owen?
> > Cheers, Tony
> >
> >
>
> The question of when and why people changed from using patronymic to fixed
> names is rather complicated.
> There was never a rule or a law that said that people HAD to adopt
surnames
> in Wales, if the change was governed by anything it was governed by
fashion.
> There seems to have been a two way spread of surname adoption - starting
at
> the top of the social strata with the gentry taking family names from the
> 14th century and starting in the east, with some of the working classes of
> the eastern parts of the Marches changing to surnames from the middle of
the
> 16th century.
>
> By 1750 all the Welsh gentry, most yeomen and a large number of people
living
> in towns had fixed surnames, All of Cheshire, Shropshire, Herefordshire
and
> Gloucester, most of Monmouthshire, Radnorshire & Brecknockshire and large
> parts of Fflintshire, Denbighshire, Montgomeryshire, Glamorgan and
> Pembrokeshire used surnames.
>
> Over the next 100 years the rest of Wales adopted surnames so that the
> process was almost complete by 1850. The latest examples that I have seen
of
> naturally occurring patronymics is in the 1890's by which time the rise in
> cultural nationalism had resulted in a number of people readopting
patronymic
> naming patterns (Sir Ifan ab Owen Edwards born in Llanuwchllyn in 1895, is
> possibly one of the most prominent examples of this).
>
> Who made the choice of surnames is also a complicated question. Some
> individuals did make a conscientious decision ether on their own behalf or
on
> behalf of their children to adopt a surname. However in the majority of
cases
> it would have been those responsible for writing the name down who decided
> what the name would be.
>
> Despite seeing names such as "John Humphreys" in parish registers the
person
> to whom it referred would possibly not recognise the name as his own as he
> would be called Sion Wmffra, Iwan Cochyn, or Ifan Ty Hir, etc. The way in
> which to write the persons name in English would have been a decision made
by
> the vicar, in the same way as earlier vicars had decided how to translate
> Welsh (and English) names into parish register Latin in earlier years.
> Different officials might have used different "rules", by which to record
his
> name, so Edward the son of William Evans may be recorded as Edward
Williams
> in one document and Edward Evans on another (I have a relation in
Trawsfynydd
> with different names in the burial register and on his headstone).
>
> Your great great grandfather in Llanrwst would probably have been a Mr
> Roberts if he was born in the town as most of the town's families appear
to
> have fixed names from about 1800 (however Capel Garmon, a chapel in the
same
> parish is still using patronymics in the 1840's).
>
> There are two Owen Roberts born about 1847 on the Llanrwst census for
1851:
>
> Owen Roberts aged 4 of Hafod Garmon House the son of Robert Roberts aged
37 a
> Labourer and Jane his wife (aged 41). The other children being Mary (11)
and
> David (7 weeks). Place of birth for the whole family is just
"Denbighshire"
>
> and Owen Roberts aged 4 of 8 Penisardre son of Owen Roberts 45 Fishmonger
> born Capel Curig or Llandygai, Margaret aged 47 his wife. Children Jane
(9)
> John (10) and Mary (1) wife & children all born in Llanrwst.
>
>
>
> All the best
>
> Alwyn
>
>
> ==== WLS-MERIONETHSHIRE Mailing List ====
> MERIONETH LINKS
> Gwynedd Archives
> <http://www.gwynedd.gov.uk/adrannau/addysg/archifau/english/links.htm>
>
> ==============================
> To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy records,
go to:
> http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237
>
Hello Sue,
I said 'everything else' is with Yvonne Edawards, which of course includes
the 1901 census.
Regards,
Stan.
----- Original Message -----
From: <WELSH53(a)aol.com>
To: <WLS-ANGLESEY-L(a)rootsweb.com>
Sent: Monday, April 21, 2003 5:57 PM
Subject: Re: [ANG] Back cover
>
> > The IGI and strays are with Myfyr Hughes, the pre 1858 abstracts of
wills
> > are with Heulwen Jones, the 1881 and 1891 census are with the named
> > representative of each branch, and more local knowledge can also be
gained
> > from them.Books for sale are with Gwyndaf Williams, and enquires about
the
> > library with Eluned Jones
>
> Hi Stan
> Yes I see this information but you had mentioned the 1901 too...SUE
>
>
> ==============================
> To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy records,
go to:
> http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237
>
Hello Sue,
The IGI and strays are with Myfyr Hughes, the pre 1858 abstracts of wills are with Heulwen Jones, the 1881 and 1891 census are with the named representative of each branch, and more local knowledge can also be gained from them.Books for sale are with Gwyndaf Williams, and enquires about the library with Eluned Jones
General enquires i.e. everything else, should be addressed to Yvonne Edwards.
All this information is on the back cover of your latest journal.
You should quote your membership number at all times, and please would members remember that we are all unpaid volunteers, doing our best to help others, but all with limited time, as we too have our own lives to lead.
Regards,
Stan.
Gwynedd FHS
Stan
I checked the back of the last journal and can not see who to write to for info on census other than 1881 and 1891.... help?
SUE DAVIES SIT
Good afternoon Tony,
"> I am curious to know when this family adopted their surname Owen "
From Robert Owen born 1800.
"> Would it have been the parent's choice or the children's choice to make
> this break with tradition?"
No idea on that one.
"> Curiously your Robert ap Owen appears as a lonely representative of his
> generation without any siblings or cousins "
He was an only child and I know nothing about his cousins. I would dearly
love to make contact with his father, Owen Roberts' (b.1761) siblings
descendants if their are any out there?
"> Was Richard Owen's siblings' choice of surname influenced by the distant
> schooling of Richard and exposure to his academic world?"
Also no idea on that one.
"> Did other families in the Ffestiniog area continue to use patronymics for
> some years after Richard's schooling in 1850-ish?"
Can't help you on that one. Perhaps someone else on the list can help you
with this.
I traced this family back to Evan Matthias with the help of a Welsh
researcher. I am completely stuck on my Jones line at William Jones born
1766 in Abergele, Denbighshire with my Jones family. I expect I would be
getting into patronymics with the ancestors of William and as it looks like
they moved around quite a bit this may be an impossible task. I think what
made it easier for the researcher with my Owen family was they didn't move
out of Ffestiniog between the 1600's to the 1800's, so their baptisms were
found relatively easy in the Ffestiniog parish records.
Best Wishes,
Brian in Bedminster,
Bristol, England
Family History Webpage:
http://familytreemaker.genealogy.com/users/j/o/n/Brian-Jones/
----- Original Message -----
From: "Anthony Francis" <afrancis(a)mail.pacificcoast.net>
To: <WLS-MERIONETHSHIRE-L(a)rootsweb.com>
Sent: 21 April 2003 08:12
Subject: Re: [MER] OWEN of FFESTINIOG
> Subject: [MER] OWEN of FFESTINIOG
> Hi Brian,
> I was very interested to see your patronymic family on your website:
> Robert ap Evan b.1726 married Catherine William producing Owen ap Robert
b.1761
> Owen ap Robert b.1761 married Ann Morris producing Robert ap Owen b.1800
> Robert ap Owen b.1800 married Jane Jones producing Robert Owen b.1834
> I am curious to know when this family adopted their surname Owen and if
> they all did it about the same time.
> Your display suggests that it happened in Robert ap Owen's generation of
> parenting because his children all used their father's second name instead
> of his first name.
> Would it have been the parent's choice or the children's choice to make
> this break with tradition?
> Curiously your Robert ap Owen appears as a lonely representative of his
> generation without any siblings or cousins to compare the adoption of
> surnames. Might this be because his cousins are hard to find because of
> their continuing use of patronymics?
> Was Richard Owen's siblings' choice of surname influenced by the distant
> schooling of Richard and exposure to his academic world?
> Did other families in the Ffestiniog area continue to use patronymics for
> some years after Richard's schooling in 1850-ish?
> I would like to understand the patronymic naming tradition of my Owen
> Roberts born about 1847 in Llanrwst, who worked as a labourer at Blaenau
> Ffestiniog, walking there and back each weekend from Nebo, with his sons,
> David Owen Roberts, Robert Owen Roberts, et al. His youngest son was my
> grandfather, Owen Roberts born 22 May 1881, a staunchly independent
> chapel-goer.
> Coincidentally, living with them as domestic servants in Llanrwst, Capel
> Garmon, Brynbras Bach in 1881, was William Roberts b.1821 and Catherine
> Roberts b.1823.
> What a puzzle. Was my grandad's grandad a Roberts or an Owen?
> Cheers, Tony
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------
>
> >From: "Brian Jones" <brianjones(a)blueyonder.co.uk>
> >Subject: Re: [MER] OWEN of FFESTINIOG
> >Date: Sun, 20 Apr 2003 04:26:04 +0100
> >X-Mailing-List: <WLS-MERIONETHSHIRE-L(a)rootsweb.com> archive/latest/1018
> >Good morning Rhian,
> >Thank you very much for your informative email.
> >Am I right in thinking that I should take the Llan from the address for
> >Neuadd Ddu?
> >
> >I have been trying for about 5 years to get some history on Neuadd Ddu,
even
> >writing to the current occupants but unfortunately I never got a reply.
As
> >I understand it Neuadd Ddu means Black Hall and I was wondering if the
> >original building was part of a larger manorial one? Can you please help
in
> >this respect? A contact in North Wales managed to get a couple of
photos
> >of Neuadd Ddu and a stone set in the wall with the initials RO, which we
> >believe is the intitials of Robert Owen born 1800 who took over the farm
in
> >1818.
> >
> >Yes I knew of the Owen family history and if you would like to go to the
> >link "The life of The Reverend R Owen MA" in the Related Files in my
website
> >http://familytreemaker.genealogy.com/users/j/o/n/Brian-Jones/ you will
see I
> >have written a short article on Robert Owen MA and his family, which the
> >translated information I got from the publications you mentioned
> >
> >Also in the Related Files of my website there is "Owen Family of
Ffestiniog
> >Report" which covers the Owen family from Evan Matthias born abt 1685 in
> >Ffestiniog to myself.
> >
> >Another couple of links you may like to go to are "Jones Family History"
and
> >"A Religious Merger and a Welsh Migration", these articles also give
mention
> >of Merioneth and the Owen family although some of the information is
> >repeated in each text.
> >
> >You will have to excuse some of the grammar in these articles, english
was
> >definitely not my best subject at school.
> >
> >Thanks again for your help and I look forward to hearing from you.
> >
> >Best Wishes,
> >Brian in Bedminster,
> >Bristol, England
> >Family History Webpage:
> >http://familytreemaker.genealogy.com/users/j/o/n/Brian-Jones/
>
> >----------- Original Message ------------------------
> >
> >From: "Rhian Williams" <rhian.williams3(a)tinyworld.co.uk>
> >To: <WLS-MERIONETHSHIRE-L(a)rootsweb.com>
> >Sent: 19 April 2003 21:29
> >Subject: Re: [MER] OWEN of FFESTINIOG
> >
> >>Brian,
> >>
> >>I am not aware that I am connected with this family although on one side
> >>mine is another Owen family of the parishes of Maentwrog and Ffestiniog.
> >>However, I have come across this family and I actually live near Neuadd
> >Ddu.
> >>
> >>Can I just mention one thing, though. The parish was and is that of
> >>Ffestiniog. These days the term Llan Ffestiniog tends to be used for the
> >>village where the original parish church was and Blaenau Ffestiniog for
the
> >>town that developed later, though Ffestiniog or Stiniog is occasionally
used
> >>for either (the former more often for Llan Ffestiniog) or for the whole
> >>area. Neuadd Ddu is not actually in Llan Ffestiniog, though it is in the
> >>parish of Ffestiniog. It is in what is today called Manod which is a
> >>'suburb' of Blaenau Ffestiniog. I think that Bwlch loncyn that you
mention
> >>is really Bwlch Iocyn, also in Manod.
> >>
> >>Are you aware of the considerable mention there is of Robert Owen in
books
> >>such as 'Hanes Methodistiaeth Gorllewin Meirionydd' vol 2 (Dolgellau
1891)
> >>(p108-132 especially) as well of his father Owen Robert and son Richard
> >>Owen? It mentions all three as elders of local Calvinistic Methodist
> >>churches (the father as the earliest elder in the parish) and in fact
gives
> >>the birth of Robert in 1800 and his move from Bwlch Iocyn to Neuadd Ddu
when
> >>he was 9 years old as well as some stories as to his character.
> >>
> >>Let me know if I can be of any help.
> >>
> >>Rhian Williams
> >>
> >> -------------- Original Message --------------------
> >>
> >>From: Brian Jones <brianjones(a)blueyonder.co.uk>
> >>To: <WLS-MERIONETHSHIRE-L(a)rootsweb.com>
> >>Sent: Saturday, April 19, 2003 4:06 AM
> >>Subject: [MER] OWEN of FFESTINIOG
> >>
> >>>Hi List,
> >>>
> >>>I am looking for any descendants of or connections with the following
> >>>family:
> >>>
> >>>Head: ROBERT OWEN Born 27 May 1800, Bwlch loncyn, Llan Ffestiniog,
> >>>Merioneth - Died 4 Mar 1871 Neuadd ddu, Llan Ffestiniog, Merioneth>
> >>>
> >>>Married 22 May 1824, Llan Ffestiniog, Merioneth
> >>>
> >>>Spouse: JANE JONES Born 11 Feb 1801, Llanfachreth, Merioneth - Died 28
Feb
> >>>1866 Neuadd ddu, Llan Ffestiniog, Merioneth
> >>>
> >>>Children:
> >>>
> >>>ANN OWEN Born 17 Jul 1826, Neuadd ddu, Ffestiniog, Merioneth
> >>>
> >>>OWEN OWEN Born 11 Nov 1827, Neuadd ddu, Llan Ffestiniog, Merioneth
> >>>
> >>>ELIZABETH OWEN Born 11 Sep 1829, Neuadd ddu, Llan Ffestiniog,
Merioneth -
> >>>Died 10 Nov 1866 Islington, London - Married H. Hughes abt 1864
> >>>
> >>>JOHN OWEN Born 30 Dec 1831 Neuadd ddu, Llan Ffestiniog, Merioneth -
Died 9
> >>>June 1886 Clunes, Victoria, Australia - Married Ellen Curtin abt 1873
> >>>
> >>>ROBERT OWEN Born 15 Mar 1834 Neuadd ddu, Llan Ffestiniog, Merioneth -
> >>>Died 8 Nov 1899 Llwynteg, Pennal, Merioneth
> >>>
> >>>CATHERINE OWEN Born 18 May 1836 Neuadd ddu, Llan Ffestiniog,
Merioneth -
> >>>Died 29 Jun 1900 Penrhynduedraeth, Merioneth - Married Edwin Jones 15
April
> >>>1871 (My direct family)
> >>>
> >>>RICHARD OWEN Born 16 Jun 1838 Neuadd ddu, Llan Ffestiniog, Merioneth -
> >>>Died 27 Oct 1879 Neuadd ddu, Llan Ffestiniog, Merioneth
> >>>
> >>>DAVID OWEN Born 26 Jan 1840 Neuadd ddu, Llan Ffestiniog, Merioneth
> >>>
> >>>JANE OWEN Born 13 Oct 1841 Neuadd ddu, Llan Ffestiniog, Merioneth
> >>>
> >>>SARAH OWEN Born abt 1842 Neuadd ddu, Llan Ffestiniog, Merioneth -
> >>>Married Owen Williams
> >>>
> >>>Looking forward to hearing from someone.
> >>>
> >>>Best Wishes,
> >>>Brian in Bedminster,
> >>>Bristol, England
> >>>Family History Webpage:
>
>
>
> ==== WLS-MERIONETHSHIRE Mailing List ====
> MERIONETH LINKS
> Gwynedd Archives
> <http://www.gwynedd.gov.uk/adrannau/addysg/archifau/english/links.htm>
>
> ==============================
> To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy records,
go to:
> http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237
>
In a message dated 21/04/2003 08:13:58 GMT Daylight Time,
afrancis(a)mail.pacificcoast.net writes:
> Would it have been the parent's choice or the children's choice to make
> this break with tradition
> I would like to understand the patronymic naming tradition of my Owen
> Roberts born about 1847 in Llanrwst, who worked as a labourer at Blaenau
> Ffestiniog, walking there and back each weekend from Nebo, with his sons,
> David Owen Roberts, Robert Owen Roberts, et al. His youngest son was my
> grandfather, Owen Roberts born 22 May 1881,
> What a puzzle. Was my grandad's grandad a Roberts or an Owen?
> Cheers, Tony
>
>
The question of when and why people changed from using patronymic to fixed
names is rather complicated.
There was never a rule or a law that said that people HAD to adopt surnames
in Wales, if the change was governed by anything it was governed by fashion.
There seems to have been a two way spread of surname adoption - starting at
the top of the social strata with the gentry taking family names from the
14th century and starting in the east, with some of the working classes of
the eastern parts of the Marches changing to surnames from the middle of the
16th century.
By 1750 all the Welsh gentry, most yeomen and a large number of people living
in towns had fixed surnames, All of Cheshire, Shropshire, Herefordshire and
Gloucester, most of Monmouthshire, Radnorshire & Brecknockshire and large
parts of Fflintshire, Denbighshire, Montgomeryshire, Glamorgan and
Pembrokeshire used surnames.
Over the next 100 years the rest of Wales adopted surnames so that the
process was almost complete by 1850. The latest examples that I have seen of
naturally occurring patronymics is in the 1890's by which time the rise in
cultural nationalism had resulted in a number of people readopting patronymic
naming patterns (Sir Ifan ab Owen Edwards born in Llanuwchllyn in 1895, is
possibly one of the most prominent examples of this).
Who made the choice of surnames is also a complicated question. Some
individuals did make a conscientious decision ether on their own behalf or on
behalf of their children to adopt a surname. However in the majority of cases
it would have been those responsible for writing the name down who decided
what the name would be.
Despite seeing names such as "John Humphreys" in parish registers the person
to whom it referred would possibly not recognise the name as his own as he
would be called Sion Wmffra, Iwan Cochyn, or Ifan Ty Hir, etc. The way in
which to write the persons name in English would have been a decision made by
the vicar, in the same way as earlier vicars had decided how to translate
Welsh (and English) names into parish register Latin in earlier years.
Different officials might have used different "rules", by which to record his
name, so Edward the son of William Evans may be recorded as Edward Williams
in one document and Edward Evans on another (I have a relation in Trawsfynydd
with different names in the burial register and on his headstone).
Your great great grandfather in Llanrwst would probably have been a Mr
Roberts if he was born in the town as most of the town's families appear to
have fixed names from about 1800 (however Capel Garmon, a chapel in the same
parish is still using patronymics in the 1840's).
There are two Owen Roberts born about 1847 on the Llanrwst census for 1851:
Owen Roberts aged 4 of Hafod Garmon House the son of Robert Roberts aged 37 a
Labourer and Jane his wife (aged 41). The other children being Mary (11) and
David (7 weeks). Place of birth for the whole family is just "Denbighshire"
and Owen Roberts aged 4 of 8 Penisardre son of Owen Roberts 45 Fishmonger
born Capel Curig or Llandygai, Margaret aged 47 his wife. Children Jane (9)
John (10) and Mary (1) wife & children all born in Llanrwst.
All the best
Alwyn
Dear listers,
Very many of you are Gwynedd FHS members, and as such have been sending
their praises to Yvonne Edwards, Editor, and her ' staff ' for the excellent
journal now produced by the Society.
Yvonne is far too modest to explain that she has no ' staff ' and the
production is all her own work.
Many thanks to all those members who telephoned, wrote or sent an e-mail to
her over the last few days.
I hope Alwyn has no objection in my sending this e-mail, but he more than
most, is aware of the invaluble work done by Yvonne as General Secretary,
Editor, Secretary of the Bangor Branch, Arfon Joint Project Officer, Minutes
Secretary and staffing the ' open days ' at Brynffynnon Centre. A very
remarkable person !
Regards,
Stan.
Gwynedd FHS.
Hello Marilyn,
Llangelynin and Dolgellau 1851 census have not been indexed by the Society,
but any member of Gwynedd FHS can write to the relevant person [see inside
back cover of the latest journal ] to seek information on the1851, 1881,
1891, or 1901 census. Around 300 Churchyards have also been recorded, and
indexed by name and abode.There are abstracts of pre 1858 wills, baptism
records, burial records, marriage indexes, books for sale, as well as a
lending library.
Members will search these records on your behalf, as long as you are not too
demanding.
PLEASE QUOTE YOUR MEMBERSHIP NUMBER AT ALL TIMES.
Regards,
Stan.
Gwynedd FHS.
----- Original Message -----
From: Watson Family <watsonb(a)iinet.com.au>
To: <WLS-MERIONETHSHIRE-L(a)rootsweb.com>
Sent: Monday, April 21, 2003 11:02 AM
Subject: Re: [MER] 1841 census Mer.
> Hi Stan,
> knew it wasn't going to be that easy it never is!
> I couldn't find this family in the 1841 census of Llangelynin but perhaps
> if you would be so kind,to check them on the 1851 around that
> area.Dolgellau etc.I would really appreciate your help.
> many thanks
> Marilyn
>
>
>
>
> At 01:00 PM 21/04/03, you wrote:
> >Hello Marilyn,
> >
> >There were 34 parishes in Merionethshire and a census for each. I don't
know
> >of an index for the 1841 census, but there are several for 1851, produced
by
> >the Gwynedd FHS.
> >
> >Stan.
> >Gwynedd FHS.
> >
> >
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: Watson Family <watsonb(a)iinet.com.au>
> >To: <WLS-MERIONETHSHIRE-L(a)rootsweb.com>
> >Sent: Monday, April 21, 2003 4:51 AM
> >Subject: [MER] 1841 census Mer.
> >
> >
> > > Hi,
> > > Please can anyone help.Is there such a thing as a 1841 census index
of
> > > Merionthshire?
> > > If so I am looking for a Thomas Family
> > > LEWIS THOMAS b.c.1790's MER.LLANGELYNIN stone mason or farmer
> > > CATHERINE THOMAS b.1796 MER.LLANGELYNIN
> > > RICHARD THOMAS b.1821 MER.LLANGELYNIN stone mason
> > > GRIFFITH THOMAS b.1824 MER.LLANGELYNIN
> > >
> > > cheers Marilyn
> > >
> > >
> > > ==== WLS-MERIONETHSHIRE Mailing List ====
> > > >MERIONETH LINKS
> > > Dolgellau History
> > > <http://Dolgellau.me.uk>
> > >
> > > ==============================
> > > To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy
records,
> >go to:
> > > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237
> > >
> >
> >
> >==== WLS-MERIONETHSHIRE Mailing List ====
> >MERIONETH LINKS
> >Gwynedd FHS
> ><http://www.gwynedd.fsbusiness.co.uk/>
> >
> >==============================
> >To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy records,
> >go to:
> >http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237
>
>
> ==== WLS-MERIONETHSHIRE Mailing List ====
> MERIONETH LINKS
> Dolgellau History
> <http://Dolgellau.me.uk>
>
> ==============================
> To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy records,
go to:
> http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237
>
Hi,
Please can anyone help.Is there such a thing as a 1841 census index of
Merionthshire?
If so I am looking for a Thomas Family
LEWIS THOMAS b.c.1790's MER.LLANGELYNIN stone mason or farmer
CATHERINE THOMAS b.1796 MER.LLANGELYNIN
RICHARD THOMAS b.1821 MER.LLANGELYNIN stone mason
GRIFFITH THOMAS b.1824 MER.LLANGELYNIN
cheers Marilyn
Hello Marilyn,
There were 34 parishes in Merionethshire and a census for each. I don't know
of an index for the 1841 census, but there are several for 1851, produced by
the Gwynedd FHS.
Stan.
Gwynedd FHS.
----- Original Message -----
From: Watson Family <watsonb(a)iinet.com.au>
To: <WLS-MERIONETHSHIRE-L(a)rootsweb.com>
Sent: Monday, April 21, 2003 4:51 AM
Subject: [MER] 1841 census Mer.
> Hi,
> Please can anyone help.Is there such a thing as a 1841 census index of
> Merionthshire?
> If so I am looking for a Thomas Family
> LEWIS THOMAS b.c.1790's MER.LLANGELYNIN stone mason or farmer
> CATHERINE THOMAS b.1796 MER.LLANGELYNIN
> RICHARD THOMAS b.1821 MER.LLANGELYNIN stone mason
> GRIFFITH THOMAS b.1824 MER.LLANGELYNIN
>
> cheers Marilyn
>
>
> ==== WLS-MERIONETHSHIRE Mailing List ====
> >MERIONETH LINKS
> Dolgellau History
> <http://Dolgellau.me.uk>
>
> ==============================
> To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy records,
go to:
> http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237
>
Hi
It seems strange to me that there is not much research
gone into the direct male line of Lord Snowdon and the
immediate family of his ancestor JOHN RICHARD oF Ty
Newydd LLandecwyn,all of his children bore the name
Jones,only later the family of Snowdon aquiring the
surname Armstrong-Jones,.If anyone has any info on the
descendants of JR, or a true ancestry for Lord Snowdon
other than that found in the Griffiths pedigrees,
please get in touch.For such a sparsely populated
area,surely a true and accurate account of one of
merionethshires sons should be recorded,and there must
be hundreds of JR'S descendandts still living in the
area unaware of their connection to royalty.
cofion gorau
ALED....
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Everything you'll ever need on one web page
from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts
http://uk.my.yahoo.com
Hello Neil,
You can find full details of the Gwynedd FHS on www.gwynedd.fsbusiness.co.uk
I hope to welcome you, and any others, to the Society.
Regards,
Stan.
Gwynedd FHS.
----- Original Message -----
From: <neil(a)parysmountain.co.uk>
To: <gwyneddmembers(a)onetel.net.uk>
Sent: Sunday, April 20, 2003 3:41 PM
Subject: Re: [ANG] Re: [CAE] Re: WLS-CAERNARFONSHIRE-D Digest V03 #99
> Hi Stanley,
>
> Could you just outline the benefits of joining GFHS to me.
> It has never occurred to me to join before but following this thread I
think
> I might.
> Neil Summers
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Stanley Wrigley" <gwyneddmembers(a)onetel.net.uk>
> To: <WLS-ANGLESEY-L(a)rootsweb.com>
> Sent: Saturday, April 19, 2003 9:05 AM
> Subject: [ANG] Re: [CAE] Re: WLS-CAERNARFONSHIRE-D Digest V03 #99
>
>
> Hello Ann,
>
> Membership is £8 in the UK. You can send your name and address to me, with
a
> cheque made out to Gwynedd FHS.
>
> I hope to welcome you to the Society.
>
> Regards,
>
> Stan,
>
> Stan Wrigley
> Membership Secretary
> Brithdir
> 9 Pen Lon
> Menai Bridge
> Anglesey
> LL59 5LW
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <ACTROTT(a)aol.com>
> To: <WLS-CAERNARFONSHIRE-L(a)rootsweb.com>
> Sent: Saturday, April 19, 2003 8:49 AM
> Subject: [CAE] Re: WLS-CAERNARFONSHIRE-D Digest V03 #99
>
>
> > How much is membership in this country(UK)?
> > Where do I send cheque as I cannot get to a fair?
> > Ann
> >
> >
> > ==== WLS-CAERNARFONSHIRE Mailing List ====
> > Gwynedd Family History Society
> > 36 Y Wern Y Felinheli, Gwynedd LL56 4TXX
> > Gwynedd.Roots(a)tesco.net or gwyneddroots(a)onetel.net.uk
> >
> > ==============================
> > To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy
records,
> go to:
> > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237
> >
>
>
> ==============================
> To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy records,
go
> to:
> http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237
>
>
>
Megan,
I wish every member thought like you. It would make my life a lot easier.
Stan.
Gwynedd FHS Membership Secretary
----- Original Message -----
From: Megan Roberts <welshladymegan(a)yahoo.co.uk>
To: <WLS-CAERNARFONSHIRE-L(a)rootsweb.com>
Sent: Sunday, April 20, 2003 1:29 PM
Subject: Re: [CAE] Re: FFHS online subscription limitation.
>
> Alwyn
> Its so much easier to do what I do - pay by standing order - then I don't
even have to remember that its due, or worse that its over due!
> Megan
> Stanley Wrigley <gwyneddmembers(a)onetel.net.uk> wrote:Hello Alwyn,
>
> I can confirm everything you say, and thank you for pointing them out. Of
> course, overseas members don't, and have not, paid VAT.
>
> As Membership Secretary, I must admit I liked the part where you say you
> wish to pay your subscription in advance at the fair in September.Any
other
> member is free to do the same [ hint hint ]
>
> Regards,
>
> Stan,
> Gwynedd FHS.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From:
> To:
> Sent: Saturday, April 19, 2003 12:53 AM
> Subject: Re: [CAE] Re: FFHS online subscription limitation.
>
>
> > In a message dated 18/04/2003 19:11:13 GMT Daylight Time,
> > gwyneddmembers(a)onetel.net.uk writes:
> >
> > > Please note that membership subscription payments through the new site
> > > will be restricted to overseas members only, until the question of VAT
> > > on UK/EU subscriptions has been definitively resolved.
> > >
> >
> > I hope that Stan, Gwyndaf, Yevonne , etc., don't mind me mentioning
this,
> but
> > the old GENfair site use to charge VAT on fiche purchases, which made
them
> > considerably more expensive than buying direct from the society (I
haven't
> > seen the new site, but I suppose that they will also charge VAT). There
is
> > also the fact that part of the "cost" of buying on-line is that GENfair
/
> > FFHS, take their cut, which means less for Gwynedd / Clwyd, etc., FHS's.
> >
> > So unless it is absolutely necessary to buy on-line (for example - in
the
> > case of overseas researchers) it is better for you and better for the
> > societies to buy direct from the FHS. Having bought on-line and bought
> > direct, the only difference that I have found is a time difference of
> about
> > one day in getting the goods.
> >
> > However, on the subject of membership fees, can I make a suggestion? I
> always
> > pay my membership in the Llandudno fair in September, which means that I
> am
> > always 9 months in arrears :-( .
> >
> > In the next fair can I pay for this year's membership (as usual) but
also
> > have the facility to pay NEXT years membership in advance, so that I can
> be a
> > fully paid up member from the beginning of a membership year for a
change?
> >
> > All the best
> >
> > Alwyn
> >
> >
> > ==== WLS-CAERNARFONSHIRE Mailing List ====
> > Gwynedd Family History Society
> > 36 Y Wern Y Felinheli, Gwynedd LL56 4TXX
> > Gwynedd.Roots(a)tesco.net or gwyneddroots(a)onetel.net.uk
> >
> > ==============================
> > To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy
records,
> go to:
> > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237
> >
>
>
> ==== WLS-CAERNARFONSHIRE Mailing List ====
> Gwynedd Family History Society
> 36 Y Wern Y Felinheli, Gwynedd LL56 4TXX
> Gwynedd.Roots(a)tesco.net or gwyneddroots(a)onetel.net.uk
>
> ==============================
> To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy records,
go to:
> http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Yahoo! Plus - For a better Internet experience
>
>
> ==== WLS-CAERNARFONSHIRE Mailing List ====
> Gwynedd Family History Society
> 36 Y Wern Y Felinheli, Gwynedd LL56 4TXX
> Gwynedd.Roots(a)tesco.net or gwyneddroots(a)onetel.net.uk
>
> ==============================
> To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy records,
go to:
> http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237
>
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I would just like to add a few comments to add to Alwyn's comments on the
Merionethshire section of rootsweb.
I am a very new researcher, who with advice from a friend found rootsweb,
eventually plucking up the courage to post my own enquiry.
Looking for information on the family of Dr Joseph W. Morris, formally of
"Bryn Marion" Blaenau Ffestiniog. Died 1951.
Bingo!
Alwyn - thank you, you started the ball rolling by sending me some
information that I was unable to source.
Followed by a message through a subscriber from a (previously lost) family
member still living in Merioneth!
She has written to me (not having computer access) and my next course of
action is to visit her shortly. Perhaps by putting her knowledge along with
the knowledge I have managed to date to acquire - I hope to see a bigger
picture.
So thank you one and all.
Once I have returned from my excursion to Wales I may need some more info
but until then
Thank you.
Gwyneth
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Reply-To: <WLS-MERIONETHSHIRE-L(a)rootsweb.com>
From: <AlwynapHuw(a)aol.com>
To: <WLS-MERIONETHSHIRE-L(a)rootsweb.com>
Subject: Re: [MER] Merioneth one of the best Rootsweb sites
Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2003 23:59:56 +0100
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In a message dated 19/04/2003 15:23:55 GMT Daylight Time,
mnjbuckley(a)fonant.co.uk writes:
> Thanks to contacts made through WLS-MERIONETHSHIRE-L(a)rootsweb.com I was
> able to transcribe the 1851 census for Dinas Mawddwy (where exactly is it
> to be found now, Alwyn?)
>
>
Hello Judy,
The Census transcription that you made can still be found on my websites on
http://dolgellau.me.uk/M/Dinas/index.htm
and the mirror site on Rootsweb at
http://freepages.history.rootsweb.com/~alwyn/M/Dinas/index.htm
I did send it to Brian at GenUKI some 18 months ago, to be included in their
Merioneth pages, I shall have to chase that up to see why it isn't yet
included.
All the best
Alwyn
==== WLS-MERIONETHSHIRE Mailing List ====
MERIONETH LINKS
Ffestiniog Home Page
http://www.ffestiniog.org.uk/cym/home.html
==============================
To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy records, go
to:
http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237
------=_NextPart_000_0000_01C3071E.BF546BA0--
Brian,
I am not aware that I am connected with this family although on one side
mine is another Owen family of the parishes of Maentwrog and Ffestiniog.
However, I have come across this family and I actually live near Neuadd Ddu.
Can I just mention one thing, though. The parish was and is that of
Ffestiniog. These days the term Llan Ffestiniog tends to be used for the
village where the original parish church was and Blaenau Ffestiniog for the
town that developed later, though Ffestiniog or Stiniog is occasionally used
for either (the former more often for Llan Ffestiniog) or for the whole
area. Neuadd Ddu is not actually in Llan Ffestiniog, though it is in the
parish of Ffestiniog. It is in what is today called Manod which is a
'suburb' of Blaenau Ffestiniog. I think that Bwlch loncyn that you mention
is really Bwlch Iocyn, also in Manod.
Are you aware of the considerable mention there is of Robert Owen in books
such as 'Hanes Methodistiaeth Gorllewin Meirionydd' vol 2 (Dolgellau 1891)
(p108-132 especially) as well of his father Owen Robert and son Richard
Owen? It mentions all three as elders of local Calvinistic Methodist
churches (the father as the earliest elder in the parish) and in fact gives
the birth of Robert in 1800 and his move from Bwlch Iocyn to Neuadd Ddu when
he was 9 years old as well as some stories as to his character.
Let me know if I can be of any help.
Rhian Williams
----- Original Message -----
From: Brian Jones <brianjones(a)blueyonder.co.uk>
To: <WLS-MERIONETHSHIRE-L(a)rootsweb.com>
Sent: Saturday, April 19, 2003 4:06 AM
Subject: [MER] OWEN of FFESTINIOG
> Hi List,
>
> I am looking for any descendants of or connections with the following
family:
>
> Head: ROBERT OWEN Born 27 May 1800, Bwlch loncyn, Llan Ffestiniog,
Merioneth - Died 4 Mar 1871 Neuadd ddu, Llan Ffestiniog, Merioneth
>
>
> Married 22 May 1824, Llan Ffestiniog, Merioneth
>
> Spouse: JANE JONES Born 11 Feb 1801, Llanfachreth, Merioneth - Died 28 Feb
1866 Neuadd ddu, Llan Ffestiniog, Merioneth
>
> Children:
>
> ANN OWEN Born 17 Jul 1826, Neuadd ddu, Ffestiniog, Merioneth
>
> OWEN OWEN Born 11 Nov 1827, Neuadd ddu, Llan Ffestiniog, Merioneth
>
> ELIZABETH OWEN Born 11 Sep 1829, Neuadd ddu, Llan Ffestiniog, Merioneth -
Died 10 Nov 1866 Islington, London - Married H. Hughes abt 1864
>
> JOHN OWEN Born 30 Dec 1831 Neuadd ddu, Llan Ffestiniog, Merioneth - Died 9
June 1886 Clunes, Victoria, Australia - Married Ellen Curtin abt 1873
>
> ROBERT OWEN Born 15 Mar 1834 Neuadd ddu, Llan Ffestiniog, Merioneth - Died
8 Nov 1899 Llwynteg, Pennal, Merioneth
>
> CATHERINE OWEN Born 18 May 1836 Neuadd ddu, Llan Ffestiniog, Merioneth -
Died 29 Jun 1900 Penrhynduedraeth, Merioneth - Married Edwin Jones 15 April
1871 (My direct family)
>
> RICHARD OWEN Born 16 Jun 1838 Neuadd ddu, Llan Ffestiniog, Merioneth -
Died 27 Oct 1879 Neuadd ddu, Llan Ffestiniog, Merioneth
>
> DAVID OWEN Born 26 Jan 1840 Neuadd ddu, Llan Ffestiniog, Merioneth
>
> JANE OWEN Born 13 Oct 1841 Neuadd ddu, Llan Ffestiniog, Merioneth
>
> SARAH OWEN Born abt 1842 Neuadd ddu, Llan Ffestiniog, Merioneth - Married
Owen Williams
>
> Looking forward to hearing from someone.
>
> Best Wishes,
> Brian in Bedminster,
> Bristol, England
> Family History Webpage:
http://familytreemaker.genealogy.com/users/j/o/n/Brian-Jones/
>
>
>
>
> ==== WLS-MERIONETHSHIRE Mailing List ====
> MERIONETH LINKS
> Gwynedd FHS
> <http://www.gwynedd.fsbusiness.co.uk/>
>
> ==============================
> To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy records,
go to:
> http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237
>
In a message dated 19/04/2003 15:59:34 GMT Daylight Time, JmsHogg(a)aol.com
writes:
> I agree with Judy Buckley that though the Merioneth list may be on the quiet
>
> side it has other virtues, principally the ever-informative Alwyn.
>
Thank you James (and Judy) for your kind comments. However, as much as I
enjoy the kudos, it is unfair to single out any individual for praise on
these lists as there are so many who make a valuable contribution.
The Merionethshire list only has 160 subscribers, so it is the smallest of
the Rootsweb UK counties lists. Glamorgan has about 850 subscribers and
Lancashire (the biggest English list) a massive 1,800. But the participation
statistics on Rootsweb show that on average only 15% of list members write to
the lists of which they are members at least once a month. The participation
rate for Merioneth shows an average of 22% over the past 12 months. So we may
not be big, but we're good <g>.
The 78% who haven't written to the list in the last month, are of course,
most welcome to make our list statistics even better, by letting us know what
their research interests are.
All the best
Alwyn
In a message dated 19/04/2003 15:23:55 GMT Daylight Time,
mnjbuckley(a)fonant.co.uk writes:
> Thanks to contacts made through WLS-MERIONETHSHIRE-L(a)rootsweb.com I was
> able to transcribe the 1851 census for Dinas Mawddwy (where exactly is it
> to be found now, Alwyn?)
>
>
Hello Judy,
The Census transcription that you made can still be found on my websites on
http://dolgellau.me.uk/M/Dinas/index.htm
and the mirror site on Rootsweb at
http://freepages.history.rootsweb.com/~alwyn/M/Dinas/index.htm
I did send it to Brian at GenUKI some 18 months ago, to be included in their
Merioneth pages, I shall have to chase that up to see why it isn't yet
included.
All the best
Alwyn
I have found more help on WLS-MERIONETHSHIRE-L(a)rootsweb.com than on many others I have subscribed to.
Although Merionethshire is a sparsely populated place, those of us with ancestors who lived there find that many of them bore the same name as the rest of their village (often John Evans, like my gt gt grandfather!) and census transcriptions are gradually becoming available on-line to help us sort them all out by age, family or occupation.
Thanks to contacts made through WLS-MERIONETHSHIRE-L(a)rootsweb.com I was able to transcribe the 1851 census for Dinas Mawddwy (where exactly is it to be found now, Alwyn?)
I am willing to do another census for Dinas, or 1851 for Mallwyd ... given the photocopies to work from ...
Judy Buckley
I agree with Judy Buckley that though the Merioneth list may be on the quiet
side it has other virtues, principally the ever-informative Alwyn.
James Hogg