Are they in Liscard, Wallasey in 1881?...
John Thomas 60 master mariner b North Wales
Elizabeth A Thomas 45 b South Wales
Hugh R E Thomas 10 b Liverpool
Arthur L Thomas 7 b Liverpool
and Liverpool St Peter's in 1871?...
John Thomas 49 licensed victualler b Pwllheli North Wales
Elizabeth Thomas 35 b Carmarthen S Wales
John Marion Thomas 6 b at sea
Hugh E Thomas 4 months b Liverpool
1 female servant 1 boarder, mariner born Westmoreland
John Marion is in Seaforth (Lancs Seaforth District 9 page 19) in 1901...
wife Elizabeth age 36 born Carmarthenshire
son John D age 1 born Seaforth
daughter Elizabeth A age 8 born Carmarthenshire
So an interesting Carmarthen connection.
The IGI might be helpful -
Elizabeth Powell x 5/Oct/1835 Llangain, Carmarthen d/o Gabriel Powell & Elizabeth
Anthony
Perhaps 1851 Carmarthen St Peter (District 2e page 30)
Lammas Street
Margaret Anthony H Wid 69 formerly washerwoman b Carmarthen
Elizabeth Powell grandchild U 16 dressmaker b Carmarthen
Catharine Leech do U 7 b Monmouth Abergavenny
John Leech do 2 b Carmarthen
Carmarthenshire
Margaret and Elizabeth are also present in 1841 (St Peter's Carmarthen District 10
page 15)
So Margaret's husband possibly dies prior to 1841 - there are no seemingly relevant
wills in the National Library.
Back to the IGI, there is a bapt:
Lammas Street Independent, Carmarthen
1/Jan/1815
Elizabeth Anthony d/o Jno Anthony & Margaret
There are 2 possible marriages on the IGI for Jno Anthony and Margaret - one in 1809
(Margaret David) and one in 1797 (Margaret John).
The Margaret David above appears on Ancestry living in Llangennech so PERHAPS the other is
right?????
There is also a will for a John Anthony Powell, shopkeeper, of Pont y Berem, Llangenderin
[Llangyndeyrn], Carmarthen, 1844 - wife Susannah Sarah Powell, nephew John David Powell.
Don't think there's a connection here.
Yours,
Ian
From: wls-gwynedd-request(a)rootsweb.com
Subject: WLS-GWYNEDD Digest, Vol 6, Issue 23
To: wls-gwynedd(a)rootsweb.com
Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2011 01:01:15 -0600
Today's Topics:
1. Re: WLS-GWYNEDD Digest, Vol 6, Issue 22 (I Thompson)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2011 09:30:58 +0000
From: I Thompson <joscyn(a)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [GWYNEDD] WLS-GWYNEDD Digest, Vol 6, Issue 22
To: <wls-gwynedd(a)rootsweb.com>
Message-ID: <SNT122-W472FD2E6CFAE1D7966D932CDB30(a)phx.gbl>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Dear Ann,
I can't see any relevant entries searching for John Thomas [within 10 words of]
Liverpool in the National LIbrary or John AND Thomas AND Liverpool on Gwynedd Archives
website but recommend you have a look yourself.
Liverpool University Library is worth contacting as there may be records including MA
theses on Liverpool Welsh (I remember there is at least one MA thesis with letters from
the USA to all over Wales, for example, not relevant to you but an example of what might
be available).
Liverpool Central Library has an archive and they might at least be able to indicate
whether they have John Thomas on a card index.
There seem to have been a couple of John Thomas in Liverpool in the late 19th century -
one a congregational minister, one a photographer at Cambrian Galleries.
There is a book Liverpool Welsh or Liverpool Welsh Methodists, I think. I am sure many
others.
Parishes bordering Porth Neigwl are (from West to East) Llanfaelrhys, Rhiw,
Llandegwnning, Llanengan. It is interesting to note the use of this name in one child,
isn't it?
It may be worth looking at National Library wills for these parishes for men dying 1830
to 1858 called [forename or surname] Thomas just in case one mentions a John Thomas at
sea.
It may be worthwhile looking at these parish registers BUT in 1820 there was a very
active religious revival meaning families might have allegiance to any one of a number of
chapels including quite distant from their homes (Pen Lon, Pwllheli, I remember, has
baptism entries from all the surrounds as far as Aberdaron). So just checking PRs will not
be exhaustive.
If you have a definite date of birth from the register ticket (depending how sceptical
you are about the date and place) you could feasibly check all PRs and chapels for 1-4
weeks after and build up a list of possibilities - it would be interesting to know how
many would end up on such a list (maybe many 10s of names). Of course, children were
baptised later sometimes, and some records will be incomplete or missing.
Hm don't know how to help otherwise. It might be that he remains a bit of a mystery.
At least you have a general place - Pwllheli and Porth Neigwl. That's more than some!
Yours,
Ian
> Hi Ian, many thanks for your reply. It was with the help of Reg.Davies
> that I found John Thomas's career at sea. His register ticket gives his
> date and place of birth and place of residence whilst on land.
>
> In 1865 he is "married" and their first child is born at sea on route to
> Shanghai from Australia (apparently) I have a copy of the child's baptism
> in Shanghai. He is named as John Marion Thomas after the ship Marion on
> which he was born. 1867 the second child is born en route from New York to
> Liverpool. This one named Thomas Malta Neigwl Thomas - the Malta being
> after the ship on which he was born, again I have a copy of the announcement
> of his birth. I am told that Neigwl means hells mouth and is a bay
> not far from Pwllheli. There is now a hotel named Neigwl nearby. The
> third son was born in Liverpool, I have a copy of his birth certificate.
> 4th son also born Liverpool 1873. 5th son probably born Liverpool,1869,
> died 1870,
> 6th son born c1870, died 1872 liverpool.
>
> There is a family grave in Anfield cemetery and some of the information
> has been gained from the MIs and the burial notes of all the people in the
> grave.
>
> The 1871 census shows the family in Liverpool, John Thomas being a
> licensed vitualler. 1881 he is still in Liverpool as a master mariner with his
> wife and two sons. John Thomas died 1888 in Liverpool.
>
> His wife was Elizabeth Anthony Powell, but no marriage found. There is an
> entry on free bmd in 1869 but they are not married to each other so
> obviously a different couple. They may have married at sea or in Australia,
> perhaps we will never know.
>
> I have not found him on any of the other censuses, perhaps he was at sea
> somewhere else in the world as he was a cabin boy in 1830 and went on to
> become a master mariner.
>
> Thanks again
>
> Ann
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