Thanks so much for looking Sharon. Sadly I don't think the first two
records from 1841/51 are the same family as the census records from
1861, which I have also, and shows the first child born in the family I
know well as my great-great grandparents. The 1841 and 1851 families
you mention don't seem to fit by age, children or occupation - Thomas
is persistently a butcher/farmer subsequently, and no mention of
shoemaking.
I'm told that the census for 1841 for Cefn Mawr was completely
destroyed, and the only record for the 1851 one is unindexed and
only at the Clywd Family History Centre - so I'm told, but I can't
think of any way to get access as I can't travel. If anyone has any
contacts in the Clwyd FHS I'd be very grateful! Nothing available
on their website except the webmaster, who I've mailed, but I don't
want to be a pain. Searching the 1851 census in Cefn is vital to
tracking the previous families, as Thomas Griffiths and Mary Jane
Edwards married in the late 1850s. 1851 would give me the answers!
Paul
On Fri, 16 Jun 2006, sharon.brown2(a)tesco.net wrote:
> Hello Paul, I have found the family on 1841, 1851 and 1861
census. Details are as follows:
1841 (HO 107/1406/1)
Living at Henllan St.
Thomas Griffiths age 35 Shoemaker
Anne (wife) age 45
Sarah age 40 Dress Maker
Mary (daughter) age 9
Emma (daughter) age 7
David (son) age 5
Thomas (son) age 3
--------------------------------------------
1851 (HO107/2507)
Gwammog(?) Road
Thomas Griffiths 46 Shoemaker
Anne 54
David (s) 15 Shoemaker
Thomas (s) 12 Shoemaker
Margaret (d) 9
----------------------------------------------
1861
(RG9/4282)
Cefn Mawr
Thomas Griffiths 22 Butcher
Mary Jane 23
Mary E (d) 17 months
----------------------------------------------
I have enclosed the ref. no's for each census so that if you go to a library or a
record office, you maybe able to access the records from there. I hope the above info is
the family you are looking for
best wishes
Sharon
> From: P S Mitchell <psm(a)missprint.org>
> Date: 2006/06/15 Thu PM 02:52:49 BST
> To: WLS-DENBIGHSHIRE-L(a)rootsweb.com
> Subject: [DEN] Cefn Mawr 1851 lookups, and Froncysyllte advice?
>
> I sent the following the RootsWeb Denbighshire message board which
> says it's gatewayed to this list - but it hasn't turned up here or in
> the archive. I hope no-one therefore minds me sending a copy here too.
>
> I've been researching my Cefn Mawr roots for some time from a
> distance, and just read the thread in the message board from May
> concerning the missing censuses for Cefn Mawr, which sheds some light
> on my difficulties. I'm trying to locate my great-great-grandparents
> families before they were married - both from Cefn Mawr according to
> later censuses - and they married in the late 1850s. I'm wondering
> if anyone can suggest how I can follow this up in the light of the
> missing census information, and if anyone local can fill in some of
> the many shadows in my understanding of the locality below, particularl
> with a question about Froncysyllte at the bottom of this email.
>
> Husband: Thomas GRIFFITHS b abt 1839, butcher and farmer, who briefly
> moved out to Garth Draw/Farm to raise children in the 1870s before
> returning to Cefn Mawr at 33 High St. in 1881 and 66 High St., also
> marked as "White Horse Inn" (I think he was a publican too - my
> great-aunt remembered the name Grosvenor Arms also) on the 1891 census.
> In 1901 he is widowed at Vale View Shop, Rock Lane, still a butcher.
>
> Wife: Mary Jane EDWARDS, b abt 1837, who died sometime before 1901. Much
> Edwards family tradition exists in the family, including a corroborated
> story of her breaking into the Cae Coch graveyard to open a coffin of a
> child she wasn't sure about! There still exists this rather weathered
> Edwards family monument (one of only a couple of large ones standing I'm
> told) in the graveyard on Cae Coch, of which I have been kindly given
> photos that I am trying to decipher for dates. I'm unsure whether this
> is just a graveyard for the Zion/Seion Chapel, if they are the same
> chapel, etc., but I'm trying to find the link from names there to Mary
> Jane - likely to be her parents at first guess. I'm also repeatedly told
> of an ill-defined link to the James Coster Edwards family of Brick and
> Tile company fame who lived in Trevor Hall, but I've so far been unable
> to work out the link exactly - a cousin maybe, possibly by marriage. It
> seems probably from censuses that Garth Farm was intimately linked to
> Trevor Hall earlier in the century.
>
> I'm unable to travel and a long way away so unfortunately can't visit
> the Clwyd FHS centre: is there any other way I could get access to 1851
> census records? Also I'm not local and know very little of the area
> apart from what reading and map-gazing I can do, so if anyone can shed
> light on any of the geographical details above I may have missed, that
> would be so useful.
>
> Children of Thomas GRIFFITHS and Mary Jane EDWARDS:
> * Mary Ellen ca 1858
> * Frances(s) 1867
> * Emily 1870
> * Minnie 1873
> * Rosanna H 1875
> * Edward T 1879
>
> Possible parents of Mary Jane Edwards from inscription: Thomas b abt
> 1810, Stone Merchant of Cefn Mawr, Frances b abt 1814. Other children
> on the gravestone include: Henry b 1834, died 1870, Edwin b abt 1847,
> died age 7, and an unreadable daughter who died at the age of 1.
>
> Secondly, in trying to trace Thomas's line, I've just found a family of
> Griffiths in Froncysyllte in 1851 who seem to correspond well: the
> father John b abt 1805 was a butcher, and seems to have progressively
> sent off each of his sons to either work on wealthy farms in Cysyllte,
> or who become butchers - 3 or 4 of his children do so, including a
> Robert Griffiths who seems to do very well as one in Cefn
> Bychan/Newbridge, and spawns yet another generation of butchers. The
> ages and details match well for Thomas matching the youngest brother in
> this family and of course the family profession matches - but he always
> describes his birthplace on censuses as either Ruabon or Cefn Mawr. I
> know nothing of the geography - is it likely that someone born in Fron
> would be happy to call their birthplace Cefn Mawr if they lived there
> decades later, or in the 1880s would they still be seen as very distinct
> towns?
>
> Any advice, geographical corrections, or colouring in of the shadows on
> the connections between places gratefully received! Also, any advice on
> how I may be able to search the 1851 census for the parents' previous
> families would be much appreciated.
>
> Paul Mitchell
>
>
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