Hi
Thank you for your most detailed e-mail I am beginning to think you are right with the
connection to Dafydd Ffoulkes b 1651 we have him d 1691, he had a brother called Humphrey
(whose second daughter Jane married a John Salusbury of Plas Issa in 1644) just for
information. Also Humphrey is mentioned in David's Will which you kindly linked me
into. and the Will was from Carwedfynydd which links this family to the Dafydd in the
Community Trees. We just need to find this Tydyr Ffoulkes. I think Tan y Gaer was
mentioned in one of the other Wills I think Edward Ffoulkes one of the sons. Will check
tomorrow, it's getting late.
Regards
Irene
From: 301(a)rcl1.myzen.co.uk
Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2011 21:27:21 +0100
To: wls-denbighshire(a)rootsweb.com
Subject: Re: [DENBIGHSHIRE] Ffoulkes Family Tree - Llannefydd
On 3 Apr 2011, at 06:30, Rol wrote:
> Now you mention the date of death of the David Ffoulkes who interests you -- "D
14.4.1691" -- I think I realise who you mean. Are we talking about David Ffoulkes of
the township of Carwedfynydd in the parish of Llanefydd, and also of Plas Newydd in the
township of Meiriadog and parish of St Asaph? ... This is a link to his will:
>
http://hdl.handle.net/10107/437910
> (NLW ref. SA/1692/40)
> It was written in 1676 and proved in 1692. The inventory of his goods at death was
drawn up on 27 April 1691, which fits quite well with the date you mention. And his widow
(who renounced executorship to allow her son Pierce to become
administrator-with-will-annexed) was indeed called Elizabeth.
On 4 Apr 2011, at 10:16, Irene Smith wrote:
> I feel we are getting close. In David's Will he mentions his wife Elizabeth and
then she revokes the Will in favour of her son Piers. ... The Elizabeth Wynne who was
married to Dafydd Ffoulkes, in the Family Search had a son called Piers.
Yes, I am pretty confident that NLW Will SA/1692/40 is the will of the man to whom I gave
the long name "David Ffoulkes of the township of Carwedfynydd in the parish of
Llanefydd, and also of Plas Newydd in the township of Meiriadog and parish of St
Asaph". I am also reasonably sure that this man is the one whose LDS page link is
http://histfam.familysearch.org/getperson.php?personID=I159667&tree=W... and whose
pedigree appears at Cwtta xxxii-xxxiii, HPF vi 236 and PACF 327. Any PR burial entry at
Llanefydd or St Asaph dated "14.4.1691" for a David Ffoulkes or close variant
will almost certainly be his.
The question in need of resolution is whether this man was the direct-line -- or indeed
collateral -- ancestor of the Tan y Gaer Ffoulkeses who settled land by deed dated 13
March 1693/94 (NLW Coed Coch 1660) and whose subsequent wills and admons were set out in
my post of 13 March 2011. (Nice to have landed right on the deed's anniversary!).
Having the benefit of notes extracted from St Asaph and/or Llanefydd PRs, you are better
placed to answer that question than mailing list subscribers without access to those
registers. In order to put us all on a more equal footing and enable listers to help
effectively, it would be great if you were willing to data-share with us by
copying-&-pasting into the list more of the text of the key PR entries down to the
time of Edward Ffoulkes of Tan y Gaer (d.1755). You have already put up these very useful
extracts,
> Tydyr or Tudur Ffoulkes ... was born 15.2.1676/77 married in St. Asaph had six
children born in Cefn Meiriadog and listed below:
> 1. John D 1715
> 2. Margaret D 28.3.1695
> 3. Elizabeth B 14.8.1702?
> 4. Modeline or Modlen B 4.3.1703/4
> 5. Ann B 1710
> 6. Abel B 8.2.1715 - This is our link who married an Elizabeth Piers of Bodelwyddan
and mentioned the important status marker that Tudur was given the prefix Mr -- so as far
as he and his offspring are concerned, we are well along the road (was the family's
abode ever amplified beyond Cefn Meriadog and how, if at all, were they ever linked with
Tan y Gaer?). But what was the full text (and parish) of Tudur's 15.2.1676/77 baptism,
to offer a view of his parents and their abode -- and do you have ditto for any siblings
of his? Plus what PR entries are there for Llowarch and his son John and (presumed)
grandson Edward? The parent descriptions in baptisms can be very revealing, as I am sure
you would agree.
At the moment this thread -- so to speak -- is missing some of the key strands required
to bind these people one to the other. And the central question remains exactly as you so
you rightly put it in your post of 3 April at 20:15 hrs. BST: "What was the
connection between Tan y Gaer and Plas Newydd?".
To refer again to your message this morning, you comment that "We don't have
Piers as one of the children from this marriage of David and Elizabeth". As you will
have seen, the pedigrees seem unanimous in assigning Piers an implied birth date in 1667
or 1668. One possible explanation for not finding a baptism for him could be that he was
baptised at St Asaph towards the end of that date range, because the Williams and
Watts-Williams guide entitled The Parish Registers of Wales says that there is a gap in
the registers of that parish between 1668 and 1677; and apparently there is also a gap in
the BTs after "1667-68".
Sorry to pepper you with questions -- but I and other readers are obviously still in
"catch-up mode" in comparison with your own detailed knowledge of these
Ffoulkeses!
Rol
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