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Hi,
I have traced a branch of my family back to my G G G G Grandparents. The 1851 census says they lived in the house called Bryntirion, in Bryneglwys. This house then stays in the family, and the last record of it I have is my Taid being born there in 1921. Is there anyone with connections to this family, or with any information on this house/family?
Generation 1:
John Jones (b. 1792, Bryneglwys) m. Jane Jones (b. 1797, Llandiello, Denbighshire)
1851 census: Bryntirion, Bryneglwys. John is a shoemaker. As are his sons Thomas and Aenneas.
Generation 2 - children of John and Jane Jones:
Thomas Jones (b. 1823, Bryneglwys)
Aenneas Jones (b. 1831, Bryneglwys / d. 1891-1901?) m. Mary Jones (b. 1836, Llanelidan)
Marry Jones (b. 1841, Bryneglwys)
Aenneas' name is sometimes misread as Alneas, Almeas, Aemmeas, Ammeas,... he went onto be head of the household in Bryntirion.
The 1881 census: Bryntirion, Bryneglwys
The 1891 census: Bryntirion, Bryneglwys. It says that when Aenneas' wife died he employed a housekeeper - Mary Jane Edwards - the same as listed below.
Generation 3 - children of Aenneas and Mary Jones:
David Jones (b. 1860, Bryneglwys) m.16 May 1892 in Llanelidan to Mary Jane Edwards (b. 1870, Llanelidan)
census 1901: Bryntirion, Bryneglwys. David carries on the family job and is a shoemaker.
Generation 4 - children of David and Mary Jane Jones:
Mary Elizabeth Jones (b. 8 Mar 1893, Bryntirion, Bryneglwys / d. 24 Jan 1927 Tranmere) m. 25 Aug 1920 in Bryneglwys to Evan Hugh Griffith (b. 1891 Saron, Bethel / d. 1957 Bangor)
Edith C. Jones (b. 1897, Bryneglwys)
Hilda Jones (b. after 1901?)
Generation 5 - children of Mary Elizabeth and Evan Hugh Griffith:
David Alun Griffith (b. 8 Feb 1921, Bryntirion, Bryneglwys / d. 1977 Henllan) m. 30 Dec 1947 in Denbigh to Rhoda Campbell (b. 1926, Co. Down / d. 2004 Denbigh)
That was the last time I've heard of the house in the records for my family.
Generation 6 - children of David Alun and Rhoda Griffith:
Pauline Campbell Griffith (b. 23 Sept 1948, Denbigh) m. 27 Jul 1972 in Henllan to David Pryce Morris (b. 15 Apr 1939)
Maureen Campbell Griffith (b. 23 Sept 1948, Denbigh)
David Campbell Griffith (b. 15 Nov 1950, Denbigh)
Generation 7 - children of Pauline Campbell and David Pryce Morris:
Victoria Pryce Morris (b. 31 Aug 1975)
Elizabeth Pryce Morris (b. 2 Aug 1977)
David Jonathan Pryce Morris (b. 5 May 1981)
As for Mary Jane Edwards' family... she was born in Llanelidan. Her parents were Thomas Edwards (b. 1841, Llanelidan) and Elizabeth Edwards (b. 1843, Conway). They have 5 sons listed on the 1881 census - John Lewis Edwards (b. 1865, Llanelidan), Thomas Henry Edwards (b. 1867, Llanelidan), William Oliver Edwards (b. 1874, Llanelidan), Llewelyn Conway Edwards (b. 1878, Llanelidan), and Edward Arthur Edwards (b. 1880, Llanelidan). Also 2 daughters including Mary Jane Edwards (b. 1870, Llanelidan), and Edith Anne Edwards (b. 1876, Llanelidan).
If there is anyone out there with connections to Bryntirion, or other information about the family please reply to this email. If you could search any of the census that I am missing, 1861, 1871, and pre-1851, looking for Bryntirion, Bryneglwys, or for John Jones (b. 1792, Bryneglwys) or his wife I would be grateful!!
Thanks!
Jonathan
Dear Tali
Many thanks for your response to my email. You have certainly done your
homework on the Foulkes family of Bury, Lancashire.
I was aware of sisters Frances and Margaret from the 1871 census RG10/4020
Folio 32 Page 26. They are described as cotton weavers.
The Margaret I'm seeking was a domestic servant in October 1871 when she
gave birth to an illegitimate baby
in Patricroft workhouse. Patricroft is very close to Salford so maybe she
is one and the same.
The baby was placed with guardians in Abergele, not far from Llysfaen where
William Foulkes originated before moving to Manchester.
My problem is finding proof, because there is another Margaret living some
10 miles away from where the photograph I have was taken.
There are several other ladies with the same name but the two abovementioned
are my main suspects. I don't ever expect to solve the problem, but trying
,certainly exercises the brain!
Regards
Harold Foulkes
----- Original Message -----
From: "Talisman Barbosa" <ttbarbosa(a)comcast.net>
To: <WLS-DENBIGHSHIRE-L(a)rootsweb.com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 12, 2004 6:12 AM
Subject: RE: [DEN] Margaret Foulkes
> I have a Margaret Foulkes, born July - September 1848, in Manchester. She
> was the daughter of William Foulkes, born 1820 - 1821, Lysfan, Caenarvon,
> Wales, husband of Margaret [surname unknown], born 1825 - 1826, in
> Liverpool. The couple had another daughter, Frances Foulkes, born 1846 -
> 1849, Manchester. The younger Margaret, perhaps the woman in your
> photograph, married Abraham Whittaker, 16 April 1871, in Salford,
Lancaster.
> She outlived Abraham by some years. She was listed in the 1901 Census, at
> 105 New Paradice Square, in Moorside, Bury, Lancashire, so I do not have
her
> death date. Abraham and Margaret had five sons.
>
> I regret that I do not have a photograph of this Margaret Foulkes. Do you
> think she might be the same woman?
>
> Regards,
> Tali Barbosa
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Harold Foulkes [mailto:harold.foulkes@btopenworld.com]
> Sent: Monday, October 11, 2004 12:40 PM
> To: WLS-DENBIGHSHIRE-L(a)rootsweb.com
> Subject: [DEN] Margaret Foulkes
>
> Dear Listers
> My interest is in identifying a relative Margaret Foulkes who would have
> been born approximately 1835-1850.
> I have a photograph of her taken in Ffestiniog in 1871 when she would be
> 20-30 years old.
> My searches reveal some 28 Margaret Foulkes living in North Wales,
> Lancashire and Cheshire during this period.
> So far it has not been possible to identify this lady.
> If anyone has a photograph of an ancestor who's maiden name was Margaret
> Foulkes, I would forward a copy photograph for comparison.
> Regards
> Harold Foulkes
>
>
> ==== WLS-DENBIGHSHIRE Mailing List ====
> For the answers to many of the "Frequently Asked Questions"
> about Denbighshire - see the GENUKI web pages at:
> http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/DEN/
>
>
>
> ==== WLS-DENBIGHSHIRE Mailing List ====
> The official Web pages for the Church in Wales are at :
> http://www.churchinwales.org.uk/
>
Harold, I wonder if you can eliminate "my" Margaret Foulkes, since she
married in April of 1871 it is not likely that she gave birth to an
illegitimate baby in October of that year. Perhaps they were distantly
related but I don't believe they were the same woman.
Perhaps that helps you feel more confident about narrowing down your
prospects.
Good luck with your quest.
Tali
-----Original Message-----
From: Harold Foulkes [mailto:harold.foulkes@btopenworld.com]
Sent: Wednesday, October 13, 2004 8:08 AM
To: WLS-DENBIGHSHIRE-L(a)rootsweb.com
Subject: Re: [DEN] Margaret Foulkes
Dear Tali
Many thanks for your response to my email. You have certainly done your
homework on the Foulkes family of Bury, Lancashire.
I was aware of sisters Frances and Margaret from the 1871 census RG10/4020
Folio 32 Page 26. They are described as cotton weavers.
The Margaret I'm seeking was a domestic servant in October 1871 when she
gave birth to an illegitimate baby
in Patricroft workhouse. Patricroft is very close to Salford so maybe she
is one and the same.
The baby was placed with guardians in Abergele, not far from Llysfaen where
William Foulkes originated before moving to Manchester.
My problem is finding proof, because there is another Margaret living some
10 miles away from where the photograph I have was taken.
There are several other ladies with the same name but the two abovementioned
are my main suspects. I don't ever expect to solve the problem, but trying
,certainly exercises the brain!
Regards
Harold Foulkes
----- Original Message -----
From: "Talisman Barbosa" <ttbarbosa(a)comcast.net>
To: <WLS-DENBIGHSHIRE-L(a)rootsweb.com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 12, 2004 6:12 AM
Subject: RE: [DEN] Margaret Foulkes
> I have a Margaret Foulkes, born July - September 1848, in Manchester. She
> was the daughter of William Foulkes, born 1820 - 1821, Lysfan, Caenarvon,
> Wales, husband of Margaret [surname unknown], born 1825 - 1826, in
> Liverpool. The couple had another daughter, Frances Foulkes, born 1846 -
> 1849, Manchester. The younger Margaret, perhaps the woman in your
> photograph, married Abraham Whittaker, 16 April 1871, in Salford,
Lancaster.
> She outlived Abraham by some years. She was listed in the 1901 Census, at
> 105 New Paradice Square, in Moorside, Bury, Lancashire, so I do not have
her
> death date. Abraham and Margaret had five sons.
>
> I regret that I do not have a photograph of this Margaret Foulkes. Do you
> think she might be the same woman?
>
> Regards,
> Tali Barbosa
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Harold Foulkes [mailto:harold.foulkes@btopenworld.com]
> Sent: Monday, October 11, 2004 12:40 PM
> To: WLS-DENBIGHSHIRE-L(a)rootsweb.com
> Subject: [DEN] Margaret Foulkes
>
> Dear Listers
> My interest is in identifying a relative Margaret Foulkes who would have
> been born approximately 1835-1850.
> I have a photograph of her taken in Ffestiniog in 1871 when she would be
> 20-30 years old.
> My searches reveal some 28 Margaret Foulkes living in North Wales,
> Lancashire and Cheshire during this period.
> So far it has not been possible to identify this lady.
> If anyone has a photograph of an ancestor who's maiden name was Margaret
> Foulkes, I would forward a copy photograph for comparison.
> Regards
> Harold Foulkes
>
>
> ==== WLS-DENBIGHSHIRE Mailing List ====
> For the answers to many of the "Frequently Asked Questions"
> about Denbighshire - see the GENUKI web pages at:
> http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/DEN/
>
>
>
> ==== WLS-DENBIGHSHIRE Mailing List ====
> The official Web pages for the Church in Wales are at :
> http://www.churchinwales.org.uk/
>
==== WLS-DENBIGHSHIRE Mailing List ====
There is an excellent "tutorial" on Civil Registration at :
http://home.clara.net/dixons/Certificates/indexbd.htm
Dear Listers
My interest is in identifying a relative Margaret Foulkes who would have been born approximately 1835-1850.
I have a photograph of her taken in Ffestiniog in 1871 when she would be 20-30 years old.
My searches reveal some 28 Margaret Foulkes living in North Wales, Lancashire and Cheshire during this period.
So far it has not been possible to identify this lady.
If anyone has a photograph of an ancestor who's maiden name was Margaret Foulkes, I would forward a copy photograph for comparison.
Regards
Harold Foulkes
When Two Worlds Collide: By Brian Zelley
The year was 1901 when Bradley's Edward TILSTON would marry Jane PARKER
in Wrexham. Although much is known about Edward TILSTON and the
Tilston Families of Bradley - Gresford - Llay and other towns and
villages of North Wales and Cheshire, the PARKER family history is more
difficult to chase from Shropshire to Wrexham.
Edward TILSTON is the son of Joseph TILSTON & Annie DYKES and a grandson
of Richard TILSTON with other ancestors with such names as JONES, WARD
and LLOYD. In 1881, Edward was still residing in Bradley along with
siblings
such as Richard Tom and Ada TILSTON.
Some of the neighbors in his childhood days would include the William &
Harriet TILSTON family, Timothy THOMAS (the bricklayer), Richard &
Elizabeth LEWIS, and Edward & Jane FINCHETT.
It is thought by some, that Jane PARKER was the daughter of Jesse
PARKER & Elizabeth ALLERTON from the Overton, Ellesmere region of the
Shropshire border area. If so, the family would move to Crescent Place
in Wrexham.
During, Jane's childhood, Wrexham names of Crescent would include the
likes of Edward & Ellen PARRY, the widow Ann HICKLEY, David &Ann OWEN,
and Patrick (the plasterer) BRAN from Stockport. Jesse PARKER was a
slaterer and plasterer. His son Richard PARKER would also become a
plasterer. Some neighbors from Crescent Terrace in Wrexham were
William & Martha PHILLIPS, Thomas CROSS from Overton, and Bill (the
butcher) JONES.
Of interest, at No. 20 Crescent Place resided the Thomas & Ellen PARKER
family. Thomas was a blacksmith from Flint while Ellen PARKER came
from Shrewsbury.
One mystery is the case of Mrs Elizabeth PARKER (nee ALLERTON) was the
birthplace. In the 1881 Census, the place stated was "Farm Bridge".
So, where is Farm Bridge?
Today, there could be a connection of the folks of Bradley and Crescent
Place with the "Golden Lion" on High Street, Wrexham!
Okay we now have two head working on getting our family fact/fictions in order
We do know that
Elizabeth Jones b. 1805 Wales
*m. 27 Apr 1825 Ruabon Parrish John Griffiths b. 1799 n. Wales botp This couple and the three boys arrived Baltimore 1829. I still don't have a name of a ship. But I found information putting five people with the same stats on a ship arriving in Baltimore 1829
**three son b. Wales bapt this parrish
***Thomas Jones b. 1807-1808 Wales
*m Sarah ? b. Wales
***I know of two sons Robert/John J. Jones were to have b. Wales. It is believed this family did not come to the US until maybe as late as 1850
Thomas/Sarah live on what is referred to as the little house of the John/Elizabeth (nee Jones) Griffiths' farm 1870. 1880 Thomas is living at the larger farm with a nephew and his family. This property remains in our line until 1975 preserving a great deal of paperwork and family items. John/Elizabeth live in the larger home.
***Robert has at least one son and leaves Jackson Co OH to the Denver Co. I have photo of his son in front of business. The other son is John J. Jones who fights in the civil war. Is a prosecuting attorney for Jackson Co OH for a # of yrs. I have a signed photo of him in uniform. He is built like Elizabeth.
****now there is to be Mary Jones b. abt 1810. She is to be my link to this singer James Sauvage. We have letters from. I know he vacationed at the farm. It appears that a Mary Jones could have been his mother. I am cking out information I was sent stating there was a bapt of a Robert Sauvage 6th Oct 1836: Robert SALVAGE born 1st Aug 1836. The only problem with this is the dates of the possible brothers. I have an original obit for James Sauvage and it has his dob 8 May 1851 Rhosllanerchrugog N. Wales. James Sauvage the well known Welsh Tenor m. Eleanor (nee Lewis) d/oLlew Llwyfo (a widely known Welsh poet) he died at his residence in Newark NJ 27 Nov ?. His credits are very good in his obituary. I know he traveled bk/forth from Wales to the US.
The age difference between Robert/James bothers me, but not a great deal. We have large age differences in our families. We have always heard that James Sauvage was connected via the Elizabeth Jones and this certainly would make sense.
Now if we could find parents matching Elizabeth (nee Jones) Griffiths b. 1805/Thomas Jones b. 1807-1808 and then a Mary (nee Jones) Sauvage 1810 we would really be getting to where we could think we were on the right track..
Pat Jones
riverrat111(a)earthlink.net
Dear List
Looking for my g.g.grandmother Ellen Evans born circa 1873. She married
John Rogers in Llanasa Parish Church on 21st May 1900. Father's name on the
marriage certificate was David Ellis Evans (Labourer) but it did not state
where she was from or her residence at the time of marriage. There is some
confusion over her real name as on the marriage certificate and on her death
certificate it says Helen; in the 1901 census it says Ellen. I am looking
for her roots. Have not been able to find her on 1881 or 1891 census. I
believe she may have been from Ruthin. Does anyone know of a David Ellis
Evans (died circa 1918, Denbighshire)? Does anyone have an Ellen/Helen
Evans in their tree?
regards
Nicola
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