Ellen,
As I stated in my last letter to you. I was not after starting any
fights here, I was after answers to my questions. I have read and re-read
my letter to Tina and I do not see where I am attacking her. I asked her
some questions, stated concerns and asked a few more questions. So, I want
to Thank you for proving my point about misunderstanding what someone has
wrote.
I understand the fine line you are being forced to walk due to the
situation you are currently in. However, we have battled heads before and
again, as I stated in my letter, I am not wanting or willing to fall into
this with you again. Use your situation any way you need to in order to
help you, just don't think I will be the one to help you get it. You
certainly have the right to state your opinion, just as I have the right to
ignore it. Just to save you the time, due to the condition of my father, I
simply don't and won't have the time to deal with you. Most of my day is at
the hospital with him. So by all means, voice your opinion all you want,
even though it was wrong in my opinion, just know I will not take the time
at this time to read them or respond anymore.
Debie
At 02:44 AM 7/31/2003 -0500, you wrote:
Hello All,
I am not going to get into personalities here. Everyone has a right to
their opinion and has a right to speak it. I am not refuting that. I
also commend those that are seeking additional information from Tina in
regards to why certain individuals are now moderated. However, it did not
come across to me, Debie, that you were questioning if you too were going
to be moderated. Instead it appeared you were almost attacking Tina's
response to the situation.
It is my opinion, when a person has been charged with the responsibility
of an elected official of an organization, the manner to which they give
their opinion does matter. When one has the designation of a leader, one
has to watch what one says and how one says it or others will think it is
okay to act that way.
As a mother, I am sure you have been the victim of the monkey see monkey
do scenerio. One boy sees the other boy doing something a certain way and
assumes its okay to do it that way so mimics the first boy. Sooner or
later there are crayon marks all over the wall or the floor has just been
waxed with chocolate pudding.
If the leaders of an organization are "dissing" the organization and
suggesting to members ways of mutiny and unqualified reason for distrust,
what is to stop the distention?
Somewhere a line has to be drawn, and as our SC and list administrator,
Tina has a responsibility to use her best judgement to draw that line and
figure out when it was crossed. She did so with Tim and Jan. If I
crossed the line, I would expect to be moderated as well.
I believe it important for the list administrator to inform us when
someone is being moderated. If we don't see posts for a week we may
wonder why it is people disappeared and are not posting.
At some point the insanity has to stop. By insanity I mean this
underlying fear that everyone is out to get everyone else and there is
some hidden meaning in the actions, reactions of people. We are all good
people, in this for the same good purpose. If you can't trust your other
teammates and play as a team, then what is the purpose of wearing the team
name?
I suspect if the list administrator here moderated people in what we see
as "without warning" there is most likely something we aren't
seeing. Either similar situation(s) have happened on other lists amongst
these people, or perhaps they were emailed privately but as it was
private, we didn't see the posts.
But of course this is all personal opinion, which is copyritten by virture
of me writing it..and it will be posted to rootsweb for a period of
forever. It will probably be copied, sold, spindled, folded and mutilated
too. But that is another matter entirely.<G>
Ellen-
>From: Debie + Joe <sebring(a)excel.net>
>Reply-To: WIGEN-L(a)rootsweb.com
>To: WIGEN-L(a)rootsweb.com
>Subject: Re: [WIGEN-L] Moderated members
>Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 01:07:44 -0500
>
>Ellen,
> Perhaps Tim is not trying to be misleading in any way. Perhaps
> he is stating it as he receives or understands it. I am well aware how
> moderation works and I also know despite what the rootsweb site may say,
> if someone complains about being moderated, rootsweb will e-mail the
> list maintenance person and ask what the problem is. As I stated before,
> it has to be a threat or swearing. Maybe perhaps even if a person
> verbally attacks one person with unrealistic comments that would offend.
> However, Tina stated the person Tim referred to was not subbed to the
> list, there fore I believe it was not his intention to hurt the feelings
> of this person or to belittle them.
> I perceived Tina's letter as a note from mother telling her
> children they really did something wrong. I think there would have
> really been no reason to post to the mailing list that they are being
> moderated for any reason. That should have been sent private to them as
> it doesn't interfere with any of the other members to the list if they
> are moderated, other then to say there is no real freedom of speech here then.
> As to offense about a comment, you have every right to state
> your discontent to the statement, just as much right as Tim has to make
> the statement, that is what Freedom of speech is all about. You do not
> know if he was purposely trying to mislead, or was stating his opinion
> as he perceives it. Right or wrong, he should have the right. Ellen, how
> would you feel if you were moderated because you didn't like someone's
> opinion? There really is no difference in what happened here, not in my
> opinion. What if Tina would add you to the moderation list because of
> your opinion written to me?
>
> I see no reason to argue about this, as it stated before, I had
> a few questions, I need to know what comments will be moderated for
> everyone or if it is just certain people. I also stated my opinion,
> which in theory I should have the right to do, no matter if everyone
> agrees or nobody agrees with me at all.
>
> I just don't think it was handled incorrectly in any instance
> and since she is a leader, I feel Tina should have handled this with
> more tact and respect. The only thing I see here is Tina is letting
> everyone know that if she doesn't like it, she has all the control over
> you. Perhaps if she would have e-mailed Tim and Jan privately and asked
> them about these comments, maybe they would have found the content was
> misleading. It has happened to people before, a few words were placed in
> the wrong order or are missing and the letter that was meant to be a
> general non-argumentative letter, has turned into something else. I am
> curious if she just added them to the list of needing her consent to
> e-mail for a week or if she did contact them privately to attempt to set
> this straight? Actually I don't even need to know if this was done in
> private as to the attempt, but I do feel the need to know what
> guidelines she is going to use or are already using to decide who will
> be moderated and why. I would like to make sure I am not moderated for
> just writing my opinion and not intending to hurt anyone.
>
>
>
> Debie Blindauer
>
> Calumet & Sheboygan Counties
>
>At 12:38 AM 7/31/2003 -0500, you wrote:
>>I agree that it is nice to be informed, however when the information
>>comes with negative tones and sometimes is not factual it causes
>>discontent among the members. Especially when the leadership of the
>>organization is presenting the informaton.
>>
>>As elected members of the advisory board, Jan and Tim have accepted the
>>responsibility to serve as a good example of the guidelines and
>>standards of The USGenWeb Project.
>>
>>Debie, as list administrator, Tina does have the right to monitor all
>>posts and determines the guidelines for the list. She also has the
>>right to intervene to resolve problems or disputes that are detrimental
>>to the list. (
http://helpdesk.rootsweb.com/listadmins/duties.html) If
>>she feels something is going the wrong direction, she has the
>>responsibility to do something about it.
>>
>>Perhaps a warning could have come first, perhaps it did and we just
>>didn't hear it.
>>
>>Moderation does not mean they cannot post to the list. It means that
>>the list administrator gets the post first before it is posted to the list.
>>
>>As a member of the BRC I personally take offense at Tim's statement
>>reagrding the intentions of BRC. He was not an active participant in
>>any of the discussions of the BRC and therefore has no authority to
>>speak as if he knows what the intent is. Because he is an AB member he
>>has presumed authority and people will accept his statements as fact
>>without really understanding that he has no basis for his statements.
>>
>>How can the membership here make a sound judgement for themselves if the
>>information they are receiving is spoken without fact?
>>
>>Ellen-
>>
>>>From: "Shari Milks" <2skeeter(a)charter.net>
>>>Reply-To: WIGEN-L(a)rootsweb.com
>>>To: WIGEN-L(a)rootsweb.com
>>>Subject: Re: [WIGEN-L] Moderated members
>>>Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 23:52:50 -0700
>>>
>>>I back Deb up on this. Freedom of speech is first and foremost. A person
>>>should be allow to speak what they think and that includes making other
>>>people aware of what's going on so they can look into it and judge for
>>>themselves what happened.
>>>
>>>----- Original Message -----
>>>From: "Debie + Joe" <sebring(a)excel.net>
>>>To: <WIGEN-L(a)rootsweb.com>
>>>Sent: Wednesday, July 30, 2003 9:47 PM
>>>Subject: Re: [WIGEN-L] Moderated members
>>>
>>>
>>> > Tina,
>>> >
>>> > I have read the note that seems to be from both Tim and Jan. I guess I
>>> > missed why they are being moderated. Can I ask what happened to
>>> freedom of
>>> > speech? If the people he is talking about aren't subbed to the list,
>>> then
>>> > how do they know they are being brought up in an e-mail? I guess,
>>> you can
>>> > moderate me as well now if you feel the need. I believe that freedom of
>>> > speech should be as it is, freedom. Actually you are not the owner
>>> of this
>>> > mailing list, your just the caretaker of it. Did they receive a warning
>>> > that if this didn't stop they would be moderated or was this just
done
>>> > because they are Representatives? Are you aware they can complain to
>>> > Rootsweb about being moderated and you would have to prove they did
>>> > something against the rules of mailing lists, which is usually
>>> containing
>>> > swearing or threats.
>>> >
>>> > I just think this whole thing is getting way out of hand here and that
>>> > everyone should have the right to speak their piece as long as it
isn't
>>> > swearing or threatening,
>>> >
>>> > My 2 cents worth,
>>> >
>>> > Debie Blindauer
>>> >
>>> > Calumet & Sheboygan Counties
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > ==== WIGEN Mailing List ====
>>> > Celebrate Wisconsin!
>>> > Visit the Washburn County WIGenWeb Project Pages
>>> >
http://www.rootsweb.com/~wiwashbu/
>>> >
>>>
>>>
>>>==== WIGEN Mailing List ====
>>>Celebrate Wisconsin!
>>>Visit the Trempealeau County WIGenWeb Project Pages
>>>http://www.rootsweb.com/~witrempe/
>>
>>_________________________________________________________________
>>STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE*
>>http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail
>>
>>
>>==== WIGEN Mailing List ====
>>Celebrate Wisconsin!
>>Visit the Waupaca County WIGenWeb Project Pages
>>http://www.rootsweb.com/~wiwaupac/index.htm
>
>
>
>
>==== WIGEN Mailing List ====
>Celebrate Wisconsin!
>Visit the Walworth County WIGenWeb Project Pages
>http://www.rootsweb.com/~wiwalwor/
_________________________________________________________________
The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE*
http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail
==== WIGEN Mailing List ====
Celebrate Wisconsin!
Visit the Washburn County WIGenWeb Project Pages
http://www.rootsweb.com/~wiwashbu/