Thanks for your replies. But I am still confused -- we Americans are easily
confused about Royal lines.
First, in your follow-up, you indicate that "Seisyllt was the GREAT
grandson of Hywel Dda." I assume you meant Llywelyn ap Seisyll, not Seisyll
himself?
Second, you suggest a line from Llywelyn ap Seisyll to Hywel Dda as
follows: Llewellyn "being the son of Prawst ach Elisedd ap Rhodri" ap
Hywell Dda. Since I have not found this lineage before, I was wondering if
you could suggest a source.
I have not found any sources which indicate that Rhodri ap Hywell Dda had
any descendents.
I have seen the lineage: Llewellyn son of Praust ach Elisedd ap Anarawd ap
Rhodri Mawr. And this is what I record in my database, but with
qualifications:
Kari Maund in "The Welsh Kings" [Stroud, Gloucestershire. Tempus
Publishing, 2000] does not indicate any lineage through Seisyll. "...
relative late pedigrees ... claim that Llywelyn's mother was Prawst,
daughter of Elise [sic] ab Anarawd ap Rhodri [Mawr]. There are a number of
problems with this claim, however. The fabrication of a link in the female
line was a convenient means to affiliate an outsider, fictionally, to an
existing royal dynasty. Neither Prawst nor Elise are recorded outside the
genealogies, and there existence must be regarded as uncertain. There is no
early evidence for any link between Llywelyn and the Line of Merfyn apart
from his marriage to Angharad ferch Maredudd. No material survives
regarding his descent in the male line. This leads me to believe that he
was a man from an obscure background, perhaps a member of the lesser
nobility, who rose to power not through claims -- real or fake -- to descent
from former kings, but through his own ability."
I agree, in general, about censuses -- except when, in a US census, I find
that a person has miraculously aged 15 years in a 10 year time span. I'm
sure that never happens in GB.
John Deitz
mailto:deitz@prometheusli.com
http://prometheusli.com/
-----Original Message-----
From: AlwynapHuw(a)aol.com [mailto:AlwynapHuw@aol.com]
Sent: Thursday, August 29, 2002 9:40 PM
To: WALES-GEN-L(a)rootsweb.com
Subject: Re: [WALES-GEN] Why is Bleddyn ap Cynfyn called Prince of
Deheubath?
In a message dated 30/08/2002 02:15:29 GMT Daylight Time, I wrote:
His mother Angharad was the widow
of Llywelyn ap Seisyllt, King of both Deheubarth and Gwynedd. Seisyllt was
a
grandson of Hywel Dda twice over so he had big rights to the Crown of
Deheubarth.
Neil, You said it was confusing and on reading my submission I realised I
have confused myself :-((
Seisyllt was the GREAT grandson of Hywel Dda being the son of Prawst ach
Elisedd ap Rhodri.
Seisyllt's wife (Bleddyn's Mother) was the other descendant of Hywel:
Angharad ach Maredydd ab Owain ap Hywel and that's how Bleddyn claimed two
rights to the throne of Deheubarth.
Has this sorted the confusion out or made it worse? Questions about the 1881
Census are SO much easier to deal with :-)
Regards
Alwyn
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