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A cleric recently deceased in these parts gained some notoriety for
solemnising marriages that should not have taken place in either of his
parishes. The parochial fees collected there each year are apparently now
declining, but still high in relation to those received elsewhere in the
Just to add a modern perspective on this - when I married in 1996, I did so
in the parish where my parents were resident. I had never lived there on a
permanent basis since they had moved parish after I left home to go to
university, some 15 years earlier. The local rector was well aware of this,
but since my parents lived there and were involved with the church, he was
readily able to accept that I was a 'resident' - and entered my address at
the time of marriage as my parents' address. My husband's address was
entered as the house where we were in fact both resident at the time, and
our banns were called once where we lived and once where we were about to be
married. I imagine such things have been going on in practice for a very
long time - so long as a reasonable link could be established with the
parish where one wished to be married then a degree of subterfuge was and is
When my mother and father were married in 1932, they were both resident in
Wimbledon, South London. But they wanted to be married at Radnage, Bucks
where my mother's uncle, Rev B J Corder, was the rector. My mother left a coat
hanging in the rectory for three weeks in order to establish the necessary
residence. I think that had she not claimed residence in Radnage they could
still have been married there but they would have had the added complication of
obtaining a special licence from the bishop.
It is only necessary for one of the parties to establish a residence - The
Church was quite able to cope with the possibility that two people wishing to
marry might come from different parishes!
Yes it definitely happened in Cornwall.
----- Original Message -----
From: "by way of Geoffrey <lists(a)sog.org.uk>" <RoganGenealogy(a)aol.com>
Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2004 3:02 PM
Subject: [SoG] RE: Address on marriage
> During my childhood in Dorset in the 1940's, I recall that, where a couple
> wished to marry in a certain parish but were unable to meet the residency
> requirements, the address of a friend in the relevant area was used.
> It was usual for a suitcase of clothes belonging to the individual to be
> deposited at this address of convenience in case a check was made,
> presumably by
> the church authorities.
> Did this happen elsewhere I wonder?
> John Rogan in Wiltshire
> This email has been scanned for viruses by NetBenefit using Sophos
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At 15:02 27/05/04 +0100, RoganGenealogy(a)aol.com wrote:
>During my childhood in Dorset in the 1940's, I recall that, where a couple
>wished to marry in a certain parish but were unable to meet the
>residency requirements, the address of a friend in the relevant area was
>used. It was usual for a suitcase of clothes belonging to the individual
>to be deposited at this address of convenience in case a check was
>made, presumably by the church authorities.
I am sure the application of the rules varied widely from parish to
parish. When I was married in 1963 in a different parish in Brighton
from that in which my wife resided, the Vicar arranged for her to spend
three separate nights sleeping on the floor in the house of a "helpful
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During my childhood in Dorset in the 1940's, I recall that, where a couple
wished to marry in a certain parish but were unable to meet the residency
requirements, the address of a friend in the relevant area was used.
It was usual for a suitcase of clothes belonging to the individual to be
deposited at this address of convenience in case a check was made,
the church authorities.
Did this happen elsewhere I wonder?
John Rogan in Wiltshire
This email has been scanned for viruses by NetBenefit using Sophos
Frank Hardy said:
> I have seen a number of certificates where the address of bride and groom
> was identical even in respectable families - I think these were probably
> addresses of convenience merely quoted for the purposes of the marriage.
This was undoubtedly the case for my grandparents who quoted the
same address in Camberwell on their marriage certificate. This was
actually the address of two of the witnesses, and as far as I can tell
my grandmother was in service in Paddington, while my grandfather
was living at home in Holborn.
Once married they both lived in Camberwell however, so I suspect
what happened was their friends found a suitable place for them to
rent and they were intent on moving into that parish, so had the
banns put up for an address of convenience. Since my grandmother
would have lost her living accomodation when she gave notice, its not
improbable that she actually did stay at that address briefly however.
My grandfather continued to work in Covent Garden, becoming
therefore the archetypal "man on the Clapham omnibus"!
David, John and Joseph confusion seems to be a Yorkshire trait! I have an
instance in Batley Dade registers where mother's father is alternately John
and Joseph. I have also had trouble with Josh, the h sometimes small and
raised , as an abbreviation for Joseph, being mistaken for Joshua. Also my
gggrandfather's obit says his father-in-law was Joseph when he was a John.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Hugh Ainsley" <hugh(a)ainsley.stargate.co.uk>
Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2004 8:24 AM
Subject: Re: [SoG] James and Joseph
> David - I've a good example of John and Joseph seeming to be
> interchangeable - also in the Yorkshire. That seemed a bit easier to
> understand, since John is often familiarised to Joe. In the instance I
> know about, again it was Joseph that seemed to be the chosen alias
> - but I've nothing to say /why/!
> Hugh Ainsley - the AINSLEY one name study - GOONS #3926
My g-g-grandfather, Charles Frederick BURTON, and his sister, Emma Juliana
BURTON were both married (not to each other, but to Rebecca Victoria GUINNESS
and Charles GAMMON respectively) in 1843. All four addresses on the
certificates are recorded as just 'Princes Street', but so far as I can ascertain, none
of them, nor any of their parents, was resident in Princes Street in 1841. Is
it just coincidedence that they all lived in the same street for less than two
years, or is there some convention at work here? Did they for example give
that address, while ordinarily living elsewhere, in order to be married (as
they were) at St Georges Hanover Square?
I have come across a relation - Charles GAMMON , whose occupation, according
to his marriage certificate in June quarter 1843, was a solicitor. Are there
any further details about, or registers of, solicitors for that period which
may add some detail to this individual?
Thanks in advance
I could see them easily being confused if the entry was written up from
scruffy notes where the vicar was not sure if he had written Jas. or Jos. as
an abbreviation for the forename.
----- Original Message -----
From: "David Binns" <davidbinns(a)qual-chem-tech.co.uk>
Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 5:40 PM
Subject: [SoG] James and Joseph
| Would somebody care to give an opinion on the frequency with which the
names Joseph and James were confused.
| I have a marriage in 1852, in Bradford, Yorks., where the grooms father is
recorded as Joseph BINNS when all other evidence confirms him as being James
BINNS and a further example in 1883 in Sheffield where the brides father is
recorded as Joseph LEVERTON, all other evidence confirming him as James
| Was this confusion common and is there any explanation?
| David Binns, Tyneside
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Would somebody care to give an opinion on the frequency with which the names Joseph and James were confused.
I have a marriage in 1852, in Bradford, Yorks., where the grooms father is recorded as Joseph BINNS when all other evidence confirms him as being James BINNS and a further example in 1883 in Sheffield where the brides father is recorded as Joseph LEVERTON, all other evidence confirming him as James LEVERTON.
Was this confusion common and is there any explanation?
David Binns, Tyneside
Can anyone tell me please if there are any Canadian BMD indexes online
Web page http://homepage.ntlworld.com/d.tappin
>Can anyone tell me please if there are any Canadian BMD indexes online
Look at Cyndi's List under Canada. For each area - not sure what they call
the equivalent of our Counties - you will find a heading "Records: Census,
Cemeteries, Land, Obituaries, Personal, Taxes and Vital "
In Ontario for example you will find and index to MIs for many of their
cemetaries. Beware though, because living people are included in this
index if they appear in the inscription. There is also an index to the
I recently set up a project to try and get transcriptions of all the
pre-1841 Devon censuses and population listings on-line in
Living as I do at the far end of the country from Devon, I have had
to rely largely on published sources, in the Gibson Guides and
Chapman Cameos series, to identify and locate such documents.
Regarding Gibson and Medlycott's book "Local Census Listings", the
latest edition that I've had access to is that published in 1994, but
I see that there is a later (1997) edition. (I think this is the
latest.) With Chapman's "Pre-1841 Local Censuses and Population
Listings", I've had access only to the 1994 edition, and i'm not sure
if there is a later edition, as opposed to later US printings
Could I ask if there is someone who has copies of the latest editions
who could spend a few minutes checking whether they have any further
pre-1841 Devon items listed, over and above those already given on my
School of Computing Science, University of Newcastle, Newcastle upon Tyne,
NE1 7RU, UK
EMAIL = Brian.Randell(a)ncl.ac.uk PHONE = +44 191 222 7923
FAX = +44 191 222 8232 URL = http://www.cs.ncl.ac.uk/~brian.randell/
The email address is correct - the staff member responsible for processing
email sent to this address has been on holiday/only works part time. I just
checked any mail received before 13.05/04 has been read from the ISP server
so your query should be answered soon. In addition to queries submitted by
email there are also postal and telephone queries to deal with.
At 13:49 14/05/2004, Yvonne Purdy wrote:
>Could someone please confirm that I have the right address to contact the
>I've sent two messages several days ago, but heard nothing back at all.
>The address I've used is:
>Many thanks in advance,
Could someone please confirm that I have the right address to contact the
I've sent two messages several days ago, but heard nothing back at all.
The address I've used is:
Many thanks in advance,
>Does anyone know when there might be a name index for the1851 census in
If you look in a FFHS publication called "Lists of Londoners" you will find
a list of all Societies who have name indexes (some surname only) for most
of the 'Middlesex part of London' for the 1851 census. Most are fiche,
some are paper but as far s I know there is nothing electronic yet.
Does anyone know of an alternative source for the plain A5 magazine binders
that the Society used to sell? I know that it is possible to get blue ones
from the manufacturer (though the specification does not seem to be
identical). What, though, of the red-mottled-black version? I have found
that the Dorset F.H.S. sells green ones, and, at this year's fair, I noted
that the Bedfordshire F.H.S. had a selection of colours in A4 size.
Any suggestions for the red mottled A5 size, given that my requirement is
for considerably fewer than 50?