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>My mole at the PRO says that the 1901 census will actually go live at 10am
on New Year's day - not on the 2nd as advertised.<
And did he tell you how or where to find it?
Jeanne Bunting née Attersley
Thank you! It did occur to me, but, ONLY after I was informed it was doing
it...still, I'm waiting for the NEW YEAR to do so. MY new year that
is....just think, TWO New Years Eve parties!! What else does one do when
the New Year is 2002?
----- Original Message -----
From: "La Greenall" <animaus(a)lineone.net>
Sent: Thursday, December 27, 2001 2:59 PM
Subject: RE: [SoG] Merry Christmas!
> If you wish, Paula, you should be able to reset your computer's clock
> Assuming you use one of the Windows versions, click once on the clock
> the taskbar, with the RIGHT mouse button, then from the menu that appears
> (with the left mouse button) the 'Adjust Date/Time' option.
> But you may not want to - just think, with your current settings you could
> easily beat the rush to get access to the 1901 [UK] and 1930 [US] censuses
> Jan 1 - envy envy!!!!
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Paula McRonald [mailto:email@example.com]
> > Sent: 31 December 2001 01:45
> Only 22 hours and 15 mins to go...!
The Yorkshiremen have had their chance. Now I'll have a go.
In Lewis's Topographical Dictionary of England, 1842, (5th edn.) there is no
entry for a place named Thisleton or variant that fits the bill, but there
is an entry for a place named Thirtleby, as follows:
THIRTLEBY, a township, in the parish of Swine, union of Skirlaugh, Middle
Division of the wapentake of Holderness, E. Riding of the county of York, 6
miles (N.E.) from Hull; containing 58 inhabitants.
What do you think, Steve? It's in the parish of Swine, at least.
Happy New Year everyone,
>Can any of the "Professional Yorkshiremen" please help ?
>I have ROSS ancestors from east YKS, some of whom emigrated to Canada
>In 1821, the baptism of one son of Benjamin ROSS appears in the
>register of Sutton-in-Holderness, his father being "of Thisleton". In
>1822 Benjamin is shown as "of Sutton Bank", and in 1829 "of Swine".
>His son Benjamin Leaper ROSS (bap 1822 in Sutton) died in 1904 at
>Innisfil, Ontario and the family memorial states "born at Thistletown,
>Yorkshire, Eng, Aug 16 1822".
>The only Thistleton place names I can now find are in Lancs, or
>Rutland. I can't see any reference to Thistleton in Thomas Blashill's
>book on Sutton-in-Holderness.
>Any help please for one who's alleged Scots ancestors came from
>Steve in Dorset, born in Islington (only 1/32 YKS).
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Billfirth(a)cs.com [mailto:Billfirth@cs.com]
> Sent: 31 December 2001 18:17
> This surely confirms Upholders as furniture industry workers and as what we
> would now call upholsterers.
Yet my brain still persists in sending me images of a little East-End tailor
trying vainly to pin together a voluminous ladies' dress at a fitting, whilst
becoming increasingly lost forevermore within the multiplicitous folds! Decency
must always have needed 'holding up'!
> -----Original Message-----
> From: John Townsend [mailto:firstname.lastname@example.org]
> Sent: 31 December 2001 17:34
> I like the three-volume 1840 edition of Fuller - I suppose the first edition
> is more of a collector's item.
I recently showed my 1840 reprint of Fuller's 'Hist. Camb Uni and W. Abbey' to a
fellow WA hist Soc member - he promptly disappeared for a moment and came back
with the first edition of 16-something. It was probably bigger than A3 in size
and the type must have been in 36 point or thereabouts! Gorgeous!
I recently borrowed Farmer's 1735 'Hist. WA' from my local public lib (yes the
original 1st edition) - later found the same edition for sale online at £120 -
didn't buy it of course, local bookfairs sometimes have it for around £80 if
> -----Original Message-----
> From: rita a gerrard [mailto:email@example.com]
> Sent: 31 December 2001 16:54
> To: SOG-UK-L(a)rootsweb.com
> Subject: [SoG] Thank you Mr B T-D for occupations queries
> I have thanked Caroline, Gurney, Lawrence Greenall and Alan Merryweather for
> their help which indicated my guess that Throwster might be to do with
> spinning silk or similar...
Out of passing interest, in the 1841 Sewardstone census HO107/341, 23 of the 50
people on folio 23 are Silk Throwsters. Other folios contain several more. They
all lived near to Sewardstone Silk Mill, which wasn't to last much longer,
thanks to foreign competition.
The fact is that the card holder hold all the cards (sorry about the
As a poor old credit card merchant, I know this!!!
All you have to do is simple - check your credit card statement! (And you
can do this with internet banking now with many banks). If there is a
you don't recognise - phone the credit card company, who will reverse the
entry and go back to the merchant who has to prove that they were
authorised - by you - to make that charge.
If the merchant can not provide documentation - the charge stays reversed.
You do not pay.
A friend of mine did have numerous Disney Land tickets charged to her
card. She rang. Charge reversed. Eventually it was found that her card
number was generated by some random card generation system which just
creates credit card numbers which are used - many don't work, but when one
does, it is used. Nothing to do with her number being used in a restaurant,
given to a mail order firm or sent in an email etc.
So - just check your statement.
> Tom said:
> > It is most interesting see all the "what might happen", but I did ask
> > if anyone has any PERSONAL experience where CC details sent
> > by e-mail have been electronically siphoned and used illegally.
> > So far there does not appear to have been any instances, or nobody
> > has detailed one anyway.
> > As someone said in a direct e-mail to me, he asked the credit
> > card folks how much fraud there is due to electronic fraud. The
> > answer as he stated, was that there is VERY LITTLE (my emphasis)
> > and that most was due to waiters.
My mole at the PRO says that the 1901 census will actually go live at 10am on New Year's day - not on the 2nd as advertised.
The URL is www.census.pro.gov.uk
Simon Fowler, 13 Grovewood, Sandycombe Rd,
Kew, Richmond, Surrey TW9 3NF
Tel; 020-8296 8794 www.sfowler.force9.co.uk
Barney Tyrwhitt-Drake writes:
>And there was I thinking that the 1952 edition was only valuable because
>it contained a debutant (note masculine not feminine) and even got his
>date of birth correct as 30 July 1947!
Ah, yes, I see. And acccording to the index the Tyrwhitt-Drakes are also in
Volume One of the 3-volume 18th edition (1965-1972). I wonder if there'll
be a 19th edition?
>The publication of such directories of notables goes back a lot earlier
>than Burke and Debrett though. Dr. Thomas Fuller published his 'Worthies
>of England' posthumously in 1662. My copy is an American reprint (1965)
>of the 1840 London reprinting. It lists the great and the good by county
>from the earliest times until 1840. And arguably the Domesday Book is a
>directory of sorts.
I like the three-volume 1840 edition of Fuller - I suppose the first edition
is more of a collector's item. In producing lists of important people, the
heralds had beaten Fuller to it by decades, as there were many earlier works
containing lists of the gentry, including Guillim's Heraldry, Yorke's Union
of Honour, Dugdale's Baronage, and, of course, all those heraldic
visitations. Parliament was the subject of numerous lists too, including
Dugdale's impressive folio, "A Perfect Copy of all the Summons of the
Nobility to the Great Councils and Parliaments of this Realme, from the 49
of Henry III to this present", published in 1685.
I think the earliest directory of merchants was the 1677 directory of
In those days, lists of us ordinary folk would have been confined, apart
from parish registers, to things like tax assessments, court appearances,
manorial lists, muster rolls, with the occasional bonus like the 1642
Protestations thrown in. One of the best London lists of those days,
the1695 list of inhabitants within the walls of the City, was, at the end of
the day, the by-product of yet another tax - this time on living.
Hello John and list,
I read your message shortly after returning from Bedford. As it
happens I was in the Local Studies library for a few minutes and while
there picked up a credit card sized *visiting card* from the PRO.
This is headed *CENSUS ONLINE* and gives the website as
It also gives an Email address - 1901census(a)pro.gov.uk together with
direct phone and fax numbers. On the back are Email, phone and fax
numbers for the *Census Helpdesk* (the postal address for this is in
If anyone wants the phone numbers etc. please let me know.
I have thanked Caroline, Gurney, Lawrence Greenall and Alan Merryweather for
their help which indicated my guess that Throwster might be to do with
spinning silk or similar, so had a good old search on Google, and found
loads of confirmatory evidence, and would like to thank Barney
Tyrwhitt-Drake for further info which amongst other very interesting items
"1846 McCulloch Acc. Brit. Empire (1854) I. 713 The throwsters of the
>metropolis were formed into a fellowship in 1562, but they were not
>incorporated till 1629...............
Is it possible that records of this Fellowship may still exist, and might
they be in the Guildhall Library? or perhaps sks could suggest where to
Many thanks for this.
Rita A GERRARD
Essex - PEASE
London - PEASE, EDGHILL, GRIFFIN, WATERS, HARRIS [Hackney]
GERRARD, CHILDS, RUSSELL,HOSKINS, MABEY, WHETHAM, EVELEIGH, HEWITT,
Wiltshire, Somerset, Hampshire - GERRARD, JERRARD, LAWSON, DUKE, DE LARA
Canada - Ontario - 1850's GERRARD
USA - San Francisco - 1850's GERRARD
GERRARD, FORD, ASHTON, VALENTINE, RIDING.
Sheffield and Darlington
WRIGHT, DUNWORTH, DOBSON, ATHEY.
I have been looking at what is available at present on the 1901 Census
Online system. I have two areas of slight concern and give the
- The first area concerns the presentation of the Web address to use
to access this online census.
- The second area concerns the possibility of being cut off, because
of demand, from returning to the census site within 48 hours of having
paid for access by credit card, and so losing the use of the balance
amount left over from the GBP 5.00 (or larger sum) paid.
1. 1901 Online Census Web Site
The PRO is being rather coy about exactly what Web address to use to
access the 1901 Online Census. This is probably because the correct
web address is not yet accessible, and they do not want people to make
abortive attempts to get there . . .
Up to few days ago, if you looked at the PRO at:
I am pretty sure that if one clicked on the orange colour heading
'1901 Census Online' above the right hand paragraph, one was taken to
the (inaccessible) address: www.census.pro.gov I actually bookmarked
this address at the time for future use. (If one used the '1901
Census' menu option on the left hand side of the page, one was taken
to: www.pro.gov.uk/census/default.htm )
At present the link from the orange colour heading '1901 Census
Online' takes one to: www.pro.gov.uk/census/default.htm . . .
The latter address bring up a page headed: 'Census Online' with a
statement: 'Welcome to the Census Online Website'. So far so good.
But if one then selects any of the following options to proceed from
the list :
What is a Census?
What is 1901 Census Online?
What is the latest news on the 1901 Census Project?
How to obtain Vouchers
Try the Site Tour
and look at the contents of the resulting pages, I don't think one
will find anywhere that gives the actual web address to use to access
this online census!
However, if instead of selecting from the above list, one selects
'Frequently Asked Questions' from the left hand menu options, and from
the next page selects the '1901 Online service', one finds that the
answer to the 4th question:
'What is the web site address?'
is the web address:
At present this address does not seem to be accessible. Is this in
fact going to be the correct address to get directly to the 1901
Online Census? Who knows . . .
I am sure that by Wednesday 2 January 2002 there will be a link from
the 'Census Online' site at: www.pro.gov.uk/census/default.htm to the
correct entry point for the 1901 Online Census search, but it will be
interesting to see if it is: www.census.pro.gov.uk , or something
2. Cut off from Using up Credit
I am wondering how those keen (foolish?) enough to try and use the
1901 Online Census in the first few days/weeks after it opens, will
get on if they manage to get in and pay their first GBP 5 (or more) by
credit card, but do not use up the full amount in their first session.
If they then attempt to log in again (and again . . .) before the 48
limit has expired, and find the site too busy to do so, I suspect they
will lose the use of the remaining balance . . .
Does anyone know if the cookies created, when an user first pays by
credit card and does not use up the balance, will be used to ensure
that returning users will get some priority in using the site? Or is
this something that has not been considered?
Of course those that pay by voucher will have 6 months from the first
time they use the voucher to use up any remaining balance, so they
should not have the same problem.
John V Addis-Smith
Thurleigh, Bedfordshire, England
Perhaps a bit late in the day but, while I was looking for something else in
a Bibliography of the Industrial Archaeology and History of London I have
just come across the following reference under the general heading of Guilds
K.M. Walton, The Worshipful Company of Upholders of the City of London,
Furniture History IX, 1973, 41-79.
This surely confirms Upholders as furniture industry workers and as what we
would now call upholsterers.
Bill Firth, the Yorkshireman in London.
In a message dated 31/12/01 15:03:15 GMT Standard Time,
> If there is a charge you don't recognise - phone the credit card company,
> who will reverse the
> entry and go back to the merchant who has to prove that they were
> authorised - by you - to make that charge.
> If the merchant can not provide documentation - the charge stays reversed.
> You do not pay.
How I wish that were true.
I am on the e-mail list of Whats-on-stage.com In August there was a
special offer which I took advantage of. I had to use the telephone number
in the e-mail to order tickets. It seemed a very good service. The tickets
arrived within two days and we duly went to the theatre.
After six weeks my credit card bill came in with the item on the statement
twice - on two consecutive dates. I telephoned the Credit Card company who
sent me forms to fill in. The theatre sent the forms back saying that I had
had the tickets. This is still ongoing and I have no way to disprove them.
Interest is also being added. The C.C. company say that the reason it's
taking so long is because the theatre use a different bank.
I won't be ordering by telephone again. Once bitten, twice shy.
Helen M. Cox (nee Lucking).
I don't know exactly what a "bullock walloper" is, but it reminds me of a
story which my father used to tell. He said that Bob HERBERT, my
great-grandfather, a publican, who ran the White Lion, at Blidworth, Notts.,
killed a bull by punching it between the eyes. Can anyone explain this,
Dad regarded this as no mean feat, but when I bounced the story off Uncle
Cyril, he shook his head and said Bob Herbert would never have done anything
like that. However, Dad said that Uncle Cyril used to swing cats round by
their tails - and he later became a tax inspector! It can be hard to judge
a man's character .....
>I am currently transcribing the first burial register (1859-1903) for
>Hexham Cemetery, Northumberland. In 1883, Alexander Walker of Hexham
>Workhouse, aged 73, was buried and his occupation was described as "bullock
>walloper". It sounds too precise for him to be a "cowman". I am guessing
>that he did something that would bring tears to the bullock's eyes!! Has
>anyone any ideas?
>I have checked dictionaries and the occupations website recommended in the
>last couple of days.
I tried to send this yesterday but it bounced back !!!!
Demon users have been losing some of their email because of a software
problem at Demon. I don't know how long this will last and it is not
affecting all users evenly. It is affecting the Society who use Demon as a
gateway. [ It now seems to be fixed]. Some of you were automatically
unsubscribed and I hope that all are now re-instated.
I can't repeat every message but I will repeat the one below, which was
bounced the most, to show the reason for the bounce which amused me !!
This message was created automatically by mail delivery
software. A message that you sent could not be delivered
to all of its recipients.
The following message, addressed to 'xxx(a)socgen.demon.co.uk',
failed because it has not been collected after 4294967295 days
< headers etc. cut >
On 30 Dec 2001 at 0:01, Bill Templeton wrote:
> but no-one has apparently asked the first
> question that came into my head: how much does this service cost? How
> does the cost compare with sending a postal application or applying in
> person at PRO outlets such as the Family Records Centre in London?
Well I use the electronic way quite a lot, being a tad distant from
the ONS, the cost is a tiny bit more than ordering on the spot at the
FHC, and as far as I know the electronic way = the cost of the postal
---- END OF RETURNED MESSAGE ----
Geoffrey T. Stone,
SoG Mailing List Administrator. lists(a)sog.org.uk
Can any of the "Professional Yorkshiremen" please help ?
I have ROSS ancestors from east YKS, some of whom emigrated to Canada
In 1821, the baptism of one son of Benjamin ROSS appears in the
register of Sutton-in-Holderness, his father being "of Thisleton". In
1822 Benjamin is shown as "of Sutton Bank", and in 1829 "of Swine".
His son Benjamin Leaper ROSS (bap 1822 in Sutton) died in 1904 at
Innisfil, Ontario and the family memorial states "born at Thistletown,
Yorkshire, Eng, Aug 16 1822".
The only Thistleton place names I can now find are in Lancs, or
Rutland. I can't see any reference to Thistleton in Thomas Blashill's
book on Sutton-in-Holderness.
Any help please for one who's alleged Scots ancestors came from
Steve in Dorset, born in Islington (only 1/32 YKS).
I was surprised to find that in England one is still expected to sign credit
card vouchers in shops/cafes etc while in NZ we just enter a pin number.
That would cut out theft by waiter? Mind you, we could not afford 'better
restaurants'. Best way to lose weight is a trip to the UK.
> > So as I said, it is leaving your card on the saucer/tray in a
> > restaurant that should concern you most, not e-mail.
. Better restaurants have the transaction terminal
> thingy prominently set up on a counter in the main dining area, where one
> be able to clearly see one's own waiter processing the credit card
> doesn't go out of your sight). Thus a direct tip to that person should do
> >?<s z>&<
> g" AA) Be Civil, Honest, and Willing (VV "p
> ( ,_.) and the Base of Success is at your feet (._~ )
> / = < > = \
Whilst on the subject of occupations, can anyone help with the following.
I am currently transcribing the first burial register (1859-1903) for
Hexham Cemetery, Northumberland. In 1883, Alexander Walker of Hexham
Workhouse, aged 73, was buried and his occupation was described as "bullock
walloper". It sounds too precise for him to be a "cowman". I am guessing
that he did something that would bring tears to the bullock's eyes!! Has
anyone any ideas?
I have checked dictionaries and the occupations website recommended in the
last couple of days.
Regards and best wishes for the coming New Year,