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Hi David & Chris,
re the query of Griggs in Suffolk, I have a little data which may point
to an area of Suffolk in which to search.
Ellen Griggs (b1836 d1864) married my great great grandfather John henry
Borley at the parish church in Edwardstone, Suffolk in 1846. She was
the daughter of Peach Griggs and his second wife Sarah Trimble. Peach
Griggs was born in 1790 and died also in 1864.
Edwardstone is just east of Sudbury and close to the village where Ellen
subsequently lived and died.
This is not my research but that of a distant cousin who has been
researching the Borley family.
Hope this helps.
(Researching HICKSON, APPLETON, FRENCH & SILVERLOCK in Liverpool)
Roy Stockdill wrote "Every where I look, Barney ... you seem to have had
Admittedly Barney's ancestors may have moved in classes and fields that are
better recorded, but with perhaps 30,000 ancestors since parish records
began, at least a good proportion of them is likely to have been widespread.
Could it be that Barney has also worked at it a bit harder than others? He
says he has to write software for a living, but with researching his own
family history and helping countless other people with their problems, he
can't have much time for his bread-and-butter work.
B. A. white.
----- Original Message -----
From: Roy Stockdill <roystock(a)compuserve.com>
Sent: Tuesday, February 29, 2000 12:57 AM
Subject: [SOG] Army Records
Anyone researching the following PRETTY family from Lambeth and Westminster.
William PRETTY married Hannah, their son James c1822 married Mary Ann
WEIDNER at St Mary's Lambeth in 1843.
James was a Coal Porter and they had 3 children, Mary c1845 my
GGrandmother, born at Palmers Village Westminster. William c 1847 and Joseph
Anyone researching or heard of the following GRIGGS family,
John GRIGGS c1843 married Emily c1842 about 1866 believed to be in Suffolk.
They were living at 25 Chapel Street Clerkenwell in 1881 and at 8 Turner
Road Walthamstow by the time of John's death in 1934. John was a White Metal
Caster by trade. They had the following children,
Alice 1867 who married a Nicholls.
I assume by Kingston that you mean Kingston-upon-Thames.
There is indeed a Borough Road in K-o-T in an area between Kingston Hill,
Park Road and Queens road,which leads to the Kingston Gate entrance to
The nearest all age school is likely to have been St Paul's Kingston Hill, if
is open at that time. Kingston had a Technical School which started about a
hundred years ago and was long ago absorbed into the College of Further
Education. I think that there was an article in a local newspaper last week
or the week before which mentioned a part to celebrate the centenary of the
I know that this will not be applicable to Arthur because the date is too
late but I have a list of occupations of Kingston pupils on leaving school
for years from 1908 to 1911. Two were recorded as entering motor, cycle and
carriage shops in1908, seven in 1909, three in 1910 and two in 1911.
There were some most interesting occupations, including worlking at
Teddington Laboratory, now the National Physical Laboratory, working at a
skating rink, bottlers and bottle washers but the main occupation was errand
and messennger boys followed by van boys and office boys and junior clerks.
There is anote that the number who became office boys in 1911 was much
smaller than innprevious years because many now attend the Commercial School
for one or two years before entering commercial life.
So records of employment do exist but no names are given, nor in most case
the place of employment. The information is in a document prepared in
September 1912 for H.T. ROBERTS, Education Secretary.
The document was in a folder which I bought entitled Kingston Children, an
archive teaching resource. In there folder are some photographs of children
at some of the schools. There could be something in the archives of The
Surrey Comet which might be of help. These newspapers used to be available at
Kingston Heritage Centre.
I hope this might help,
As part of my genealogy course I am writing a biography on my great
grandfather ARTHUR FRANCIS. I have managed to obtain a fair amount of
information about his adulthood, however I have got stuck with his childhood.
He was born in 1890 in Marylebone. I know from the 1891 census that he was
living in Lorne Place, Borough Road, Kingston. He was the illegitimate child
of ANNIE CARPENTER and was bought up by maternal grandparents at the above
I am interested to learn about his possible schooling and early career as a
1. Does anyone know what local schools that he may have attended?
2. Would he have attended a secondary school (or similar)?
3. Was there any car firms in the area of Kingston that he may have done an
Any information would be of value. Thanks for your help
I have an instance of a marriage to the deceased wife's sister in 1815 -
1816. The second marriage was at St Martin Vintry in London. The first
marriage in London I have not found, but have a daughter's baptism and
the mother's burial and MI. They were Methodist's and lived in
Shoreditch. When the husband died the will was very strange, being
written a year previous to the death 'in great haste in case I should
die before making a proper will' It was not witnessed and there were no
executors. The pianoforte making business and tools of trade to be sold
and one seventh of the money from this was to go the his daughter
Margaret (daughter of the first wife) and then the remaining six
sevenths to his wife and then to the remaining children in equal shares
(the children by the second wife.) Presumably this unusual will was
designed to obscure the illegality of the second marriage and it's
issue. The will was proved with appropriate sworn statements as to the
writing of the testator and absence of any other will. The widow's uncle
and brother both left bequests to her and her children in preference to
the other relatives and I assume that she was in greater need, but also
that the family supported this illegal second marriage. I suppose as non
conformists they probably had their own views on the appropriateness or
otherwise of this particular 'prohibited degree'
Wilfred Gathercole wrote:
> My information is that the problem of marriage to deceased
> wife's sister only began to be sorted out in 1907. But my
> great grandfather managed to get round it over 20 years before.
> He was living in east Notts when my great grandmother died
> and her unmarried sister came to be his housekeeper.
> She was there as housekeeper and sister in law in 1881.
> Four years later she went to stay with her brother in Southport
> and married her brother in law by licence in a Methodist Church
> with the Registrar present. What they said about it back in the
> village is not recorded, but she is buried in the churchyard
> under her married name.
> Does anyone know if there was a general winking at any
> breaking of the law in this respect in the late 1800s?
> The question was a live enough one - W.S.Gilbert even
> worked it into Iolanthe.
> Come to think of it, when I was conducting weddings I did not
> ask older couples if they were within the prohibited degrees.
> Perhaps I should have done. But in this case the responsibility
> clearly lay with the Registrar, who is now beyond retribution.
> Bill Gathercole, York
Barney Tyrwhitt-Drake wrote.....
>>The battle of Waterloo seems to have made an impact on all who took part
in it. My cavalryman gt gt grandfather kept everything that was
associated with his part in the battle.<<
EVERYWHERE I look, Barney, and on every list we both belong to, you seem to
have had ancestors! MPs for Buckinghamshire, mill owners in Bradford, a
cavalryman at Waterloo, to name but a few.....is there nowhere they didn't
make their presence felt?
Betcha you didn't have an ancestor in a cricket match that took place in
Manchester in July 1863 between a team of one-legged players and a team of
one-armed players. Apply to me for details.
Roy Stockdill, Editor, The Journal of One-Name Studies
The Stockdill Family History Society (Guild of One-Name Studies, FedFHS)
Web page of the Stockdill Family History Society:-
Why wait? as the Swan of Avon correctly remarked, one night in the pub -
'Present fears are less than horrid imaginings.'
My computer date and time was set to 11.58pm February 29th 1999 and switched
off. After a strong coffee it was restarted. It was then 00.02 am on 29th
February 2000. Calendars in two programs came up correctly. The calendars on
Page Plus are on a CD and are for 1996 so were unaffected. The Sierra Grand
Suite gave correct ages for living family members at 29 Feb 2000.
Now I have to live long enough to find out if it keeps to it's promise! (If
I get to 2037 it will no longer matter)
Bryan, ever hopeful, in Ripon Yorkshire
> Sorry if this is rather trivial, but for me it is one of those all too
> rare triumphs that have genealogists jumping up from their microfilm
I am delighted for you and Its certainly not trivial! I'm
sure I'm not the only one who is going through a rather
quiet period in my research and its hearing about other
people's success stories that keeps me going!
> Jane Cavell
> Witney, Oxon
[My research interests: COLLINS & CLARE (Bucks), LODGE, SABEY & WHITE (London)]
> How often I have wished I could just see what some of those 19th century
> ancestors looked like. <big snip>
> but for me it is one of those all too rare
> triumphs that have genealogists jumping up from their microfilm readers and
> shouting, "Yes! Gotcha!", so I had to take my excitement out on somebody.
Makes it all worthwhile, doesn't it! I recently wrote a small article about
tracing my Bounds ancestors for the Herefordshire FHS journal. As a result,
I've had five people contact me, one of whom has turned out to be my fourth
cousin once removed (and I haven't ruled out a link with any of the
others yet) :)
Susan Deacon Wokingham, Berks, UK
BOUNDS - HEF DANIEL/HARRIES - CMN
PINFIELD-WELLS - WOR SHUARD - WOR
I had a similar experience indeed, when I started my one-name study, I went
out of my way to contact HOLLICKs overseas rather than at home (time and
money was limited) as I had recently read an article, I think in a national
newspaper but its over 20 years ago now and memories fade, describing how
emigrants from Britain to the Commonwealth countries treasured any
artifacts and memories from home and passed them on to their children.
At that time I suspected that the modern generation might not have the same
interest in such things and decided I should try and get in before their
parents died and the photos, and memories, were thrown away. It worked
well and I now have photographs, and stories, of my grand and greatgrand
parents, as well as great uncles and aunts that were just not available in
this country. I also have photos and memories from non-related families
which have been of value to others researching the overall "family".
If anyone has not tried making contact with relatives overseas I would
strongly recommend that they do so, and as soon as possible.
David Hollick - Guild of One-Name Studies
HOLLICK & Variants World-Wide
at Solihull in the ancient County of Warwickshire
Message text written by Jane Cavell, Witney, Oxon
>I spotted an entry in the Wiltshire surname interest list that I thought
be connnected with mine: ASH(E) from Chippenham and Calne, 18th/19th c.
That's exactly where my ASH(E) ancestors were from! I tried not to get my
hopes too high, in case there was no link, but soon discovered that I had a
whole host of long-lost cousins in the USA. Several of my
great-great-grandmother's siblings had apparently emigrated in the 1850s.
wonder I had found no trace of them or their descendants! What is most
exciting for me is that one of my new-found cousins has a photograph of my
great-great-grandmother with her husband and three children (one my
great-grandmother). I have never seen a photograph of them and had assumed
never would. Now it is on its way to me. Another treasure is a letter from
my great-great-grandmother to her brother in America, describing her house.
Sorry if this is rather trivial, but for me it is one of those all too rare
triumphs that have genealogists jumping up from their microfilm readers and
shouting, "Yes! Gotcha!", so I had to take my excitement out on somebody.
My information is that the problem of marriage to deceased
wife's sister only began to be sorted out in 1907. But my
great grandfather managed to get round it over 20 years before.
He was living in east Notts when my great grandmother died
and her unmarried sister came to be his housekeeper.
She was there as housekeeper and sister in law in 1881.
Four years later she went to stay with her brother in Southport
and married her brother in law by licence in a Methodist Church
with the Registrar present. What they said about it back in the
village is not recorded, but she is buried in the churchyard
under her married name.
Does anyone know if there was a general winking at any
breaking of the law in this respect in the late 1800s?
The question was a live enough one - W.S.Gilbert even
worked it into Iolanthe.
Come to think of it, when I was conducting weddings I did not
ask older couples if they were within the prohibited degrees.
Perhaps I should have done. But in this case the responsibility
clearly lay with the Registrar, who is now beyond retribution.
Bill Gathercole, York
At 05:38 28/02/00 -0500, you wrote:
> >> You + can buy one for HP scanners as an add on, but nowhere near the £59
>+ quoted for the item you found, somewhere around £25 , I think.?<<
>For £79 you can buy a Plustek scanner (Optic Pro 9636T) which will scan
>negatives and slides (35mm) as well as normal items. (We paid £149 for
>ours, but prices have come down since then). It gives very good results
>and the negative scanning is achieved by plugging in a trailing lead which
>switches the light source from the bottom to the top.
There's a review of 16 scanners in the current (April!) PC PRO. It includes
the Acerscan Prisa 620UT at 109 GBP which has a transparency adapter included.
Editor, "Computers in Genealogy",
Society of Genealogists,
14 Charterhouse Buildings, Goswell Road,
London EC1M 7BA
CiG Web Page: http://www.sog.org.uk/cig/
Roy Stockdill comments on strange uses for dining tables. I have always
understood that our GP removed my tonsils on the kitchen table at home (a
long time ago now). I have always wondered what happened to them. I don't
suppose they went in the dustbin. I presume the doctor took them away for
Bill Firth, the Yorkshireman in London
>> You + can buy one for HP scanners as an add on, but nowhere near the £59
+ quoted for the item you found, somewhere around £25 , I think.?<<
For £79 you can buy a Plustek scanner (Optic Pro 9636T) which will scan
negatives and slides (35mm) as well as normal items. (We paid £149 for
ours, but prices have come down since then). It gives very good results
and the negative scanning is achieved by plugging in a trailing lead which
switches the light source from the bottom to the top.
After following this thread with interest - I have an HP scanner plus the
slide adaptor- which I have to say takes some getting use to - first result
where very disappointing. Still the DIYers might like to know side
elevation is a equilateral triangle, with an apex angle of 85degrees, both
internal faces are mirrored and the height of the mirror apex is 8cm. I
will admit that until I looked following this last message I assumed the
apex angle was 90degrees! I can only assume that the angle is critical. The
slide is inserted under the left-hand mirror - although I can not see why
this is important.
At 21:05 27/02/2000 +0000, you wrote:
> I have tried the suggested method using a mirror. It works but the
>resolution is poor due to the double transit of the light through the
>> When I originally posted this subject I was assuming that this could
>> be accomplished by putting the 2.25" negative with the emulsion down
>> on the flatbed scanner and place over it a reflective material (eg
>> mirror) which would reflect the scanners own light back to the scanner
>> sensors via the negative. I was hoping that someone would have
>> experience of this method to avoid damaging the scanner. It would
>> seem to me that by reducing the amount of light reflected back the
>> level of over glare would be reduced. The art is to find a way to
>> reduce the reflectivity of the mirror without reducing the
>> I appreciate all the responses especially some of the lateral thinking
>> put into it.
>> regards Richard Smith
>> Looking for William Lomas, Lummis 1811@ Walshaw Le Willows,Suffolk/
>> Harry Ambrose adopted, 1851 Hereford/Bethnal Green/ HOGG 1801@City of
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: <gene(a)browser.demon.co.uk>
>> To: <SOG-UK-L(a)rootsweb.com>
>> Sent: Thursday, February 24, 2000 9:22 AM
>> Subject: [SOG] Scanning Negatives
>> > There was a recent message suggesting the use of a projector above
>> > the scanner bed projecting the image on to a thin screen lying on
>> > the bed.
>> > I have tried this method in the past and it was unsuccessful due to
>> > the direct light from the projector lens swamping any image
>> > produced.
>> > Possibly one way round this would be to project the image at an
>> > angle so that the projector lens was not directly above the scanner
>> > and correct the resulting keystone distortion in a photo editor.
>> > One would need a very thin film to project onto, otherwise the image
>> > would become blurred in its transit through the film. Possibly a
>> > ground glass plate would be suitable.
>> > Dr John Betts <dr(a)browser.demon.co.uk>
>> > London, UK
>> > Looking for Henry VAGG, b c1784, Jane CROUCH, b c1786,
>> > both anywhere in UK, possibly Somerset.
>> > Further details on web site at www.browser.demon.co.uk
>Dr John Betts <dr(a)browser.demon.co.uk>
>Researching BETTS Northampton, TEW Warickshire,
>RIDPATH Scotland, VAGG not Somerset.
>Further details on web site at www.browser.demon.co.uk