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The best way to access the IGI nowadays is on the Net.
Just tune in to <www.familysearch.com>
John Charnell in Vancouver BC
> Are there any plans for another release of the IGI ?
> Does anybody know the price of purchase of the present issue of the IGI on
> microfiche per county?
> Bob Hammond
Alan Merryweather wrote:
> Arising out of the Baptism discussion, has anybody any ideas about the 'N',
> It presumably cannot stand for 'Name' as the Catechism opens:-
> 'What is your name?
> Answer. N. or M.
N = Name // M = NN = Names
John Charnell, in Vancouver on Canada's WET Coast
> My NW LND choirmaster, (a glorious Victorian relic cum eccentric), c.1945
> said that it stood for Nicholas or Mary, contending that these were the two
> most common Christian names in 1662.
> Alan Merryweather.
Arising out of the Baptism discussion, has anybody any ideas about the 'N',
It presumably cannot stand for 'Name' as the Catechism opens:-
'What is your name?
Answer. N. or M.
My NW LND choirmaster, (a glorious Victorian relic cum eccentric), c.1945
said that it stood for Nicholas or Mary, contending that these were the two
most common Christian names in 1662.
I've come across the name Richord (as a female name) many times whilst
searching in Devon registers...
Best wishes and a Happy New Year
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Saturday, December 30, 2000 4:23 PM
Subject: [SOG] A girl called Richard?
> I have come across a rather puzzling entry on FamilySearch.com. Obviously
> need to check the original entry, but meanwhile wonder if any other list
> member has found something similar.
> It is a marriage between Richard Zellie (female) and John Quick (male).
> I have never heard of a girl called Richard before. Is this perhaps a
> mis-reading (and if so, of what?) or did her parents have a strange sense
> And before anyone else suggests it, I don't think this was the first gay
> Pauline Holmes
>If you look at the original record, I'm sure you will find that
>her name was RICHORD, which was certainly used in Devon
> as the female version of Richard.
> Tony Eames
Thanks for that - the Richard in question did come from Devon, so that seems
to be the answer.
In message <3A4D0B9F.F99F34CD(a)which.net>
> I got a BL reader's ticket about three years ago, when the library was
> still in the British Museum, after I learnt that my grandfather, Joseph
> george Hickson, had been the editor of a shorthand magazine in the
> 1890's. I wanted to see copies of this magazine and, yes, the BL did
> have copies of them. To see them however I had to obtain a reader's
> ticket which I did with no problem because this obscure magazine was
> most unlikely to exist anywhere else (the BL as it has been said already
> is a library of last resort)and helped also perhaps that I work at the
> British Museum as a volunteer guide.
> Although I only needed to see these magazines once (they were mainly
> written in shorthand!) I had to have a five year ticket, but this has
> worked out well as by browsing the index I discovered a number of books
> written and published by one of aforesaid grandfathers brothers, Gerrard
> henry Hickson. Family anecdote had told me next to nothing about this
> great uncle except that he had gone to America and that seemed to be the
> last anyone knew.
> These books were on his weird theories of weather forecasting and
> particularly on his weird Hicksonian astronomy. Luckily one of them had
> a self portrait in pen and ink. Later I was to meet up with an elderly
> 2nd cousin who had a photo of him and the two were clearly the same.
> This led to more information but that is another story.
> The real point is that without that 5 year ticket I would not have found
> that particular path. When the BL was still at the BM it was so
> convenient for me to drop in and browse on the days I was working, but
> although it is a pity it has gone to St.Pancras, the space that it
> vacated has been turned into The Great Court, with its magnificent glass
> roof, which will transform the almost 250 year old British Museum.
> Roger Hickson
Sounds like you need to give us the names and dates of these magazines
so that we can all have something solid to quote?
But perhaps any manuscript in their catalogue would do and it was
on-line when I last searched for it - start with "British Library" on a
Tim Powys-Lybbe tim(a)powys.org
For a patchwork of bygones: http://powys.org
In message <023301c0718f$70befa40$0100007f@pickard>
"Pickard Trepess - Hunimex" <pickard(a)hunimex.com> wrote:
> Tim tim(a)powys.org wrote:
> > I've been asked to give the name of a book that will
> > give the life of 16th century, fairly ordinary, England. I have no
> > idea. Does anyone have some suggestions?
> > Tim Powys-Lybbe
> You could try :
> "People At Home. Living in a Warwickshire Village, 1500-1800", by N.W. Alcock, published by Phillimore at GBP 19.95 ISBN 0 85033 863 8, 1993.
> I bought my copy directly from the publisher's from their website / email. It has a good description of the place, the houses across the wealth scale, the community, and the economy. Dr. N.W. Alcock is a professor at the University of Warwick, and a reknown local historian, and has published several other titles.
> Happy Millennium,
> Pickard Trepess
Many thanks. Sounds ideal.
Tim Powys-Lybbe tim(a)powys.org
For a patchwork of bygones: http://powys.org
Pauline Holmes: <PAULIHOLME(a)aol.com> wrote:
>..... I have never heard of a girl called Richard before.
If you look at the original record, I'm sure you will find that
her name was RICHORD, which was certainly used in Devon as the female
version of Richard.
In message <88.7f2dbd.277f6615(a)aol.com>, PAULIHOLME(a)aol.com writes
>I have come across a rather puzzling entry on FamilySearch.com. Obviously I
>need to check the original entry, but meanwhile wonder if any other list
>member has found something similar.
>It is a marriage between Richard Zellie (female) and John Quick (male).
>I have never heard of a girl called Richard before. Is this perhaps a
>mis-reading (and if so, of what?) or did her parents have a strange sense of
>And before anyone else suggests it, I don't think this was the first gay
This is one of the hazards of any index and goes to reinforce the point
that you should only ever use an index entry as a pointer to the
original. The LDS indexes are very prone to this kind of transcription
error in both the IGI and the 1881 UK census index where there are scads
of 'men' named Mary and 'women' named William!
Drake Software web site: http://www.tdrake.demon.co.uk
The instances quoted by Chris Townsend from diaries of the 1820s 30s and
40s seem to fit best with the situation I found in the family bible. I
don't think they had anything to do with the other situation when a
child was baptized privately because of being at risk of early death
when indeed there is a seperate service for receiving the child into the
church which includes I think a condition baptism. I think there
probably would not be a certificate of baptism when the baptism was done
by say a midwife. In Anglican canon law a person cannot be baptized
twice so if there is any doubt there is a conditional form or words "N,
if you have not already been baptized I baptize you ...."
And the 1662 prayerbook provides for the parson to state to the
congregation that he has baptized a baby privately.
I did ask the question of a parson who was formerly a hospital chaplain
- his view was that most of the babies that he baptized as an emergency
were later baptized in church without anything being said about the
> Yes, private baptism could be a snobby/status thing as well as a
> sacrament for those not expected to live long. It is quite common in
> gentry families or those who thought they were gentry. It's a bit like
> being deliberately buried in linen slightly earlier in time, and making
> a point of publicly paying the fine for not being buried in woollen.
> This emphasised your superiority and the fact that you could afford to
> Barney Tyrwhitt-Drake
And it could also be almost routine - I think it was one of the Teffonts in
Wiltshire where I was amazed to see about one child in 3 was privately
baptised, then 'received into the church' a few months later. I'm not sure
if it was because of a lot of sickly babies - or just a nervous clergyman
who wanted to be sure he wouldn't lose a soul - but it was very noticeable.
> Drake Software web site: http://www.tdrake.demon.co.uk
I don't know if this is differant for Catholics - but according to my mother
in law both my husband and her 3rd son were baptised in hospital as they
were born very prematurely. We've never searched for a record of my husbands
baptism, as it has not been needed - but my brother in law did badly need to
prove his baptism- due to an issue of canon law - and was unable too which
gave him major problems. My husbands family apparently assumed once was
enough - even if it was done in a rush by a midwife.
> One possible reason for 'dual baptism' may be as in the case of a GGF.
> The priest put a note in the PR.:-
> 'I never enter private baptisms; they ought to be discouraged'.
> But he did perform both ceremonies and entered them.
> In modern times, both my son and nephew were at risk when born and were
> baptised at the hospitals as emergencies - and later fully baptised in
> Alan Merryweather.
> , ----- Original Message -----
> From: Christopher Richards <cmrichards(a)cableinet.co.uk>
> To: <SOG-UK-L(a)rootsweb.com>
> Sent: 27 December 2000 15:12
> Subject: [SOG] Baptism and Christening
> > I found in my wife's family bible a series of entries which recorded a
> > date for Baptism which was very shortly after the birth and then a
> > second date for "christening" which was getting on for a year later. For
> > instance Robert Baskerville Rickareds Mynors was born at Bath on 1st
> > July 1819, Baptized at Bathwick on 19th July 1819 and Christened at Old
> > Radnor on 20 June 1820.
> > I've always understood that Baptism and Christening were different names
> > for the same ceremony but this suggests that at least in the early 19th
> > century they were thought to be different. Old Radnor was the "home
> > parish" at the time.
> > Can anybody enlighten me?
> > Christopher Richards
> > ______________________________
This discussion seems to have strayed from the original subject but Shirly
Arabin asked about guarantees in positions of trust. In 1885, when my g.
grandfather was appointed Superintendant of a Poor Law school, he was
required to take out a policy in the sum of £200 with The Provident Clerks
& General Gurantee Association. I have not been able to find what the
premiums were but £200 was more than 2 years salary .
Gerry Langford. Shard*low* One-Name Study
Don Steel in NIPR vol. 1, p. 47 quotes a case in which
It would seem likely that the importance of the Christening was largely
social rather than theological - an opportunity for relatives and friends to
sponsor the child and be present at a party. Thus, a series of diaries
written in Lincs. between 1820 and 1840 record children of a good family who
were baptized on the Sunday after birth, but christened sometimes a year
later and the sponsors are mentioned at the second ceremony, when there was
a christening party.
This seems similar to the case below.
>I found in my wife's family bible a series of entries which recorded a
>date for Baptism which was very shortly after the birth and then a
>second date for "christening" which was getting on for a year later. For
>instance Robert Baskerville Rickareds Mynors was born at Bath on 1st
>July 1819, Baptized at Bathwick on 19th July 1819 and Christened at Old
>Radnor on 20 June 1820.
>I've always understood that Baptism and Christening were different names
>for the same ceremony but this suggests that at least in the early 19th
>century they were thought to be different. Old Radnor was the "home
>parish" at the time.
>Can anybody enlighten me?
I have come across a rather puzzling entry on FamilySearch.com. Obviously I
need to check the original entry, but meanwhile wonder if any other list
member has found something similar.
It is a marriage between Richard Zellie (female) and John Quick (male).
I have never heard of a girl called Richard before. Is this perhaps a
mis-reading (and if so, of what?) or did her parents have a strange sense of
And before anyone else suggests it, I don't think this was the first gay
As a regular user of the British Library, may I suggest that the SoG
should not adopt these clear plastic bags? They are incredibly
noisy (rustling, as things are taken out and put back in), and a real
source of irritation in the reading room.
Benjamin S. Beck
Just to add "Victorian Village: The diaries of the Rev John Coker Egerton of
Burwash 1857-1888" for anyone interested in this bit of East Sussex.
In message <jFArGAAsIfS6Ew0u(a)tdrake.demon.co.uk>
Barney Tyrwhitt-Drake <Barney(a)tdrake.demon.co.uk> wrote:
If you have 18th century ancestors
> who were shopkeepers or clergymen then you must read the diaries of
> Parson Woodforde and Thomas Turner.
----- Original Message -----
From: Shirley Arabin <arabin(a)wave.co.nz>
Sent: 29 December 2000 10:17
Subject: [SOG] Was (One Name Study - permission to marry) Bond or insurance.
> Some years ago I worked with a man who had begun his career in the Post
> Office in the 1940s. He spoke of having to have an insurance policy of
> pounds as some sort of bond against theft or loss (of his cash drawer).
> Anyone else heard of this ?
> Shirley Arabin from Mount Maunganui
> "nec temere nec timide"
I think this refers to Fidelity Guarantee insurance which can be arranged
for employers for individuals or whole groups within a firm. I can't recall
if it was possible for somebody to arrange it personally.
The premium is based upon the likelihood of default and so enquiries are
made into sytems of supervision etc before a policy will be issued.
A bank clerk would attract a comparatively low rate - as opposed to a
solicitor's clerk, (surprise, surprise!), since the latter are comparatively
poorly paid and not necessarily too well supervised.