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From: David Pilkington <dpilk(a)clara.net>
Subject: [SOG-UK-L] British Vital Records Index
>There is a review of this CD-ROM in the December issue of Computers in
>How does it compare with the IGI for content?
For my one-name-study surname, IRONSIDE, in England I have:
176 births/baptisms on the IGI
113 births/baptisms on the VRI
26 births/baptisms which are on both.
I may be understating the IGI figure by not recording those events that are
on the IGI but which were also on an alternative (better) source.
Actual results will vary greatly depending on geography: the VRI has
excellent coverage of IRONSIDEs in Dorset, but almost none of those in
London, Yorkshire, or Durham.
I already had about 75% of the Dorset baptisms from a correspondent who had
searched the registers and the level of agreement was very good, certainly
better than the IGI data.
Thank you for your reply, I really should study social history more!
My man only went into this work late in life he had been a Painter he was
born in 1853 and was working with his father learning the trade in 1871 he
was a painter, glazier and Gilder by 1881 he was a master painter and had
apprentice living with the family.
It was only when he married a second time in 1892 that he said his
occupation was Relieving officer, maybe climbing ladders had got too much
CLEMAS One-name Study
GOONS #3038, SOG #23093
reply to clemas(a)one-name.org
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Geoffrey Searle [mailto:email@example.com]
> Sent: 28 February 1999 21:51
> To: SOG-UK-L(a)rootsweb.com
> Subject: Re: [SOG-UK-L] RELIEVING OFFICER ?
> Hi Sandra,
> My understanding is that the Relieving Officer was a public
> official who helped
> toadminister relief to those in need pursuant to the Poor Laws.In fact my
> father was a relieving officer working for the London County
> Council when he
> married my mother in 1938. Believe it or not the Poor Laws
> cointinued in force
> until the reforms carried out after the war when National Assistance was
> introduced ( I think in 1948 at the same time as the National
> Health Service).
> I think at the time you are mentioning the duties you mention
> would have been
> the reponsibility of the Devon County Council (or possibly the local
> Borough).Although, reading your message again the Union concerned
> is probably
> the Union of parishes for the purposes of the Poor Laws and the
My understanding is that the Relieving Officer was a public official who helped
toadminister relief to those in need pursuant to the Poor Laws.In fact my
father was a relieving officer working for the London County Council when he
married my mother in 1938. Believe it or not the Poor Laws cointinued in force
until the reforms carried out after the war when National Assistance was
introduced ( I think in 1948 at the same time as the National Health Service).
I think at the time you are mentioning the duties you mention would have been
the reponsibility of the Devon County Council (or possibly the local
Borough).Although, reading your message again the Union concerned is probably
the Union of parishes for the purposes of the Poor Laws and the
workhouses.Sorry I cannot be more helpful, but I thought you would be
interested in this personal link. My father stayed in welfare all of his
working life in the East End of London . After the abolition of the poor laws
he went into children's welfare for many years; then later into mental welfare,
which was extremely stressful and then eventually became Assistant Director of
Social Services for one of the London Boroughs after the reorganisationb of
London government in 1965. I suppose you could say he saw "life in the raw"-
somewhat different to the relief of rural poverty with which your subject was
"Sandra Turner (by way of Geoffrey )" wrote:
> Can some one please help me with this. I have found someone who was a
> Relieving Officer and I have found that this is - An official who took
> charge of poor or insane persons not otherwise cared for.
> I would like to know more!
> He put this as his occupation in his marriage certificate in December 1892.
> In the 1902 Kellys directory in the SOG I have found him listed as a
> relieving officer No1 District, vaccination officer, Teignmouth District,
> Newton Abbot Union and
> in the year 1910 Kelly's directory he is still the relieving officer,
> vaccination officer, and now also the rgistra of births & Deaths Teignmouth
> Sub District, Newton Abbot Union.
> What exactly would his duties have been? would he have worked for the
> He was living in Teignmouth, Devon and was born in 1853.
> best wishes
> CLEMAS One-name Study
> and variants
> GOONS #3038, SOG #23093
> reply to clemas(a)one-name.org
Regards from Northamptonshire, Rose of the Shires,
Pat's remark about not baptising twice calls to mind the viking traders
who ported their boats to the Volga and thence down to Constantinople. The
zealous church there offered a free fine linen robe to any heathen seeking
baptism. Ready markets were found for these in the north-lands. When the
authorities cottoned on (sorry <G>) they reduced the length and fullnesss.
The vikings were outraged and one claimed he had been baptised 120 times and
had never been treated so meanly before!
The BVR cannot be compared with the IGI as all the data on the BVR
is NOT included in the IGI. This appears to be the latest way in which the
LDS Church is now making newly acquired records available. I believe there
will gradually be a continuing seriesof BVR as and when records are
collected by the Church. The records on the BVR are quite patchy as one
would expect - but there are 5 million of them and I have managed to find
two missing links in my own family. Sally
There is a review of this CD-ROM in the December issue of Computers in
How does it compare with the IGI for content?
48 Gough Way, Cambridge, CB3 9LN
Phone & Fax (01223) 354019
Re: your comments on the new wording of Banns in the ASB.
Does the fact that a church marriage have to take into account both the
civil law and any constraints imposed by the church? Certainly at one time
the church imposed greater restrictions (of consanguinity and affinity -
mostly in the latter I think) than the state - but is this true now?
Be interested in your comments.
my two volume Oxford Dictionary says that a gurnard is a
spiny fish, which you probably know. There is a little bit in italics which
says that it can also mean "soused" (pickled?) so maybe the person was
preserving things in vinegar............I don't know what it can be otherwise.
My reference to reason in law was merely taking a small swipe at the rather
prosaic language of the Alternative Service Book (actually I like some of
it!). The traditional wording of the banns included, "If any of you know
cause or just impediment". In the A.S.B. this becomes, "If you know any
reason in law". The effect is the same: if you have a valid reason to
prevent the marriage from being solemnised, you must stand up and say so.
If a marriage is by licence, whether common or special, banns are
unnecessary, and, in the case of a minor (I could say infant, especially to
annoy Geoff), consent is required.
I wonder where in the church Pat F. was sitting. Unless she was in the
chancel, the vicar had no business to say who could sit next to her.
Allocation of seats in the nave is a matter for the churchwardens, on
behalf of the bishop.
Thank you Jeremy,
Jeremy Wilkes wrote:
<I wonder whether Lizzie Love's marriage was preceded by banns.
That was indeed the case.
<If so, no consent from parent, guardian or court was needed. >
I have a vague memory of an uncle saying they'd asked the bishop. Might the
diocese have a record of that?
< ... the onus is on the objector to turn up and show cause (or just
That's what everyone was afraid of. Marriage was thought a good idea because
someone would be legally entitled to seek me if my mother arranged for my
disappearance. (it had been tried) My husband was a nice ordinary chap who
was quite unprepared for the melodramatic shenanigans of me and my *nearest
and weirdest*. It was all from another planet.
<As the A.S.B. had not been invented then, they did not have the boring
alternative of knowing any reason in law.>
So was my marriage legal? ... or valid? My mother claimed she could have it
annulled and my daughter declared illegitimate. Could she have pulled it
Yes I've managed to get some library news for you. The library has
just received PROB 11 registered copies of PCC Wills for various dates
between 1479 and 1850 but chiefly for the period 1805-1850. These are
unindexed but film copies of the PROB 11 calendars for them are on
order from the PRO. Interestingly these include the wills of Napoleon
New in the Bookshop
A Pocket Topography and gazetteer of England: Surrey
Extract of Pigots directory Volume 1, covering the county of Surrey.
Including a copy of the map which came with the volume. Facsimile,
1994, 34 pages. £3.95 plus 50p postage URL:
English Castles: A Guide by Counties
By Adrian Pettifer
Hardback, comprehensive guide to all medieval castles in England of
which something can still be seen today. Descriptions and often plans
of castles, which are listed alphabetically by County. 1995, 346
pages. £25 plus £2 postage URL: http://ww.sog.org.uk/acatalog/SoG_Bookshop_Online_History_38.html
Edward: Prince of Wales and Aquitaine
By Richard Barber
A biography of the Black Prince in which the author attempts to
reinvestigate the accepted view of the Prince as a model of Chivalry
and courtesy. Barber uses contemporary official sources and the
memoirs of Edward's colleagues at battle to reconstitute the Black
Prince's life. 1998, 298 pages. £16.99 plus £1 postage
The Word of a Prince: A life of Elizabeth I
By Maria Perry
Perry explores Elizabeth's papers to draw a portrait of her life. Most
of the material drawn upon had only been partially studied before so
this book throws fresh insights onto this most famous of Queens. 1995,
270 pages. £17.99 plus £1 postage URL: http://ww.sog.org.uk/acatalog/SoG_Bookshop_Online_Peerage___Royalty_88.html
UK inflation database for family historians- Value Version 2.0
By Barnet Tyrwhitt-Drake
New version 2 of this program. 32 bit program suitable for Windows
95/98/NT. New features include: Integrated Windows help file, Date
setting by preset buttons at 50 year intervals, Rapid changing of
dates and amounts with spin edit controls, Inflation data updated to
1998, inflation graphs can be zoomed and panned. £6.95 plus £1 postage
The chapel and the nation
Nonconformity and the local historian
By Michael R Watts
A look at the role the chapel, and nonconformity, has played in the
history and development of the English and Welsh nations. 1996, 46
pages. £3.95 plus 50p postage URL: http://ww.sog.org.uk/acatalog/SoG_Bookshop_Online_Nonconformity_74.html
New OS Maps from Alan Godfrey Maps
New recently published maps are:
Derby (North) 1899
Rothbury Forest 1866-73 (an inch to the mile)
Ipswich (SE) 1902
Selly Oak & Bournville 1903
All are available, priced at £1.95 plus 50p postage
Family History Monthly- March 1999
articles on: Tithe Records, Basic Latin, The Spithead Naval Mutiny,
Flintshire and its archives, West Middlesex FHS, The surnames Simpson
and Simmons £2.20 plus 50p postage URL:
Short Guide to records: second series: Guides 25-48
Edited by K M Thompson
Published by the Historical Association, this is a collection of shirt
papers on various types of records. Contents are: Churchwardens
accounts; Constables accounts; Overseers accounts; Settlement papers;
Apprenticeship and Bastardy Bonds; parish Registers; Archdeacons'
records; Bishops' registers; The 1699 return of nonconformist
conventicles; Probate accounts; Census returns of England and Wales;
The Lloyd George Finance act material; Assistant Poor law
commissioner's' correspondence; Pipe Rolls; Building plans; Ordnance
survey maps; Aerial photography for archaeology; Canal & Railway
plans; Fire Insurance plans; School log books; The 1851 religious
census; Coroner's inquest records; Manorial court rolls; Prison
registers and Prison hulk records. Each short paper examines the
origin, location and use of the type of record. 1997, 128 pages. £8
plus £1 postage
Domesday Book and the Local Historian
By Philip Morgan
Short little pamphlet outlining the usefulness of the Domesday Book to
local historians.1988, 44 pages. £2.95 plus 50p postage
Rural Housing: An historical approach
By Bob Machin
A guide to the historical study of the development of rural housing,
with plans and photographs. 1994, 40 pages. £2.50 plus 50p postage
Ultimate Family Tree Deluxe- UK Version
Is now available, priced at £38.30 plus VAT plus £3.50 postage
Criminal Register Indexes
Compiled by Stuart Tamblin
£4.99 plus 50p postage (UK)
Irish Roots- First Quarter 1999,
Articles on: The story of Stout, Irishmen on the crusades, Were your
folks from the Spindle city, de Valera's Paternity, Heritage centre
survey. £2 plus 50p postage URL:
Course and Lectures
The march course on Irish ancestors is filling up quickly. An advert
has just appeared in Irish Roots so you are advised to book up quickly
if you want to come. The course on using the Internet on 24 March is
now full. Tomorrow (Saturday) we have two courses. In the morning it
is a course on the Millennium Bug, with Iain Kerr (starts at 10.30am,
fee £6, £4.80 to members.) In the afternoon David Hawkings will give a
lecture on Some little known sources at the PRO, starting at 2.15pm
(fee £3 or £2.40). There are spaces on both courses so if you want to
come, be here in plenty of time and speak to the staff in the
The discussion group on the Macintosh is full but a repeat is now
going to take place on 13 March 1999. There are a few spaces left on
the repeat. For a full listing of events and courses see the Society's
We have a new member of staff here at the SoG. Last week Noel Lai-Kit
the accounting assistant left to take up a position elsewhere. June
Barnstaple started on Monday, hopefully she'll soon become another
face you'll all recognise
Hope you have a good weekend
Sales & Marketing Manager
Society of Genealogists
14 Charterhouse Buildings, LONDON, EC1M 7BA
T +44 171 253 5235 FAX +44 171 250 1800
Visit the bookshop on Line
What an Offer!! I have never seen a 16th Century WILL before, so anticipate
the one I have ordered, will indeed be gobbly goop to me! Robin in
From: SOG-UK-D-request(a)rootsweb.com <SOG-UK-D-request(a)rootsweb.com>
To: SOG-UK-D(a)rootsweb.com <SOG-UK-D(a)rootsweb.com>
Date: Friday, 26 February 1999 8:03
Subject: SOG-UK-D Digest V99 #48
From: Ancestor <jaypee.gene(a)virgin.net>
To: SOG-UK-L(a)rootsweb.com <SOG-UK-L(a)rootsweb.com>
Date: 24 February 1999 08:22
Subject: [SOG-UK-L] Re: Baptisms
As an un-baptised mortal I can speak from personal experience. I was married
in the CofE
and as being such an honest person admitted to not having been baptised (I
escaped total imersion
as an adult in an Ebenezer Baptist Chapel). As a result I needed the
permission of the Bishop, in this case the Archbishop of Canterbury. He was
quite happy so long as not an atheist (agnostic OK ! ).
Steve Chapman - Deepest Dorset
>Another characteristic of software like Outlook Express is that ........ it
tries to >detect a URL in the text of a message and format it as a
(clickable) link. If I type say my email address ....... it comes up blue
and underlined without me doing
Thank you for explaining this. I also use Microsoft Outlook and I wondered
how others achieved that blue, underlined text without using HTML/RTF. Many
mailing lists will not accept it in case subscribers use software that
cannot read it.
I was achieving it all the time without even realising it!
This offer is almost too good to be true! I have a couple of wills that I
really struggle with - any help wold be great.
4 Den Hill
> -----Original Message-----
> From: shelagh mason (by way of Geoffrey <lists(a)sog.org.uk>)
> Sent: 25 February 1999 09:11
> To: SOG-UK-L(a)rootsweb.com
> Subject: [SOG-UK-L] An offer to transcribe early English Wills
> Dear fellow SOG members.
> My mother, Mrs. Vera Maddison, had a hip replacement before Christmas and,
> with the intent of keeping her sane whilst almost immobile, I
> advertised on
> the GOONS and Kent FHS lists that she would transcribe Wills in
> English for
> people who were finding it impossible to read them. I refer to 16th-19th
> Century Wills, some of which are just a mess of utter squiggles to most
> human beings!
> Mum has just about dried up the GOONS and Kent FHS people, so I am
> extending this offer, hoping not to get absolutely inundated, to
> members of
> the SOG who will not of heard of it.
> What mum will do is provide a hand-written transcription, neatly
> spaced, of
> your Wills. Mother is a state pensioner, so an SAE would be required for
> the return of the will and the added transcription. Mum does not make a
> charge for this service (you are keeping her sane, remember!), but any
> little thank you normally goes down well, and some make her smile!
> Just in case you believe this offer is too good to be true, fellow members
> of the GOONS / Kent FHS on this list will, I have no doubt, be able to
> verify Mum does a descent job. Mum previously researched in Canterbury
> Cathedral archives 1 or 2 days a week for the past 12+ years on
> my behalf -
> until her hips got the better of her, that is...
> If you would like some transcriptions, please would you e-mail me here at
> home (I check my e-mail twice a day, before and after work), and
> I will let
> you know where to send them.
> Regards to you all.
> Shelagh Mason
> Shelagh Mason
> Stead/Steed One-Name Study (Worldwide)
> Canterbury, Kent, England.
> shelagh(a)fricker.u-net.com or:
Hello Shelagh I would be delighted to receive some help with a will. if
you can cope with the rush do let me know Regards David
from Harpenden Herts UK
Researching HOLLAND,WESTAWAY,SMITH[in East Herts and
From: shelagh mason (by way of Geoffrey <lists(a)sog.org.uk>)
To: SOG-UK-L(a)rootsweb.com <SOG-UK-L(a)rootsweb.com>
Date: Thursday, February 25, 1999 10:31 AM
Subject: [SOG-UK-L] An offer to transcribe early English Wills
>Dear fellow SOG members.
>My mother, Mrs. Vera Maddison, had a hip replacement before Christmas and,
>with the intent of keeping her sane whilst almost immobile, I advertised on
>the GOONS and Kent FHS lists that she would transcribe Wills in English for
>people who were finding it impossible to read them. I refer to 16th-19th
>Century Wills, some of which are just a mess of utter squiggles to most
>Mum has just about dried up the GOONS and Kent FHS people, so I am
>extending this offer, hoping not to get absolutely inundated, to members of
>the SOG who will not of heard of it.
>What mum will do is provide a hand-written transcription, neatly spaced, of
>your Wills. Mother is a state pensioner, so an SAE would be required for
>the return of the will and the added transcription. Mum does not make a
>charge for this service (you are keeping her sane, remember!), but any
>little thank you normally goes down well, and some make her smile!
>Just in case you believe this offer is too good to be true, fellow members
>of the GOONS / Kent FHS on this list will, I have no doubt, be able to
>verify Mum does a descent job. Mum previously researched in Canterbury
>Cathedral archives 1 or 2 days a week for the past 12+ years on my behalf -
>until her hips got the better of her, that is...
>If you would like some transcriptions, please would you e-mail me here at
>home (I check my e-mail twice a day, before and after work), and I will let
>you know where to send them.
>Regards to you all.
>Stead/Steed One-Name Study (Worldwide)
>Canterbury, Kent, England.