Although the DNA connection "didn't work out" for Mr. Marquis and his
Clifford Welsh connection of Poyntz-Pons-FitsPons, the connection via
etymology, albiet not exactly a dead ringer, still remains.
The Poythress surname via "Poy" and "thr" has fairly obvious Cambrian
"syllable" roots. The "ap" surname prefix ("son of" same as
"Mc" for the
Irish and "Mac" for the Scots) was customarily "modernized" by
the "a" and making the "P" (and its sound)the first letter of the
modernized surname. The place name of Powys and the fairly common
Celtic "porth" are suggestive.
Also, the Newent-Dymock-Fownhope part of Gloucester is smack on the busy
Welsh sheep-drover route from Wales to London. Records of the time say
that five times as much stock was butchered in Newent ("Noent" in the
Domesday Book of 1086) as in Gloucester which was five times the size of
Newent. Suggested I suppose is the case for "how did they get there?"
On the other hand, Poitiers has a claim via the notion that a 12th
century Norman brought over his stonemasons and builders from Poitiers
to build the cathedral at Hereford and the origin place name became
personalized for the craftsmen in the Hereford area.
It's been a while since we flogged this one. Anyone have any new ideas?
I'm a tad inclined to option "A" although I'm not sure I'd make book
From: Barbara P. Neal [mailto:email@example.com]
Sent: Saturday, January 08, 2005 7:44 PM
Subject: Re: Clifford-Poyntz DNA Study & Poythress surname
Thanks, Bill. Neat story about the Pons name & about the castle in
Wales. Yes, I, too assume there is no connection to Poythress. Our
Poythress ancestors were in the Gloucestershire, England area at least
in the late 1500s & in the 1600s; I'd have to dig a bit to find how much
earlier we know of them being there. My main focus is on trying to tie
together the various lines here in the states, and how they all relate
back to Francis Poythress, who came from England to Virginia in the
Cheers, Barbara Neal
1/8/2005 WMarq69070(a)aol.com wrote:
The Clifford name before Clifford was Pons and the Poyntz name before
Poyntz was Pons so they are the exact same family.
Walter FitsPons FitsPons married Margaret DeToney and her dowry was a
Welsh castle on a Cliff overlooking a Ford and Walter became Walter
down thru the years it is now just Clifford.
But since there is no matches to your family I'm assuming there is no
Cheers Bill Marquis
==== POYTHRESS Mailing List ====
Poythress Genealogy Research Web