Barbara and Al, thank you for your confirmation that we should treat
this census entry as David Poythress. Let's get this noted and nailed
down now so later researchers will not miss it!
And Al, thank you for the guiding questions.
*  My guess, not sure, is that this is a Baily Payton. It does
look like born in Virginia. There appear to be quite a number of
Payton/Peyton names in the region. In absence of other information,
I am not inclined to chase him as one of ours.
*  Yes, that William Dortch is interesting. Sometime we should
pull together all the bondmen of our first half 19th century Va and
NC marriages. The patterns will be rich, I know. Unfortunately
patterns do not relations make. But I know the circumstantial
evidence is there.
*  I would be glad to help expand the study of David. I am not a
David researcher and have only tidbits, but I will be glad to
contribute as I can. I'm sure there are others who could contribute
So sorry for the belated response!
--Lyn Poythress Baird
On 4/28/2019 1:41 PM, Albert Tims wrote:
Barbara (Poythress Wolfe), Lyn Baird and List,
Barbara, thank you. Your quick identification of Oliver Dortch
further confirms Lyn’s analysis since Sarah (Sally) is shown in
Delir’s household and her cousin Oliver is shown in Charles David’s
household a few households away in the same neighborhood. (By the
way, Oliver is coded as “Jewett” in Ancestry’s census record, but the
script is quite easily read as Oliver. I just added an alternative
spelling for his given name as Oliver.)
We don’t see any other census record for David in 1870 and know that
David continued to live in the area and died September 26, 1876, as
documented in Barbara’s study of David Poythress. Lyn nailed it!
Questions/issues arising from Lyn’s new finding and Barbara’s existing
1. Does anyone have thoughts/theories about who “Baily” Poytress
(Nutbush: age 16, male, white, mail carrier, born VA) might be based
on the close proximity and the 1870 time period? I believe he is a
stray inclusion. Here’s why:
He is coded on Ancestry’s census records as Bailey Payton, not
Poytess. And he is incorrectly coded as born in VA, but comparing the
script for NC and VA with others on the same census page, I believe he
was born in North Carolina. So, I think there is a case to be made
that he should be removed from the Poythress census compilation— or
that we should add a notation suggesting he may be a Payton born in
NC. I’m not expert at deciphering handwriting but I’d agree that
Payton comes much closer that Poytess.
Barbara — If possible, could you verify the date you show for Charles
David in Nutbush in your study? You show his DOB at 1849 but the
following entry seems inconsistent: " In the 1850 North Carolina
census (Nutbush Township, Post Office: Manson) he is listed as age 20,
a dry good retail merchant, birth place Virginia. He is enumerated
with Steven Dortch who is 26, clerk in the dry goods store, age 26.”
I just looked at his record and see what you cite is for 1870, not
1850. I’d like to correct the typo— with you permission.
Also, your study indicates it was a Steven Dortch, age 26, living in
his household, but as noted above, it sure looks like it may have been
Oliver. Do you have additional Dortch family information that might
clarify if “Jewett” or “Oliver” or “Steven” is correct? I can sorta
see why Steven might be a reading of the script but just a few
households above is another Steven and there is no real similarity —
I’m fairly confident, especially with the information you just
provided, that Oliver is our man.
2. Here’s a gem you have in your current study that might be another
connecting dot, so to speak. Is the William Dortch (father of Oliver)
related to the William Dortch mentioned as living in the household of
Benjamin Stanley? If so, does this further strengthen the possibility
that David E. Poythress is an otherwise undocumented son of Lewis
"David’s second family with Sally Dortch: Charles David, Lucy M.,
Sallie, and Alice M.
(The two sisters, Lucy and Alice, married two Twisdale brothers of
Indiana Peru, Charles David’s wife.)
/In 1860 a William Dortch was living in the household of Benjamin
Stanley. He does not show up in that household’s members because he
was added at the end of another page, as being omitted. This
connection was made by a Dortch family researcher and posted to the
Poythress mailing list in 2004./
Brunswick County, VA, Meherrin Dist. HH 22 – Wm. Dortch (omitted), age
17, male, farm laborer, born VA. Both pages with entries for HH 22
are documented below:
Stanley HH 22 1860 Federal Census
The significance of this it that it puts a Dortch in the household of
a known daughter of Lewis Poythress, Sr. This further strengthens the
theory that Lewis Poythress was David’s father — this is as yet
unproven however.” The longstanding association between David
Poythress and Rebecca (Poythress) Stanley seems well evidenced by this
record in Barbara’s study of David E. Poythress:/ 21 Jan 1832 Consent
by Lewis and Rebecca Poythress for daughter Rebecca to marry Benjamin
Standley. Witness: David Poythress. Ibid. 1831-1835 A-Z Reel 68 p.
265-269. ( Note: Census records spell as Benjamin Stanley.)/
3. As for how best to reflect Lyn’s new contribution, I would hope
that Lyn would agree to work with you (us) to incorporate his study of
the census records into your study and that you might weave it in
together what you may have about young Oliver’s family and link it to
your insights quoted in the passage below.
This approach would be more helpful for researchers than posting a
separate page or leaving Lyn’s efforts on the mailing list. Assuming
none object, I see that someone named Tom Wolf added a “David”
notation back in 2012 to the Delia given name to the Ancestry site.
I’ll add one to our census compilation. And I’ll see if same can/has
been done to the record at FamilySearch. If you and Lyn are game,
we’ll expand the current study of David. I welcome further advice.
4. Barbara Poythress Neal might be able to tell us if the Y-DNA
project she has administered for many years offers any evidence to
suggest that male descendants of David Poythress are genetically
related within a few generations to male descendants of Lewis
Poythress — without revealing any individuals who may be part of the
study beyond confirming their established lineages to these two men?
I don’t know if this is possible but it could help advance or dispel
the as yet unproven case that David was Rebecca’s older brother.
> On Apr 27, 2019, at 9:48 PM, BARBARA WOLFE via POYTHRESS
> <poythress(a)rootsweb.com <mailto:email@example.com>> wrote:
> Thank you for your ‘eagle eye’ in detecting the census record
> regarding “Delir” Poythress. I am in perfect agreement with your
> My Dortch records show that Sarah Dortch and one William Dortch were
> siblings. William had a son named Oliver born in 1843, Nutbush,
> Warren, NC. He and Charles David (born 1849) therefore were first
> cousins. The dates of their births coincide with the census too. So
> again, many thanks!
> Al, how should I add this to the study of David Poythress? So
> exciting to put another piece of the puzzle together.
> Barbara (BPW)
>> On Apr 27, 2019, at 9:35 AM, Albert Tims via POYTHRESS
>> <poythress(a)rootsweb.com <mailto:firstname.lastname@example.org>> wrote:
>> Excellent. There may be even more evidence in the census record you
>> highlight from the North Carolina census compilation posted to the
>> Poythress site
>> I agree with your deduction. In addition, I am surprised we missed
>> noting that the known son of David E. Poythress, Charles David
>> Poythress, is a living just a few households away from this “Delir”
>> Poythress. And a living with Charles David is Oliver Dortch (born
>> VA) — seemingly working as a clerk in Charles David’s dry goods
>> store. I wonder if the Dortch researchers would know if/how this
>> young Oliver Dortch might be related to David’s wife - cousin,
>> younger brother?
>> I think this further strengthens the case you present. I also note
>> here mention of a “Baily” Poytess nearby — a mail carrier, also born
>> in VA — age 16. I wonder if we might sort out if this is an
>> unidentified Poythress or another questionable census entry?
>> So, would you like a note added to this census entry or and/or
>> elsewhere? I think it would be helpful to link your compilation to
>> the census entry. I can go to the Ancestry site and add a note to
>> the census record for Delia — unless there is a case to be made for
>> holding off on something like that.
>> Barbara Poythress Wolfe developed the study of David Poythress we
>> have posted — perhaps she’ll consider adding your analysis to that
>> On behalf of all of us who trace family lines back to David
>> Poythress (where we remain stuck for lack of any verified evidence
>> of his parentage) — thank you! I think this is a meaningful
>> clarification and may open new avenues of study, especially if we
>> can find anything more about Oliver Dortch and young “Baiily”
>> Poytess. I posted an analysis of David’s connection to Weldon
>> Edwards and his role as an overseer in Warren County NC here:
>> I believe this may shed some light on David’s employers and
>> network of associations.
>> Warren County
>> HH 35 – Nutbush Twp., page 520, 8 June
>> Poythress, Chas. D. , age 20 male, white, dry goods retail merchant,
>> value per. Est.
>> 1000, born VA
>> Dortch, Oliver , age 26, male, white, clerk dry goods store, born VA
>> HH 41 – Nutbush Twp., page 521, 9 June
>> Poytess, Baily , age 16, male, white, mail carrier, born VA
>> HH 26 – Smith Creek Twp., page 640, 9 July
>> Poythress,? Delir , age 63, male, white, farmer, value per. Est.
>> 300, born VA,
>> cannot read and write
>> , Sarah , age 45, female, white, born VA,
>> , Lucie , age 16, female, white, born VA
>> , Alice , age 12, female, white, born VA, attends school
>>> On Apr 27, 2019, at 8:47 AM, Lyn Baird <lyn.baird(a)gmail.com
>>> <mailto:email@example.com>> wrote:
>>> we have this entry:
>>> HH 26 – Smith Creek Twp., page 640, 9 July
>>> Poythress,? Delir , age 63, male, white, farmer, value per. Est.
>>> 300, born VA, cannot read and write
>>> , Sarah , age 45, female, white, born VA,
>>> , Lucie , age 16, female, white, born VA
>>> , Alice , age 12, female, white, born VA, attends school
>>> I wish to propose or re-assert this must be David Poythress (b.
>>> Mecklenburg Co., Va. Ca. 1807; on David Poythress see
>>> for more). Also I suggest we add a note to this effect at this
>>> entry at
>>> Michael Tutor clearly agreed. In his 12/5/2005 message to the
>>> listserve containing a vast number of Poythress census entries, he
>>> reports this entry as “David Poythress” without comment otherwise.
>>> But really this needs some comment, because the handwriting for
>>> “David” is really not decipherable – something like “D _ l i a” or
>>> “D _ _ i d” is all that can be extracted. The indexer interpreted
>>> as “Delia”, which turns out to be uselessly misleading. Certainly
>>> this tripped me up; I missed at first this was David Poythress.
>>> And I know from looking back at the listserve archive it has
>>> tripped up others in the past. For researchers who may come after
>>> us, I would like here to attempt to put to rest that this must be
>>> the above David Poythress.
>>> To see this, let’s look across the censuses at the entries for the
>>> David Poythress household:
>>> Census 1850 Va. Mecklenburg household 134, 98th regiment
>>> Census 1860 N.C. Warren household 425, post office Warrenton
>>> Census 1870 N.C. Warren household 26, Smith Creek, post office Ridgeway
>>> Census 1880 N.C. Warren household 399, Nutbush
>>> Entries for David Poythress:
>>> 1850: Poythress, David; age 44; male; born Virginia
>>> 1860: Poythress, D.; age 53; male; born Mecklenburg Virginia
>>> 1870: Poythress, D _ _ _ _; age 63; male; white; born Virginia
>>> Entries for Sarah (Sally) Dortch Poythress
>>> 1850: Poythress, Sally; age 32; female; born Virginia
>>> 1860: Poythress, S. R.; age 40; female; born Mecklenburg Virginia
>>> 1870: Poythress, Sarah; age 45; female; white; born Virginia
>>> 1880: Poythress, Sallie; white; female; age 60; widowed; born
>>> Virginia; parents born Virginia (in household of India Poythress;
>>> relation to head = mother)
>>> Entry for Lucy Poythress
>>> 1860: Poythress, L. M.; age 7; female; born Mecklenburg Virginia
>>> 1870: Poythress, Lucie; age 16; female; white; born Virginia
>>> Entry for Alice Poythress
>>> 1860: Poythress, A. M.; age 4; female; born Mecklenburg Virginia
>>> 1870: Poythress, Alice; age 12; female; white; born Virginia
>>> For me this shows beyond doubt that this 1870 household is that of
>>> David Poythress. We know too much about Poythresses in this region
>>> at this time to imagine this could be a household of some otherwise
>>> unknown white, male Poythress, born in Virginia, with the given
>>> name of DELIA -- say it is not so. I am discounting the age
>>> irregularities, as we see this or worse all the time in the census
>>> records. Comments from others are welcomed – especially
>>> descendants and real researchers of the David Poythress line, which
>>> I am not.
>>> For reference, the entry is cited as follows on familysearch.org
: 12 April 2016),
>>> Delia Poythress, North Carolina, United States; citing p. 4, family
>>> 26, NARA microfilm publication M593 (Washington D.C.: National
>>> Archives and Records Administration, n.d.); FHL microfilm 552,663.
>>> Are we agreed to nail down this entry as David Poythress? Or what
>>> am I missing? Please comment. Thanks. --Lyn
>>> Visit www.poythress.org
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>> Visit www.poythress.org
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Terms and Conditions:
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and our loyal RootsWeb community
> Visit www.poythress.org
> Surname research resources and studies.
> Email preferences: http://bit.ly/rootswebpref
> Privacy Statement: https://ancstry.me/2JWBOdY
Terms and Conditions:
> Rootsweb Blog: http://rootsweb.blog
> RootsWeb is funded and supported by Ancestry.com
and our loyal RootsWeb community