I agree with Megan, Rhian and Jim.
Officials would - with very little consistency - formally record Welsh
names with their English equivalents (in the same way as English given
names were previously recorded in the official Latin of the Church). I know
of several relatively recent 'hangovers' of this convention with people
known as Dafydd or Gwilym throughout their lives, and on all other
documentation, being formally registered by their parents (possibly at the
suggestion of the Registrar) as David or William.
I think it's quite conceivable that one enumerator might record an Ifan as
John, while another might record the same person as Evan.
I've also seen surnames change by a similar process. The family name may
have been established as, say, Thomas for several generations but because
the patronymic system was still in use informally the son of a Dafydd/David
Thomas and his family become Davies. Sometimes it's only in one census, but
it can change permanently - sometimes only for the descendants of one son.
Sara
On 4 Oct 2015 08:19, <powys-request(a)rootsweb.com> wrote:
Today's Topics:
1. Re: re Evan Jenkins (Jim Fisher)
Message: 1
Date: Sat, 03 Oct 2015 20:04:23 +0100
From: "Jim Fisher" <ejf(a)jimella.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [POWYS] re Evan Jenkins
To: <powys(a)rootsweb.com>
Message-ID: <561026B7.11450.9A1AAF(a)ejf.jimella.co.uk>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
I agree with Rhian on this, but from a completely different direction. I
looked
up those meanings, which I found surprising. I was prompted to do so
by
finding
an ancestor who was sometimes referred to as Ieuan and at other times
as
James
(not John). I have no doubt that it was the same person, although it
was
a very
long time ago and further north-west (Caernarfon area).
In general though, I think there is a need to distinguish between names
which
may be regarded as alternative names for the same person (e.g. Dick
and
Richard
to take an English example) and names which have the same or similar
original
meanings but are not considered as alternatives for the same person
(e.g.
Jane,
Jean and Joan to take another English example). I suspect that these
Welsh/English equivalents usually come into the latter category, not the
former.
Jim Fisher
On 2 Oct 2015 at 21:55, Rhian Williams via wrote:
> Hi Megan and Marilyn
>
> I'm not sure I'd totally agree with the statement that John and Evan are
> considered to be the same name. I can see the idea behind this - if you
were
to
> look up a site with the meanings of Welsh names and looked up
Ifan
(Evan) and
> also Ieuan you would be told that both mean John, as does the
name Ioan
(as in
> the Gospel of John). However, I'm not so certain that in
Wales people
considered
> them all to be the same name. I have in my family, and have seen
in
other
> families, two brothers in the same household, one called Evan
and the
other
> called John, without any awareness of duplication. Neither do I
remember ever
> meeting anyone who had the name John and was called familiarly
Evan or
vice
> versa. Unless maybe it's a regional thing?
>
> I wonder what other people think? I'm open to contradiction!
>
> Rhian
>