Dear Hilary and others,
My eye was caught by this Latin Inscription.
I have been looking for a Delahay connection to the Williams of
Bryndu, Bronllys near Talgarth and this suggests there may be one.
In my husband's family there is an Elizabeth Williams who married
Roger Williams (born about 1833) both of Llanddew. They later lived at
Bryndu.
Previously a Thomas Williams lived at Bryndu and I would dearly like
to know if he was related, perhaps Roger's father? I have not been
able to find out anything about him.
The Delahay connection is this: Roger and Elizabeth's eldest son was
another Roger Williams and his eldest son was called Roger DELAHAY
Williams and his eldest son was Roger Fritz Delahay Williams.
So I am wondering if the Thomas Williams memorial in Talgarth referrs
to the Thomas Williams of Bryndu. In which case this looks like very
circumstantial evidence of a link between Roger and Thomas - but what
was it?
Do you have further info on Thomas? Did he have a son Roger (born c.1833)?
Phyllis
Message: 4
Date: Fri, 25 Jun 2010 11:27:22 -0400
From: rufhay(a)aol.com
Subject: Re: [POWYS] Breconshire: Latin Inscription from Talgarth
Church
To: powys(a)rootsweb.com
Message-ID: <8CCE2920A9B4374-1550-575C(a)webmail-m003.sysops.aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
This is my interpretation of the inscription, but I would not guarantee its accuracy
100%. If anyone can see errors, I would be happy to stand corrected. It seems quite an
informative inscription & useful genealogically. I've anglicised the word order
& added some punctuation and spacing, to make the sense clearer.
"Nearby are buried the remains of Edward Wynter of Tredustan in this parish,
gentleman, and of Anne, his wife.
He was the son of William Wynter, Esquire, of Llanfihangel Talyllyn, in this county, and
of his wife Eleonor, the daughter of Walter James, Esquire, of Tre-iver [?] in the County
of Monmouth.
She was the daughter of Thomas Williams, Esquire, of that town, and Anna his wife, the
daughter of Thomas Delahay, Esquire, of Urishay in the County of Hereford.
He died on 25th January 1737, aged 79, and she died on the 11th March, aged 74."
Please note: in some places it seems that there has been mistranscription of the Latin -
or else the original contained grammatical mistakes in Latin (it's unlikely that the
mason who made the tablet understood Latin, after all). Eg.near the beginning it should
read "et Annae uxoris suae" - and of Anne, his wife, (this is a very common
phrase in old PRs). There are several more instances of an o where an a would make more
sense, and a few other places where I have guessed at the Latin of the original, because
the Latin as quoted would be incorrect.
Some common abbreviations are used. eg "in Com", for in Comitate (in the
County....) and Ar - for Armiger, or armigeris = a person entitled to bear arms. This
could be translated in various ways, eg, gentleman, Esquire - ie. a person of high social
standing.
Hope this helps.
Ruth
-----Original Message-----
From: Hilary or Owen Williams <williams.o.h(a)ic24.net>
To: powys(a)rootsweb.com
Sent: Fri, 25 Jun 2010 10:36
Subject: [POWYS] Breconshire: Latin Inscription from Talgarth Church
Hi Listers,
I wonder whether anyone would be kind enough to translate this Latin
emorial Tablet which was inside Talgarth Church for me please.
"Juxta deposita Reliquia Edwardi Wynter de Tredustan in hac parochia Gen et
nnoc uxoris suoe. Hic filius Gulieline Wynter de Llanfihangel talyllyn Ar.
n hoc Com et Eleonoroe Ux. suoe filioe Walteri James de Tre-ivor in Com.
onmouth, Ar. illa filia Thomoe Williams de hac Villa Ar et Annoe Ux suoe
ilise Thome Delahay de Urishay in Com. Hereford, Ar Hic vita decessit 25
an., 1737, anno 79, Illa vita decessit 11 die Martii anno 74, aetatis
uoe."
Many thanks,
Hilary Williams
==================
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www.jlb2005.plus.com/powyslist.htm
------------------------------
o unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to POWYS-request(a)rootsweb.com
ith the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of
he message
Please note: in some places it seems that there has been mistranscription of the Latin -
or else the original contained grammatical mistakes in Latin (it's unlikely that the
mason who made the tablet understood Latin, after all). Eg.near the beginning it should
read "et Annae uxoris suae" - and of Anne, his wife, (this is a very common
phrase in old PRs). There are several more instances of an o where an a would make more
sense, and a few other places where I have guessed at the Latin of the original, because
the Latin as quoted would be incorrect.
Some common abbreviations are used. eg "in Com", for in Comitate (in the
County....) and Ar - for Armiger, or armigeris = a person entitled to bear arms. This
could be translated in various ways, eg, gentleman, Esquire - ie. a person of high social
standing.
Hope this helps.
Ruth
-----Original Message-----
From: Hilary or Owen Williams <williams.o.h(a)ic24.net>
To: powys(a)rootsweb.com
Sent: Fri, 25 Jun 2010 10:36
Subject: [POWYS] Breconshire: Latin Inscription from Talgarth Church
Hi Listers,
I wonder whether anyone would be kind enough to translate this Latin
emorial Tablet which was inside Talgarth Church for me please.
"Juxta deposita Reliquia Edwardi Wynter de Tredustan in hac parochia Gen et
nnoc uxoris suoe. Hic filius Gulieline Wynter de Llanfihangel talyllyn Ar.
n hoc Com et Eleonoroe Ux. suoe filioe Walteri James de Tre-ivor in Com.
onmouth, Ar. illa filia Thomoe Williams de hac Villa Ar et Annoe Ux suoe
ilise Thome Delahay de Urishay in Com. Hereford, Ar Hic vita decessit 25
an., 1737, anno 79, Illa vita decessit 11 die Martii anno 74, aetatis
uoe."
Many thanks,
Hilary Williams
==================
isit the Powys Mailing List webpage at:
www.jlb2005.plus.com/powyslist.htm
------------------------------
o unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to POWYS-request(a)rootsweb.com
ith the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of
he message
------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Fri, 25 Jun 2010 17:27:29 +0100
From: "Hilary or Owen Williams" <williams.o.h(a)ic24.net>
Subject: Re: [POWYS] Breconshire: Latin Inscription from Talgarth
Church
To: <powys(a)rootsweb.com>
Message-ID: <005801cb1483$4e9a08a0$0300a8c0@Desktop>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Hi Ruth,
Thank you Ruth, that is fantastic.
This is another son of my ancestors William and Eleanor Wynter. They were
Armigers and Tre-ivor and the Jameses of Monmouth were, like the Wynters,
faithful Catholics. Tre-ivor, St Maughans Parish, had a secret place for
clandestine RC worship within its attics.
I don't think that this memorial exists now. It is mentioned by Theo Jones
and this version came from Old Brecknock Chips 1886-87 by Edwin Davies.
I am having great fun sorting out my Wynter ancestors and have learned a
great deal about life, politics and religion of the time. If anyone wants
guidance on this period of family research, do get in touch with me. There
is so much information out there for any one researching gentry families of
the 16th centuries onward
All the best,
Hilary
-----Original Message-----
From: powys-bounces(a)rootsweb.com [mailto:powys-bounces@rootsweb.com] On
Behalf Of rufhay(a)aol.com
Sent: 25 June 2010 16:27
To: powys(a)rootsweb.com
Subject: Re: [POWYS] Breconshire: Latin Inscription from Talgarth Church
This is my interpretation of the inscription, but I would not guarantee its
accuracy 100%. If anyone can see errors, I would be happy to stand
corrected. It seems quite an informative inscription & useful
genealogically. I've anglicised the word order & added some punctuation and
spacing, to make the sense clearer.
"Nearby are buried the remains of Edward Wynter of Tredustan in this parish,
gentleman, and of Anne, his wife.
He was the son of William Wynter, Esquire, of Llanfihangel Talyllyn, in this
county, and of his wife Eleonor, the daughter of Walter James, Esquire, of
Tre-iver [?] in the County of Monmouth.
She was the daughter of Thomas Williams, Esquire, of that town, and Anna his
wife, the daughter of Thomas Delahay, Esquire, of Urishay in the County of
Hereford.
He died on 25th January 1737, aged 79, and she died on the 11th March, aged
74."
Please note: in some places it seems that there has been mistranscription of
the Latin - or else the original contained grammatical mistakes in Latin
(it's unlikely that the mason who made the tablet understood Latin, after
all). Eg.near the beginning it should read "et Annae uxoris suae" - and of
Anne, his wife, (this is a very common phrase in old PRs). There are several
more instances of an o where an a would make more sense, and a few other
places where I have guessed at the Latin of the original, because the Latin
as quoted would be incorrect.
Some common abbreviations are used. eg "in Com", for in Comitate (in the
County....) and Ar - for Armiger, or armigeris = a person entitled to bear
arms. This could be translated in various ways, eg, gentleman, Esquire -
ie. a person of high social standing.
Hope this helps.
Ruth
-----Original Message-----
From: Hilary or Owen Williams <williams.o.h(a)ic24.net>
To: powys(a)rootsweb.com
Sent: Fri, 25 Jun 2010 10:36
Subject: [POWYS] Breconshire: Latin Inscription from Talgarth Church
Hi Listers,
I wonder whether anyone would be kind enough to translate this Latin
emorial Tablet which was inside Talgarth Church for me please.
"Juxta deposita Reliquia Edwardi Wynter de Tredustan in hac parochia Gen et
nnoc uxoris suoe. Hic filius Gulieline Wynter de Llanfihangel talyllyn Ar.
n hoc Com et Eleonoroe Ux. suoe filioe Walteri James de Tre-ivor in Com.
onmouth, Ar. illa filia Thomoe Williams de hac Villa Ar et Annoe Ux suoe
ilise Thome Delahay de Urishay in Com. Hereford, Ar Hic vita decessit 25
an., 1737, anno 79, Illa vita decessit 11 die Martii anno 74, aetatis
uoe."
Many thanks,
Hilary Williams
==================
isit the Powys Mailing List webpage at:
www.jlb2005.plus.com/powyslist.htm
------------------------------
o unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to
POWYS-request(a)rootsweb.com
ith the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of
he message
Please note: in some places it seems that there has been mistranscription of
the Latin - or else the original contained grammatical mistakes in Latin
(it's unlikely that the mason who made the tablet understood Latin, after
all). Eg.near the beginning it should read "et Annae uxoris suae" - and of
Anne, his wife, (this is a very common phrase in old PRs). There are several
more instances of an o where an a would make more sense, and a few other
places where I have guessed at the Latin of the original, because the Latin
as quoted would be incorrect.
Some common abbreviations are used. eg "in Com", for in Comitate (in the
County....) and Ar - for Armiger, or armigeris = a person entitled to bear
arms. This could be translated in various ways, eg, gentleman, Esquire -
ie. a person of high social standing.
Hope this helps.
Ruth
-----Original Message-----
From: Hilary or Owen Williams <williams.o.h(a)ic24.net>
To: powys(a)rootsweb.com
Sent: Fri, 25 Jun 2010 10:36
Subject: [POWYS] Breconshire: Latin Inscription from Talgarth Church
Hi Listers,
I wonder whether anyone would be kind enough to translate this Latin
emorial Tablet which was inside Talgarth Church for me please.
"Juxta deposita Reliquia Edwardi Wynter de Tredustan in hac parochia Gen et
nnoc uxoris suoe. Hic filius Gulieline Wynter de Llanfihangel talyllyn Ar.
n hoc Com et Eleonoroe Ux. suoe filioe Walteri James de Tre-ivor in Com.
onmouth, Ar. illa filia Thomoe Williams de hac Villa Ar et Annoe Ux suoe
ilise Thome Delahay de Urishay in Com. Hereford, Ar Hic vita decessit 25
an., 1737, anno 79, Illa vita decessit 11 die Martii anno 74, aetatis
uoe."
Many thanks,
Hilary Williams
==================
isit the Powys Mailing List webpage at:
www.jlb2005.plus.com/powyslist.htm
------------------------------
o unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to
POWYS-request(a)rootsweb.com
ith the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of
he message
===================
Visit the Powys Mailing List webpage at:
www.jlb2005.plus.com/powyslist.htm
-------------------------------
To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to
POWYS-request(a)rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in
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------------------------------
Message: 6
Date: Fri, 25 Jun 2010 19:45:58 +0100
From: "Sue" <sue.cartref(a)virgin.net>
Subject: Re: [POWYS] Breconshire: Latin Inscription from Talgarth
Church
To: <powys(a)rootsweb.com>
Message-ID: <DF17AB4DED8244C5831B6AD53C3AF611@your447023ae6b>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
reply-type=original
Hi Hilary,
This may sound strange but reading your e-mail about the Latin inscription i
realised that I have a Winter forebear. My cousin 4 x removed married an
Elizabeth Davies but apparently her real name was Winter. She was the
illegitimate daughter of Margaret Winter of Crickadarn. Margaret died of
smallpox in 1858 aged 29 leaving Elizabeth who went to live with Margaret's
older sister who had married David Davies. Elizabeth then used the name
Davies. She was brought up in the School house at Battle, Brecon.
With best wishes
Sue in Suffolk
----- Original Message -----
From: "Hilary or Owen Williams" <williams.o.h(a)ic24.net>
To: <powys(a)rootsweb.com>
Sent: Friday, June 25, 2010 5:27 PM
Subject: Re: [POWYS] Breconshire: Latin Inscription from Talgarth Church
> Hi Ruth,
>
> Thank you Ruth, that is fantastic.
>
> This is another son of my ancestors William and Eleanor Wynter. They were
> Armigers and Tre-ivor and the Jameses of Monmouth were, like the Wynters,
> faithful Catholics. Tre-ivor, St Maughans Parish, had a secret place for
> clandestine RC worship within its attics.
>
> I don't think that this memorial exists now. It is mentioned by Theo Jones
> and this version came from Old Brecknock Chips 1886-87 by Edwin Davies.
>
> I am having great fun sorting out my Wynter ancestors and have learned a
> great deal about life, politics and religion of the time. If anyone wants
> guidance on this period of family research, do get in touch with me. There
> is so much information out there for any one researching gentry families
> of
> the 16th centuries onward
>
> All the best,
> Hilary
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: powys-bounces(a)rootsweb.com [mailto:powys-bounces@rootsweb.com] On
> Behalf Of rufhay(a)aol.com
> Sent: 25 June 2010 16:27
> To: powys(a)rootsweb.com
> Subject: Re: [POWYS] Breconshire: Latin Inscription from Talgarth Church
>
>
>
>
> This is my interpretation of the inscription, but I would not guarantee
> its
> accuracy 100%. If anyone can see errors, I would be happy to stand
> corrected. It seems quite an informative inscription & useful
> genealogically. I've anglicised the word order & added some punctuation
> and
> spacing, to make the sense clearer.
>
> "Nearby are buried the remains of Edward Wynter of Tredustan in this
> parish,
> gentleman, and of Anne, his wife.
>
> He was the son of William Wynter, Esquire, of Llanfihangel Talyllyn, in
> this
> county, and of his wife Eleonor, the daughter of Walter James, Esquire, of
> Tre-iver [?] in the County of Monmouth.
>
> She was the daughter of Thomas Williams, Esquire, of that town, and Anna
> his
> wife, the daughter of Thomas Delahay, Esquire, of Urishay in the County of
> Hereford.
>
> He died on 25th January 1737, aged 79, and she died on the 11th March,
> aged
> 74."
>
>
>
> Please note: in some places it seems that there has been mistranscription
> of
> the Latin - or else the original contained grammatical mistakes in Latin
> (it's unlikely that the mason who made the tablet understood Latin, after
> all). Eg.near the beginning it should read "et Annae uxoris suae" - and
> of
> Anne, his wife, (this is a very common phrase in old PRs). There are
> several
> more instances of an o where an a would make more sense, and a few other
> places where I have guessed at the Latin of the original, because the
> Latin
> as quoted would be incorrect.
>
> Some common abbreviations are used. eg "in Com", for in Comitate (in the
> County....) and Ar - for Armiger, or armigeris = a person entitled to bear
> arms. This could be translated in various ways, eg, gentleman, Esquire -
> ie. a person of high social standing.
>
> Hope this helps.
>
> Ruth
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Hilary or Owen Williams <williams.o.h(a)ic24.net>
> To: powys(a)rootsweb.com
> Sent: Fri, 25 Jun 2010 10:36
> Subject: [POWYS] Breconshire: Latin Inscription from Talgarth Church
>
>
> Hi Listers,
>
> I wonder whether anyone would be kind enough to translate this Latin
> emorial Tablet which was inside Talgarth Church for me please.
>
> "Juxta deposita Reliquia Edwardi Wynter de Tredustan in hac parochia Gen
> et
> nnoc uxoris suoe. Hic filius Gulieline Wynter de Llanfihangel talyllyn Ar.
> n hoc Com et Eleonoroe Ux. suoe filioe Walteri James de Tre-ivor in Com.
> onmouth, Ar. illa filia Thomoe Williams de hac Villa Ar et Annoe Ux suoe
> ilise Thome Delahay de Urishay in Com. Hereford, Ar Hic vita decessit 25
> an., 1737, anno 79, Illa vita decessit 11 die Martii anno 74, aetatis
> uoe."
>
> Many thanks,
>
> Hilary Williams
>
> ==================
> isit the Powys Mailing List webpage at:
www.jlb2005.plus.com/powyslist.htm
>
> ------------------------------
> o unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to
> POWYS-request(a)rootsweb.com
> ith the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body
> of
>
> he message
>
>
>
> Please note: in some places it seems that there has been mistranscription
> of
> the Latin - or else the original contained grammatical mistakes in Latin
> (it's unlikely that the mason who made the tablet understood Latin, after
> all). Eg.near the beginning it should read "et Annae uxoris suae" - and
> of
> Anne, his wife, (this is a very common phrase in old PRs). There are
> several
> more instances of an o where an a would make more sense, and a few other
> places where I have guessed at the Latin of the original, because the
> Latin
> as quoted would be incorrect.
>
> Some common abbreviations are used. eg "in Com", for in Comitate (in the
> County....) and Ar - for Armiger, or armigeris = a person entitled to bear
> arms. This could be translated in various ways, eg, gentleman, Esquire -
> ie. a person of high social standing.
>
> Hope this helps.
>
> Ruth
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Hilary or Owen Williams <williams.o.h(a)ic24.net>
> To: powys(a)rootsweb.com
> Sent: Fri, 25 Jun 2010 10:36
> Subject: [POWYS] Breconshire: Latin Inscription from Talgarth Church
>
>
> Hi Listers,
>
> I wonder whether anyone would be kind enough to translate this Latin
> emorial Tablet which was inside Talgarth Church for me please.
>
> "Juxta deposita Reliquia Edwardi Wynter de Tredustan in hac parochia Gen
> et
> nnoc uxoris suoe. Hic filius Gulieline Wynter de Llanfihangel talyllyn Ar.
> n hoc Com et Eleonoroe Ux. suoe filioe Walteri James de Tre-ivor in Com.
> onmouth, Ar. illa filia Thomoe Williams de hac Villa Ar et Annoe Ux suoe
> ilise Thome Delahay de Urishay in Com. Hereford, Ar Hic vita decessit 25
> an., 1737, anno 79, Illa vita decessit 11 die Martii anno 74, aetatis
> uoe."
>
> Many thanks,
>
> Hilary Williams
>
> ==================
> isit the Powys Mailing List webpage at:
www.jlb2005.plus.com/powyslist.htm
>
> ------------------------------
> o unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to
> POWYS-request(a)rootsweb.com
> ith the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body
> of
>
> he message
>
>
>
>
> ===================
> Visit the Powys Mailing List webpage at:
>
www.jlb2005.plus.com/powyslist.htm
>
> -------------------------------
> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to
> POWYS-request(a)rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes
> in
> the subject and the body of the message
>
>
> ===================
> Visit the Powys Mailing List webpage at:
>
www.jlb2005.plus.com/powyslist.htm
>
> -------------------------------
> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to
> POWYS-request(a)rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes
> in the subject and the body of the message
------------------------------
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End of POWYS Digest, Vol 5, Issue 189
*************************************