I have the same problem with my tree with Herefordshire/Radnorshire/Breconshire,
I gess thats what makes it a challenge.....Di
________________________________
From: "glyndwr49(a)tiscali.co.uk" <glyndwr49(a)tiscali.co.uk
To: powys(a)rootsweb.com
Sent: Thursday, 23 June, 2011 8:54:50
Subject: Re: [POWYS] Crow Family
David
I too, like many others I guess, get somewhat frustrated with the
border between Wales and England. I have two problem areas
Montgomeryshire/Shropshire and Monmouthshire/Gloucestershire. If things
had stayed consistent it would not have been so bad, but they have
changed over the years and so when searching, one needs to cover two
possibilities. IGG searching I find particularly aggravating. Many
sites allow for simultaneous multiple county searching but as you say
looking for census records can be a problem. In the 1841 census the
'Birth in county' field can be misleading in these circumstances.
I guess the changes are down to politicians whims and the satisfying of
the aspirations of English & Welsh interests. It would be good to know
the history of these changes and what was in and out of any county at
any particular time. If one lived in this border region would one think
of oneself as Welsh, English or just British?
Farms in Offa's Dyke are always popping up in my searches too.
Regards
Glyn
----Original Message----
From: davidstick(a)btinternet.com
Date: 22/06/2011 14:11
To: <powys(a)rootsweb.com>
Subj: Re: [POWYS] Crow Family
Just a comment on public records and Churchstoke in particular. I have
family farming just outside the village and on Offa's Dyke and hence
have been examining the local records for some years.
This is fraught with difficulty because of the boundaries that cut
through this area. A look at a good map shows what I mean. There is the
most extraordinary 'bump' in the boundary that results in some of
Churchstoke parish being in Montgomeryshire and some in Shropshire.
This causes particular difficulty in Census records. I wonder has
anyone managed to find a definitive cause for the 'bump'?
It is always necessary to examine the adjacent parishes in both
England and Wales. Even then I have had extraordinary difficulty,
particularly with the 1911 census!
Kind regards
Davis Stick
On 22 Jun 2011, at 08:19, Peter J Richardson wrote:
> Hello Glyn,
>
> Thanks for the reply which I will review further over the next
few
days (as
> pressure in the office permits).
>
> It will be a little while I am afraid before I get to Shropshire
again, but
> your response reminded me of something that I did not mention
before
but may
> be of interest. When I was at Shropshire I tried to look at the
Churchstoke
> burials after 1813 and the Hyssington records in general.
Shropshire
have
> not filmed these, and whilst they hold the originals they were
not
available
> for me because they have been sent away for
"digitizing" and are
thus
> unavailable until August. This was bad news on the day, but may
be
good news
> in the longer term if the digitized images are put somewhere
where
we can
> access.
>
> Regards
> Peter
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: <glyndwr49(a)tiscali.co.uk
>> To: <powys(a)rootsweb.com
> Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2011 11:54 PM
> Subject: [POWYS] Crow Family
>
>
>> Hello Peter
>
>
>> Thanks again for your comments and sorry for delay in
responding.
>> Your original enquiry for the Gwilts has turned into one for
my
Crow
>> family. You do seem to have a lot of good data for the area
and
have
>> provided me with quite a few useful bits of data on them and
that
is
>> much appreciated. I wonder if it is no trouble if you have
any
other
>> data readily at hand for any of these Crows noted below. I am
>> particularly interested in Peter Crow b 1766 Castlewright,
Eleanor
Crow
>> b 1807 Kerry and Peter Crow her son born Kerry? 1827.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>> I did not have the marriage of Elizabeth Crow to Joseph Jones
of
Eilth
>> and so that is very useful for me. I have an 1861 census
record
that
>> has Elizabeth Crow(nee Edwards) aged 69, and now a widow,
living
with
>> this couple and their children in Upper Drewen, Castlewright.
I
had
>> thought that she was just a lodger but this now links these
in
very
>> nicely to each other.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>> My Crow line is ironically a line of the Peters. It goes
William
my
>> grandfather then Peter GGF, Peter 2GGF for certain and then
must
>> probably John 3GGF and finally Peter 4GGF. this last Peter is
one
that
>> I mentioned before. Peter Crow is quite a rare combination of
family
>> and given names and so it has proven comparatively easy to
track
them
>> down, even though there have been some problems due to the
reported
>> birth place.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>> Peter Crow married Hannah Middleton in 1788 in Hopesay. They
are
found
>> in the census records for 1841 and 1851 both living into
their
80's. In
>> these census records they are living at Bishopsmoat, which as
far
as I
>> can see is just one or perhaps two farmsteads. There cannot
be
more
>> than a dozen people associated with the location and so the
two
deaths
>> that you found for a Jane Crow and a William Crow are also of
>> particular interest. See end of EMAIL.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>> I have found the following children attributed to them,
covering
an
>> incredible 29 year birth period. If I use her reported age in
the
1851
>> census then she was 21 at the christening of her first child
and
>> therefore aged 50 at the time of the last. Though it is
possible
that
>> she gave birth at 50, it would seem very unlikely. All my
researches
>> have shown that there are quite a few instances of mothers
giving
birth
>> up to 46 years of age, but I have not found any mothers
giving
birth
>> later than this. In the 1841 census we find this Susan with
her
husband
>> and indeed Peter & hannah. She is 22. So there is a
little bit of
a
>> question here. There is also a Richard Crow aged 12 staying
with
the
>> family whom I have not traced. All the children of Peter
& Hannah
were
>> christened in Mainstone with exception of the first Thomas
who was
>> christened in Hopesay.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>> Thomas Crow c 17/2/1789 m Elizabeth Edwards the line that
leads to
the
>> Gwilts
>
>
>> Elizabeth Crow c 28/8/1791 m Richard Pugh I think
>
>
>> William Crow c 8/12/1793. I have not found a marriage for
him so
>> possibly he is the one whose buriel record you found.
>
>
>> Henry Crow c 12/6/1796. He married an Eleanor Groves from
Munslow
and
>> did have a Peter Crow in Kerry in 1830 but he died.
>
>
>> John Crow c 12/7/1801 who also married an Eleanor but an
Eleanor
Crow
>> whom I have not traced at all. They also had a Peter Crow but
where
was
>> he born? All the later census records I have for him say he
was
born in
>> Kerry bar one that says he was born in Berriew around 1827.
>
>
>> Annie Crow c 8/3/1804 possibly m a William Thomas or did she
die
see
>> your list reproduced below.
>
>
>> Richard Crow c 9/6/1805 m Susan Teague
>
>
>> Mary Crow c 16/8/1807 m Samuel Marston
>
>
>> Thomas Crow c 29/7/1810
>
>
>> Ann Crow c 23/11/1812 m William Jones
>
>
>> Susan Crow c 1/11/1818 m John Price
>
>
>
>
>
>
>> The fact that there are two Thomas Crows in the brood would
suggest
>> that the first one died before the birth of the second. Yet I
have
>> linked the first into the husband of Elizabeth Edwards and
have
not
>> been able to trace the second one at all. It is therefore
possible
that
>> this Thomas originates from another family group.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>> I understand your point about social classes and am not sure
how
to
>> factor that into the data above. I do have a lot more data
about
these
>> families and everything seems to link together.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>> Thanks again
>
>
>
>
>
>
>> Best Regards
>
>
>
>
>
>
>> One other item at Shrewsbury Archives is a CD of burials
produced
by
>
>
>> Shropshire Family History Society. I abstracted out the Crow
entries
>> from
>
>
>> Mainstone St John in case they were relevant to you:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>> 26 June 1804 Anne. I wonder if this is the Ann from my list
above.
I
>> have not found any census records that match her and William
Thomas
so
>> this tends to suggest it is her and hence also accounts for
the
other
>> Ann in the list.
>
>
>> 24 September 1800 Elizabeth. At present I do not think this
Elizabeth
>> is part of our family
>
>
>> 26 August 1825 Jane of Bishops Moat. I believe this is a
child of
>> Thomas & Elizabeth Edwards.She would have been only 1 or
2 years
old.
>
>
>> 2 April 1836 Mary of Hyssington Carndel. I do not think this
Mary
is
>> part of our family.
>
>
>> 12 Oct 1810 William. Have not been able to trace William from
above
>> list so this could be him or your next entry which is at
Bishopsmoat.
>
>
>> 18 Apr 1819 William of Bishops Moat
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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