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Photos of: Holy Trinity Church, Felinfoel, Llanelli, CMN
Dear Listers,
The latest subject to be added to my 'Welsh Churches and Chapels
collection' is:
Holy Trinity parish church at Felinfoel, on the northern edge of Llanelli in
the county of Carmarthenshire.
(Photography by John Ball).
Go to www.jlb2011.co.uk/walespic/churches/ and scroll down the index to the
Felinfoel link.
Kind regards,
John
--------------------
John Ball, Brecon, Mid-Wales, UK
E-mail: john(a)jlb2011.co.uk
Website: http://www.jlb2011.co.uk/
Images of Wales: http://www.jlb2011.co.uk/walespic/
Welsh Family History Archive: http://www.jlb2011.co.uk/wales/
GENUKI Breconshire Maintainer: http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/BRE/
Administrator - Powys (& BRE/MGY/RAD) RootsWeb mailing lists
Webmaster - Breconshire Local & Family History Society:
www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~wlsblfhs/
Dear Listers,
I refer to my previous messages of last week (appended below).
Huw Edwards has sent an extremely helpful and swift response to my query. A
summary of the salient points from his reply follow:
--------
The registers to which Huw Edwards was referring were Anglican parish
registers, not civil birth registers. He says this should have been
explicitly stated, although he assumed that most readers would know that
civil registration was mandatory (from 1837) regardless of any religious
affiliation. The point he was making was that Anglican parish registration
was for many years considered the only 'valid' option by the state, and that
Nonconformist records (and those whose names appeared in them) were regarded
as inferior.
It wasn't until Nonconformist chapels and congregations surrendered their
registers to the Registrar General that they could be 'validated' (by the
Non-Parochial Registers Commissioners) as legal proof of birth and descent.
--------
I must express my thanks to Anna Brueton for encouraging me to contact Huw
Edwards himself for clarification.
Kind regards,
John
--------------------
John Ball, Brecon, Mid-Wales, UK
E-mail: john(a)jlb2011.co.uk
Website: http://www.jlb2011.co.uk/
Images of Wales: http://www.jlb2011.co.uk/walespic/
Welsh Family History Archive: http://www.jlb2011.co.uk/wales/
GENUKI Breconshire Maintainer: http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/BRE/
Administrator - Powys (& BRE/MGY/RAD) RootsWeb mailing lists
Webmaster - Breconshire Local & Family History Society
http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~wlsblfhs/
-----Original Message-----
From: John Ball
Sent: Friday, September 16, 2011 10:39 AM
To: Powys List
Subject: Re: [POWYS] [Powys] Birth registration and baptism
Dear Listers,
I'd like to thank everyone who responded to my message (copied below) on the
statement about birth registration and baptism in Huw Edwards's book.
I've noted your comments, and plan to follow a suggestion from Anna Brueton
(on the Dyfed List) that I contact the author himself for clarification.
If and when I get a response, I'll post it on the Powys List.
Kind regards,
John
--------------------
John Ball, Brecon, Mid-Wales, UK
E-mail: john(a)jlb2011.co.uk
Website: http://www.jlb2011.co.uk/
Images of Wales: http://www.jlb2011.co.uk/walespic/
Welsh Family History Archive: http://www.jlb2011.co.uk/wales/
GENUKI Breconshire Maintainer: http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/BRE/
Administrator - Powys (& BRE/MGY/RAD) RootsWeb mailing lists
Webmaster - Breconshire Local & Family History Society
http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~wlsblfhs/
-----Original Message-----
From: John Ball
Sent: Tuesday, September 13, 2011 7:43 PM
To: Powys List
Subject: [Powys] Birth registration and baptism
Dear Listers,
I've been reading Huw Edwards's recent book "Capeli Llanelli - Our Rich
Heritage", published in 2009 by Carmarthenshire County Council Libraries and
Heritage Section; ISBN 978-0-906821-77-0.
At the bottom of page 4, the author states, "Nonconformist ministers,
leading their working class congregations, had also been fighting for their
own freedoms. BIRTHS COULD ONLY BE REGISTERED IF A CHILD HAD BEEN BAPTISED
BY AN ANGLICAN CLERGYMAN. If not, the baby was a non-person."
[The capitals are mine]
Mr Edwards does not cite a source for his statement. I understand him to
mean that Anglican baptism was an essential qualification for the civil
registration of a birth, which seems very hard to believe.
I wonder if any of you have heard of this practice before? If so, where, in
what source? Thus far, I've been unable to find any other references to the
practice.
Is it an 'old wives' tale' or did it really happen - in Llanelli or
elsewhere in Wales?
I'd be interested to hear your views.
Kind regards,
John
--------------------
John Ball, Brecon, Mid-Wales, UK
E-mail: john(a)jlb2011.co.uk
Website: http://www.jlb2011.co.uk/
Images of Wales: http://www.jlb2011.co.uk/walespic/
Welsh Family History Archive: http://www.jlb2011.co.uk/wales/
GENUKI Breconshire Maintainer: http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/BRE/
Administrator - Powys (& BRE/MGY/RAD) RootsWeb mailing lists
Webmaster - Breconshire Local & Family History Society
http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~wlsblfhs/
Dear Ellie,
Round Oak was the name of a semi-detached house at the Revel, Berriew. I
hope that helps. My mother's family had the small holding there in the early
1900's and my grandfather operated the mill in Berriew itself.
I hope that helps.
Regards
Alun Evans
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ellie Thomas" <ellie.thomas(a)ntlworld.com>
To: <powys(a)rootsweb.com>
Sent: Wednesday, September 21, 2011 1:04 PM
Subject: [POWYS] Round Oak, Berriew
> Hi Listers,
> I wonder if anyone knows where Round Oak was in Berriew please? Thomas
> James
> HAMMOND(s) died there 1930-ish, but I can't find where this was. I thought
> it might be a house with an oak tree in the garden, but when I've been in
> Berriew I haven't seen anything like that and asking some of the residents
> about it also drew a blank.
>
> Regards,
> Ellie Thomas
>
> ===================
> Visit the Powys Mailing List webpage at: www.jlb2011.co.uk/powyslist.htm
>
> -------------------------------
> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to
> POWYS-request(a)rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes
> in the subject and the body of the message
Ellie.
Have you tried Googling it. I have jst put in Round Oak Berriew and came up with several hits. There's even an estate agent who has gone number 1 up for sale.
Good luck.
Ann.
From: Ellie Thomas <ellie.thomas(a)ntlworld.com>
To: powys(a)rootsweb.com
Sent: Wednesday, 21 September 2011, 13:04
Subject: [POWYS] Round Oak, Berriew
Hi Listers,
I wonder if anyone knows where Round Oak was in Berriew please? Thomas James
HAMMOND(s) died there 1930-ish, but I can't find where this was. I thought
it might be a house with an oak tree in the garden, but when I've been in
Berriew I haven't seen anything like that and asking some of the residents
about it also drew a blank.
Regards,
Ellie Thomas
===================
Visit the Powys Mailing List webpage at: www.jlb2011.co.uk/powyslist.htm
-------------------------------
To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to POWYS-request(a)rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message
Hi Listers,
I wonder if anyone knows where Round Oak was in Berriew please? Thomas James
HAMMOND(s) died there 1930-ish, but I can't find where this was. I thought
it might be a house with an oak tree in the garden, but when I've been in
Berriew I haven't seen anything like that and asking some of the residents
about it also drew a blank.
Regards,
Ellie Thomas
Hello,
I have been given information about a Griffith Edwards baptized at St Marys
church Dolgellau 12/07/1828
Father was Ellis Edwards his mother Catharine ?
Could anyone see if Griffith had any siblings, and hopefully point me to
whether this marriage could be of his parents.
Hayes Marriage index has a marriage of Ellis Edwards to Cathrine Ellis in
1828 in Dolgallau. It only has the year and I would like more info on the
marriage.
I know there are not many details entered that early, but any clues will be
much appreciated.
Thanks
Annette
Dear Listers,
I'd like to thank everyone who responded to my message (copied below) on the
statement about birth registration and baptism in Huw Edwards's book.
I've noted your comments, and plan to follow a suggestion from Anna Brueton
(on the Dyfed List) that I contact the author himself for clarification.
If and when I get a response, I'll post it on the Powys List.
Kind regards,
John
--------------------
John Ball, Brecon, Mid-Wales, UK
E-mail: john(a)jlb2011.co.uk
Website: http://www.jlb2011.co.uk/
Images of Wales: http://www.jlb2011.co.uk/walespic/
Welsh Family History Archive: http://www.jlb2011.co.uk/wales/
GENUKI Breconshire Maintainer: http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/BRE/
Administrator - Powys (& BRE/MGY/RAD) RootsWeb mailing lists
Webmaster - Breconshire Local & Family History Society
http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~wlsblfhs/
-----Original Message-----
From: John Ball
Sent: Tuesday, September 13, 2011 7:43 PM
To: Powys List
Subject: [Powys] Birth registration and baptism
Dear Listers,
I've been reading Huw Edwards's recent book "Capeli Llanelli - Our Rich
Heritage", published in 2009 by Carmarthenshire County Council Libraries and
Heritage Section; ISBN 978-0-906821-77-0.
At the bottom of page 4, the author states, "Nonconformist ministers,
leading their working class congregations, had also been fighting for their
own freedoms. BIRTHS COULD ONLY BE REGISTERED IF A CHILD HAD BEEN BAPTISED
BY AN ANGLICAN CLERGYMAN. If not, the baby was a non-person."
[The capitals are mine]
Mr Edwards does not cite a source for his statement. I understand him to
mean that Anglican baptism was an essential qualification for the civil
registration of a birth, which seems very hard to believe.
I wonder if any of you have heard of this practice before? If so, where, in
what source? Thus far, I've been unable to find any other references to the
practice.
Is it an 'old wives' tale' or did it really happen - in Llanelli or
elsewhere in Wales?
I'd be interested to hear your views.
Kind regards,
John
--------------------
John Ball, Brecon, Mid-Wales, UK
E-mail: john(a)jlb2011.co.uk
Website: http://www.jlb2011.co.uk/
Images of Wales: http://www.jlb2011.co.uk/walespic/
Welsh Family History Archive: http://www.jlb2011.co.uk/wales/
GENUKI Breconshire Maintainer: http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/BRE/
Administrator - Powys (& BRE/MGY/RAD) RootsWeb mailing lists
Webmaster - Breconshire Local & Family History Society
http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~wlsblfhs/
Message below forwarded to the Powys List on behalf of Norma Whitaker, whose
address <norma.whitaker12(a)gmail.com> is not currently subscribed to the
List. Please send any responses directly to Norma as well as to the List
John Ball
Administrator, Powys List
===============
-----Original Message-----
From: Norma Whitaker <norma.whitaker12(a)gmail.com>
Sent: Wednesday, September 14, 2011 10:03 PM
To: powys(a)rootsweb.com
Subject: Birth registration and baptism
Hello John,
I have sort of a penpal who is a retired Church of England clergyman, and
also very interested in geneology. I will ask him if he has any insights
about this.
Will be curious to read other responses to the list!
Norma across the pond in Colorado, USA
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Ball" <john(a)jlb2011.co.uk>
To: "Dyfed List" <dyfed(a)rootsweb.com>
Sent: Tuesday, September 13, 2011 7:43 PM
Subject: [Dyfed] Birth registration and baptism
> I've been reading Huw Edwards's recent book "Capeli Llanelli - Our Rich
> Heritage", published in 2009 by Carmarthenshire County Council Libraries and
> Heritage Section; ISBN 978-0-906821-77-0.
>
> At the bottom of page 4, the author states, "Nonconformist ministers,
> leading their working class congregations, had also been fighting for their
> own freedoms. BIRTHS COULD ONLY BE REGISTERED IF A CHILD HAD BEEN BAPTISED
> BY AN ANGLICAN CLERGYMAN. If not, the baby was a non-person."
> [The capitals are mine]
>
> Mr Edwards does not cite a source for his statement. I understand him to
> mean that Anglican baptism was an essential qualification for the civil
> registration of a birth, which seems very hard to believe.
Sounds to me like he's confusing or conflating two different ideas. Any suggestion that Anglican baptism as an essential qualification for birth registration after 1837 is surely wrong. But if he means that prior to 1837 an entry in an Anglican baptism register was the only form of record of an infant's arrival which was fully recognised for ALL legal reference purposes, then possibly so. However such an idea was (as he suggests) not popular amongst earlier nonconformist ministers, who believed that their own registers ought to have equal legal recognition.
This lay behind the idea of gathering many older nonconformist registers into the General Register Office in 1837 (plus a further batch in 1857) where they could be inspected and a decision made as to their likely authenticity http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/records/research-guides/nonconformists.... (These registers are now in the National Archives, although their details are also generally available online.) It also lay behind the idea of the creation of a Protestant Dissenters' Registry of Births (covering 1716-1837), located at Dr Williams' Library in London.
It's maybe worth noting that there has never been any legal obligation for nonconformist churches to keep registers - it's more a matter for their own discretion. (Apart, that is, from those chapels which applied after 1897 for the right to conduct full legal marriages without the presence of the Superintendent Registrar being necessary, or for those Jewish and Quaker congregations which were able to conduct full legally-recognised marriages even before 1837.) That scope for discretion also partly explains why so many nonconformist chapels have maintained registers only on a rather intermittent and informal basis, especially in the later 19th century.
AJ
Dear Listers,
I've been reading Huw Edwards's recent book "Capeli Llanelli - Our Rich
Heritage", published in 2009 by Carmarthenshire County Council Libraries and
Heritage Section; ISBN 978-0-906821-77-0.
At the bottom of page 4, the author states, "Nonconformist ministers,
leading their working class congregations, had also been fighting for their
own freedoms. BIRTHS COULD ONLY BE REGISTERED IF A CHILD HAD BEEN BAPTISED
BY AN ANGLICAN CLERGYMAN. If not, the baby was a non-person."
[The capitals are mine]
Mr Edwards does not give a source for this statement. I understand him to
mean that Anglican baptism was an essential qualification for the civil
registration of a birth, which seems very hard to believe.
I wonder if any of you have heard of this practice before? If so, where, in
what source? Thus far, I've been unable to find any other references to the
practice.
Is it an 'old wives' tale' or did it really happen - in Llanelli or
elsewhere in Wales?
I'd be interested to hear your views.
Kind regards,
John
--------------------
John Ball, Brecon, Mid-Wales, UK
E-mail: john(a)jlb2011.co.uk
Website: http://www.jlb2011.co.uk/
Images of Wales: http://www.jlb2011.co.uk/walespic/
Welsh Family History Archive: http://www.jlb2011.co.uk/wales/
GENUKI Breconshire Maintainer: http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/BRE/
Administrator - Powys (& BRE/MGY/RAD) RootsWeb mailing lists
Webmaster - Breconshire Local & Family History Society
http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~wlsblfhs/
I visited Kington today and found No 3 Harp Yard was still there. This was the
home of my Gt Grandmother and her family back in 1881...........Di
________________________________
From: Mike Cox <micox(a)stollard.plus.com>
To: powys(a)rootsweb.com
Sent: Wednesday, 7 September, 2011 13:16:53
Subject: Re: [POWYS] Llyn Cottages, Disserth, Radnorshire
Hello Patricia.
I had a similar problem (cottages disappeared over time) a couple of years back
and I asked the Clwyd-Powys Archeological Trust if they could help. I received
detailed information by return, including OS map references. They were
absolutely wonderful. Try them.
Heddwch
Mike.
Mike Llywelyn Cox
micox(a)stollard.plus.com
http://www.ppeyes.org.ukhttp://micoxpplog.blogspot.com
A NSUN (http://www.nsun.org.uk) member.
A http://www.solnetwork.org.uk member.
Family History www.wotashower.co.uk
All views and statements expressed here are entirely my own and, unless stated
otherwise, not those of any other individual or organisation.
On 6 Sep 2011, at 22:26, Patricia Heseltine wrote:
> Hi everyone,
>
> I have been away from the list for sometime following other family lines but
> have now resubscribed as I want to get a better idea of the surroundings my
> Price and James families lived in. I have been looking at old maps and
> cannot find the cottages described as Llyn in the various census, but
> looking at modern maps I note that there is a place called Cors Y Llyn, a
> nature reserve. I know that the cottages were destroyed some time ago but
> can anyone tell me if they were situated near the area of the nature reserve
> please? I am hoping to visit the area in the next few weeks and would like
> to be able to identify where the cottages were.
>
> Many thanks
> Tricia Heseltine
> ===================
> Visit the Powys Mailing List webpage at: www.jlb2011.co.uk/powyslist.htm
>
> -------------------------------
> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to
>POWYS-request(a)rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the
>subject and the body of the message
===================
Visit the Powys Mailing List webpage at: www.jlb2011.co.uk/powyslist.htm
-------------------------------
To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to POWYS-request(a)rootsweb.com
with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of
the message
Ann, Anna, Lynne, John, Aidan
Thank you all for your kind wishes and words of encouragement, I have nine hours before I am on my way to Heathrow London tonight.
Best Wishes
Joyce in Melbourne, Australia
Hi Listers,
Many thanks for the replies to my posting. I had looked at the old maps
site but was still unable to pin down exactly where these cottages had been
situated. From the Census forms it would seem that they must have been near
Smithfield as they were enumerated as nearby. I think Richard Meredith who
used to be on this list knew where they were as it was he that told me they
had been destroyed. Not sure if Richard is still on the list?
I am hoping to visit the area in the next few weeks and it would have been
good to have been able to visit the site.
Kind Regards
Tricia Hdeseltine
Sorry everyone - I forget to rename the subject line in my last posting.
Here it is again with the correct title.
Hi Alison
Thanks for your info and the link. Your information has sent me off looking
at bmds and wills and I am in danger of going off on irrelevant trails, so I
will just note here what information I already have.
I have the Thomas Ashton baptised 1797 in my tree and had noticed that many
internet trees had got in a muddle about him. In the baptism of Thomas
Ashton 1793, his father John is noted as a pauper, which does not fit well
with the Geseilfa family. John Ashton of Geseilfa named a son Thomas in his
PCC will [I think this came from your transcription - for which thanks], and
I assume this is the one baptised 1797. I notice that you don't have him in
your tree.
However that may be, if the 1793 Thomas Ashton's wife Jane Owen had a church
baptism in Trefeglwys, then the following two families seem to be the only
candidates. I don't have anything more on either of these families.
Trefeglwys 11 May 1785 Richard Owen otp m. Jane x Lewis otp, Banns,
Witnesses John Ashton and Edward Thomas
Children of Richard Owen and Jane, all baptised Trefeglwys
richard 13 Mar 1786 richard owen jane penrhin
evan 16 Sep 1787 richard owen jane
ann 9 Nov 1789 richard owen penrhin
jane 24 May 1792 richard owen jane
mary 1 Sep 1794 richard owen jane
martha 17 Nov 1796 richard owen penypenrhin
sarah 3 Nov 1798 richard owen penypenrhin
Trefeglwys 9 Oct 1792 David x Owen otp m. Margaret x Jones otp, Banns,
Witnesses Thomas Jones and Maurice Davies
Children of David Owen and Margaret, all baptised Trefeglwys
william 25 Dec 1792 david owen margaret
jane 6 Jul 1794 david owen margaret
owen 2 Oct 1796 david owen margaret
martha 23 Mar 1799 david owen margaret
ann 31 Jul 1802 david owen margaret
margaret 10 Feb 1805 david owen margaret
catherine 7 Feb 1807 david owen margaret
-----Original Message-----
Message: 5
Date: Wed, 7 Sep 2011 20:10:25 +0100
From: Alison Bryan <alison.bryan(a)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [POWYS] MGY Thomas Owen of Trefglwys, sheep stealer
To: powys(a)rootsweb.com
Message-ID:
<CALL2ezw_TfbNkJcy8ObCL5SW7pPcCXvW7arMxC4vhXYFOoQUCw(a)mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Hi Nicola
I can't give you any details about this case, but it is something I
will certainly look out for. I have OWEN of Trefeglwys in my family
tree.
My ggg grandparents:
Jane OWEN b. ~1794 m. Thomas ASHTON b ~1793 (c. 23 Nov 1793). Married
18 November 1818.
(This Thomas ASHTON I think researchers get mixed up with (one from
1797), and this is where I start to get annoyed with wrong trees on
Ancestry.
I've not taken Jane's line any further back. The Thomas OWEN you
list, has him down as born around 1794 (depending if he already had
his birthday), so roughly the same age as my ggg grandmother.
Potential siblings or cousins, there's not many OWEN families in the
parish.
My ggg grandparents, after marriage you can glean a bit via census
documents. Here's Jane:
http://www.alisonbryan.com/tree/getperson.php?personID=I326&tree=All
(I will leave that link open just for the next day - too many bots
crawling over the website).
Thanks for flagging this up, it is useful to know. I really need to
get back to research.
Alison
Hi Alison
Thanks for your info and the link. Your information has sent me off looking
at bmds and wills and I am in danger of going off on irrelevant trails, so I
will just note here what information I already have.
I have the Thomas Ashton baptised 1797 in my tree and had noticed that many
internet trees had got in a muddle about him. In the baptism of Thomas
Ashton 1793, his father John is noted as a pauper, which does not fit well
with the Geseilfa family. John Ashton of Geseilfa named a son Thomas in his
PCC will [I think this came from your transcription - for which thanks], and
I assume this is the one baptised 1797. I notice that you don't have him in
your tree.
However that may be, if the 1793 Thomas Ashton's wife Jane Owen had a church
baptism in Trefeglwys, then the following two families seem to be the only
candidates. I don't have anything more on either of these families.
Trefeglwys 11 May 1785 Richard Owen otp m. Jane x Lewis otp, Banns,
Witnesses John Ashton and Edward Thomas
Children of Richard Owen and Jane, all baptised Trefeglwys
richard 13 Mar 1786 richard owen jane penrhin
evan 16 Sep 1787 richard owen jane
ann 9 Nov 1789 richard owen penrhin
jane 24 May 1792 richard owen jane
mary 1 Sep 1794 richard owen jane
martha 17 Nov 1796 richard owen penypenrhin
sarah 3 Nov 1798 richard owen penypenrhin
Trefeglwys 9 Oct 1792 David x Owen otp m. Margaret x Jones otp, Banns,
Witnesses Thomas Jones and Maurice Davies
Children of David Owen and Margaret, all baptised Trefeglwys
william 25 Dec 1792 david owen margaret
jane 6 Jul 1794 david owen margaret
owen 2 Oct 1796 david owen margaret
martha 23 Mar 1799 david owen margaret
ann 31 Jul 1802 david owen margaret
margaret 10 Feb 1805 david owen margaret
catherine 7 Feb 1807 david owen margaret
-----Original Message-----
Message: 5
Date: Wed, 7 Sep 2011 20:10:25 +0100
From: Alison Bryan <alison.bryan(a)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [POWYS] MGY Thomas Owen of Trefglwys, sheep stealer
To: powys(a)rootsweb.com
Message-ID:
<CALL2ezw_TfbNkJcy8ObCL5SW7pPcCXvW7arMxC4vhXYFOoQUCw(a)mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Hi Nicola
I can't give you any details about this case, but it is something I
will certainly look out for. I have OWEN of Trefeglwys in my family
tree.
My ggg grandparents:
Jane OWEN b. ~1794 m. Thomas ASHTON b ~1793 (c. 23 Nov 1793). Married
18 November 1818.
(This Thomas ASHTON I think researchers get mixed up with (one from
1797), and this is where I start to get annoyed with wrong trees on
Ancestry.
I've not taken Jane's line any further back. The Thomas OWEN you
list, has him down as born around 1794 (depending if he already had
his birthday), so roughly the same age as my ggg grandmother.
Potential siblings or cousins, there's not many OWEN families in the
parish.
My ggg grandparents, after marriage you can glean a bit via census
documents. Here's Jane:
http://www.alisonbryan.com/tree/getperson.php?personID=I326&tree=All
(I will leave that link open just for the next day - too many bots
crawling over the website).
Thanks for flagging this up, it is useful to know. I really need to
get back to research.
Alison
Hi Nicola
I can't give you any details about this case, but it is something I
will certainly look out for. I have OWEN of Trefeglwys in my family
tree.
My ggg grandparents:
Jane OWEN b. ~1794 m. Thomas ASHTON b ~1793 (c. 23 Nov 1793). Married
18 November 1818.
(This Thomas ASHTON I think researchers get mixed up with (one from
1797), and this is where I start to get annoyed with wrong trees on
Ancestry.
I've not taken Jane's line any further back. The Thomas OWEN you
list, has him down as born around 1794 (depending if he already had
his birthday), so roughly the same age as my ggg grandmother.
Potential siblings or cousins, there's not many OWEN families in the
parish.
My ggg grandparents, after marriage you can glean a bit via census
documents. Here's Jane:
http://www.alisonbryan.com/tree/getperson.php?personID=I326&tree=All
(I will leave that link open just for the next day - too many bots
crawling over the website).
Thanks for flagging this up, it is useful to know. I really need to
get back to research.
Alison
On 7 September 2011 19:37, Nicola Bennett-Jones <nicolabj(a)waitrose.com> wrote:
> Hello Listers
>
> There is a sad tale in 1837 of a 43 year old Thomas Owen, a well-to-do
> farmer who was convicted of sheep stealing in Trefeglwys at the
> Montgomeryshire Quarter Sessions on 19 October 1837 and sentenced to 15
> years transportation. He had offered his aggrieved victim Richard Evans to
> emigrate with his family, but the latter insisted on prosecution. I have
> utterly failed to find out what happened to Thomas Owen. He does not seem to
> have been transported to Australia, and I am wondering if he obtained a
> pardon or reduced sentence. I am trying to establish where he was living
> when he was convicted and what happened to him.
>
>
>
> I suspect that he may be of a family of Owens who were farming Braichyfedw,
> Trefeglwys in 1840-1842. They had earlier been associated with Cwmbiga and
> Llwynygog, both Trefeglwys. Other farms held or occupied by members of the
> family were Careg y byg, Drwsynant and Nantycittie alias Ty Newydd, all
> Trefglwys. There are slight discrepancies in the dates and I am battling
> with omissions from (and/or errors in) the parish register. A Thomas Owen
> baptised either 1793 or 1797 son of Thomas Owen and Dorothy Ashton was
> living in 1840, but is to be found nowhere in the UK censuses.
>
>
>
> The only other candidate for the sheep stealer seems to be a Thomas Owen of
> Berthlas, Trefglwys about whom I know nothing except that he is not in
> Berthlas in 1841.
>
>
>
> Have any listers been doing research on an Owen family in any of these farms
> and, if so, could you shed any light on the case?
>
> Thanks
>
> Nicola BJ
>
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Hello Listers
There is a sad tale in 1837 of a 43 year old Thomas Owen, a well-to-do
farmer who was convicted of sheep stealing in Trefeglwys at the
Montgomeryshire Quarter Sessions on 19 October 1837 and sentenced to 15
years transportation. He had offered his aggrieved victim Richard Evans to
emigrate with his family, but the latter insisted on prosecution. I have
utterly failed to find out what happened to Thomas Owen. He does not seem to
have been transported to Australia, and I am wondering if he obtained a
pardon or reduced sentence. I am trying to establish where he was living
when he was convicted and what happened to him.
I suspect that he may be of a family of Owens who were farming Braichyfedw,
Trefeglwys in 1840-1842. They had earlier been associated with Cwmbiga and
Llwynygog, both Trefeglwys. Other farms held or occupied by members of the
family were Careg y byg, Drwsynant and Nantycittie alias Ty Newydd, all
Trefglwys. There are slight discrepancies in the dates and I am battling
with omissions from (and/or errors in) the parish register. A Thomas Owen
baptised either 1793 or 1797 son of Thomas Owen and Dorothy Ashton was
living in 1840, but is to be found nowhere in the UK censuses.
The only other candidate for the sheep stealer seems to be a Thomas Owen of
Berthlas, Trefglwys about whom I know nothing except that he is not in
Berthlas in 1841.
Have any listers been doing research on an Owen family in any of these farms
and, if so, could you shed any light on the case?
Thanks
Nicola BJ
I have been told that relations used to keep the Crown Hotel in Hay and that
their names were possibly Oswald, Frances and John. Can anyone give me any
more details please?
Many thanks.
Alison
Malvern, UK