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Maureen
Are you sure that William married a Margaret? There is a baptism for a Walter William (the IGI indexes patronymically up until around 1812) to Wm Bevan and Mary November 13th 1767 at Llanbedr.
There is a marriage for a Willliam Bevan to Mary Williams December 22nd 1752 at Llanfihangel Cmdu (this is not an extracted record but one submitted so you would need to check the actual marriage records).
There are a couple of baptisms of children to a William Bevan and Margaret at LLanfihangel Cmdu - John William bap December 26th 1776 and William William bap April 7th 1799 ( the gap between these might suggest a different set of parents with the same names)
There are also more baptisms at Llanfihangel Cmdu for children born to a William and Mary Bevan - (Elizabeth 28.1.1792; Mary 23.11.1790; Anne 2.2.1795; Catherine 27.11.1793) could Margaret and Mary be the same person?
The date range is quite wide so maybe a few queries here but hope this might help
Sue in Newark
________________________________
From: Maureen Brown <brownmaureen54(a)googlemail.com>
To: POWYS(a)rootsweb.com
Sent: Saturday, 15 October 2011, 14:42
Subject: [POWYS] William Bevan
I'm trying to find any information about my 4 x gtgrandfather, William Bevan
of Llanbedr, Breconshire. I believe he married Margaret Williams in 1752.
They had a son, Walter Bevan who was born abt 1768.
I would like to try and find out William's parentage, his date of birth and
his occuption, if possible.
Thank you
Maureen
===================
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I'm trying to find any information about my 4 x gtgrandfather, William Bevan
of Llanbedr, Breconshire. I believe he married Margaret Williams in 1752.
They had a son, Walter Bevan who was born abt 1768.
I would like to try and find out William's parentage, his date of birth and
his occuption, if possible.
Thank you
Maureen
Hello all.
I was intrigued by this man with the Spanish sounding name so I googled Daffyd Manuel poet and came up with a few interesting websites. Have a go and see if any of them are of any help to you.
Best wishes.
Ann.
________________________________
From: Nicola Bennett-Jones <nicolabj(a)waitrose.com>
To: powys(a)rootsweb.com
Sent: Thursday, 13 October 2011, 12:47
Subject: [POWYS] MGY Trefeglwys. Dafydd Manuel, Poet
Hello Eric
I am sure that I have seen a reference to Dafydd Manuel the poet living at
some stage in Eblid, Trefeglwys (which place sometimes appears as Eblid,
Llanidloes). However, I cannot now find these references after doing some
quick searches. Unfortunately OCR packages often make an error in scanning
"Eblid" returning such words as "Child" instead. That there was a
Manuel/Emmanuel connection with Eblid is backed up by some references in the
Shropshire Archives, Venables Collection, for example:
484/332 24 January 1686/7
... 3. John Emanuell of Eblid gent ...
Eblid is now drowned under the Glyn Clywedog reservoir.
There is more on Dafydd Manuel at
http://family-tree.co.uk/familyblogs/bessie/files/2008/10/emanuel-for-blog.j
pg
which looks like a well-researched family tree
and
http://www.ebooksread.com/authors-eng/richard-williams/montgomeryshire-worth
ies-lli/page-24-montgomeryshire-worthies-lli.shtml
which shows much more detail than the Dictionary of Welsh Biography.
Nicola BJ
-----Original Message-----
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2011 15:46:04 +0100
From: "Eric Jervis" <jervis420(a)btinternet.com>
Subject: [POWYS] MGY Trefeglwys. Dafydd Manuel, Poet
To: <powys(a)rootsweb.com>
Message-ID: <6282102287714B3785AF47B9AA214AB8@ericPC>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Dafydd was born about 1625 and died in Trefeglwys about 1726. It appears he
was a man of some education, and he wrote on more than one occasion to
an Edward Llwyd, who was an Oxford librarian, at a time when few of his
contemporaries could write their name. Where did he obtain his education?
He seems to have 'appeared' in the Llawrglyn area of Trefeglwys parish
and eked out a living on a small farm there. I have a feeling he may
have come from Cardiganshire, but this is intestinal rather than cerebral,
and there is nothing in historical references to date to give any clues
to his origin. Does anyone have any anecdotal information about Dafydd,
and are there any online copies of his poems that might reveal something?
Grateful for any snippets!!
Eric, Llanidloes
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2011 20:38:17 +0100
From: "Rhian Williams" <rhian.williams3(a)tinyworld.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [POWYS] MGY Trefeglwys. Dafydd Manuel, Poet
To: <powys(a)rootsweb.com>
Message-ID: <7ABA72DB95A7432FBE25DBC287092790@Rhiangliniadur>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
reply-type=original
Are you aware of the entry for him in the Dictionary of Welsh Biography
(link to the online version below)? - the bibliography may give you further
clues. There is a NLW project ongoing to put C19th and some C20th Welsh
journals online so you may be lucky. I've not had time to search myself.
http://yba.llgc.org.uk/en/s-MANU-DAF-1624.html
Rhian
-----Original Message-----
From: Eric Jervis
Sent: Wednesday, October 12, 2011 3:46 PM
To: powys(a)rootsweb.com
Subject: [POWYS] MGY Trefeglwys. Dafydd Manuel, Poet
Dafydd was born about 1625 and died in Trefeglwys about 1726. It appears he
was a man of some education, and he wrote on more than one occasion to
an Edward Llwyd, who was an Oxford librarian, at a time when few of his
contemporaries could write their name. Where did he obtain his education?
He seems to have 'appeared' in the Llawrglyn area of Trefeglwys parish
and eked out a living on a small farm there. I have a feeling he may
have come from Cardiganshire, but this is intestinal rather than cerebral,
and there is nothing in historical references to date to give any clues
to his origin. Does anyone have any anecdotal information about Dafydd,
and are there any online copies of his poems that might reveal something?
Grateful for any snippets!!
Eric, Llanidloes
===================
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-------------------------------
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------------------------------
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POWYS-admin(a)rootsweb.com.
To post a message to the POWYS mailing list, send an email to
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__________________________________________________________
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POWYS-request(a)rootsweb.com
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email with no additional text.
End of POWYS Digest, Vol 6, Issue 239
*************************************
===================
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-------------------------------
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If anyone is researching the Family History of EITHER......
John Edwards,who is shown on the 1861 census as a Butcher,the 1871 census as
a cattle dealer and who apparently ran the Lam Inn at Penderyn.
OR... Joan James(Parents were James James and Catherine James) James married
Catherine,In the 1851 census they are shown as living in Bute Street
Abedare, and James is a general goods haulier.But in the 1861 census
Catherine James is a widow living with a Son, John.
So far I am unable to find a marriage record between James and Catherine.
I appreciate that this is outside the Powys area, but if anyone has any
information they can supply, I would be very grateful.
Regards,
Graham.
G. PROSSER.
56. BABBAGES.
BICKINGTON.
BARNSTAPLE.
NDEVON.
EX312LW.
Hello Eric
I am sure that I have seen a reference to Dafydd Manuel the poet living at
some stage in Eblid, Trefeglwys (which place sometimes appears as Eblid,
Llanidloes). However, I cannot now find these references after doing some
quick searches. Unfortunately OCR packages often make an error in scanning
"Eblid" returning such words as "Child" instead. That there was a
Manuel/Emmanuel connection with Eblid is backed up by some references in the
Shropshire Archives, Venables Collection, for example:
484/332 24 January 1686/7
... 3. John Emanuell of Eblid gent ...
Eblid is now drowned under the Glyn Clywedog reservoir.
There is more on Dafydd Manuel at
http://family-tree.co.uk/familyblogs/bessie/files/2008/10/emanuel-for-blog.j
pg
which looks like a well-researched family tree
and
http://www.ebooksread.com/authors-eng/richard-williams/montgomeryshire-worth
ies-lli/page-24-montgomeryshire-worthies-lli.shtml
which shows much more detail than the Dictionary of Welsh Biography.
Nicola BJ
-----Original Message-----
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2011 15:46:04 +0100
From: "Eric Jervis" <jervis420(a)btinternet.com>
Subject: [POWYS] MGY Trefeglwys. Dafydd Manuel, Poet
To: <powys(a)rootsweb.com>
Message-ID: <6282102287714B3785AF47B9AA214AB8@ericPC>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Dafydd was born about 1625 and died in Trefeglwys about 1726. It appears he
was a man of some education, and he wrote on more than one occasion to
an Edward Llwyd, who was an Oxford librarian, at a time when few of his
contemporaries could write their name. Where did he obtain his education?
He seems to have 'appeared' in the Llawrglyn area of Trefeglwys parish
and eked out a living on a small farm there. I have a feeling he may
have come from Cardiganshire, but this is intestinal rather than cerebral,
and there is nothing in historical references to date to give any clues
to his origin. Does anyone have any anecdotal information about Dafydd,
and are there any online copies of his poems that might reveal something?
Grateful for any snippets!!
Eric, Llanidloes
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2011 20:38:17 +0100
From: "Rhian Williams" <rhian.williams3(a)tinyworld.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [POWYS] MGY Trefeglwys. Dafydd Manuel, Poet
To: <powys(a)rootsweb.com>
Message-ID: <7ABA72DB95A7432FBE25DBC287092790@Rhiangliniadur>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
reply-type=original
Are you aware of the entry for him in the Dictionary of Welsh Biography
(link to the online version below)? - the bibliography may give you further
clues. There is a NLW project ongoing to put C19th and some C20th Welsh
journals online so you may be lucky. I've not had time to search myself.
http://yba.llgc.org.uk/en/s-MANU-DAF-1624.html
Rhian
-----Original Message-----
From: Eric Jervis
Sent: Wednesday, October 12, 2011 3:46 PM
To: powys(a)rootsweb.com
Subject: [POWYS] MGY Trefeglwys. Dafydd Manuel, Poet
Dafydd was born about 1625 and died in Trefeglwys about 1726. It appears he
was a man of some education, and he wrote on more than one occasion to
an Edward Llwyd, who was an Oxford librarian, at a time when few of his
contemporaries could write their name. Where did he obtain his education?
He seems to have 'appeared' in the Llawrglyn area of Trefeglwys parish
and eked out a living on a small farm there. I have a feeling he may
have come from Cardiganshire, but this is intestinal rather than cerebral,
and there is nothing in historical references to date to give any clues
to his origin. Does anyone have any anecdotal information about Dafydd,
and are there any online copies of his poems that might reveal something?
Grateful for any snippets!!
Eric, Llanidloes
===================
Visit the Powys Mailing List webpage at: www.jlb2011.co.uk/powyslist.htm
-------------------------------
To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to
POWYS-request(a)rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in
the subject and the body of the message
------------------------------
To contact the POWYS list administrator, send an email to
POWYS-admin(a)rootsweb.com.
To post a message to the POWYS mailing list, send an email to
POWYS(a)rootsweb.com.
__________________________________________________________
To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to
POWYS-request(a)rootsweb.com
with the word "unsubscribe" without the quotes in the subject and the body
of the
email with no additional text.
End of POWYS Digest, Vol 6, Issue 239
*************************************
Are you aware of the entry for him in the Dictionary of Welsh Biography
(link to the online version below)? - the bibliography may give you further
clues. There is a NLW project ongoing to put C19th and some C20th Welsh
journals online so you may be lucky. I've not had time to search myself.
http://yba.llgc.org.uk/en/s-MANU-DAF-1624.html
Rhian
-----Original Message-----
From: Eric Jervis
Sent: Wednesday, October 12, 2011 3:46 PM
To: powys(a)rootsweb.com
Subject: [POWYS] MGY Trefeglwys. Dafydd Manuel, Poet
Dafydd was born about 1625 and died in Trefeglwys about 1726. It appears he
was a man of some education, and he wrote on more than one occasion to
an Edward Llwyd, who was an Oxford librarian, at a time when few of his
contemporaries could write their name. Where did he obtain his education?
He seems to have 'appeared' in the Llawrglyn area of Trefeglwys parish
and eked out a living on a small farm there. I have a feeling he may
have come from Cardiganshire, but this is intestinal rather than cerebral,
and there is nothing in historical references to date to give any clues
to his origin. Does anyone have any anecdotal information about Dafydd,
and are there any online copies of his poems that might reveal something?
Grateful for any snippets!!
Eric, Llanidloes
===================
Visit the Powys Mailing List webpage at: www.jlb2011.co.uk/powyslist.htm
-------------------------------
To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to
POWYS-request(a)rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in
the subject and the body of the message
Dafydd was born about 1625 and died in Trefeglwys about 1726. It appears he
was a man of some education, and he wrote on more than one occasion to
an Edward Llwyd, who was an Oxford librarian, at a time when few of his
contemporaries could write their name. Where did he obtain his education?
He seems to have 'appeared' in the Llawrglyn area of Trefeglwys parish
and eked out a living on a small farm there. I have a feeling he may
have come from Cardiganshire, but this is intestinal rather than cerebral,
and there is nothing in historical references to date to give any clues
to his origin. Does anyone have any anecdotal information about Dafydd,
and are there any online copies of his poems that might reveal something?
Grateful for any snippets!!
Eric, Llanidloes
A friend gave me a letter this morning which she found inside a second-hand book she bought.
The letter was wiritten in 1990 by a Mrs Evans in New South Wales addressed to Mr A. Breese of the Powys FHS seeking help with a family [details given] in Llanfechan, Builth Wells.
Since 21 years have elapsed I was tempted to bin the letter but am seeking advice from persons on this list. I cannot help personally as my area of knowledge is restricted to Montgomeryshire. Anyhow we cannot be sure that Mrs Evans is still around !!!
I will gladly forward the letter should someone be interested.
Bryn Ellis
______________________________________________
This email has been scanned by Netintelligence
http://www.netintelligence.com/email
Hi Listers
Details of Monumental Inscriptions for St. Mary's, New Radnor are now
available on CD in PDF Format and can be purchased for £4.00 from the
undermentioned.
Powys FHS
Publication Postal Sales
3 Cagebrook Avenue
Hunderton
Hereford
HR2 7AS
or
via: _www.parishchest.com_ (http://www.parishchest.com)
or _www.genfair.co.uk_ (http://www.genfair.co.uk)
Regards
Pam
Hi Nicola
A very quick e mail from me - I'm bogged down with some other writing
this week (I would much rather be doing this). Thanks as ever for
your replies.
> A David Tilsley and sister Frances are in Church House Inn in 1851 both
> unmarried. These two appear to be the children of David Tilsley, draper,
> town, Llanidloes and wife Mary. David does not seem from baptisms records or
> censuses to have a sister Ann, so who Ann Tilsley above is I don't know.
> They are in Belle Vue in 1861, with David now married to Mary. I think that
> Belle Vue and Church House Inn are the same establishment from looking at
> the order of dwellings in the 1851 and 1861 census. In both cases it is
> placed between Church Farm and the Red Lion Inn, with the other surrounding
> dwellings being reasonably consistent.
Belle Vue - if you look towards the Red Lion from the church, it is in
one of the b/w houses to the left of the Red Lion. My WILLIAMS
ancestors ended up running the place early-mid 1890s. There is a
picture of the Belle Vue on the wall in the current Red Lion, I took
it off the wall to show a cousin once - and on the back of the photo
frame it shows who the photo has been donated by. Basically someone I
knew years ago (their mother lived a few doors down). Last time I was
in contact (in the 1990s) they were living near Brecon.
Before my WILLIAMS family ended up there, it was occupied by an EVANS
(a relation of the person who donated the print above). Now this
EVANS is a relation of Rev. James MORGAN vicar of Trefeglwys. I don't
know if Margaret Holmes still subscribes to this list, but she knows
more about this family. It links in with ISSARD too. They used to
own Church Farm, you can see mention of this on the website - also
through his wife and maybe children's wills. Incidentally Trefeglwys
Vicarage up until this point was near Bodaioch Hall.
So going back to the point re the Inn, I had wondered re Church Inn >
Belle Vue and the name change coinciding with that family either dying
or moving away from the parish (off the top of my head, they moved to
Cardiganshire).
Sorry some of this is very vague, but I really shouldn't be writing
this e mail - I'm up against a deadline.
Alison
Hello All
Correction: first I must correct a careless mistake I made in an earlier
posting. A long time ago I had conflated two Tilsleys, and though I had
separated them again, I had left some of the wrong details in the record for
Edward Tilsley who married Ursula Lloyd. He was not a reverend and he
probably died in 1733, not 1748. The Tilsley who died 1748 was John
Tilsley, vicar of Llandinam, one of a line of Tilsleys vicars there:
John Tilsley appointed 1723, died 1748
William Tilsley appointed 1748, died 1773
John Tilsley appointed 1784, died 1830
Snip from Shirley
"... the Rev. William Tilsley who was Vicar of Llandinam and Rector of
Penstrowed in the eighteenth century. Apparently, in 1780 in Llandinam, his
only daughter Mary married William Jones, a Cardiganshire landowner. Their
son William Tilsley Jones (1782-1861), of Gwynfryn, Llangynfelyn, CDG,
became High Sheriff and Deputy Lord Lieutenant of Cardiganshire."
Thanks for this Shirley. I had seen William Tilsley Jones and had wondered
how he fitted in. I see that in Mary Tilsley's marriage settlement with
William Jones, one of the parties is "William Tilsley of Newgate Street, a
citizen of London, linen draper", not her father, who had died in 1773, but
possibly a brother.
Snip from Alison
" Re the records of the Montgomeryshire and Shropshire Lunatic Asylum ...
It seems the archives are held at Shrewsbury ... Unfortunately ... No
Records for 1870 - 1883 ..."
Edward Tilsley b. 1834 may well have been in the Lunatic Asylum before 1870.
He lived with his great aunt Margaret Lloyd in Rhyd y Carw until 1862 when
she died. According to another researcher, she left property for him in her
will. I have not seen her will, but the probate record shows that she names
two other relatives as executors, suggesting the possibility that Edward was
deemed not capable of taking on this role. Edward was presumably not in the
lunatic asylum when he married in 1866, but he was by 1871.
Snip from Alison
"Nicola - James MORGAN's will - see lines 40-44:
http://www.trefeglwys.org.uk/probate/ecclesiastical-courts-1635-1858-wills/w
ill-rev-james-morgan-vicar-of-trefeglwys-of-church-farm-1854/
"Also all those two messuages or Dwelling houses called the Church Inn
situate in the Village of Trefeglwys and now in the occupation of
David Tilsley and Ann Tilsley".
I don't currently have the brain space to work out who these peope are
- my grey matter is Secretary Hand fried. As for Church Inn - first
time I've ever come across it. Red Lion or the Belle Vue Inn are the
only two places I knew of."
A David Tilsley and sister Frances are in Church House Inn in 1851 both
unmarried. These two appear to be the children of David Tilsley, draper,
town, Llanidloes and wife Mary. David does not seem from baptisms records or
censuses to have a sister Ann, so who Ann Tilsley above is I don't know.
They are in Belle Vue in 1861, with David now married to Mary. I think that
Belle Vue and Church House Inn are the same establishment from looking at
the order of dwellings in the 1851 and 1861 census. In both cases it is
placed between Church Farm and the Red Lion Inn, with the other surrounding
dwellings being reasonably consistent.
Nicola
Hi all
I'm still reading this discussion, and I appreciate all e mails. I'm
just not on top of replies.
I've not come across Church Inn before - Belle Vue and Red Lion only.
Jonathan - as Nicola said, disability carried a stigma back then, in
some ways we're still dealing with the tail end of that attitude now.
The other thing, medicine / therapies weren't so advanced then as it
is now - something like depression wasn't so easily treatable.
Re the records of the Montgomeryshier and Shropshire Lunatic Asylum -
I was looking at this last weekend (when Nicola first e mailed me
about this). It seems the archives are held at Shrewsbury:
http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/hospitalrecords/details.asp?id=2742&ho...
Unfortunately it says, "No Records for 1870 - 1883, 1891 - 1905" which
is annoying. He may have been a long term patient there though. I
have to go to Shrewsbury in the next couple of weeks - so I'll try and
go to the Archives whilst I'm there. No promises, I have a lot on
currently.
Whilst kind of on the subject, William and Catherine are listed as
both deaf. Do you know anything about this - I am very interested in
deaf history, hence the question.
Nicola - James MORGAN's will - see lines 40-44:
http://www.trefeglwys.org.uk/probate/ecclesiastical-courts-1635-1858-will...
"Also all those two messuages or Dwelling houses called the Church Inn
situate in the Village of Trefeglwys and now in the occupation of
David Tilsley and Ann Tilsley".
I don't currently have the brain space to work out who these peope are
- my grey matter is Secretary Hand fried. As for Church Inn - first
time I've ever come across it. Red Lion or the Belle Vue Inn are the
only two places I knew of.
Alison
Hi Jonathan
In 1871 Edward b. 1834 is found in the Shropshire & Montgomeryshire Lunatic
Asylum under the name of Edward Tinsley, aged 37, farm labourer born
Trefeglwys.
There is then this death:
Deaths Jun 1877 TINSLEY Edward 43 Atcham 6a 486
which fits with this record at Gleiniant Old Cemetery:
Edward Tilsley, late of Dolgenau, d. 10 Apr 1877, age 43
The Lunatic Asylum was in Atcham district. If Edward died as a lunatic away
from home, it is hardly surprising that this is not recorded on his
gravestone. His family would have identified him with the family home, then
Dolgenau. Equally his wife Margaret does not seem to have lived at Dolgenau
(she is found in censuses at Cwmgwernog), but is identified with Dolgenau on
the basis of the family home of her late husband.
I don't think it is surprising that Edward would have fallen out of family
memory. Another much more recent family member in quite another branch of my
family was "an imbecile". She was hidden from view and barely featured in
family memories.
Best wishes
Nicola BJ
------------------
Original message
Hi Alison and Nicola,
I don't know who these people are but it is possible that
they could be the grandparents of my 1776 William (they
would both have been about 50 at the time of his birth).
However, that is mere speculation and I won't make any
claims based on that.
The mention of the church reminded me that I have a photo of
a stone in St Michael's graveyard to the memory of Margaret,
wife of Edward Tilsley, who died 7 June and what looks like
1898, aged 64. This would make her born around 1834. The
interesting thing is that she is described as the wife of
Edward Tilsley, Dolgenau, Trefeglwys. Dolegnau was where my
family lived from c 1866 to the 1940s. There was an Edward
but he wasn't born until the early 1870s. It is possible
that my family took over the house in the late 1860s after
this Edward, no doubt a relative of some sort. Nicola
mentioned that the Edward she thinks is my ggg grandfather
had a son called Edward born in 1834, which would fit in
with the dates of the tombstone. However, it is odd that my
grandfather made no mention of his grandfather having a
older surving brother, though it would help to explain the
link to Dolgenau. Another of the mysteries that every
family has.
Jonathan
Wellington, NZ
I don't know whether it is relevant or helpful but Nicola's reference to the various clerical Tilsley families from Montgomeryshire prompts me to mention the Rev. William Tilsley who was Vicar of Llandinam and Rector of Penstrowed in the eighteenth century. Apparently, in 1780 in Llandinam, his only daughter Mary married William Jones, a Cardiganshire landowner. Their son William Tilsley Jones (1782-1861), of Gwynfryn, Llangynfelyn, CDG, became High Sheriff and Deputy Lord Lieutenant of Cardiganshire. William Tilsley Jones's son, William Basil Jones (1822-1897) held a series of important ecclesiastical offices, becoming Bishop of St David's from 1874 to 1897. See, for instance, the relevant entry from Burke's Peerage, which is extracted on the Plwyf Llangynfelyn website, at http://www.llangynfelyn.org/dogfennau/william_basil_burkes.html
All the best,Shirley.
________________________________________
From: powys-bounces(a)rootsweb.com [powys-bounces(a)rootsweb.com] on behalf of Alison Bryan [alison.bryan(a)gmail.com]
Sent: 07 October 2011 09:52
To: powys(a)rootsweb.com
Subject: Re: [POWYS] William Tilsley
Hi Nicola and Jonathan
> As for William Tilsley born about 1776, I think it very likely that he is
> the son of Edward Tilsley who was baptised 8 Nov 1827 in Trefeglwys (son of
> Rev Edward Tilsley and Ursula Lloyd) and who seems to have died in 1811
> (despite the mysterious entry of "Edward Tilsley Davies" in the parish
> register burial record - but not on his grave). The reason I think that this
> link is likely is that (1) I have found no other boys as children of Rev
> Edward Tilsley (-1748) and Ursula Lloyd (1695-1729), (2) The Edward Tilsley
> who died in 1811 was of Birchen House and (3) William Tilsley born about
> 1776 was living in Birchen House by 1814.
I just transcribed this will:
http://www.trefeglwys.org.uk/probate/ecclesiastical-courts-1635-1858-will...
note the witness at line 63. It doesn't throw any light on anything,
apart from the occurrence of the name.
Best wishes, Alison
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Hi Alison and Nicola,
I don't know who these people are but it is possible that
they could be the grandparents of my 1776 William (they
would both have been about 50 at the time of his birth).
However, that is mere speculation and I won't make any
claims based on that.
The mention of the church reminded me that I have a photo of
a stone in St Michael's graveyard to the memory of Margaret,
wife of Edward Tilsley, who died 7 June and what looks like
1898, aged 64. This would make her born around 1834. The
interesting thing is that she is described as the wife of
Edward Tilsley, Dolgenau, Trefeglwys. Dolegnau was where my
family lived from c 1866 to the 1940s. There was an Edward
but he wasn't born until the early 1870s. It is possible
that my family took over the house in the late 1860s after
this Edward, no doubt a relative of some sort. Nicola
mentioned that the Edward she thinks is my ggg grandfather
had a son called Edward born in 1834, which would fit in
with the dates of the tombstone. However, it is odd that my
grandfather made no mention of his grandfather having a
older surving brother, though it would help to explain the
link to Dolgenau. Another of the mysteries that every
family has.
Jonathan
Wellington, NZ
----- Original Message Follows -----
> Hi Nicola
>
> This is an inscription inside the church (to the left of
> the altar):
>
> Underneath
> are interred
> Martha
> wife of Edward Tilsley
> of Birchenhouse in this parish
> who died March 2nd 1809
> aged 83 years
> also the above named
> Edward Tilsley
> who died September 20th 1811
> aged 85 years
>
> Alison
>
>
> On 5 October 2011 21:37, Nicola Bennett-Jones
> > <nicolabj(a)waitrose.com> wrote: Does anyone have access
> > to monumental inscriptions at Trefeglwys. I am still
> worrying away at the Tilsley family who occupied Birchen
> > House, Trefeglwys. I found the following note in my
> > files, but unfortunately have no idea where I got it
> from: >
> >
> >
> > "MI: Martha wife of Edward Tilsley of Birchenhouse
> > Trefeglwys died 2 March 1809 aged 83 and the above named
> Edward Tilsley died 20 Sept 1811 aged 83." >
> >
> >
> > However the corresponding parish register entries read:
> >
> > "Martha wife of Edward Tilsley buried 8 Mar 1809"
> >
> > And " Edward Tilsley Davies buried 26 Sep 1811".
> >
> >
> >
> > In addition to the confusion over the surname, I cannot
> > make sense of the ages given on the MI I have.
> >
> >
> >
> > I want to find out the actual wording on the relevant
> gravestone. >
> >
> >
> > ===================
> > Visit the Powys Mailing List webpage at:
> www.jlb2011.co.uk/powyslist.htm >
> > -------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to
> POWYS-request(a)rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe'
> without the quotes in the subject and the body of the
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>
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> without the quotes in the subject and the body of the
> message
Hi Nicola,
>From what you say it sounds then as though Edward is my ggg
grandfather and not William. It is possible that with all
the William's in the lineage my grandfather assumed that his
g grandfather was also William. My grandfather was told
that his g grandfather and his wife dies in London and that
the children then returned to Trefeglwys. This certainly
fits in with Edward not William. There is no mention in the
family of Edward (b 1834)or Elizabeth (1841) so I assume
they died very young, Elizabeth around the time of her
mother, possibly during or shortly after birth. This is a
minor detour in my ancestry and as you say this doesn't
solve the problem of where the 1776 William came from.
Do you know anything about Elizabeth Evans (e.g. date of
birth)? It would be interesting to find out more about her.
My main interest in finding out more about the 1776 William
was because my mother (a long retired professional
historian) was keen to see if there was a link to the
Ralph/Randle Tilsley who died c 1600 and I think might have
introduced the name to the county. Fortunately while it may
be hard to establish that link, the 1836 William married
Catherine Ashton who can be traced back to Ralph, so mother
is partly satisfied.
Many thanks for you efforts.
Regards
Jonathan
----- Original Message Follows -----
> Hi Jonathan
> I had reached a different tentative conclusion to you
> about the parents of William Tilsley born about 1836 and
> would be interested in some more information to help
> decide what is the case.
>
> It seems to me likely that William Tilsley born abt 1836
> is the son of Edward Tilsley (1808 Trefeglwys-1847 London)
> and Elizabeth Evans (d. 1841 in London). Edward
> (1808-1847) is the son of William Tilsley born abt 1776
> and Anne Lloyd born 1784. I make the other children of
> Edward and Elizabeth: Edward born 1834 in Trefeglwys, Jane
> born 1839 London and Elizabeth born 1841 London.
>
> The difference is that you make William Tilsley born about
> 1836 the son of Edward's brother William Tilsley (baptised
> 1812 Trefeglwys). I think I have traced this William in
> 1851 (duplicate entry), 1861 and 1871. (It looks as though
> he was estranged from his wife.) If I am right his
> children include Fanny, William, Charles and Martha
> (1843-1844).
>
> I have looked for your William with children William, Jane
> and George in the 1841 census, but have failed to find
> them. Could you send more details so that I can track them
> down?
>
> Whichever, if either, of us is right about the parentage
> of William born about 1836, it does not help with the
> origins of the William Tilsley born about 1776. As the
> genealogist you employed said, he may have been born
> outside Montgomeryshire. However, I feel it more likely
> that his baptism went unrecorded in parish registers. If
> so, it will only be possible to track him down through
> other records such as wills or land records. Best wishes
> Nicola BJ
>
> -----Original Message-----
>
> Date: Mon, 03 Oct 2011 10:36:23 +1300
> From: Hughesez <hughesez(a)clear.net.nz>
> Subject: [POWYS] William Tilsley
> To: powys(a)rootsweb.com
> Message-ID: <4e88d957.8b.45ca.4352(a)clear.net.nz>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
>
> Hi Nicola and Alison,
>
> In relation to the William Tilsley born in 1836, and
> Gwilym, I can fill in a few gaps, though I am also facing
> the same brick wall. This William is my great great
> grandfather and third in a line of (at least) five
> Williams.
>
> What records I have show him to be the son of a William
> born in 1810 to Ann Lloyd and the first William. While
> Ann???s links to the area are well established,
> William???s pedigree is not clear. I think he is listed
> somewhere as being from the area but I have not been able
> to find a link to the Tilsleys in locality. In the 1970s
> my mother employed the services of a genealogist, who
> speculated that William might have not been from the
> county.
>
> My grandfather, the last William (and like his first
> cousin Gwilym also a Methodist minister; I believe that at
> one stage they lived not too many miles apart near Bangor,
> William preaching in English and Gwilym in Welsh) left a
> record in the late 70s of his life as a minister and also
> of his family background. It seems the 1810 William and
> his wife moved to London in the 1830s where William, Jane
> and George were born. All five are in the 1841 London
> census. A few years after both parents (and I assume
> George) died and William and Jane returned to Trefeglwys,
> Jane to live with her grandmother and William with his
> uncle (Richard Humphrey) at the Red Lion inn (1851 census)
> ; I am not sure of the exact family connection.
>
> William married Catherine Ashton around 1865 and shortly
> after the birth of their first son (William, my great
> grandfather) moved to Dolgenau, approx. two-thirds of the
> way from Trefeglwys to Llawryglyn. The family stayed
> remained at the property until the late 1940s, when the
> last (unmarried) son, Jonathan died. The house is now
> holiday accommodation. Although one of Jonathan???s nieces
> was alive just a few years ago, his brothers and their
> sons left the area. That branch of the Tilsley family
> lives on in Cardiff, Bangor and London.
>
> I have the 1836 William in the 1851, 1871, 1881 and 1901
> censuses.
>
> I could add more but fear that the proliferation of
> Williams will only lead to confusion. If anyone can help
> with the original (b c 1776) William, I and my 90 year old
> mother would be dleighted to hear from you.
>
> Jonathan Hughes
> Wellington, New Zealand
>
>
>
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> message
Hi Jonathan
I have just found out that Evan Evans of Ffinnant, Trefeglwys, was the
father of Elizabeth Evans who married Edward Tilsley in 1832. Evan Evans
made a will in 1845 in which he refers to his son in law Edward Tilsley and
Evan's deceased daughter Elizabeth, Edward's wife. He leaves money for the
education of their daughter Elizabeth and also a bequest to their other
unnamed children. The will was proved in 26 Aug 1848. I do not know who Evan
Evan's parents were yet, but his sister Margaret married Edward Bennett
(1755-1822). The genealogist Richard Bennett stated that she was Margaret
Evans of Bontnewydd. She died in 1843, leaving a will, on which I have made
the following notes, which may provide further leads:
Bequests to
nephew Evan Evans
Jane Evans dau of aforesaid Evan Evans
Sarah Bennett, wife of Richard Bennett of Derwllwydion
nephew Thomas Evans of Ffinnant
Mary Evans wife of aforesaid Thomas Evans
brother Evan Evans of Ffinnant (residuary legatee and executor)
Edward and Elizabeth's youngest daughter Elizabeth did survive. She is found
in Llanwnog in 1851 "at nurse" aged 10. According to another researcher, she
married Evan Watkin 3 Dec 1859, Llanllugan Parish Church and went on to have
at least one daughter. I have not tracked her through the censuses.
Their son Edward also survived. He is found in Rhydycarw, Trefeglwys living
with his great aunt (he is described as nephew) in 1851 and 1861. He is in a
lunatic asylum in Shropshire in 1871. He married a Mary Jones from
Cwmgwernog, Trefeglwys, but they are never found together in censuses and
appear to have had no offspring.
As for William Tilsley born about 1776, I think it very likely that he is
the son of Edward Tilsley who was baptised 8 Nov 1827 in Trefeglwys (son of
Rev Edward Tilsley and Ursula Lloyd) and who seems to have died in 1811
(despite the mysterious entry of "Edward Tilsley Davies" in the parish
register burial record - but not on his grave). The reason I think that this
link is likely is that (1) I have found no other boys as children of Rev
Edward Tilsley (-1748) and Ursula Lloyd (1695-1729), (2) The Edward Tilsley
who died in 1811 was of Birchen House and (3) William Tilsley born about
1776 was living in Birchen House by 1814. However, I have found no baptism
record or will to establish the link. I have not traced back Rev Edward
Tilsley to Radulph Tilsley. There are 4 Montgomeryshire PCC wills which I
have not seen which might help. One problem is that there are quite a number
of clerical Tilsleys in Montgomeryshire and clerical families can move
around so much that they may disappear from the area, particularly in the
early years of their careers.
Best wishes
Nicola
Original Message
Hi Nicola,
>From what you say it sounds then as though Edward is my ggg
grandfather and not William. It is possible that with all
the William's in the lineage my grandfather assumed that his
g grandfather was also William. My grandfather was told
that his g grandfather and his wife dies in London and that
the children then returned to Trefeglwys. This certainly
fits in with Edward not William. There is no mention in the
family of Edward (b 1834)or Elizabeth (1841) so I assume
they died very young, Elizabeth around the time of her
mother, possibly during or shortly after birth. This is a
minor detour in my ancestry and as you say this doesn't
solve the problem of where the 1776 William came from.
Do you know anything about Elizabeth Evans (e.g. date of
birth)? It would be interesting to find out more about her.
My main interest in finding out more about the 1776 William
was because my mother (a long retired professional
historian) was keen to see if there was a link to the
Ralph/Randle Tilsley who died c 1600 and I think might have
introduced the name to the county. Fortunately while it may
be hard to establish that link, the 1836 William married
Catherine Ashton who can be traced back to Ralph, so mother
is partly satisfied.
Many thanks for you efforts.
Regards
Jonathan
-----
Hi Listers
A CD in PDF format is now available covering St. Mary's Monumental
Inscriptions, Newchurch. Priced at £4.00 it can be purchased from the
undermentioned.
Powys FHS
Publication Postal Sales
3 Cagebrook Avenue,
Hunderton
Hereford
HR2 7AS
OR
via:- _www.parishchest.com_ (http://www.parishchest.com)
or
_www.genfair.co.uk_ (http://www.genfair.co.uk)
Regards
Pam
Does anyone have access to monumental inscriptions at Trefeglwys. I am still
worrying away at the Tilsley family who occupied Birchen House, Trefeglwys.
I found the following note in my files, but unfortunately have no idea where
I got it from:
"MI: Martha wife of Edward Tilsley of Birchenhouse Trefeglwys died 2 March
1809 aged 83 and the above named Edward Tilsley died 20 Sept 1811 aged 83."
However the corresponding parish register entries read:
"Martha wife of Edward Tilsley buried 8 Mar 1809"
And " Edward Tilsley Davies buried 26 Sep 1811".
In addition to the confusion over the surname, I cannot make sense of the
ages given on the MI I have.
I want to find out the actual wording on the relevant gravestone.