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Hello List, Regarding "The mistaken belief that Monmouthshire is in England only came to prominence in the 19th century, and continued well into the 20th century.In fact, Monmouthshire has never been part of England." I wish someone would tell the LDS this! They continue to list Monmouthshire under England rather than Wales. Regards,Tomi
Dear Listers,
Further to my previous e-mail, Hilary Williams tells me that volumes 1 and 2
of Thomas Nicholas's "Annals and Antiquities of the Counties and County
Families of Wales" are on:
Internet Archive - http://www.archive.org/details/annalsantiquitie02nichuoft
and Google Books - http://tinyurl.com/2axodg8
Thanks Hilary.
However, despite this, I'll continue with my plan to upload the section
about the status of Monmouthshire onto my website later this week.
Kind regards,
John
--------------------
John Ball, Brecon, Mid-Wales, UK
E-mail: john(a)jlb2005.plus.com
John's Homepage: http://www.jlb2005.plus.com/
Images of Wales: http://www.jlb2005.plus.com/walespic/
Welsh Family History Archive: http://www.jlb2005.plus.com/wales/
GENUKI Breconshire Maintainer: http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/BRE/
Brecknock FH Group Webmaster: http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~wlsbfhs/
Joint Administrator - Powys (& BRE/MGY/RAD) RootsWeb mailing lists
-----Original Message-----
From: powys-bounces(a)rootsweb.com [mailto:powys-bounces@rootsweb.com] On
Behalf Of John Ball
Sent: 12 October 2010 08:37
To: powys(a)rootsweb.com
Subject: [POWYS] English Counties
Jim Fisher <ejf(a)jimella.co.uk> wrote:
Take a look at my web page on just this topic at
http://www.jimella.nildram.co.uk/counties.htm
It is mainly based on my knowledge of England rather than Wales but
(subject to correction by those more knowledgeable of Wales) I don't
think the differences are very great, if there are any.
==================
Dear Jim,
Thank you for telling us about your excellent new webpage on the English
counties.
The only point about which I would quibble is your reference to
Monmouthshire, where you state:
"Monmouthshire. . . , now in Wales, was for several centuries legally a part
of England (but not legitimately in the view of many Welsh people)."
The mistaken belief that Monmouthshire is in England only came to prominence
in the 19th century, and continued well into the 20th century.
In fact, Monmouthshire has never been part of England. Henry VIII, through
the Act of Union of 1536, created the county of Monmouthshire, together with
the counties of Breconshire, Denbighshire, Montgomeryshire, and Radnorshire,
from Welsh lands previously owned by the Marcher Lords. As a result, the
number of Welsh counties increased from eight to thirteen.
The mistaken belief that Monmouthshire was in England arose from the fact
that in 1542, justice and administration for Wales were vested in the
officers of a new court - the King's Great Session in Wales. The Great
Session for Wales was organised into four circuits, each consisting of three
counties, and which would each have two justices. The four circuits were:
1) North Wales - Anglesey, Caernarfon and Merioneth.
2) Chester - Flint, Denbigh and Montgomery.
3) Southwest Wales - Cardiganshire, Carmarthenshire and Pembrokeshire
4) South and Mid Wales - Glamorgan, Breconshire, and Radnorshire.
Monmouthshire was omitted from this scheme. So, by reason of geographic
proximity (nearest part of Wales to London), Monmouthshire came under the
jurisdiction of the Courts of Chancery and Exchequer at Westminster.
Ecclesiastically, though, the county remained in the diocese of Llandaff and
culturally, linguistically and in every other respect continued to be Welsh.
Later, in the reign of Charles II, Monmouthshire was included in the Oxford
circuit, together with Oxford, Gloucester, Worcester and Hereford.
The status of Monmouthshire as a Welsh county is more fully explained on
Glyn Hale's excellent website (http://halefamily.net/gwent.html) from where
I have taken much of the information above.
A more detailed and authoritative account is given in Volume 2 of "Annals
and Antiquities of the Counties and County Families of Wales", by Thomas
Nicholas, published Longmans, Green, Reader, & Co., London , 1872. Nicholas
devotes over four pages of his book to a vehement and well-argued dismissal
of what he describes as "this vulgar error"; i.e. the claim that
Monmouthshire is or was in England. He quotes verbatim the relevant
paragraphs from the Act of Union, which clearly state that,
". . .all the residue of the said Lords Marcher within the saide Countrey or
Dominion of Wales shall be served and divided into certaine particular
Counties or Shires, that is to say: The Countie or Shire of Mommouth, the
Countie or Shire of Brekenoke, the Countie or Shire of Radnor, the Countie
or Shire of Mountgomery, the Countie or Shire of Denbigh."
It is clear that Monmouthshire was treated in precisely the same way as the
other four new Welsh counties.
I am currently converting the full text of Nicholas's explanation, including
the quotes from the Act of Union, into editable text, and hope to upload it
onto my website in the next few days.
Kind regards,
John
--------------------
John Ball, Brecon, Mid-Wales, UK
E-mail: john(a)jlb2005.plus.com
John's Homepage: http://www.jlb2005.plus.com/
Images of Wales: http://www.jlb2005.plus.com/walespic/
Welsh Family History Archive: http://www.jlb2005.plus.com/wales/
GENUKI Breconshire Maintainer: http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/BRE/
Brecknock FH Group Webmaster: http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~wlsbfhs/
Joint Administrator - Powys (& BRE/MGY/RAD) RootsWeb mailing lists
Try this website
http://www.visionofbritain.org.uk
There are various routes through the website and lots of information
about places.
One way to get to the information you are looking for is to put in the
name of the place you are interested in and it will give you a
description.
Then near the bottom of the page below 'XXXX through time'
and click on 'this administrative unit' and it will give alternative
names and spellings and loads of other information about boundary
changes etc.
A wealth of information.
Have fun and don't get lost
Phyllis
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2010 10:30:13 -0500
> From: Mary Harding <mary4nppd(a)gmail.com>
> Subject: [POWYS] Seeking Edmonds, Radnorshire, Beguildy parish
> To: POWYS(a)rootsweb.com
> Message-ID:
> <AANLkTim_U94rHb13OOP=JCwYVXVLa0ovgQPPNdR3jzdh(a)mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> Greetings. I am new to the list and have much to learn, but eager to begin.
>
> I would appreciate any help that can be offered as to understanding the
> system of parishes, townships, provinces, etc. I understand these have been
> redrawn over the years--but I am lost at this time.
>
> Also, I am searching for two families: Edmonds, believe to be of Beguildy,
> and Harding (for which I have not barely a clue). I am enclosing what is
> known or suspected below, and would appreciate any suggestions for further
> research.
>
> I am searching for *Thomas Edmonds*, born circa 1805-09. Son of Thomas and
> Jane Loyd Edmonds.
> Siblings: John and Jane.
>
> Birth Dates cited include: 6 April, 1805 (biography), 7 April, 1808
> (headstone), 1809 (1851 Wales Census, if correct).
>
> Married *Mary Evans*, born 1804-1808, according to his biography published
> in the USA. Her parents unknown.
>
> Children include: Mary (1833), Margaret, (?), Jane (1840), Anne
> (?) Jonathan (1842), Edwin (1845), Elizabeth (1848) and Sarah (1850).
> Mary married *William Harding*, likely after arriving in Wisconsin, USA as
> first child known to that union was born in 1856.
>
> Reputed to have sailed from Liverpool in 1851 and arrived New York.
>
> A family that appears a likely match is documented in the 1851 Wales Census:
> Radnorshire>Creigbyther>District 1a>7. This shows that Thomas was born in
> Beguildy and his wife Mary was born in LLangunlllo. Children all born in
> Beguildy.
>
> Thank you very much in advance for any assistance that can be offered. If I
> can in anyway return a research service here, please do not hesitate. Kind
> regards,
>
> Mary Ann Harding
> Lincoln Nebraska USA
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2010 21:17:07 +0100
> From: "Jim Fisher" <ejf(a)jimella.co.uk>
> Subject: Re: [POWYS] Seeking Edmonds, Radnorshire, Beguildy parish
> To: powys(a)rootsweb.com
> Message-ID: <4CB37ED3.22056.29A4EBA@localhost>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
>
> Take a look at my web page on just this topic at
> http://www.jimella.nildram.co.uk/counties.htm
>
> It is mainly based on my knowledge of England rather than Wales but
> (subject to correction by those more knowledgeable of Wales) I don't
> think the differences are very great, if there are any.
>
> Regards,
>
> Jim Fisher
>
> On 11 Oct 2010 at 10:30, Mary Harding wrote:
>
>> Greetings. I am new to the list and have much to learn, but eager to
>> begin.
>>
>> I would appreciate any help that can be offered as to understanding
>> the system of parishes, townships, provinces, etc. I understand these
>> have been redrawn over the years--but I am lost at this time.
>>
>> Also, I am searching for two families: Edmonds, believe to be of
>> Beguildy, and Harding (for which I have not barely a clue). I am
>> enclosing what is known or suspected below, and would appreciate any
>> suggestions for further research.
>>
>> I am searching for *Thomas Edmonds*, born circa 1805-09. Son of
>> Thomas and Jane Loyd Edmonds. Siblings: John and Jane.
>>
>> Birth Dates cited include: 6 April, 1805 (biography), 7 April, 1808
>> (headstone), 1809 (1851 Wales Census, if correct).
>>
>> Married *Mary Evans*, born 1804-1808, according to his biography
>> published in the USA. Her parents unknown.
>>
>> Children include: Mary (1833), Margaret, (?), Jane (1840), Anne
>> (?) Jonathan (1842), Edwin (1845), Elizabeth (1848) and Sarah (1850).
>> Mary married *William Harding*, likely after arriving in Wisconsin,
>> USA as
>> first child known to that union was born in 1856.
>>
>> Reputed to have sailed from Liverpool in 1851 and arrived New York.
>>
>> A family that appears a likely match is documented in the 1851 Wales
>> Census:
>> Radnorshire>Creigbyther>District 1a>7. This shows that Thomas was
>> born in
>> Beguildy and his wife Mary was born in LLangunlllo. Children all born
>> in Beguildy.
>>
>> Thank you very much in advance for any assistance that can be offered.
>> If I can in anyway return a research service here, please do not
>> hesitate. Kind regards,
>>
>> Mary Ann Harding
>> Lincoln Nebraska USA
>>
>> ===================
>> Visit the Powys Mailing List webpage at:
>> www.jlb2005.plus.com/powyslist.htm
>>
>> -------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to
>> POWYS-request(a)rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the
>> quotes in the subject and the body of the message
>>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> To contact the POWYS list administrator, send an email to
> POWYS-admin(a)rootsweb.com.
>
> To post a message to the POWYS mailing list, send an email to POWYS(a)rootsweb.com.
>
> __________________________________________________________
> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to POWYS-request(a)rootsweb.com
> with the word "unsubscribe" without the quotes in the subject and the body of the
> email with no additional text.
>
>
> End of POWYS Digest, Vol 5, Issue 290
> *************************************
>
Jim Fisher <ejf(a)jimella.co.uk> wrote:
Take a look at my web page on just this topic at
http://www.jimella.nildram.co.uk/counties.htm
It is mainly based on my knowledge of England rather than Wales but
(subject to correction by those more knowledgeable of Wales) I don't
think the differences are very great, if there are any.
==================
Dear Jim,
Thank you for telling us about your excellent new webpage on the English
counties.
The only point about which I would quibble is your reference to
Monmouthshire, where you state:
"Monmouthshire. . . , now in Wales, was for several centuries legally a part
of England (but not legitimately in the view of many Welsh people)."
The mistaken belief that Monmouthshire is in England only came to prominence
in the 19th century, and continued well into the 20th century.
In fact, Monmouthshire has never been part of England. Henry VIII, through
the Act of Union of 1536, created the county of Monmouthshire, together with
the counties of Breconshire, Denbighshire, Montgomeryshire, and Radnorshire,
from Welsh lands previously owned by the Marcher Lords. As a result, the
number of Welsh counties increased from eight to thirteen.
The mistaken belief that Monmouthshire was in England arose from the fact
that in 1542, justice and administration for Wales were vested in the
officers of a new court - the King's Great Session in Wales. The Great
Session for Wales was organised into four circuits, each consisting of three
counties, and which would each have two justices. The four circuits were:
1) North Wales - Anglesey, Caernarfon and Merioneth.
2) Chester - Flint, Denbigh and Montgomery.
3) Southwest Wales - Cardiganshire, Carmarthenshire and Pembrokeshire
4) South and Mid Wales - Glamorgan, Breconshire, and Radnorshire.
Monmouthshire was omitted from this scheme. So, by reason of geographic
proximity (nearest part of Wales to London), Monmouthshire came under the
jurisdiction of the Courts of Chancery and Exchequer at Westminster.
Ecclesiastically, though, the county remained in the diocese of Llandaff and
culturally, linguistically and in every other respect continued to be Welsh.
Later, in the reign of Charles II, Monmouthshire was included in the Oxford
circuit, together with Oxford, Gloucester, Worcester and Hereford.
The status of Monmouthshire as a Welsh county is more fully explained on
Glyn Hale's excellent website (http://halefamily.net/gwent.html) from where
I have taken much of the information above.
A more detailed and authoritative account is given in Volume 2 of "Annals
and Antiquities of the Counties and County Families of Wales", by Thomas
Nicholas, published Longmans, Green, Reader, & Co., London , 1872. Nicholas
devotes over four pages of his book to a vehement and well-argued dismissal
of what he describes as "this vulgar error"; i.e. the claim that
Monmouthshire is or was in England. He quotes verbatim the relevant
paragraphs from the Act of Union, which clearly state that,
". . .all the residue of the said Lords Marcher within the saide Countrey or
Dominion of Wales shall be served and divided into certaine particular
Counties or Shires, that is to say: The Countie or Shire of Mommouth, the
Countie of Shire of Brekenoke, the Countie or Shire of Radnor, the Countie
or Shire of Mountgomery, the Countie or Shire of Denbigh."
It is clear that Monmouthshire was treated in precisely the same way as the
other four new Welsh counties.
I am currently converting the full text of Nicholas's explanation, including
the quotes from the Act of Union, into editable text, and hope to upload it
onto my website in the next few days.
Kind regards,
John
--------------------
John Ball, Brecon, Mid-Wales, UK
E-mail: john(a)jlb2005.plus.com
John's Homepage: http://www.jlb2005.plus.com/
Images of Wales: http://www.jlb2005.plus.com/walespic/
Welsh Family History Archive: http://www.jlb2005.plus.com/wales/
GENUKI Breconshire Maintainer: http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/BRE/
Brecknock FH Group Webmaster: http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~wlsbfhs/
Joint Administrator - Powys (& BRE/MGY/RAD) RootsWeb mailing lists
Greetings. I am new to the list and have much to learn, but eager to begin.
I would appreciate any help that can be offered as to understanding the
system of parishes, townships, provinces, etc. I understand these have been
redrawn over the years--but I am lost at this time.
Also, I am searching for two families: Edmonds, believe to be of Beguildy,
and Harding (for which I have not barely a clue). I am enclosing what is
known or suspected below, and would appreciate any suggestions for further
research.
I am searching for *Thomas Edmonds*, born circa 1805-09. Son of Thomas and
Jane Loyd Edmonds.
Siblings: John and Jane.
Birth Dates cited include: 6 April, 1805 (biography), 7 April, 1808
(headstone), 1809 (1851 Wales Census, if correct).
Married *Mary Evans*, born 1804-1808, according to his biography published
in the USA. Her parents unknown.
Children include: Mary (1833), Margaret, (?), Jane (1840), Anne
(?) Jonathan (1842), Edwin (1845), Elizabeth (1848) and Sarah (1850).
Mary married *William Harding*, likely after arriving in Wisconsin, USA as
first child known to that union was born in 1856.
Reputed to have sailed from Liverpool in 1851 and arrived New York.
A family that appears a likely match is documented in the 1851 Wales Census:
Radnorshire>Creigbyther>District 1a>7. This shows that Thomas was born in
Beguildy and his wife Mary was born in LLangunlllo. Children all born in
Beguildy.
Thank you very much in advance for any assistance that can be offered. If I
can in anyway return a research service here, please do not hesitate. Kind
regards,
Mary Ann Harding
Lincoln Nebraska USA
Dear Listers,
The Brecknock Goup website is now displaying photographs taken at the Powys
Family History Society AGM at Llandrindod Wells yesterday.
Go to www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~wlsbfhs/ and follow the 'Photogallery'
link.
The event , which combined the AGM with a celebration of the 30th
Anniversary of the founding of the Powys FHS, was well attended, and the
photos will help you put faces to some well known names in the Powys FHS.
Kind regards,
John
--------------------
John Ball, Brecon, Mid-Wales, UK
E-mail: john(a)jlb2005.plus.com
John's Homepage: http://www.jlb2005.plus.com/
Images of Wales: http://www.jlb2005.plus.com/walespic/
Welsh Family History Archive: http://www.jlb2005.plus.com/wales/
GENUKI Breconshire Maintainer: http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/BRE/
Brecknock FH Group Webmaster: http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~wlsbfhs/
Joint Administrator - Powys (& BRE/MGY/RAD) RootsWeb mailing lists
To Powys FHS
Congratulations on first 30 years and best wishes for continued success. Wishing all members and visitors an informative and pleasant day.(Wish I could be there!)
Kind regards,
Dawn Stanton (Tas.)
I would like to thank everyone who helped me by translating the letter my
greatgrandmother wrote to her son in the USA about the sad death of her other
son, my grandfather.
It was very interesting to see the various translations, all similar but none
identical.
In particular I thank Elizabeth of EMGS Demon account, Yvonne Evans, Glyn
Davies and Maureen Saycell.
I have sent all the various translations to descendants of the son in the USA.
Thank you all very much.
It might interest you to know that my contact in the States has now found a
newspaper account of my grandfather's life and work in a journal called "Y
Tyst" and in another called "Cronicl Annibynwyr Llanbrynmair a'r Cylch". These
are rather long articles and I hesitate to ask anyone to translate them for me
without payment for their trouble.
Margaret
Thanks so much for this information Jon and the Garthfach identification, it's
much appreciated.
Maybe one day I will find a link to these Hamers ... !!
Kind regards,
Natalie
________________________________
From: Jonathan Lloyd <jon.lloyd(a)dsl.pipex.com>
To: powys(a)rootsweb.com
Sent: Thu, 7 October, 2010 13:05:39
Subject: Re: [POWYS] Dwelling-name query - 'Southfach'
Hi Natalie
The will I mentioned is that of Thomas Hamer Trefloge, Llandinam, bachelor
made 17th April 1828 and proved 12 June 1830 with witnesses James Hamer and
John Thomas.
legacies to my sister Margaret Hamer wife of Thomas Davies £10
to my sister Elizabeth Bennett widow £5
to my sister Mariah Hamer single woman £5
to my niece Mary wife of John Jones Trefloge £10 and bed and furniture in
consideration of
her trouble in attending me in my illness
residue to my brother Richard Hamer of Pant
I'm not 100% certain if this refers to Pantpoeth or Pant(yddewispaen) both
having Hamer links
in the parish - then again so do Pantynysbren, Pant cae and Pant y dwr!
best wishes
Jon
----- Original Message -----
From: "Natalie" <nat75sch(a)yahoo.co.uk>
To: <powys(a)rootsweb.com>
Sent: Wednesday, October 06, 2010 7:43 PM
Subject: Re: [POWYS] Dwelling-name query - 'Southfach'
> Hi Jon
>
> I'm sure I'm right now too with my gravestone ! A Thomas Hamer is a
> witness on
> marriage certificate so another confirmation.
>
>
> Although Brynhafod sounds familiar, I don't think our Hamers are related ?
> I
> think I just know the name from searching through Hamer families over the
> years.
>
>
>
> I have a record of the children of David Hamer and Sarah Lloyd, but have
> 10
> rather than 9 ..
>
> I would be interested to have any more details from the will. I only have
> David
> Hamer of Pantpoeth and think his parents were a James Hamer and Anne.
>
> There must be a link between my two lots of Hamers at Pantpoeth and
> Treflogue,
> and the two you mention in the will !
>
> Thanks & regards,
> Natalie
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Jonathan Lloyd <jon.lloyd(a)dsl.pipex.com>
> To: powys(a)rootsweb.com
> Sent: Wed, 6 October, 2010 18:15:10
> Subject: Re: [POWYS] Dwelling-name query - 'Southfach'
>
>
> Hi Natalie
>
> I'm sure you have the right gravestone, and have seen other examples of a
> father named on a
> marriage certificate without mentioning his decease. I don't think the
> family mentioned on Ancestry are linked for now.
>
> Briefly my Hamer born at Garthfawr 1864 was the son of Jane Hamer, the
> family being tenants at Cynidfa,
> itself owned by Brynhafod which was farmed by Jane's brother John.
>
> If it helps I have an 1830 will of Thomas Hamer, Trefloge leaving property
> to his brother Richard of Pantpoeth,
> and a note of the 9 Pantpoeth children of David Hamer (1833-) & Sarah
> Lloyd
> (1845-).
>
> regards
>
> Jon
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Natalie" <nat75sch(a)yahoo.co.uk>
> To: <powys(a)rootsweb.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, October 05, 2010 8:55 PM
> Subject: Re: [POWYS] Dwelling-name query - 'Southfach'
>
>
>> Hi Jon
>>
>> I had thought that Mary Hamer was the daughter of Richard Hamer
>> (1804-1843) and
>> Mary Owens after I found a gravestone at Newchapel Baptist Church. It
>> also
>> mentions a son Thomas.
>>
>>
>> However when I received Mary Hamer's marriage certificate to Edward
>> Davies
>> in
>> 1864 it does not list the father Richard as deceased, which made me
>> question
>> whether the gravestone was the correct one for my family.
>>
>>
>> Having searched various censuses on Ancestry this week I have found a
>> family -
>> Richard Hamer and Mary, with a daughter Mary (in 1841/51 & 61) as
>> follows:
>> 1841 - Lived at Tynaberth, (Township of) Gollon, Parish of Abbeycwmhir
>> with wife
>> and son.
>> 1851 - Lived at Noyadd, (Township of) Trecoed with wife and 4 children.
>> Farmer
>> of 274 acres with 2 farm labourers and a servant.
>> 1861 - Lived at Noyadd, (Township of) Trecoed with wife and 6 children.
>> Farmer
>> of 272 acres with a servant and a cow man.
>> 1871 - Lived at Coedgugan Hall, Llanbadarn Fawr with wife, 3 children and
>> grandson. Farmer of 135 acres and 1 servant.
>> 1881 - Lived at Pool Farm, ?Dewyfach, Breconshire with wife, brother
>> David
>> and
>> son David. Farmer of 104 acres with 3 servants and a lodger.
>>
>>
>>
>> This fits as by 1871 Mary is married. But there is no son Thomas, so
>> these
>> can't
>> be the people on the gravestone.
>>
>>
>> Another lister Lynne, mentioned Garthfach Farm House, Eskirmaen - where
>> both an
>> Edward Davies and Mary Hamer are listed. This sounds very likely to be
>> mis-transcribed as Southfach, and this Mary is a different one to that in
>> Trecoed above !
>>
>> It seems that although Richard Hamer was deceased at the time of daughter
>> Mary's
>> marriage, this is not recorded on the marriage certificate - is this
>> quite
>> a
>> common occurrence ?
>>
>> I also have other Hamer's - David Hamer of Pantpoeth, also known as 'the
>> crippled cobbler'.
>>
>> Who is your Hamer great grandfather ?
>>
>> Kind regards,
>> Natalie
>>
>> Barry
>> South Wales
>>
>>
>>
>> ________________________________
>> From: Jonathan Lloyd <jon.lloyd(a)dsl.pipex.com>
>> To: powys(a)rootsweb.com
>> Sent: Tue, 5 October, 2010 18:59:09
>> Subject: Re: [POWYS] Dwelling-name query - 'Southfach'
>>
>> Hi Natalie
>>
>> Your Mary (1839-1915) was the daughter of Richard Hamer (1804-43) and
>> brought up at
>> Trefloge fach, an 8 acre smallholding (see 1851 census). Its very close
>> to
>> both the chapel and to Garth fach
>> already mentioned, where she and Edward (b St Harmon 1829-96) were in
>> 1861.
>> Both properties, (as well as
>> the adjacent Garth fawr where my Hamer great grandfather was born), have
>> longstanding links with the
>> same interconnected families, its often difficult to distinguish Hamers
>> in
>> this parish.
>> My best guess is that "Southfach" is a transcription error for one of the
>> two??
>>
>> regards
>>
>> Jon Lloyd
>>
>> Cardiff
>>
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Natalie" <nat75sch(a)yahoo.co.uk>
>> To: <powys(a)rootsweb.com>
>> Sent: Monday, October 04, 2010 8:45 PM
>> Subject: [POWYS] Dwelling-name query - 'Southfach'
>>
>>
>>> Dear Listers
>>>
>>> I have recently received the marriage certificate of my GGG
>>> Grandparents,
>>> Edward
>>> Davies and Mary Hamer who married by Banns in Banhadlog Chapel,
>>> Montgomeryshire
>>> on 20th May 1864.
>>>
>>>
>>> Both gave their place of residence at the time of the marriage as
>>> "Southfach".
>>> Does anyone know where this is, or the correct spelling of the dwelling
>>> it
>>> refers to ?
>>>
>>> This strikes me as an unusual combination of English and Welsh in one
>>> word! A
>>> Google search reveals nothing.
>>>
>>> In 1871 the couple and their 3 young children lived at Penddol,
>>> Cennarth,
>>> St
>>> Harmon, Radnorshire, so perhaps 'Southfach' is in this vicinity ??
>>>
>>> Any suggestions appreciated ..
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Natalie
>>> South Wales.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
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>>> www.jlb2005.plus.com/powyslist.htm
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>>
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Edward Thomas Evans was the son of Jane nee Thomas and Edward Evans.He was born in 1851.Did he marry in Wales?
If anyone is able to confirm this,it would be very much appreciated.Chris from NZ
Thank you John for the reminder re the AGM, regret to say I will not be able to
make it, so please forward my apologies and congratulations on 30 years.
Regards Dave Jones
________________________________
From: John Ball <john(a)jlb2005.plus.com>
To: Powys List <powys(a)rootsweb.com>
Sent: Thursday, 7 October, 2010 10:41:39
Subject: [POWYS] Powys FHS AGM - Saturday 9 October
Dear Listers,
A reminder that the Powys Family History Society AGM is being held on
Saturday, 9th October in Llandrindod Wells.
The AGM will be combined with a celebration of the 30th Anniversary of the
founding of the Powys FHS.
The AGM will commence at 10:30 am and will be followed by a short talk on
'The Great Court Records' by genealogist and author Michael Gandy.
After lunch, Michael Gandy will present his main talk, entitled 'Seeing it
through their eyes'.
The Powys FHS invites all members to attend the AGM, while non-members are
welcome to enjoy the rest of the day's events.
Full details were published in the August issue of 'Cronicl Powys', but see
also in the 'News' section of the Brecknock Group website:
www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~wlsbfhs/news.htm
and on the main Powys FHS website:
www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~wlspfhs/Pages/Events.html
Kind regards,
John
--------------------
John Ball, Brecon, Mid-Wales, UK
E-mail: john(a)jlb2005.plus.com
John's Homepage: http://www.jlb2005.plus.com/
Images of Wales: http://www.jlb2005.plus.com/walespic/
Welsh Family History Archive: http://www.jlb2005.plus.com/wales/
GENUKI Breconshire Maintainer: http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/BRE/
Brecknock FH Group Webmaster: http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~wlsbfhs/
Joint Administrator - Powys (& BRE/MGY/RAD) RootsWeb mailing lists
===================
Visit the Powys Mailing List webpage at: www.jlb2005.plus.com/powyslist.htm
-------------------------------
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the message
Hi Ruth,
Thank you for that. It did cross my mind when someone gave me an Elizabeth
Maddy marrying a Thomas Davies at Pontypridd in March 1945 that she was
quite old to get married for the first time.
The Thomas Jones Merthyr one sounds much more likely as a lot of my family
were in the Valleys at that time and it is likely she visited from
Breconshire.
Also the Samuel Davies marriage is again feasible as I have reason to
believe that they did eventually come to live in her father's house at
Talybont and have stayed there recently where there are a lot of books and
Bibles relating to a William Davies around 1901.
Thank you for your help.
Best wishes
Sue
Dear Listers,
A reminder that the Powys Family History Society AGM is being held on
Saturday, 9th October in Llandrindod Wells.
The AGM will be combined with a celebration of the 30th Anniversary of the
founding of the Powys FHS.
The AGM will commence at 10:30 am and will be followed by a short talk on
'The Great Court Records' by genealogist and author Michael Gandy.
After lunch, Michael Gandy will present his main talk, entitled 'Seeing it
through their eyes'.
The Powys FHS invites all members to attend the AGM, while non-members are
welcome to enjoy the rest of the day's events.
Full details were published in the August issue of 'Cronicl Powys', but see
also in the 'News' section of the Brecknock Group website:
www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~wlsbfhs/news.htm
and on the main Powys FHS website:
www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~wlspfhs/Pages/Events.html
Kind regards,
John
--------------------
John Ball, Brecon, Mid-Wales, UK
E-mail: john(a)jlb2005.plus.com
John's Homepage: http://www.jlb2005.plus.com/
Images of Wales: http://www.jlb2005.plus.com/walespic/
Welsh Family History Archive: http://www.jlb2005.plus.com/wales/
GENUKI Breconshire Maintainer: http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/BRE/
Brecknock FH Group Webmaster: http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~wlsbfhs/
Joint Administrator - Powys (& BRE/MGY/RAD) RootsWeb mailing lists
Sue in Suffolk <sue.cartref(a)virgin.net> wrote:
My problem is that I have an Elizabeth Dorothy Maddy born 1891 Brecknock
(Cross Oak, Talybont on Usk) who is in the 1911 Census still living at home
aged 20. According to her gravestone she became Elizabeth Dorothy Davies
some time after 1911 but I have searched Find my Past and FreeBMD but there
does not appear to be a marriage for her to anybody named Davies.
==============
Dear Listers,
An account of Sue's MADDY genealogical problem is included as a new addition
to the 'Can You Help?' feature on the Brecknock Group website.
To review the problem, go to the website's home page
(www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~wlsbfhs/), follow the 'Resources' link, then the
'Can You Help?' link.
Kind regards,
John
--------------------
John Ball, Brecon, Mid-Wales, UK
E-mail: john(a)jlb2005.plus.com
John's Homepage: http://www.jlb2005.plus.com/
Images of Wales: http://www.jlb2005.plus.com/walespic/
Welsh Family History Archive: http://www.jlb2005.plus.com/wales/
GENUKI Breconshire Maintainer: http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/BRE/
Brecknock FH Group Webmaster: http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~wlsbfhs/
Joint Administrator - Powys (& BRE/MGY/RAD) RootsWeb mailing lists
Hi Natalie ,
Just a thought ,excuse me if I'm butting in ,
Could your Mary be the daughter of Richard HAMER and Mary (MEREDITH) married March 25th 1836 , by banns St Llonio Llandinam. Richard was deceased by 1851.
1861 widow Mary is living at Trelogaifach Farmhouse Dothenydd & Eskirmaen,with son Thomas 1838 Llandinam and nephew Richard HAMER 1854 Llandinam.
Lynne.
----- Original Message -----
From: "DAVID JONES" <evadlezah01(a)btinternet.com>
To: <powys(a)rootsweb.com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 05, 2010 5:46 PM
Subject: Re: [POWYS] Adoptions
<<There is a book compiled by Georgina Stafford, it is a guide for
counsellors,
adopted people and birth parents entitled where to find 'ADOPTION RECORDS' ,
which list records for Wales ,Scotland and England. I an not certain but I
think
that compulsory adoption records were not enforced until about 1934, before
that
it was the church or the Poor Law Board or private agencies.>>
It might sometimes also help to try the Adoption Search Reunion database:
http://www.adoptionsearchreunion.org.uk/search/questions/ or
http://www.adoptionsearchreunion.org.uk/search/adoptionrecords/
although such sources can never be fully comprehensive.
The Adoption Register actually dates from 1927. Before that time adoption
was a private arrangement, often with no more than an unrecorded verbal
agreement between individual families, and not necessarily involving any
other agencies.
AJ
Hi Jon
I had thought that Mary Hamer was the daughter of Richard Hamer (1804-1843) and
Mary Owens after I found a gravestone at Newchapel Baptist Church. It also
mentions a son Thomas.
However when I received Mary Hamer's marriage certificate to Edward Davies in
1864 it does not list the father Richard as deceased, which made me question
whether the gravestone was the correct one for my family.
Having searched various censuses on Ancestry this week I have found a family -
Richard Hamer and Mary, with a daughter Mary (in 1841/51 & 61) as follows:
1841 - Lived at Tynaberth, (Township of) Gollon, Parish of Abbeycwmhir with wife
and son.
1851 - Lived at Noyadd, (Township of) Trecoed with wife and 4 children. Farmer
of 274 acres with 2 farm labourers and a servant.
1861 - Lived at Noyadd, (Township of) Trecoed with wife and 6 children. Farmer
of 272 acres with a servant and a cow man.
1871 - Lived at Coedgugan Hall, Llanbadarn Fawr with wife, 3 children and
grandson. Farmer of 135 acres and 1 servant.
1881 - Lived at Pool Farm, ?Dewyfach, Breconshire with wife, brother David and
son David. Farmer of 104 acres with 3 servants and a lodger.
This fits as by 1871 Mary is married. But there is no son Thomas, so these can't
be the people on the gravestone.
Another lister Lynne, mentioned Garthfach Farm House, Eskirmaen - where both an
Edward Davies and Mary Hamer are listed. This sounds very likely to be
mis-transcribed as Southfach, and this Mary is a different one to that in
Trecoed above !
It seems that although Richard Hamer was deceased at the time of daughter Mary's
marriage, this is not recorded on the marriage certificate - is this quite a
common occurrence ?
I also have other Hamer's - David Hamer of Pantpoeth, also known as 'the
crippled cobbler'.
Who is your Hamer great grandfather ?
Kind regards,
Natalie
Barry
South Wales
________________________________
From: Jonathan Lloyd <jon.lloyd(a)dsl.pipex.com>
To: powys(a)rootsweb.com
Sent: Tue, 5 October, 2010 18:59:09
Subject: Re: [POWYS] Dwelling-name query - 'Southfach'
Hi Natalie
Your Mary (1839-1915) was the daughter of Richard Hamer (1804-43) and
brought up at
Trefloge fach, an 8 acre smallholding (see 1851 census). Its very close to
both the chapel and to Garth fach
already mentioned, where she and Edward (b St Harmon 1829-96) were in 1861.
Both properties, (as well as
the adjacent Garth fawr where my Hamer great grandfather was born), have
longstanding links with the
same interconnected families, its often difficult to distinguish Hamers in
this parish.
My best guess is that "Southfach" is a transcription error for one of the
two??
regards
Jon Lloyd
Cardiff
----- Original Message -----
From: "Natalie" <nat75sch(a)yahoo.co.uk>
To: <powys(a)rootsweb.com>
Sent: Monday, October 04, 2010 8:45 PM
Subject: [POWYS] Dwelling-name query - 'Southfach'
> Dear Listers
>
> I have recently received the marriage certificate of my GGG Grandparents,
> Edward
> Davies and Mary Hamer who married by Banns in Banhadlog Chapel,
> Montgomeryshire
> on 20th May 1864.
>
>
> Both gave their place of residence at the time of the marriage as
> "Southfach".
> Does anyone know where this is, or the correct spelling of the dwelling it
> refers to ?
>
> This strikes me as an unusual combination of English and Welsh in one
> word! A
> Google search reveals nothing.
>
> In 1871 the couple and their 3 young children lived at Penddol, Cennarth,
> St
> Harmon, Radnorshire, so perhaps 'Southfach' is in this vicinity ??
>
> Any suggestions appreciated ..
>
> Thanks,
> Natalie
> South Wales.
>
>
>
>
>
> ===================
> Visit the Powys Mailing List webpage at:
> www.jlb2005.plus.com/powyslist.htm
>
> -------------------------------
> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to
> POWYS-request(a)rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes
> in the subject and the body of the message
===================
Visit the Powys Mailing List webpage at: www.jlb2005.plus.com/powyslist.htm
-------------------------------
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Hi Sue,
Elizabeth .D. MADDY to Thomas DAVIES mch qtr 1945 Pontypridd . 11a 1034.
Lynne. (FBMD)
----- Original Message -----
From: "Sue" <sue.cartref(a)virgin.net>
To: <powys(a)rootsweb.com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 05, 2010 5:01 PM
Subject: [POWYS] Maddy
>
> Hi everyone,
>
> My problem is that I have an Elizabeth Dorothy Maddy born 1891 Brecknock
> (Cross Oak, Talybont on Usk) who is in the 1911 Census still living at
> home aged 20. According to her gravestone she became Elizabeth Dorothy
> Davies some time after 1911 but I have searched Find my Past and FreeBMD
> but there does not appear to be a marriage for her to anybody named
> Davies.
>
> Can anyone help please?
>
> Best wishes
>
> Sue in Suffolk
>
> ===================
> Visit the Powys Mailing List webpage at:
> www.jlb2005.plus.com/powyslist.htm
>
> -------------------------------
> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to
> POWYS-request(a)rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes
> in the subject and the body of the message
>
>
Hi everyone,
My problem is that I have an Elizabeth Dorothy Maddy born 1891 Brecknock (Cross Oak, Talybont on Usk) who is in the 1911 Census still living at home aged 20. According to her gravestone she became Elizabeth Dorothy Davies some time after 1911 but I have searched Find my Past and FreeBMD but there does not appear to be a marriage for her to anybody named Davies.
Can anyone help please?
Best wishes
Sue in Suffolk
Hi list I also have fostered ancestors.
David and Elizabeth EVANS [ both aged 25] of Little House Colva & their 3
children Elizabeth,John & Reese were found on the 1841 census.
But no trace on the 1851 census anywhere in Wales but there is a 12 year old
Elizabeth EVANS born Colva working as a servant on a farm in Llanfihangel
Nant-Melan which fits. Also there is a 'foster child' named Rees EVANS living
with a Thomas & Mary WILLIAMS in Upper Ffynonny in Colva, but Rees's age is
given as 5. This could be a transcription error as Rees would be 11. Or perhaps,
as the WILLIAMS were fostering, the age may have been rounded down on purpose or
because the parish did not know his age, as a child under 8 would be helped by
the parish. A very loose subject this fostering. My grandmother was fostered
back in 1876 and by the 1901 census she was married, her husband was named as
'head' & living with them were her foster parents John & Dinah RENDLE named as '
father in law & mother in law.