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Oh dear!
Ruth, I would never suggest
obsession outside myself.
I'm so sorry.
I welcome all suggestions that could help solve this long-standing mystery.
My grandfather had an amazing sense of humour and imagination and your
suggestion would have brought out some of his best but untranslatable
comments.
His willpower matched that of his mother and he refused to allow her to rule
his life and later that of his young wife.
I haven't David Thomas' birth certificate but am working on it.
His marriage certificate confirms David as his father.
Thank you for Richelieu H. Jones' death particulars.
I must admit I hadn't thought of a family relationship - David and Richelieu
H.
Where in heaven's name did Richelieu come from?
Best regards,
Marion.
----- Original Message -----
From: <RufHay(a)aol.com>
To: <POWYS-L(a)rootsweb.com>
Sent: Tuesday, April 25, 2006 3:51 AM
Subject: Re: [POWYS] GGRANDFATHER DAVID JONES AND HIS HEREFORD SISTERS.
> Hi Marion (& Listers)
>
> As I was saying when the email fled (again!) the scenario I suggested is
> just one of various possibilities but I do think that there is a strong
> likelihood of a connection between Richelieu H Jones & your Watkin
> Richelieu Jones.
> Even more so now that you have found out that RHJ & DTJ lived in the same
> road
> (& may or may not have overlapped there - we can't know because of the 10
> year
> gap in the census).
>
> I assume that you haven't got DTJ's birth certificate , but it would be a
> great help of course. I agree with Julie that the marriage certificate of
> David
> Thomas Jones (b 1850) would give you the best help now, absolutely crucial
> in
> fact, with some real evidence of who his father was - you could eliminate
> the
> possibility that Richelieu H Jones (b1837) was DTJ's father
>
> ( have you considered that?)
>
> & therefore Grandfather to Watkin RJ!!! Or RHJ could have been a brother
> of
> DTJ.
>
> I found Richelieu H Jones some months ago & suggested that there was a
> likely
> connection - but I just can't find him again. Absolutely nowhere on the
> LDS
> familysearch site (including 1881 census) which I expect would have been
> my
> source for him. In desperation I tried Free bmd & found only his death in
> 1909
> aged 72 reg in Sept qtr in Fulham. I see that you know RHJ had a wife &
> child
> in 1871. His marriage cert might be a help too as his father might prove
> to
> be part of your Jones family.
>
> By the way - you mentioned obsession & I hope you don't think I am
> obsessed
> with these Richelieu theories - they are just a few thoughts, that I hoped
> might help! (My own FH is afflicted with many brickwalls right now)
>
> Best regards,
> Ruth
>
>
> ==== POWYS Mailing List ====
> GENUKI Pages for Wales: http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/
>
>
This is a great map, however, the area I want to see comes between two squares.
Is there a way around this?? This is not the first map I have tried to access with this problem.
Need the Tanat Valley. The area east of Llanrhaeadr YM-Llangedwyn is covered by a demarcation line!
Joan
Canada
A massive to thanks to Aidan, I've now got a transcription for this.
Just letting people know, so noone else takes the trouble of
transcribing this.
Alison
On 4/24/06, Alison Bryan <alison.bryan(a)gmail.com> wrote:
> I've seen this before, and I know there's a bit relating to
> Trefeglwys. However, I don't remember where it is! If anyone
> browsing through this document comes across it, please could you give
> me the page numbers.
>
> If you would also like to transcribe it the Trefeglwys bit, I would
> love you even more. :-)
>
> A transcribed out Alison
>
>
> On 4/24/06, Martin Briscoe <mbriscoe(a)zetnet.co.uk> wrote:
> > I just came across a reference to these books elsewhere. There is a mass of
> > information in them particular the appendices listing schools active in
> > 1847.
> >
> > http://www.llgc.org.uk/drych/drych_s088.htm
> >
> >
> > Martin Briscoe
> > Fort William
> > M&LFHS | Gwynedd FHS
> >
> >
> > ==== POWYS Mailing List ====
> > GENUKI Pages for Wales: http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/
> >
> >
>
I made a transcript of the Trefeglwys report some time ago - along with all
the Cardiganshire reports
http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/CGN/CommsEnq.html.
Looks like they are now mostly redundant!
AJ
----- Original Message -----
From: "Alison Bryan" <alison.bryan(a)gmail.com>
To: <POWYS-L(a)rootsweb.com>
Sent: Monday, April 24, 2006 11:12 AM
Subject: Re: [POWYS] The Blue Books of 1847
> I've seen this before, and I know there's a bit relating to
> Trefeglwys. However, I don't remember where it is! If anyone
> browsing through this document comes across it, please could you give
> me the page numbers.
>
> If you would also like to transcribe it the Trefeglwys bit, I would
> love you even more. :-)
> On 4/24/06, Martin Briscoe <mbriscoe(a)zetnet.co.uk> wrote:
> > I just came across a reference to these books elsewhere. There is a
mass of
> > information in them particular the appendices listing schools active in
> > 1847. http://www.llgc.org.uk/drych/drych_s088.htm
Ty Newydd
Waun
Penisarwaun
in Caernarvon
(the late Thomas Owen - son Walter Owen occupant in 1974)
the late Morris Evans
Richard Evans
Rhosywian
Mrs. Katie Jones Rhosywian (back in the 1970's)
I'm having trouble locating the places using either streetmap and multimap
websites. Can anyone point me in the right direction???
Janice
Hello,
We did discuss the unusual name Richelieu and how it could be connected to
my grandfather.
One of the list contributors sent me census material for Richelieu H. Jones
and I found that he and his wife and daughter had lived in the same street
as my great-grandfather, David Thomas Jones. That was Harford Street,
Bedminster. However, that was in 1861 for Richelieu and 1871 for David
Thomas.
In 1871 Richelieu was still living in Bristol but not in that street.
By 1881 he and his family had moved to Plymouth.
It would be very interesting to see where Richelieu H. Jones was living in
the 1851 and 1841census. I know he was born in Bristol.
I believe David Thomas Jones was present for all the relevant events in his
family life until about 1877 or 1878. Mystery after that!
I love all the interaction with family history - just get concerned about
the obsession.
Regards,
Marion.
----- Original Message -----
From: <RufHay(a)aol.com>
To: <POWYS-L(a)rootsweb.com>
Sent: Sunday, April 23, 2006 8:45 PM
Subject: Re: [POWYS] GGRANDFATHER DAVID JONES AND HIS HEREFORD SISTERS.
> Hi Marion
>
> I seem to remember that we talked a while back about this name Richelieu,
> which I felt had to be significant & not plucked from the air. I found
> someone
> named Richelieu in the vicinity of Bristol & imagined a scenario in which
> this
> man was Watkin Richelieu's biological father - causing David Jones to
> disappear in high dudgeon.
>
> You replied that David would not have stood by watching the baptism if he
> had
> any doubts that the child was his. Do you
>
>
> ==== POWYS Mailing List ====
> Montgomeryshire Genealogical Society: http://home.freeuk.net/montgensoc
>
>
Hi Marion (& Listers)
As I was saying when the email fled (again!) the scenario I suggested is
just one of various possibilities but I do think that there is a strong
likelihood of a connection between Richelieu H Jones & your Watkin Richelieu Jones.
Even more so now that you have found out that RHJ & DTJ lived in the same road
(& may or may not have overlapped there - we can't know because of the 10 year
gap in the census).
I assume that you haven't got DTJ's birth certificate , but it would be a
great help of course. I agree with Julie that the marriage certificate of David
Thomas Jones (b 1850) would give you the best help now, absolutely crucial in
fact, with some real evidence of who his father was - you could eliminate the
possibility that Richelieu H Jones (b1837) was DTJ's father
( have you considered that?)
& therefore Grandfather to Watkin RJ!!! Or RHJ could have been a brother of
DTJ.
I found Richelieu H Jones some months ago & suggested that there was a likely
connection - but I just can't find him again. Absolutely nowhere on the LDS
familysearch site (including 1881 census) which I expect would have been my
source for him. In desperation I tried Free bmd & found only his death in 1909
aged 72 reg in Sept qtr in Fulham. I see that you know RHJ had a wife & child
in 1871. His marriage cert might be a help too as his father might prove to
be part of your Jones family.
By the way - you mentioned obsession & I hope you don't think I am obsessed
with these Richelieu theories - they are just a few thoughts, that I hoped
might help! (My own FH is afflicted with many brickwalls right now)
Best regards,
Ruth
I just received a marriage record for Mary DAVIES, b. 1819 in Trebanog, Brecknockshire. She married Phillip THOMAS, b. 1821 in Bedwellty, Momouthshire, in 1843 in Merthyr Tydfil. It states that her father was Samuel DAVIES, farmer. Phillip's father was Benjamin THOMAS, miner. I have the 1851 Merthyr Tydfil census showing Mary, Phillip, and daughter Sarah, b. 1844 in Merthyr Tydfil. This is where I got the birth place for Mary.
Mary passed some time between the 1851 census and 1854. I have Phillip, a widower, marrying Anne DAVIES, b. 1831, in Merthyr Tydfil. It also states that her father was Samuel DAVIES, farmer. I don't have a census record for Anne DAVIES. They had my grandmother Margaret Ann THOMAS in 1855 and Phillip moved his family to USA in 1857 and settled in Frostburg, Allegany County, Maryland. I have a lot of info from this time on but the above is all the info I have in Wales.
I am a member of the Glamorgan List and so far I haven't had any luck with anyone researching this family. I was hoping that someone on this list might be researching the Davies family.
Lois Hopkins
Hi Folks
Powys FHS are pleased to announce their Members Interests 2006 Booklet is now available on line at
www.parishchest.comwww.genfair.com
Along with PR's for Norton (RAD) and Llangamarch (BRE)
Mike
Powys FHS
I've seen this before, and I know there's a bit relating to
Trefeglwys. However, I don't remember where it is! If anyone
browsing through this document comes across it, please could you give
me the page numbers.
If you would also like to transcribe it the Trefeglwys bit, I would
love you even more. :-)
A transcribed out Alison
On 4/24/06, Martin Briscoe <mbriscoe(a)zetnet.co.uk> wrote:
> I just came across a reference to these books elsewhere. There is a mass of
> information in them particular the appendices listing schools active in
> 1847.
>
> http://www.llgc.org.uk/drych/drych_s088.htm
>
>
> Martin Briscoe
> Fort William
> M&LFHS | Gwynedd FHS
>
>
> ==== POWYS Mailing List ====
> GENUKI Pages for Wales: http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/
>
>
Dear Listers
A wonderful new set of mid 19th century maps is now freely available online
at:
http://archivemaps.com/mapco/lewis/lewis.htm
The description (below) is adapted from an announcement on the Suffolk
mailing list:
-----------------------
David Hale of Mapco is making Samuel Lewis's 1840 map of England and Wales
available on-line free.
Lewis's map is incredibly detailed and of extremely high quality.
The original comprises four separate maps, including all of Wales.
Clicking on a section of the map produces an enlarged image in four segments
each of which can be clicked on to further enlarge that particular segment.
The individual segments can be downloaded (for personal use only).
-----------------------------------
Kind regards,
John (aka 'John the Map')
--------------------
John Ball, Ystalyfera, near Swansea, Wales, UK
Welsh Family History Archive: http://www.jlb2005.plus.com/wales/
GENUKI Breconshire Maintainer: http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/BRE/
Joint Administrator - Powys (& BRE/MGY/RAD) mailing lists
I just came across a reference to these books elsewhere. There is a mass of
information in them particular the appendices listing schools active in
1847.
http://www.llgc.org.uk/drych/drych_s088.htm
Martin Briscoe
Fort William
M&LFHS | Gwynedd FHS
Hi again
My last email disappeared as I was in mid sentence. I was going to say - do
you know for a fact that David Jones was present at the baptism of Watkin
Richelieu Jones? (Even so he could have found out the real facts later).
By the way, I forget now where I found the Richelieu man - did you keep a
note of him?
Best regards, Ruth
Hi Marion
I seem to remember that we talked a while back about this name Richelieu,
which I felt had to be significant & not plucked from the air. I found someone
named Richelieu in the vicinity of Bristol & imagined a scenario in which this
man was Watkin Richelieu's biological father - causing David Jones to
disappear in high dudgeon.
You replied that David would not have stood by watching the baptism if he had
any doubts that the child was his. Do you
Hi,
They are reported as the landowners re a roadside " field Art" display of
200 old sheepskins on sticks by the A44 at New Radnor - a Powysland scheme with
Powys CC it seems!! They seem to have forgotten al the BSE and Foot and
Mouth problems in Wales,etc, ?? Dennis
Marion,
I believe locating his marriage certificate is crucial. There were many reasons for a child to be out "at nurse" -- among them, a mother who wasn't able to nurse a baby or was ill.
Good luck!
Julie Preston
juliefpreston(a)sbcglobal.net
----- Original Message -----
From: Marion O'Sullivan
To: juliefpreston(a)sbcglobal.net
Sent: Saturday, April 22, 2006 10:19 PM
Subject: GGRANDFATHER DAVID JONES
Hello Julie,
I believe the "think his father's name was David" is evidence of my uncertainty and failing hope of ever finding out what happened to ggrandfather David.
I promised my father I would look for him and certainly didn't think I would still be looking after all these years.
Yes, you are correct, my grandfather was named after his maternal grandfather.
The 1851 census David Jones found "at nurse" is most likely correct.
Why did these babies need to be placed out? Maybe that would help me.
1861 census: Not found.
1871 census: Married and living in Bedminster, Bristol.
1872, 1874 and 1876 father to children.
1881 census: Wife, Mary Anna declares herself a widow and is living in Tenby with her daughter, Margaret Jane.
David Jones is not an unusual name and there are some references from Durham, Bedwelty, etc. Nothing to substantiate.
I don't think he wanted to be found.
Thank you for your help and I will follow those ideas.
Regards,
Marion O'Sullivan.
Hello Del,
Image of 1841 census re Elizabeth Pritchard sent direct.
Unable to find Daniel & Elizabeth in 1871, but there is a likely death
reference for a Daniel Gay in September Quar. 1863 at Crickhowell
(registration district for Llangynidr), 116, 80
In 1871, Esther Gay is enumerated at Cathedine, Breconshire:
At Penheolyrelin?
James Thomas, head, marr., 54, ag. lab., born Llangadock, Carmarthenshire
Ann Thomas, wife, marr., 56, born Cathedine, Breconshire
Ester Gay, niece, unmarr., 21, servant, born Merthyr Tydfil, Glamorgan
Is Ann possibly a sister of Elizabeth's?
Rina
-------Original Message-------
From: Del
Date: 04/22/06 16:06:28
To: Emma Callingham; POWYS-L(a)rootsweb.com
Subject: Re: [POWYS] BRE: Llangorse) David MORGAN
Thank you Emma
This makes much more sense. I was trying to figure out what happened to him
and it sure looks like him in 1851. I thought it was a little weird that she
may have married Evan but stranger things have happened.
Would it be possible for you to please send me the rest of the house that
the Elizabeth PRITCHARD is with in 1851? I'll see if I can find any
connections throughout my tree:-)
Thanks again.
Del
> From: Emma Callingham <emma.callingham(a)tesco.net>
> Date: Sat, 22 Apr 2006 15:09:15 +0100
> To: <POWYS-L(a)rootsweb.com>, <scrapping(a)shaw.ca>
> Subject: Re: [POWYS] BRE: Llangorse) David MORGAN
>
> Hello again Del,
>
> There is a possible entry for your Elizabeth Pritchard in Merthyr in 1841,
> as a 24 year old servant (born out of county) in High Street, Merthyr
> Tydfil. No sign of David, but she may have left him in Llangorse until
she
> remarried.
>
> In 1861, there is an unmarried David Morgan, age 21, born Breconshire, no
> occupation given, apparently living as part of the household of a Joseph
> Prosser at Bridge St., Brithdir, Gelligaer. His relationship to the
> Prossers is not clear. Ancestry.com have chosen to transcribe him as a
> daughter! The enumerator has written D (often used for ditto) in the
> relationship column which might suggest that, like the child recorded
above
> him, he is a son of the household. This seems unlikely as he has been
> placed after younger children and everyone else in the house was born in
> different counties to him. Also, the enumerator has not used ditto marks
> anywhere else on the page where he might have done so. A single
> enumerator's stroke has been placed after the last member of the Prosser
> family and a double stroke after David's entry, which is written alone at
a
> separate schedule - suggesting he may their boarder.
1851, Merthyr Tydfil
HO107/2459, folio 671, pg. 19, sch. 63
At ? Granwen Houses (difficult to read)
Daniel Gay, head, marr., 35, cordwainer, born Stroud ?, Gloucestershire
Elizabeth Gay, wife, marr., 39, born Llangorse, Breconshire
David Morgan, stepson, 11, errand boy, born Llangorse, Breconshire
Esther Anne Gay, daur., 1, born Merthyr Tydfil, Glamorgan
.