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Hello Andrew,
Can't help with 1841 I'm afraid, but I think this might be the family in 1851:
HO107/2447, folio 186, page 31, sch. 128, Blaenavon Iron works, Llanover, Monmouthshire
At ? Tram Road
Maria Smith, head, widow, 52, annuitant fund holder, born Durham, Durham (sic)
Maria Smith, daur.,............17,..................................born Breconshire, Llanelly
Jane Williams, g-daur.,.......11,...................................born Breconshire, Llanelly
Robert Jordan, g-son,.........19, assistant mineral agent, born Breconshire, Llanelly
Best wishes
Rina
(Ref. ancestry.com)
Hi,
could sks help me with the 1841 census for llanelly.
I am looking for Robert Smith Mineral agent and his wife Maria?. Also the same family in 1851 however I think Robert had did by then. I would like to know where they were living.
many thanks
AV
Hi Peter,
I'm also in the USA, and some years ago had great success
finding relatives by writing to the local newspaper in England. I
got the name and address of the paper by phoning the reference
department at my public library, but, of course, it could probably be
found via the internet now.
Just a thought -- although somebody on this list may have a better idea.
Norma in Colorado
On Nov 28, 2005, at 7:52 AM, peter.hanson(a)comcast.net wrote:
> Looking for Maggie Woolley...married Charles Jones.
>
> She is/was the first cousin of my wife's grandmother...we recently
> found letters exchanged in 1985. The address at the time was New
> House, Burgedin, Llanymynech, Powys...don't know if this is still a
> valid address.
>
> Daughter Anona married John Humphreys...had Nigel, Julie and David.
> Daughter Dilys married Richard Thomas...had Bethan, Christine, Anne.
>
> If anyone knows of these people or a means to find them, please let
> me know. We'd like to "expand" this branch of the family and/or
> just make contact.
>
> Peter Hanson
> Cromwell, Connecticut, USA
>
>
>
Hello again Martin,
I have just been looking at the website for the Powysland Club
(Montgomeryshire Collections) and found an entry for Llanfyllin as follows
under "Publications"
http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/powysland/
1997, Volume 85
Llanfyllin, the charter and Laws of Breuteil, by Henry Loyn
The development of Llanfyllin as a market town and the 1780 Llanfyllin
Market House Act, by Murray Chapman.
There may be other references but I have just looked at a few pages. The
names of the officers of the society are included and they could probably
put you in contact with someone who has an interest in Llanfyllin and could
help. The Collections can be seen at some libraries in Montgomeryshire. I
am sure other subscribers to the list will be able to give you more
information.
I didn't realise it was so late, it is time I was in bed and fast asleep!!
Regards,
Margaret H
----- Original Message -----
From: "Martin Briscoe" <mbriscoe(a)zetnet.co.uk>
To: <POWYS-L(a)rootsweb.com>
Sent: Monday, November 28, 2005 12:35 AM
Subject: [POWYS] Powys Archives
> I am thinking of getting down to Powys Archives sometime in the New Year.
> They do not have a complete catalogue online so I wonder if someone using
> the archives could check to see if they have anything from Llanfyllin
> National School in the 1820/1830/1840 period? I suspect that there is
going
> to be nothing as log books seem to start a bit after that period. I would
> EMail the archives themselves but I can't see an EMail address on the
> website.
>
>
>
>
> Martin Briscoe
> Fort William
> M&LFHS | Gwynedd FHS
>
>
>
Dear Lists,
For anyone interested in visiting the Anglesey County Record Office in future, the announcement below was posted to the Listowners England & Wales list.
Regards,
Julie Preston
juliefpreston(a)sbcglobal.net
---- Original Message -----
From: "ANNE VENABLES" <avxed(a)ANGLESEY.GOV.UK>
To: <ARCHIVES-NRA(a)JISCMAIL.AC.UK>
Sent: Thursday, November 24, 2005 10:30 AM
Subject: closure
The Anglesey County Record Office will be open afternoons only every
second Tuesday of the month starting 13 December.
Please could you bring this to the attention of people intending to
visit.
Thank you
Anne
Anne Venables
Archifdy Ynys Môn/Anglesey County Record Office
Shirehall
Lôn Glanhwfa/Glanhwfa Rd.
Llangefni
Ynys Môn/Isle of Anglesey
LL77 7TW
==== LISTOWNERS-ENGWLS Mailing List ====
.
Forwarding for Donald Morgan who sent this to the 'subscribe' address. Donald, the address to post queries to the list is: Powys-L(a)rootsweb.com (omit 'request').
Regards,
Julie Preston
juliefpreston(a)sbcglobal.net
----- Original Message -----
From: Donald Morgan
To: POWYS-L-request(a)rootsweb.com
Sent: Sunday, November 27, 2005 4:15 PM
Subject: Morgans of Montgomeryshire
Looking for help locating information about my great great grandfather
Daniel Morgan born about 1800 in that area. He Married Ann Williams Or
Watkins, unkown when or where, but a son Thomas was born in Montgomeryshire
12 Jan 1826 and a Daughter Ann born about 1828 in Wales and Moved to the USA
, the State of New York about 1830.
Thomas and Ann were my Great Uncle and Great Aunt.
My Great Grandfather was born in USA.
Would be grateful for any help.
Don Morgan
dcskmorgan(a)hotmail.com
Hi Julie,
A dictionary would be unlikely to translate place names. You would need to
break the name up into it's component parts and translate those parts
separately. You can be hindered in this by the mutations within the name
that can make separate words difficult to identify. Also, the pronunciation
and spelling of some placenames change over time making their origins
obscure.
e.g. Pen - head (noun & adjective)
Lan - up
Winllanwen is more difficult but "llan" is usually a church or parish and
"wen" usually refers to the colour white. Perhaps someone else can help
with "win"
Rina
----- Original Message -----
From: "Julie Preston" <juliefpreston(a)sbcglobal.net>
To: <POWYS-L(a)rootsweb.com>
Sent: Sunday, November 27, 2005 2:49 PM
Subject: Re: [POWYS] Variants of Wtra?
>
> Alison,
>
> Thanks for the Welsh-English Dictionary website link -- I tried two
> place-names for my family in Cardiganshire, however, and both yielded "no
> results". Disappointing.
>
> Winllanwen and Penlan
>
> Odd, don't you think?
>
> Best,
>
> Julie
> juliefpreston(a)sbcglobal.net
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Alison Bryan
> To: POWYS-L(a)rootsweb.com
> Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2005 7:17 PM
> Subject: Re: [POWYS] Variants of Wtra?
>
>
> Tony and others
>
> If you haven't come across it already, there's a Welsh-English
> dictionary online here:
>
> http://www.geiriadur.net/
>
> It might be useful for bookmarking for future reference?
>
> Alison
>
>
> On 11/26/05, Anthony Francis <Lynnant(a)shaw.ca> wrote:
> > Hi Bryn,
> > Thank you for your translation. It isn't in my tiny pocket
> dictionary's
> > Welsh/English section but is in the English/Welsh part!:-o
> > It does seem strange that in a community criss-crossed by narrow
> lanes,
> > someone hopes to identify their home by naming it 'Wtra'. It seems more
> > like a way to hide it!;-)
> > Do you think it's likely/possible that people might shorten
> 'Penyrwtre/a'
> > or 'Tynyrwtre/a' to 'Wtre/a'?
> > Thanks again, very much.
> > Cheers, Tony
> >
> > ---------------------------------------
> > >Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2005 09:34:13 +0000
> > >From: Bryn Ellis <bryn(a)helygain.freeserve.co.uk>
> > >Subject: Re: [POWYS] Variants of Wtra?
> > >X-Mailing-List: <POWYS-L(a)rootsweb.com> archive/latest/16697
> > >"Anthony Francis" <Lynnant(a)shaw.ca>
> > >said:
> > >> I've no idea of the meaning of wtra.
> > >'Wtra' means a narrow lane - most common in mid Wales.
> > >So 'Tynyrwtre[a]' is house in the lane, and 'Penyrwtre[a]' is head/end
> of
> > >the lane.
> > >Bryn Ellis
> >
> >
> >
>
> ______________________________
>
>
In the same way as English place names are frequently made up of more than
one word, so are Welsh placenames and a dictionary won't always help. There
is a website which will help with some placenames or names of geographical
features but it is by no means exhaustive and doesn't include these two:
http://www.accomodata.co.uk/wales10.htm
Winllanwen is :
winllan (mutated from gwinllan) - vineyard
and wen (the feminine form of gwyn, gwinllan being a feminine word) - white
or fair or beautiful or blessed.
Fair vineyard?
Penlan - is made up of pen - top or head of something
and lan - this could have come from more than one word and will make sense
in its geographical location eg mutated from glan - shore (of the river or
lake) or (less likely) mutated from llan - church or centre of the village
(more likely in this case to be Penllan). There may be other possibilities
for this as well.
Rhian
----- Original Message -----
From: "Julie Preston" <juliefpreston(a)sbcglobal.net>
To: <POWYS-L(a)rootsweb.com>
Sent: Sunday, November 27, 2005 2:49 PM
Subject: Re: [POWYS] Variants of Wtra?
>
> Alison,
>
> Thanks for the Welsh-English Dictionary website link -- I tried two
place-names for my family in Cardiganshire, however, and both yielded "no
results". Disappointing.
>
> Winllanwen and Penlan
>
> Odd, don't you think?
>
> Best,
>
> Julie
> juliefpreston(a)sbcglobal.net
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Alison Bryan
> To: POWYS-L(a)rootsweb.com
> Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2005 7:17 PM
> Subject: Re: [POWYS] Variants of Wtra?
>
>
> Tony and others
>
> If you haven't come across it already, there's a Welsh-English
> dictionary online here:
>
> http://www.geiriadur.net/
>
> It might be useful for bookmarking for future reference?
>
> Alison
>
>
> On 11/26/05, Anthony Francis <Lynnant(a)shaw.ca> wrote:
> > Hi Bryn,
> > Thank you for your translation. It isn't in my tiny pocket
dictionary's
> > Welsh/English section but is in the English/Welsh part!:-o
> > It does seem strange that in a community criss-crossed by narrow
lanes,
> > someone hopes to identify their home by naming it 'Wtra'. It seems
more
> > like a way to hide it!;-)
> > Do you think it's likely/possible that people might shorten
'Penyrwtre/a'
> > or 'Tynyrwtre/a' to 'Wtre/a'?
> > Thanks again, very much.
> > Cheers, Tony
> >
> > ---------------------------------------
> > >Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2005 09:34:13 +0000
> > >From: Bryn Ellis <bryn(a)helygain.freeserve.co.uk>
> > >Subject: Re: [POWYS] Variants of Wtra?
> > >X-Mailing-List: <POWYS-L(a)rootsweb.com> archive/latest/16697
> > >"Anthony Francis" <Lynnant(a)shaw.ca>
> > >said:
> > >> I've no idea of the meaning of wtra.
> > >'Wtra' means a narrow lane - most common in mid Wales.
> > >So 'Tynyrwtre[a]' is house in the lane, and 'Penyrwtre[a]' is
head/end of
> > >the lane.
> > >Bryn Ellis
> >
> >
> >
>
> ______________________________
>
>
Hi Tony
I assumed it was called its relatively new name of Castell y Gwynt
simply because it is so windy up there. Castle of the wind? My
grandfather used to take me up there when I was small, especially if I
wanted to fly a kite! I think he used to suggest it, just for an
excuse to go up there. Even on the most seemingly windless of days,
you could fly a kite ... we used to walk through a field (the other
side of the road from Pleasant View) and to the edge of the hill,
there was always at least a breeze. From there on a clear day you can
see Rodney's Pillar, on Breidden Hill, east of Welshpool. My
grandfather had an fascination with this one, and always talked about
it. He also used to go up there in Springtime, to hear the cuckoo,
and he hated the fact I could never hear it.
All that said, there are Roman connections with Trefeglwys, and could
have built a fort? High vantage point, thus makes sense. I'm
thinking of the number of Roman coins found at Cil haul in 1835. I
know there used to be Roman mining at Dylife, so thinking of a direct
route east. There's also the 'Roman road' near Caersws, identified as
such because it is straight. Perhaps someone with a bit more
knowledge could chip in here?
I need to pick up a map for the rest of the names that you mention. I
recognise Cefn Barrach from my grandfather talking about it. Perhaps
I need to take another drive up to the Waen ...
Alison
On 11/26/05, Anthony Francis <Lynnant(a)shaw.ca> wrote:
> Hi Alison,
> Thank you for your quick response.
> I was just in the middle of asking you if you knew CastellyGwynt's exact
> location -at the fork in the road, or east or west, and if there had been a
> castle nearby, when I got Dick's info on Cwmllymwynt.
> This got me into the maps and I've just seen 'Pleasant View' on old-map's
> 1891 edition, where 'Castell-y-Gwynt' is today.
> The house(s) just east of it are the two Pen-y-bancs, upper & lower, with
> another tiny name between them.
> Just north of these two is the house accessed through 'Cefn-barrach' & the
> 'no through road', for sale under the name of 'Wtra'. This was simply
> called 'Ty uchaf' in 1891, just south of a stream and waterfall. West of
> the waterfall was 'Ty isaf', lying just east of the lane heading north from
> 'Pleasant View'.
> West of the lane here is 'Creigiau' and further north is 'Hugh's Cot',
> called 'Hughescote' on the modern OS map.
> A little further north of 'Hugh's Cot', the 1891 map shows a Methodist
> chapel with a burial ground, surrounded by half a dozen small-holdings,
> 'Ben-dy', 'Berth-lâs', 'Pant-y-badach', 'Pant-lle', 'Bryn-Hyfryd',
> 'Min-ffordd', just south of Long Hill on the modern map.
> The chapel graveyard is of great interest. I presume it's the one that
> COFLEIN describes as:
> Berth-Las Chapel (Calvinistic Methodist); Broad Class of Site: Religious,
> Ritual and Funerary; Type of Site: CHAPEL; Grid reference: SN95389206;
> Community: Trefeglwys (between Long Hill and Waen)
> I wonder if this might be the chapel where Sam Ashton's folks attended if
> they were not 'Church of England'.
> Cheers, Tony
>
> --------------------------------------------
> >Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2005 09:19:22 +0000
> >From: Alison Bryan <alison.bryan(a)gmail.com>
> >Subject: Re: [POWYS] Trefeglwys, Locating Old Residences in 'the Waun'
> >X-Mailing-List: <POWYS-L(a)rootsweb.com> archive/latest/16679
> >Hi Tony
> >I stumbled on the Castell y Gwynt site a couple of weeks ago, and even
> >mailed the present owners. Website here:
> >http://www.castellb.f9.co.uk/
> >This used to be known as Pleasant View (at least around 1906), my
> >WILLIAMS family used to live there. My grandfather was born there,
> >family bible documenting this:
> >http://www.alisonbryan.com/tree/showphoto.php?photoID=7&showdocs=1
> >This photo was taken there:
> >http://www.alisonbryan.com/tree/showphoto.php?photoID=2
> >I know there are other photos in existence in the family, but I need
> >to get my paws on them.
> >Unsure if the property was known by something else before this.
> >Sorry to be the bearer of bad news.
> >Alison
>
>
>
>
Tony and others
If you haven't come across it already, there's a Welsh-English
dictionary online here:
http://www.geiriadur.net/
It might be useful for bookmarking for future reference?
Alison
On 11/26/05, Anthony Francis <Lynnant(a)shaw.ca> wrote:
> Hi Bryn,
> Thank you for your translation. It isn't in my tiny pocket dictionary's
> Welsh/English section but is in the English/Welsh part!:-o
> It does seem strange that in a community criss-crossed by narrow lanes,
> someone hopes to identify their home by naming it 'Wtra'. It seems more
> like a way to hide it!;-)
> Do you think it's likely/possible that people might shorten 'Penyrwtre/a'
> or 'Tynyrwtre/a' to 'Wtre/a'?
> Thanks again, very much.
> Cheers, Tony
>
> ---------------------------------------
> >Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2005 09:34:13 +0000
> >From: Bryn Ellis <bryn(a)helygain.freeserve.co.uk>
> >Subject: Re: [POWYS] Variants of Wtra?
> >X-Mailing-List: <POWYS-L(a)rootsweb.com> archive/latest/16697
> >"Anthony Francis" <Lynnant(a)shaw.ca>
> >said:
> >> I've no idea of the meaning of wtra.
> >'Wtra' means a narrow lane - most common in mid Wales.
> >So 'Tynyrwtre[a]' is house in the lane, and 'Penyrwtre[a]' is head/end of
> >the lane.
> >Bryn Ellis
>
>
>
Sorry to evryone should have been more specific
father
James James b 1800 :;angenny
Mother
Rachel formerly Lewis b Llangattock c1805
Children
William
John
Margaret
Anne
James
George
Joshua
Thomas
Lewis
Phillip
Anthony
All children born in Llanelly between c1830 and 1845
Addresses
1851 Tyn-Yr-Uchaf Llanelly
1861Upper farm Llanelly
1871 Upper Church Rd
1881 Rose Cottage Llanelly
In 1881 the children were spread betwen Brynmawr and Monmouth and were either farmers or grocers
many thanks
AV
Hello Andrew,
Do you have any names for this James family? There seem to have been quite
a few families with this surname in the Llanelly, Breconshire area.
Rina
----- Original Message -----
From: "Andrew Vollans" <a.vollans(a)ntlworld.com>
To: <POWYS-L(a)rootsweb.com>
Sent: Friday, November 25, 2005 11:20 PM
Subject: [POWYS] james family Llanelly
> Hi everyone,
> looking for information on a james family. Llanelly/Maesgwartha 1850's
> onwards. They were either farmers or grocers. Quite a large family.
> Regards
> AV
>
>
"Anthony Francis" <Lynnant(a)shaw.ca>
said:
> I've no idea of the meaning of wtra.
'Wtra' means a narrow lane - most common in mid Wales.
So 'Tynyrwtre[a]' is house in the lane, and 'Penyrwtre[a]' is head/end of
the lane.
Bryn Ellis
Dear Listers,
This week's 'Retrospective Images of Wales' webpages, just uploaded onto my
website, feature the following subjects:
1. A quiet November day in the village of Gladestry in the county of
Radnorshire, near the English border (eight pictures). This feature was
first shown on my website in December 1998.
2. A selection of old farms in or near the Usk Valley in the county of
Breconshire (six pictures). This feature was first shown on my
website in May 1998.
As usual, these webpages will be on display until next Saturday.
'Retrospective Images of Wales' is at
http://www.wfha.clara.net/walespic/retro/retro.htm
Kind regards,
John
----------------------------
John Ball, Ystalyfera, near Swansea, Wales, UK
E-mail: wfha(a)clara.co.uk
Homepage: http://www.wfha.clara.net/
Images of Wales: http://www.wfha.clara.net/walespic/
Welsh Family History Archive: http://www.wfha.clara.net/wales/
GENUKI Breconshire Maintainer: http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/BRE/
Joint Administrator for BRE, MGY, POWYS, & RAD mailing lists
--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.13.7/182 - Release Date: 24/11/2005
Hi everyone,
looking for information on a james family. Llanelly/Maesgwartha 1850's onwards. They were either farmers or grocers. Quite a large family.
Regards
AV
Subject: Variants of Wtra?
Hi Alison,
Further to my comment that the property at SN959916 called 'Wtra' in the
recent advert brought to our attention by Neil Evans, was called 'Ty uchaf'
on the 1891 OS map and which the latest OS map still uses; I forgot to
mention earlier that while looking for 'Cwmllymwynt' at SN925929, as
described by Dick Jones, I noticed a place called 'Tynyrwtre' located at
about SN917915 west of Llawr -y- glyn on the road towards Waen-y-gittin.
Also there is a place called 'Penyrwtre' at SN974924, located between two
places called 'Rhiwen', just over a mile north of Trefeglwys, north of the
area called Ffinant, and a couple of miles south-west of Clatter.
I've no idea of the meaning of wtra.
Cheers, Tony
It was originally the Cambrian Railway before the formation of the Great
Western Railway.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Elaine Wilson" <elainewilson(a)yahoo.com>
To: <POWYS-L(a)rootsweb.com>
Sent: Friday, November 25, 2005 8:47 PM
Subject: [POWYS] Aberdyfi railway?
> Hi, would someone please tell me the railway line that runs
> through Aberdyfi?
> Thanks, Elaine Wilson,B.C., Canada
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________
> Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005
> http://mail.yahoo.com
>
>
Hi Alison,
Thank you for your quick response.
I was just in the middle of asking you if you knew CastellyGwynt's exact
location -at the fork in the road, or east or west, and if there had been a
castle nearby, when I got Dick's info on Cwmllymwynt.
This got me into the maps and I've just seen 'Pleasant View' on old-map's
1891 edition, where 'Castell-y-Gwynt' is today.
The house(s) just east of it are the two Pen-y-bancs, upper & lower, with
another tiny name between them.
Just north of these two is the house accessed through 'Cefn-barrach' & the
'no through road', for sale under the name of 'Wtra'. This was simply
called 'Ty uchaf' in 1891, just south of a stream and waterfall. West of
the waterfall was 'Ty isaf', lying just east of the lane heading north from
'Pleasant View'.
West of the lane here is 'Creigiau' and further north is 'Hugh's Cot',
called 'Hughescote' on the modern OS map.
A little further north of 'Hugh's Cot', the 1891 map shows a Methodist
chapel with a burial ground, surrounded by half a dozen small-holdings,
'Ben-dy', 'Berth-lâs', 'Pant-y-badach', 'Pant-lle', 'Bryn-Hyfryd',
'Min-ffordd', just south of Long Hill on the modern map.
The chapel graveyard is of great interest. I presume it's the one that
COFLEIN describes as:
Berth-Las Chapel (Calvinistic Methodist); Broad Class of Site: Religious,
Ritual and Funerary; Type of Site: CHAPEL; Grid reference: SN95389206;
Community: Trefeglwys (between Long Hill and Waen)
I wonder if this might be the chapel where Sam Ashton's folks attended if
they were not 'Church of England'.
Cheers, Tony
--------------------------------------------
>Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2005 09:19:22 +0000
>From: Alison Bryan <alison.bryan(a)gmail.com>
>Subject: Re: [POWYS] Trefeglwys, Locating Old Residences in 'the Waun'
>X-Mailing-List: <POWYS-L(a)rootsweb.com> archive/latest/16679
>Hi Tony
>I stumbled on the Castell y Gwynt site a couple of weeks ago, and even
>mailed the present owners. Website here:
>http://www.castellb.f9.co.uk/
>This used to be known as Pleasant View (at least around 1906), my
>WILLIAMS family used to live there. My grandfather was born there,
>family bible documenting this:
>http://www.alisonbryan.com/tree/showphoto.php?photoID=7&showdocs=1
>This photo was taken there:
>http://www.alisonbryan.com/tree/showphoto.php?photoID=2
>I know there are other photos in existence in the family, but I need
>to get my paws on them.
>Unsure if the property was known by something else before this.
>Sorry to be the bearer of bad news.
>Alison