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Hi List,
Very many thanks to Dick Jones, Ian Moseley, Ken, and Barbara Griffiths,
who replied to me both on and off the list. I have plenty of information
to sort through now! I hadn't realised how many places there were with
this name [Dick sent 16 more "The Lodge"s which are within 20 miles of
Glasbury! ;<( ].
I had previously found a John Williams, who I think is Mary Williams'
illegitimate son, bringing up a family in the village of Aberllynfi at the
time of the 1881 census, so it's suggestive that Barbara found a candidate
for "The Lodge" in the same village. In 1851 John (aged 12) was living in
Velindre with his mother and new step-father, but could well have returned
to Aberllynfi later in life. I think my best bet may be to trawl through
the 1841 BRE census, checking the various Lodges for the presence of a
Mary Williams (30) and her (possible) son John (2), starting in Aberllynfi.
A pity the census isn't out on CD yet.
STOP PRESS
I have just seen John Ball's message in the latest Digest. Thanks, John. I
was just about to go to the old_maps website for a look around (being an
insomniac!). It sounds as though the school website would be worth keeping
an eye on too
Again many thanks to all who have helped me.
Regards, John Evans
I am new to the list and my interests are:
Evan Williams & Family - Devynog 1818 +
Beynon - Devynog & Llywel 18/19 c
James - Ystradgynlais 18/19 c
Price - Ystradgynlais 18/19 c#
Mike
Hello list.
Does anyone know where Cwmwhefri is I can;t find it on the 1881 cenus. I assume it is a farm, but of course it could be an area. I think it it within Llanafan parish or around there. I realise it is not much to go on but ............! I am looking to see who the occupants were in 1871.
TIA
Lesley
Mike do you have a David & Sarah Price in your line?
Greta in IL. USA
----- Original Message -----
From: "mike john" <mdjohn(a)ntlworld.com>
To: <POWYS-L(a)rootsweb.com>
Sent: Saturday, February 28, 2004 7:22 PM
Subject: [POWYS] Family Interests
> I am new to the list and my interests are:
>
> Evan Williams & Family - Devynog 1818 +
> Beynon - Devynog & Llywel 18/19 c
> James - Ystradgynlais 18/19 c
> Price - Ystradgynlais 18/19 c#
>
> Mike
>
>
Hi, Beryl,
I had a peek for a Clifford Golding in 1920 just to see if he remained in
America, and I couldnt' find one in the whole of the US! That's very
strange. However, a soundex does pop up a few with "Golden" and "Goulding."
Have you tried looking for any of them under one of these misspellings? Only
one Clifford Golden was close to the age of yours, born 1895, but he lived
in Massachusetts and was born in Canada. I didn't even try for Bessie as
women get married and change their names (just to irritate us family
historians!)
Sorry this is so pathetic. And you didn't bore me with your details. I
recall your kindness from the Glamorgan list, I know it's you from your
lovely name, when we had discussions on things like the Celts and the origin
of First Footing, etc.
Best wishes,
Elysia
----- Original Message -----
From: "Beryl Phillips" <bkcymru(a)gbis.com>
To: <POWYS-L(a)rootsweb.com>
Sent: Saturday, February 28, 2004 4:07 PM
Subject: [POWYS] Immigration Data
> Elysia
>
> Thanks so much for looking.
>
> Thomas Golding has led me a merry chase. Born in Wales, he emigrated to
America with children Thomas, Bessie and Amy......got the birth info. from
Wales. I got the 1889 date from a customs form when he came through Ellis
Island in 1904. It said he was 'coming home' and said how long he had
lived here. At that time it said he lived in Monongahala(not spelt
correctly).
>
> I had a subscription to Ancestry for the 1900 census and found Thomas and
his wife Emily Ada, together with children
> Thomas b 1882
> Amy b 1885
> Sarah Mary b 1894
> Houston Beshere b 1891
> Clifford b 1897
> No mention of Bessie although the census said Emily Ada had given birth to
7 children and 6 were living, so I don't know if Bessie died or another
child was born and then died.
> There was also another child, Mary Sarah born in 1902.
>
> However, all of the family did not stay in the US. They initially
returned to Wales - Amy was married there in 1909. Then the family, minus
Amy, moved to Canada but Clifford either stayed when the others moved back
or he came back to live in the US. - (am waiting for the 1911 England and
Wales for more info.) New York for a while and maybe Atlanta. I have
absolutely nothing on him. I have a lot of info on the family in Canada
except for Thomas Jr. but nothing on Bessie from anywhere and nothing on
Clifford in America
>
> To bore you even more, Emily Ada died in Canada and Thomas returned to
Wales, re-married and had another child.
>
> A thought, if you do find anything, birthplace will probably be down as
England not Wales.
>
> This story is confusing enough to me so please, don't spend too much of
your valuable time on it. I have my direct line, I am just interested in
what happened to the rest of the family.
>
> Many thanks
> Beryl
>
>
Hi Lesley,
Yes, it is near Llanafan, towards "Cross Roads PO" on the Newbridge road, it
has a different spelling now , like Cwm Chwefrew, after a valley stream of
that name. There were holiday chalets or Appts for sale there about 5 years ago,
if you need one??
Best wishes,
Dennis Cleaton
Rads, Powys
Thank you Elysia,
There are some other small pbk books by the late Alexanda Cordell re the S
Wales miners, etc, like "The Rape of the Fair Country" and others recently
reprinted in Wales. They are very good re Welsh speech patterns and their latent
feelings towards each other - yet he was a Scotsmam who married a Welsh lady in
WW2 and lived in Wales after the war. He is very like Richard Llewellyn in
"How Green was my Valley" on a wider scale really re South Wales history I think.
The books sell at about £7 or £8 each . I can find you more details if you
wish.
Best Wishes,
Dennis Cleaton
Powys, Wales
Sorry, Mike! Next time I'll take notes. 8o)
V.
On Feb 28, 2004, at 6:50 PM, mike john wrote:
> Venita
>
> When you were singing along to the Asda announcer, could you
> remember any bargains
>
> Mike
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Venita Roylance" <venitar(a)mac.com>
> To: <POWYS-L(a)rootsweb.com>
> Sent: Sunday, February 29, 2004 1:35 AM
> Subject: Re: [POWYS] How did my ancestors sound?
>
>
>> I am absolutely NOT an expert in this, but I would like to share an
>> observation. When I have visited the Swansea area and listened (read
>> that eavesdropped) to others whom I assumed were locals talking, I
>> heard a definite lyrical quality in the way they talked, whether using
>> Welsh or English. One particular example is a certain lady in the ASDA
>> store there. She would make announcements over the speaker system in a
>> way that almost sounded like singing to me. So much so that I began to
>> 'sing along' with her in my mind whenever I heard her voice. Sometimes
>> I would even quietly hum along... lovely, it was!
>>
>> Venita
>>
>> PS: As a side note, there has been a similar discussion on the Denmark
>> list - the consensus seems to be that native Danish sounds like
>> gargling with mashed potatoes! 8o)
>>
>> Homepage: Family History and Other Fascinations
>> http://homepage.mac.com/venitar/home.html
>>
>
>
Homepage: Family History and Other Fascinations
http://homepage.mac.com/venitar/home.html
Hi list
Anyone who has Lloyd ancestors from Radnorshire + some associated names could
enjoy browsing through www.lloydsofbaynham.com
I found some of mine and have a couple of leads to follow up now too
Good hunting
Angie
searching for Probert, Pritchard, Sheen, Like, Goodwin and Hamer in Radnorshire
and Herefordshire
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I am absolutely NOT an expert in this, but I would like to share an
observation. When I have visited the Swansea area and listened (read
that eavesdropped) to others whom I assumed were locals talking, I
heard a definite lyrical quality in the way they talked, whether using
Welsh or English. One particular example is a certain lady in the ASDA
store there. She would make announcements over the speaker system in a
way that almost sounded like singing to me. So much so that I began to
'sing along' with her in my mind whenever I heard her voice. Sometimes
I would even quietly hum along... lovely, it was!
Venita
PS: As a side note, there has been a similar discussion on the Denmark
list - the consensus seems to be that native Danish sounds like
gargling with mashed potatoes! 8o)
Homepage: Family History and Other Fascinations
http://homepage.mac.com/venitar/home.html
Hi Beryl,
Who are you looking for, and what area of the US are you looking for?
Elsie L Isaac
Bethlehem, PA USA
Proud to be working on the FreeCen Project!!!!
Let's get the UK Census online to view for Free!
http://freecen.rootsweb.com/
From: "Beryl Phillips" <bkcymru(a)gbis.com>
Reply-To: POWYS-L(a)rootsweb.com
To: POWYS-L(a)rootsweb.com
Subject: [POWYS] Immigration Data
Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2004 06:43:42 -0800
3 things, if I may.
1. Thanks John for the railway information, have a few family members
worked on the railway, this helps me get some things into perspective.
2. Nancy, have you tried the Immigrant Ships Transcribers' Guild? If not,
it's an excellent, searchable site.
3. Would anyone out there have access to the 1890 US census? I am
assuming that all of my 5 family members left Wales for the US in 1889 but
only 4 show up on the 1900 US census. Can't find the other one left behind
in Wales.
As always, any help greatfully appreciated.
Beryl
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Hi everyone,
I expect some of you are puzzled by John Ball's reply to me as my e-mail to the list hasn't come through. It is however in the Powys Archives at
http://archiver.rootsweb.com/
I have included it below and hope this finds a way through the Rootsweb network. The original was sent on Thursday, February 26th at 4.55 pm
Regards,
Margaret Harvey
Hi Elysia, Michael et al,
I was born in Cwmbelan, a hamlet between Llanidloes and Llangurig and moved into Llanidloes at the age of one so my early experience was of hearing and speaking the local accent. I attended school in the town for a couple of years but at that time, late 1940s Welsh wasn't taught. We then moved to the neighbouring county of Shropshire for a few years and I have remained in England since then. I think I must have lost my Welsh accent very quickly as children don't like to appear to be different. I still remember the difficulty I had with the words "come here" pronouncing it "cum yer" and even to this day I have to make a conscious effort to pronounce "here" in the English way.
I often visit Llanidloes for the day and after a short time in the company of my aunts I find myself mimicking their speech patterns. It is not their accent that I am unconsciously attempting but more the way they phrase their sentences. In no way do I mean to be disrespectful to them but it is something I find difficult to stop until we are on our way back home.
I have just read "Radnor Old and New" by W. H. Howse and he includes a chapter on The Dialect of Radnorshire, It is only recently that I discovered Radnorshire people had a unique and wonderful dialect. Howse opens the chapter with the following:
"It has been said that the conversation of Welshmen could not faithfully be reproduced on paper without the aid of a musical score (A. G. Bradley). This of course, refers to the constant inflexion of their voices, which rise in tone as they complete a sentence, whether or not a question is being asked, The habit imparts a musical quality to their speech, which is lacking in that of the ordinary Englishman".
I know there is a difference between the accents of those in North Wales to those from South Wales but I find it difficult to analyse what it is. I also know that when I am in the Llanidloes area I can't relate the way of speaking to either the north or the south. I have some relatives by marriage who have Welsh as their first language and their way of speaking in English is different again.
I have looked on a few second-hand Welsh sites and can't find a copy of the book you recommended. Elysia, I feel sure you will want a copy so I will keep looking (Elysia and I are distant cousins and we discovered we were related through one of the Rootsweb lists).
I also love "How Green Was my Valley", I have only recently finished reading it, after my first read many years ago.
John Ball has included a link to a sound file demonstrating the pronunciation of some Welsh place names on his website which is at
http://home.clara.net/wfha/wales/regular.htm
We will have to ask him whether the words are pronounced by someone from South Wales or North Wales!!!
Regards,
Margaret Harvey
Elysia
Thanks so much for looking.
Thomas Golding has led me a merry chase. Born in Wales, he emigrated to America with children Thomas, Bessie and Amy......got the birth info. from Wales. I got the 1889 date from a customs form when he came through Ellis Island in 1904. It said he was 'coming home' and said how long he had lived here. At that time it said he lived in Monongahala(not spelt correctly).
I had a subscription to Ancestry for the 1900 census and found Thomas and his wife Emily Ada, together with children
Thomas b 1882
Amy b 1885
Sarah Mary b 1894
Houston Beshere b 1891
Clifford b 1897
No mention of Bessie although the census said Emily Ada had given birth to 7 children and 6 were living, so I don't know if Bessie died or another child was born and then died.
There was also another child, Mary Sarah born in 1902.
However, all of the family did not stay in the US. They initially returned to Wales - Amy was married there in 1909. Then the family, minus Amy, moved to Canada but Clifford either stayed when the others moved back or he came back to live in the US. - (am waiting for the 1911 England and Wales for more info.) New York for a while and maybe Atlanta. I have absolutely nothing on him. I have a lot of info on the family in Canada except for Thomas Jr. but nothing on Bessie from anywhere and nothing on Clifford in America
To bore you even more, Emily Ada died in Canada and Thomas returned to Wales, re-married and had another child.
A thought, if you do find anything, birthplace will probably be down as England not Wales.
This story is confusing enough to me so please, don't spend too much of your valuable time on it. I have my direct line, I am just interested in what happened to the rest of the family.
Many thanks
Beryl
Hi, Beryl,
Unfortunately, most of the 1890 census was destroyed in a fire in the
basement of the NARA building. Only fragments remain. There is a substitute
that ancestry.com offers, sort of a compilation of old phone books, etc.,
which only gives last names and possibly street name, that sort of thing.
Not exceedingly helpful, but worth peeking at. I don't recall if you need a
subscription to this or if it's free, but I"d be happy to look for you if
you'd like as i do have a subscritpiton with them.
Elysia
----- Original Message -----
From: "Beryl Phillips" <bkcymru(a)gbis.com>
To: <POWYS-L(a)rootsweb.com>
Sent: Saturday, February 28, 2004 9:43 AM
Subject: [POWYS] Immigration Data
> 3 things, if I may.
>
> 1. Thanks John for the railway information, have a few family members
worked on the railway, this helps me get some things into perspective.
>
> 2. Nancy, have you tried the Immigrant Ships Transcribers' Guild? If
not, it's an excellent, searchable site.
>
> 3. Would anyone out there have access to the 1890 US census? I am
assuming that all of my 5 family members left Wales for the US in 1889 but
only 4 show up on the 1900 US census. Can't find the other one left behind
in Wales.
>
> As always, any help greatfully appreciated.
>
> Beryl
>
>
Elysia and Elsie,
Well, what can I say when I get two replies, except thank you so much.
I am looking for the following family in PA, they were in West Pike Township, Washington County, on the 1900 census, with additional children but minus Bessie.
Thomas Golding
wife Emily Ada Golding
Children:
Thomas
Bessie
Amy
Many thanks,
Beryl
Dear Listers,
This week's 'Retrospective Images of Wales', just uploaded onto my
website, features:
1. The village and parish of Trelech Grange in the county of Monmouthshire.
This feature was first shown on 'Images of Wales' in May 1998 (seven
photos).
2. The story of the Moving Mountain which in 1965 destroyed part of the
village of Godre'r Graig in the county of Glamorgan.
This feature was first shown on 'Images of Wales' in February 1998 (nine
photos).
To view my Retrospective webpages, go to
http://home.clara.net/wfha/walespic/retro/retro.htm
Enjoy!!
Best wishes,
John
----------------------------------
John Ball, Ystalyfera, South Wales, UK
E-mail: wfha(a)clara.co.uk
Homepage: http://home.clara.net/wfha/
Welsh Family History Archive (WFHA): http://home.clara.net/wfha/wales/
---
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3 things, if I may.
1. Thanks John for the railway information, have a few family members worked on the railway, this helps me get some things into perspective.
2. Nancy, have you tried the Immigrant Ships Transcribers' Guild? If not, it's an excellent, searchable site.
3. Would anyone out there have access to the 1890 US census? I am assuming that all of my 5 family members left Wales for the US in 1889 but only 4 show up on the 1900 US census. Can't find the other one left behind in Wales.
As always, any help greatfully appreciated.
Beryl