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Am searching for info on my great great grandfather Pryce Jones born in
1842. He married in Hull, Yorks.
He is listed in both the 1881 and 1901 census' as born in Newton,
Montgomery, Wales.
I am unable to locate a Newton and wonder if it should be Newtown unless
anyone knows where Newton is.
Can anyone help??
Tony is right, I'm sure Myttons, Prices, Davies also Willis's can have a great deal of pleasure from the A2A site.
After accessing A2A and clicking on "search catalogues" type in "Marrington Hall" and 4 catalogues are listed. If, like me, you are descended from any of them they are wonderful -actually that should be WONDERFUL!
On the right hand side it has a number of 'hits' -click on this and up will come several files. Go to the top and click on "Show Whole Catalogue" and there you are. These families are connected through marriage and in each catalogue there are references to them all.
Incidentally Tony, the lumber appears to have been from their own estates which were quite extensive.
Sorry I've been so slow in replying - my husband is very ill and I'm not able to spend much time at the computer.
Best wishes,
Bev
Re: [POWYS] Mytton, Price and Davies of Shropshire and Montgomeryshire
Subject: Re: [POWYS] Mytton, Price and Davies of Shropshire and Montgomeryshire
Hi Bev,
Thank you for this contact. I've a feeling that DAVIES' everywhere will be
interested to type Marrington Hall into the search field at 'Access 2
Access' Database at <www.a2a.pro.gov.uk>. After a quick look, it seems
that these Davies' were into lumber-trading or was it timber? Presumably
they were harvesting from the Welsh hills to sell to builders in the cities?
______________________________
Hi Michele,
You need NEWTOWN in Montgomeryshire. There was a famous Pryce Jones
Department Store founded there in the late 1800's, selling woollen goods by mail order.
There is a Powys CC website re some of the local history, etc. Try
"http://powys.org.uk/history/ " , and also various books about that area.
Best wishes,
Dennis Cleaton, with MGY links.
Hello List,
During the 6 months I have been lurking on your forum I have learned a lot.
Thanks everyone!
Back in the 1980's I pursued my ancestor William Evans (b. 1848 at
Velindre, Glasbury), his siblings and his parents (from Clifford, HEF)
through the 1851 census at Powys Library in Llandrindod Wells, the 1841
census at Brecon Library, and the 1841 census at Hereford Record Office.
There were no indexes, the census films were difficult to read, some of the
film readers 'had seen better days', and it was tricky chasing leads
backwards & forwards across the Radnorshire / Breconshire / Herefordshire
borders. I wasn't satisfied that I had the right Evans family at the end
of it, and I haven't followed up this line since.
I would like to think that things may be better now with censuses
transcriptions available on CD. But are resources any more centralised, or
is it still necessary to chase around? I ask because I spotted a message
from Barrie Jones of Gwent a few days ago which referred to "Sheila
Leitch's Family Resource Centre in Glasbury". Could anyone tell me more
about this centre:- what resources it has / when it's open / address / URL
/ phone number / who can use it, etc? If things have really improved, it
may be time to start hunting Evanses again!
Regards, John H. Evans
Subject: [POWYS] A2A and National Library of Wales searches
Hi Marianne,
Thank you again for your A2A help. Your 'wildcat' searches are going to
lead me on a 'wildgoose' chase.
I had just found the section on 'Special Interests: Database Help' as your
message arrived.
There are about four pages of tiny 10 point text with tips for searching
in special ways. I decided that it's going to take a lot of reading so I
saved it - but what a clean-up problem! At last I've whittled it down to
about 15Kb of plain-text.
But there's interesting stuff at 'Access to Archives' at
<http://www.a2a.pro.gov.uk/ > for list members even without the fancy
search techniques. For example, try putting 'Trefeglwys' into the main
search field and just see how many historic family names come up from the
1500s - like Clayton & Jerman. I got a good chuckle from the myriad of
strange spellings of different names and I'm not sure that all of the
modern translations (in brackets) are correct.
I would still like to know if someone has a list of historic Estate names
with their locations, so that one could focus on discovering references in
the Estate records for the locality where one's own ancestors lived.
For possible FRANCIS records, what were the names of Estates around
Llanrhaeadr ym Mochnant, Denbighshire, or Llandrillo and Llangar,
Merionethshire?
Your mentioning the NLW Marriage Bond Records reminds me that I never was
able to download the lists of men or women's St.Asaph Marriage Bonds for
the years 1701-1750. I got all of the others but not these for some unknown
reason.
Cheers, Tony
-----------------------------------------------------------------
>Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 05:08:34 -0700 (PDT)
>From: Marianne Daggett <marianne_daggett(a)yahoo.com>
>Subject: [POWYS] A2A and National Library of Wales searches
>X-Mailing-List: <POWYS-L(a)rootsweb.com> archive/latest/10945
>HI Tony,
>Sorry for all the buzzwords!! It you go to the A2A database, scroll to
>the bottom of the page and on the right you will see "database help". They
>give suggestions on how to search more "creatively". EG, say you want to
>find Francis and Davies in a document. You could try Fran*s near35
>Dav*s... what you will get with that are documents that have Francis and
>Davies, with some alternative spellings for their names, within 35 words
>of each other. Get it? :-)
>
>Also, in case anyone else was having trouble getting any actual records
>searching the NLW site-- here is a link to the search page:
>http://www.llgc.org.uk:81/
>There is a marriage bond database there with records for Brecon, Bangor,
>Llandaf, and Llanelwy / St Asaph districts.
>Regards,
>Marianne
A HUGE thank you to Angie, Nancy and Barbara for your patient help with this
one. Thanks to you, the puzzle really was solved and the family tree now
has its missing generation (and all the books were wrong!).
David Matthews
Hi David
To help with this brickwall I seem to remember that several years ago the
Radnorshire Society published a paper on the Law Suits of John Probert of
Cabalfa.
It should show up in an index of their work and may mention more names for
you that will help.
Good Luck
Angie
_________________________________________________________________
On the move? Get Hotmail on your mobile phone http://www.msn.co.uk/msnmobile
I don't know whether this will be any help, David, but Robinson's Mansions &
Manors of Herefordshire (p307) states that Charlotte Howarth who m. Henry
Allen was a grand-dau of John Greenly by his third wife, Dorothy (Rogers),
relict of Thos. Hopwood.
John GREENLY's first wife was Phoebe HYDE, but Robinson doesn't name the
second wife.
There is a tree for the HOWARTHs of Burghope and the Whitehouse on page 326
but, unfortunately, it only goes up to about 1723 and it does not include
the children of Edward HOWORTH, brother of Thomas of the Whitehouse, (just
says "m. and had issue" !)
Jones "History of Breconshire, vol 3, page 294 lists the High Sheriffs of
Breconshire including "1825 Henry ALLEN, of Oakfield, eldest son of Henry
ALLEN, by Charlotte, youngest daughter of Rev. Henry HOWARTH of Gladestry
and Maesllwch, in the county of Radnor"
The Alumni Oxonienses lists three HOWORTHs:-
Bartholomew, s. Herbert of Burghill, co. Hereford, gent. Balliol Coll.
matric 28 March 1724, aged 17
Edward, s. Henry of Llowes, co Radnor, gent. Balliol Coll, matric 6 July
1739, aged 16
Henry (Probart), s. Henry, of Clyro, co. Radnor, arm. Jesus Coll. matric 20
May 1735, aged 19: B.A. 20 Feb 1738-9
But from the marriage bonds at the NLW, Henry Probert HOWORTH did not marry
a GREENLY:
HOWORTH, Henry Probert, clerk, Llowes, RAD. 1744, Oct 4. At Ll. Anna Maria
Davies. B. 74/66.
And Anna's entry:
DAVIES, Anna Maria, sp., Presteign, RAD. 1744, October 4. At Ll. Henry
Probert Howorth. B. 74/66.
The IGI has this marriage as 4 Oct 1754 Llowes, Radnor, Wales, but it is
from a personal submission. Certainly the date needs checking
Charlotte seems to have been born around 1759 since she died 27 Oct 1844,
aged 85 (Henry died 9 Feb 1847, aged 92) (p 89 Jones).
Perhaps the Powys Record Office would have further information on the
HOWORTH family, since Maesllwch is on the digital history site at
http://multiweb.ruralwales.net/~history/history.powys.org.uk/history/hay/....
(I'm not researching the families BTW - I've just come across the HOWARTHs
as I've been researching the various PARRY families in the area)
Both Jones' "History of Breconshire" and the Alumni Oxonienses are available
from Archive cd Books (http://www.archivecdbooks.org/). Robinson's book was
available through the Herefordshire FHS, but it has also been filmed by the
LDS.
Hope something fits somehow!
Regards
Barbara Griffiths
Coventry UK
Detectives required.
Sending this to POWYS and HEF as my conundrum spans the border. Thought I
had solved this one but alas not!
I am trying to locate the descendants of an Alice GREENLY (bap 1687, Titley,
HEF) who, according to Burke's H&G History of the Commoners married a Mr.
HOWARTH of Cabalva, RAD (no forename given). Actually the surname is
HOWORTH.
Burke's has the following children for the union:
Harry HOWORTH (died unmarried)
Humphrey HOWORTH (Col. and MP for Evesham - died without issue)
Lt. Col. SIR Edward HOWORTH (died without issue)
Maria HOWORTH (died unmarried)
Maria HOWORTH (died unmarried)
Charlotte HOWORTH (married Henry ALLEN of The Lodge, BRE in 1789)
Henry and Charlotte were the parents of Charles Williams ALLEN (b.1794) who,
in 1865, changed his name to GREENLY in order to inherit the GREENLY fortune
when the main line of the family died out.
I should of course have noticed that Charlotte got married 102 years after
her mother was born, but I didn't (a lesson in accepting sources at face
value!).
I realised my error however when I obtained the will of Sir Edward HOWORTH.
Written in 1825, it mentions his sisters Mary and Charlotte. Clearly, all
three of them would have to be about 110 years old. Something was wrong.
That C.W. ALLEN is descended from Alice GREENLY is beyond doubt. For the
time being, I must assume that the 6 children listed above are in fact the
GRANDCHILDEN of Alice GREENLY.
I therefore set out to establish the name of Alice's husband. I started by
obtaining the will of Edward HOWORTH of Cabalva (d.1708) brother of Thomas
HOWORTH of the White House (HEF). Edward married Elianor PROBERT, dau of
John PROBERT of Upper Cabalva.
They had 5 children:
Henry HOWORTH (nothing known)
Probert HOWORTH (nothing known)
Sir Humphrey HOWORTH (died 1756. Inherited Maesllwch Castle, Clyro RAD by
his marriage to the daughter of Charles LLOYD, built a second house in the
grounds known as Maeslough House. Had one daughter who married Rev. Charles
DAVIES)
Edward HOWORTH (nothing known)
Susannah HOWORTH (married Rev. John WHITE)
Alice must therefore have married either Henry, Probert or Edward.
I then found the following baptisms on the IGI:
Mary HOWORTH, bap 18.08.1718 to Edward & Alice at Peterchurch, HEF, and;
Edward Probert HOWORTH, bap 02.01.1719 to Edward & Alice at Letton, nr
Staunton on Wye, HEF.
The dates were perfect and there was that recurrence of the PROBERT name
again. Perfect.
BUT...
I then found a marriage:
Edward HOWORTH to Alicia PROBERT (!!!), 02.09.1717 at Winforton, HEF - just
in time to have produced the two children mentioned above! Back to square
one!
I have several other wills and quite a bit more data but they don't appear
to help and to include it here would only make matters more confusing.
So, if ANY of this overlaps at all with your own research, please get in
touch as this family is spread far too widely to chase parish records for
the answer.
Thank you.
David Matthews
Barrie
There is an Alfred Mytton on Free BMD - born Mar 1862 in Cleobury M - and
possibly married either Emily or Elizabeth JONES in Pontypridd in Dec 1890 -
could be the connection with Frank ?
The reason I am interested in MYTTON is I have a Caroline MYTTON - born 1839
in Lingen, Hereford - not that far from and a Sarah Ann MYTTON born in May
1866 in Kington, Hereford in my tree - do these mean anything to anyone else
?
Regards
Don
----- Original Message -----
From: "barrie" <bj(a)reverendvox.demon.co.uk>
To: <POWYS-L(a)rootsweb.com>
Sent: Monday, June 23, 2003 6:43 PM
Subject: [POWYS] Alfred Mytton, Common Prayer signature, man of mystery!
> All this talk of Mytton's. We have a 'Common Prayer' book in our house
> with the signature 'Alfred Mytton' written on the inside front cover, no
> other details.
>
> The book has been in my wife's family possession for a long time.
>
> Her Grancher, Frank Jones, was from Clunbury ( Clunton Coppice),
> Shropshire born 1869. Frank came to Tredegar in 1890's to work in the
> mines. His mother was a Brunt from Radnorshire, Montgomeryshire and
> later Lydbury North Shropshire. We have no idea where Alfred Mytton came
> from as yet.
>
> best regards
>
> Barrie Jones, Gwent
>
>
>
----- Original Message -----
From: "Simon Atkin" <satkin(a)dbgroup.co.uk>
To: <POWYS-L(a)rootsweb.com>
Sent: Monday, June 23, 2003 9:17 AM
Subject: [POWYS] Another Welsh Translation
> Many thanks to all of you who helped translate an MI from Welsh for me. I
> have another couple if anyone could help out.
>
> 1) Gwyn eu byd y meirw y rhai sydd yn marw yn yr Arglwydd.
> >Blessed are the dead those who die in the Lord
> 2)Tri o blant rhy'n yma yn aros
>>Three[of]children here remain[stay]
> Ni fiom farw yr un wythnos
>>We died in the same week
> Rhyn yma yn gorffwys mewn disglwyiad
>>Resting here in the expectation[assuming a 'typo' of DISGWYLIAD]
> Am fore.
>>of morning.
> William Williams. Llanfaes.
>
> 3)Einioes nid yw ond ennyd a di ddyn yw dyddiau ei bywyd.
>>Life is but a moment .....................are the days of their lives.
-not making any sense of 'a di ddyn' - have you copied it right ?
Cheers
John
>
> Thanks,
> Simon Atkin
>
> POWYS FHS 2215
>
>
All this talk of Mytton's. We have a 'Common Prayer' book in our house
with the signature 'Alfred Mytton' written on the inside front cover, no
other details.
The book has been in my wife's family possession for a long time.
Her Grancher, Frank Jones, was from Clunbury ( Clunton Coppice),
Shropshire born 1869. Frank came to Tredegar in 1890's to work in the
mines. His mother was a Brunt from Radnorshire, Montgomeryshire and
later Lydbury North Shropshire. We have no idea where Alfred Mytton came
from as yet.
best regards
Barrie Jones, Gwent
Subject: RE: [POWYS] Mytton, Price and Davies of Shropshire and Montgomeryshire
Hi Simon,
Thank you very much for this info correlating my Ordnance Survey map
coordinates with the 12 digit ones at the Old Maps website. Your figures
(316700,316700) worked very well, producing as you said 'Lower Peniarth'
which apparently is the name that was used in 1890 for both locations at
about SJ167167 on my 1963 map.
In 1890, the name Peniarth was used for the forest 'Peniarth Wood'.
The 1963 'Peniarth' further west at SJ145155 was called in 1890 'Upper
Peniarth' as can be seen at coordinates (314500,315500) at Old-Maps. There
was a 'Coed Peniarth' over there too.
All I've got to figure out now is how the 'SJ' on the Ordnance Survey map
became a '3' on the Old-Map. I presume it is something to do with the
(longitude,latitude) of the location, which is about 3°West and 53°North.
Dick Jones Leigh-on-Sea, Essex, gave a thorough explanation of it years ago.
I just need newer memory chips.
Cheers, Tony
---------------------------------------------------------------
>Subject: RE: [POWYS] Mytton, Price and Davies of Shropshire and
>Montgomeryshire
>Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 09:36:09 +0100
>From: Simon Atkin <satkin(a)dbgroup.co.uk>
>To: "'Anthony Francis'" <afrancis(a)mail.pacificcoast.net>
>Tony,
>Try co-ords 316700,316700 - this finds Lower Peniarth.
>You can also do a place search for Meifod (which is a bit to the south).
>Simon
Hi John,
Old Maps at <http://www.old-maps.co.uk/> worked well today, even with my
slow phone-line at 28Kb/s.
Buttons worked; clicking points on map worked; it was great!
Thank you.
Changing subject to 'spam':
I haven't seen any noticeable change in reception at my address, so I think
your spam-filters at WFHA are working well :-)
I must find time to modify my BTs notes before they crumble away to cyber-dust!
Cheers, Tony
------------------------------------------------------------------
>From: "John Ball" <wfha(a)clara.co.uk>
>Subject: Re: [POWYS] Re: 'Peniarth, Meifod, Montgomeryshire'
>Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 07:24:16 +0100
>X-Mailing-List: <POWYS-L(a)rootsweb.com> archive/latest/10932
>Tony Francis <afrancis(a)mail.pacificcoast.net> wrote:
>Old-Maps at <http://www.old-maps.co.uk/ > came in ok. Slowly mind, but
>that's my phone-line.
>However it's not as good as before because the 'arrow-buttons' for
>shifting views to north, south, east, west don't work. Clicking the
>arrow just made a graphic of that arrow. The command to shift view
>seemed to be lacking.
>=============
>
>Dear Tony,
>
>I noticed your comments (above) about the Old Maps website. I used the
>Old Maps website several times yesterday and never encountered any
>problems with the navigation arrows. All the functions were working
>fine.
>
>You can also shift views to the N, S, E, or W (or any other direction)
>by clicking just inside the relevant edge of the map, or by entering a
>modified grid reference.
>
>Kind regards,
>
>John
>----------------------------
>John Ball, Ystalyfera, South Wales, UK
>E-mail: wfha(a)clara.co.uk
>Homepage: http://home.clara.net/wfha/
>Welsh Family History Archive: http://home.clara.net/wfha/wales/
Hi Marianne.
Thank you too for the 'Access 2 Access' Database at <www.a2a.pro.gov.uk>
What did you mean by your "This site has great wildcat search capabilities,
and with some "out of the box" searching I would be surprised if you didn't
find"
I don't know about your wildcats :-) we've got a few spare Canada geese
over here, along with ducks - lame or otherwise.
I did try putting in FRANCIS into the search field but as you described,
all but one was a given name, the lone exception being Abraham Francis, the
lead miner from Halkyn. So he must have had an interest in the Tanat valley
mines. As you said, it does take a lot of time and I must go back to A2A.
It's ok about Peniarth, I know where it is but I'd like to see it on the
old 1890s map. John and Simon have just offered some alternatives to try
next.
Cheers, Tony
-----------------------------------------------------------------
>Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2003 10:42:37 -0700 (PDT)
>From: Marianne Daggett <marianne_daggett(a)yahoo.com>
>Subject: Re: [POWYS] Mytton, Price, and Davies of Shropshire and
>Montgomeryshire
>X-Mailing-List: <POWYS-L(a)rootsweb.com> archive/latest/10928
>Hi Tony,
>Here is the link to the website with all the records I sent you. This
>site has great wildcat search capabilities, and with some "out of the box"
>searching I would be surprised if you didn't find records for Francis and
>Davies... I started looking for the two of them but was running into too
>many GIVEN names of Francis rather than surnames. I wondered if some of
>it could have been patronymic (sp?), that is, eg, could Thomas Francis be
>son of someone with the given name Francis. I hope you have better luck,
>I wasn't able to spend enough time on it to get anywhere, really.
>
>http://www.a2a.pro.gov.uk
>
>I am looking forward to getting some help from the Montgomeryshire Gen.
>Soc. and you are right, they do have at least some Shropshire records
>there too. Once I confirm which specific Richards preceded my James
>Davies, and find out the wives names, I should be able to make some
>progress linking backwards to the Davies in the records... I HOPE.
>
>I will find out for you if Mont.Gen.Soc. was active in the Tannat valley.
>I am also very curious to find out more about this Chirbury connection., I
>have Prices and Parrys and Croffts in my Pickstock line (a Pickstock
>married James Davies son, Richard the doctor)who were from Chirbury in the
>early 1700s---to add to the confusion.
>
>Thank you very much for helping me understand the marriage bond. Now here
>is how I found the Peniarths near Meifod-- there was Peniarth and Lower
>Peniarth near each other. I hope you can get it to work. First I went to:
>http://www.multimap.com/home.html
>TYped in Meifod then zoomed in to the 3rd closest level and moved around
>with the arrows... I found Peniarth north and east--somewhere! Of course
>now that I try again I am having trouble too. It is on our detailed map
>of the area , which my Dad has in Wales now.
> I will keep you posted on any info I recive from the Mont Gen Soc!
>Cheers
>Marianne
Many thanks to all of you who helped translate an MI from Welsh for me. I
have another couple if anyone could help out.
1) Gwyn eu byd y meirw y rhai sydd yn marw yn yr Arglwydd.
2)Tri o blant rhy'n yma yn aros
Ni fiom farw yr un wythnos
Rhyn yma yn gorffwys mewn disglwyiad
Am fore.
William Williams. Llanfaes.
3)Einioes nid yw ond ennyd a di ddyn yw dyddiau ei bywyd.
Thanks,
Simon Atkin
POWYS FHS 2215
'Morning Tony
Must be a heap o' traffic at the `a2a' site or it's down for maintenance as
I can't even
access it. Constantly times out even when I try via Google's cache. I also
tried two
browsers: NS 7.02 and IE 5.5. Same results with each.
Your comment about all Davies folk being inerested, did pique my interest.
Regards
Ron
At 11:18 PM 6/22/03 -0700, Anthony Francis wrote:
>Hi Bev,
>Thank you for this contact. I've a feeling that DAVIES' everywhere will be
>interested to type Marrington Hall into the search field at 'Access 2
>Access' Database at <www.a2a.pro.gov.uk>. After a quick look, it seems
Subject: Re: [POWYS] Mytton, Price and Davies of Shropshire and Montgomeryshire
Hi Bev,
Thank you for this contact. I've a feeling that DAVIES' everywhere will be
interested to type Marrington Hall into the search field at 'Access 2
Access' Database at <www.a2a.pro.gov.uk>. After a quick look, it seems
that these Davies' were into lumber-trading or was it timber? Presumably
they were harvesting from the Welsh hills to sell to builders in the cities?
I didn't have much success with Peniarth, it kept on finding more of the
same at Marrington. -I have yet to discover how to use the 'A2A' database
properly.
Presumably there are many other estates stored likewise at A2A. How would
you find out the names and localities of these stored estates at 'A2A', so
as to zero in on likely family references?
Cheers, Tony
Hi Tony,
I want to tell you I did find the 2 Peniarths on the map with Lower Peniarth in between. Don't know what is what yet, but I found something interesting on the map...1 mile south of the westernmost Peniarth (in Montgomeryshire), is a place called Pen-y-foel, near Allt Fawr. Well the family of my Richard Davies' wife, Emma Pickstock lived at Pen-y-foel. Not too difficult for them to have met, if they only lived 1 mile apart!
MArianne
---------------------------------
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