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Mary Ann,
I don't want to get into this discussion - - which is why I am writing
privately, but I wanted to let you know that your points are very well
expressed. 'Kinda' my style - - which is probably why I appreciated them.
Just wanted to let you know.
Dave Koester
Barrington, Illinois
<dkoester(a)starnetinc.com>
<chadii(a)msn.com> (Back-up Only)
**************************************************
**Personal Genealogy Web Page**
<http://pwp.starnetinc.com/dkoester/>
**************************************************
** STEMEN Researchers Page
<http://pwp.starnetinc.com/dkoester/>
**************************************************
**Coordinator - Allen County, Ohio - OHGenWeb Project**
<http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/5702/>
**Coordinator - Hancock County, Ohio - OHGenWeb Project**
<http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Plains/6692/>
***************************************************
Researching Surnames:
**ROSS** STEMEN**DAVIDSON**ALEXANDER**HOUSEL**LAMAN
**LEMAN**LEHMAN**WATERS**HARTER**BLOSSER**ENSMINGER
**GOCHENOUR**HERR**KAUFFMAN**KENDIG**KOESTER
***********************************************************
-----Original Message-----
From: MHet703234(a)aol.com <MHet703234(a)aol.com>
To: OHGEN-L(a)rootsweb.com <OHGEN-L(a)rootsweb.com>
Date: Monday, October 26, 1998 6:33 AM
Subject: Re: [OHGEN-L] COPY RIGHTED MATERIAL
>Good Morning Judy,
> Well I guess I will say my two cents worth about the Copy right thing.
And
>I will let all of you who would like to look up my reference do so at the
>following URL:
> http://lcweb.loc.gov/copyright/title17/1-170.html
> This is the US Governments Copyright on line. this is the fair use
section.
>And it says that you may use the copyrighted material for non profit and
>educational porpoise. Witch means If you don't use it for anything except
>education and nonprofit (i.e., the Archives). this is not infringement!
<snipped for brevity>
>Especially if they mention you as the copyright holder!
Point well taken but, when the owner of the copyright is NOT mentioned
and/or given credit and/or permission is not obtained therein lies the
problem. Yes, genealogical societies do donate copies of their
publications to be used in libraries and archives (including the Library of
Congress). However, it is their choice to donate the publications and
therefore it should be their choice to donate to the Genweb archives. Not
a volunteers!
I did not mean to stir up such a hornets nest with my original post but
let's face it, free is good but when the societies begin losing money and
can't afford to publish any longer then where will people get their
information?
My suggestion for the archives would be that when a volunteer submits
information they should receive an e-mail response (could be automated)
asking how they obtained the material. Members of the genealogical
community need to work together for the good of the cause but consideration
needs to be given to each and every individual and society!
Karen S. Smith
Fairfield County
Hi All,
Maggie is really getting blasted for having copyrighted material on the
Archives. Some of which, BTW, was put there long before she took over.
Soooooo!
Some of what people are complaining about is single name lookups taken
from publications, indexes. As far as we can tell, there is not any large
amount of material being taken verbatum from a book and uploaded to the
Archives. When there are lookups done and credits are given, that should
add to the sales of these books. Indexes are not copyrightable.
CopyRight concerns are about to shut down the Archives and I would hate
to see that happen, but it is not worth the hassle. In the past I am aware
that once it was in the Archives, it stayed there. Nothing was done about
removing anything, right or wrong. Maggie is removing material from the
Archives at lightening speed. At this rate there will be little to nothing
left for YOU the researcher to look at.
Where do YOU fit in? What should be put on the Archives and what should
not? Where does any of the information come from that people submit?
Usually from books that they have in their homes.
How do YOU want the Archives to be run??? What do YOU want to see
there??? Who do YOU feel should be allowed to submit material??? Should
only the CC (after checking with the county gen club etc) be allowed to
submit??? Who do YOU feel should bear the responsibility of checking if
something is OK to upload???
Send your ideas and thoughts to the list so we can all share in this.
These are YOUR Archives and we need YOU to give your suggestions and
opinions. Don't be a wall flower on this one. There are many that feel
their opinion does not count, or that they can't be bothered.
This is important to us all. Please give us all the imput you can.
Judy Kelble
http://www.rootsweb.com/~ohgenweb (OHGenWeb)
http://www.rootsweb.com/~ohhuron (Huron County, OH genealogy)
http://www.accnorwalk.com/~jkelble/kelble/chapin/chapin.htm (GEDCOM)
State Coordinator for OHGenWeb
County Coordinator for Huron County, OH
Listowner for Huron County, OH discussion group
Listowner for Lorain County, OH discussion group
e-mail: jkelble(a)accnorwalk.com
Karen,
I didn't mean to sound like I was pointing a finger just at the Societies,
and I do support your selling of the books to keep you going.
Yes, we should check out all sources. And request volunteers to get
permission form the Genealogical or Historical Societies for usage of the
material. This is the decent thing to do.
But Maggie was just relying on the integrity of the submitters. To bad that
our Society is loosing that!
I for one always try to contact the person who owns the copyright of a
material before I proceed with anything. I have did so with The Hudson
Genealogical Study Group, a local chapter of the OHGS.
We all should try to practice more honesty and integrity with our
submissions. I just feel that to tear up the Archives over this is like
tearing down a library because someone gave a paper to be displayed without
the permission of the copyright holder.
This is just an opinion. I still feel we need to support each other. the
OHGenWeb and the Genealogical Societies. Without each others support our hobby
will quickly fall to the for profit organizations who don't care about
anything but MONEY!
Then there will be a legitimate concern about copyright infringement. Then
you will have your case against someone. Let's work together on this and build
this together.
We need to build contact and communication between the OHGenWeb and the
Genealogical and Historical Societies. Not tear it down over issues
thanks
Mary Ann Hetrick
Good Morning Judy,
Well I guess I will say my two cents worth about the Copy right thing. And
I will let all of you who would like to look up my reference do so at the
following URL:
http://lcweb.loc.gov/copyright/title17/1-170.html
This is the US Governments Copyright on line. this is the fair use section.
And it says that you may use the copyrighted material for non profit and
educational porpoise. Witch means If you don't use it for anything except
education and nonprofit (i.e., the Archives). this is not infringement!
So all of you who are yelling about the Archives just take time to read this
section of the US Copyright law! Before you destroy our Archives over petty
Copyright squabbles stop and think,( "Who is this benefiting?" and "Why do I
feel this is an infringement?").
I know that several Genealogical Societies are trying to make money for
their group and they feel this will hurt their sales.
Well, Think about this don't you like to donate to libraries? This provides
the same type of availability to the public as our Archives! You don't go and
scream if someone looks up the book in the library because they can't afford
to purchase the book from you. So why do you scream when this is the same
thing?
Please stop and really think! Owner ship of a copywriter material means that
if someone is making a profit from your work (which most of the Genealogical
and Historical Societies only picked up the expired copyrights form old public
domain books and added indexes). are the archives making a profit? NO!
I think you have a right to try to help your organizations and sell the
books! This is what keeps you going. But the Archives are really like another
library, they advertise for you. Especially if they mention you as the
copyright holder!
Please don't distort our Archives! Help to make research available
<A HREF="http://lcweb.loc.gov/copyright/title17/1-107.html">U.S. Copyright Law
-- Chapter 1</A> to all!
Thank you
Mary Ann Hetrick
OHGenWeb project County Coordinator for Summit and Mahoning Counties.
List owner:
OHSUMMIT-L(a)rootsweb.com
OHMAHONI-L(a)rootsweb.com
Hi Judy,
I think the Archives is a great place to put those old wills, land
records, deeds, marriage and other things. These are things not
copywrited, and very useful. They are not on my web site.
Joy Hyde Athens Co. OHGenWeb
Judy Kelble wrote:
>
> Hi All,
> Maggie is really getting blasted for having copyrighted material on the
> Archives. Some of which, BTW, was put there long before she took over.
> Soooooo!
> Some of what people are complaining about is single name lookups taken
> from publications, indexes. As far as we can tell, there is not any large
> amount of material being taken verbatum from a book and uploaded to the
> Archives. When there are lookups done and credits are given, that should
> add to the sales of these books. Indexes are not copyrightable.
> CopyRight concerns are about to shut down the Archives and I would hate
> to see that happen, but it is not worth the hassle. In the past I am aware
> that once it was in the Archives, it stayed there. Nothing was done about
> removing anything, right or wrong. Maggie is removing material from the
> Archives at lightening speed. At this rate there will be little to nothing
> left for YOU the researcher to look at.
> Where do YOU fit in? What should be put on the Archives and what should
> not? Where does any of the information come from that people submit?
> Usually from books that they have in their homes.
> How do YOU want the Archives to be run??? What do YOU want to see
> there??? Who do YOU feel should be allowed to submit material??? Should
> only the CC (after checking with the county gen club etc) be allowed to
> submit??? Who do YOU feel should bear the responsibility of checking if
> something is OK to upload???
> Send your ideas and thoughts to the list so we can all share in this.
>
> These are YOUR Archives and we need YOU to give your suggestions and
> opinions. Don't be a wall flower on this one. There are many that feel
> their opinion does not count, or that they can't be bothered.
> This is important to us all. Please give us all the imput you can.
>
>
> Judy Kelble
>
> http://www.rootsweb.com/~ohgenweb (OHGenWeb)
> http://www.rootsweb.com/~ohhuron (Huron County, OH genealogy)
> http://www.accnorwalk.com/~jkelble/kelble/chapin/chapin.htm (GEDCOM)
>
> State Coordinator for OHGenWeb
> County Coordinator for Huron County, OH
> Listowner for Huron County, OH discussion group
> Listowner for Lorain County, OH discussion group
>
> e-mail: jkelble(a)accnorwalk.com
>
> ==== OHGEN Mailing List ====
> This list is for the discussion of topics related to the OHGenWeb project.
> It's primary audience is the county coordinators, state coordinator and
> other volunteers for the project.
>
> Please see http://www.rootsweb.com/~maillist/us/index.html for
> information about various mailing lists for the posting and sharing of
> Ohio genealogy.
--
ÐÏࡱá
>>It works for me and I already have it on all my pages. What about
the one at http://www.rootsweb.com/~ohgenweb/archive.htm , it doesn't
seem to have been updated. Still has the "Rainbow" background.
I have links to it also. Are we keeping it?<<
Norm,
I did not even know it existed. I will check it out and see what it
is/looks like.
Maggie
!^NavFont02F01190007NGCEHHb7BA1
Judy Kelble wrote:
>
> Hmmm, not sure why. I went to the Archives and blocked and pasted the URL
> here. I tried the same thing to double check and I still come up with
> http://www.rootsweb.com/~usgenweb/oh/ohfiles.htm
It works for me and I already have it on all my pages. What about
the one at http://www.rootsweb.com/~ohgenweb/archive.htm , it doesn't
seem to have been updated. Still has the "Rainbow" background.
I have links to it also. Are we keeping it?
Norm
--
Norm Smith
OHGenWeb County Coordinator for:
Wyandot, Morgan, Union, and Defiance Counties,
Defiance: http://www.rootsweb.com/~ohdefian/index.htm
Morgan: http://www.rootsweb.com/~ohmorgan/index.htm
Union: http://www.rootsweb.com/~ohunion/index.htm
Wyandot: http://www.rootsweb.com/~ohwyando/index.htm
E-mail: mailto:NormanSmith@worldnet.att.net
Alt. E-mail mailto:normsmith@iname.com or mailto:nsmith@gemair.com
> Maggie, do you see any problems with this. It is as is at the Archive site.
>
> At 08:48 AM 10/25/98 EST, you wrote:
> >Think we got the wrong URL on this: It doesn't work.
> >
> >Willi Waltrip
> >Co Coordinator <A HREF="http://www.rootsweb.com/~ohclark/">Clark County
> >USGenWeb</A>
> >Co Coordinator <A HREF="http://www.rootsweb.com/~ohchampa/">Champaign County
> >USGenWeb</A>
> >Project Coordinator <A HREF="http://www.rootsweb.com/~ohdefunc/">OHIO Towns,
> >Townships & Defunct Locations</A>
> >owner DEATON Family WebSite
> ><A HREF="http://members.aol.com/goodoldgal/index.html">Deaton Family</A>
> >owner Clark-Champaign-L mailing list
> >
> >
> >==== OHGEN Mailing List ====
> >This list is for the discussion of topics related to the OHGenWeb project.
> >It's primary audience is the county coordinators, state coordinator and
> >other volunteers for the project.
> >
> >Please see http://www.rootsweb.com/~maillist/us/index.html for
> >information about various mailing lists for the posting and sharing of
> >Ohio genealogy.
> >
> >
>
> Peace, Judy
>
> ==== OHGEN Mailing List ====
> This list is for the discussion of topics related to the OHGenWeb project.
> It's primary audience is the county coordinators, state coordinator and
> other volunteers for the project.
>
> Please see http://www.rootsweb.com/~maillist/us/index.html for
> information about various mailing lists for the posting and sharing of
> Ohio genealogy.
Hi All,
Please forward this to your county mail list, so they know it is
available. A direct link from your county page might be a good idea, if you
don't already have one.
Well, it's finally done. Maggie Stewart-Zimmerman just told me that she
has waded (hip boot type) through the Ohio Archives and they are now all in
order. Please check them out and let her know if you see ANY remaining
problems in your counties. http://www.rootsweb.com/~usgenweb/oh/ohfiles.htm.
I want to thank Maggie for all her hard work on this. I know it had a
LOT of bad links in it. As she went, she tried to update the information
found there. Let's keep her busy by sending in even more items for
inclusion. :)
Peace, Judy
Judy,
As far as I know that is the correct url
at http://www.rootsweb.com/~usgenweb/oh/ohfiles.htm. I wonder if it was
just busy and that's why Willi could not get there.
Maggie
!^NavFont02F0095000ENGHHGnNG57HG96C2AE
The Fairfield County Chapter of The Ohio Genealogical Society has
personally thanked Maggie Stewart Zimmerman for her quick reply and action
to our problem. However, we would like to take the opportunity to thank
her publicly as well. She is doing a magnificent job and as always has
handled what could have been a problem eloquently.
A very big "Thank You" to Maggie!!!!!!
Karen S. Smith
Corresponding Secretary, Fairfield Co. Chapter OGS
At 08:51 AM 10/25/98 -0500, you wrote:
>Are you aware that the following are all copyrighted by The Fairfield County
>Chapter of The Ohio Genealogical Society and yet they have been presented
word
>for word to you by Judith Jasper?
Maggie Stewart-Zimmerman accepts what is sent to her for inclusion in the
Archives. If copyrighted material is sent to her with a note to that
effect, it would, of course, not be included. She has spent many, many
hours trying to update the OHGenWeb Archive page. There is no way that she
could know without much research whether material sent in is copyrighted or
not.
If you need to have something removed because of a possible copyright
problem, please send an appropriately civil post to Maggie, explaining the
situation. I can understand you being upset, but Maggie is not the one you
should be upset with. We do all we can, as volunteers, to comply with the
requests that come in.
Please do not come down on her for something she has no control over.
She has done a magnificant job getting the Archives back on track. I
appreciate all the hard work she has put into this project. The last person
who tried to keep the Archives going, faced a heated, uphill battle with
several people. It therefore, was left to wither on the vine.
If ANYONE sees something within the Archives that they know is
copyrighted, please simply let Maggie know. She is quite capable of
removing any material that does not belong there.
Peace, Judy
>Resent-Date: Sun, 25 Oct 1998 10:05:22 -0800 (PST)
>From: "Ms. Piglet" <pigolit(a)ix.netcom.com>
>Old-To: "SC list, USGW" <state-coord-l(a)rootsweb.com>
>Old-Cc: "USGW/ALL" <USGENWEB-ALL-L(a)rootsweb.com>
>Date: Sun, 25 Oct 1998 11:55:49 -0600
>X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
>X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1
>X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3
>Subject: [STATE-COORD-L] a suggestion....
>To: STATE-COORD-L(a)rootsweb.com
>Resent-From: STATE-COORD-L(a)rootsweb.com
>Reply-To: STATE-COORD-L(a)rootsweb.com
>X-Mailing-List: <STATE-COORD-L(a)rootsweb.com> archive/latest/2482
>X-Loop: STATE-COORD-L(a)rootsweb.com
>Resent-Sender: STATE-COORD-L-request(a)rootsweb.com
>
>Something you may or may not want to pass around...something to think about.
>
>This comes to mind because I've just dealt with another piece of mail about
>it, but when I was NC I waded thru a considerable chunk of it, and it could
>possibly be a solvable problem.
>
>Some email addresses are subject to an easy misreading: primarily those that
>have mixed alpha numeric content including zeroes or ones. (aol is prone to
>this, but we see it elsewhere, like Yvonne James-Henderson's hen1 (hen one)
>address that's not at aol). Tends to lead to complaints about "bad
>addresses" when the person's misread zeroes as o's, ones as L's, or vice
>versa.
>
>Folks with contact addresses on their pages that have such potential
>misreadings might want to consider a one line comment near their email
>address on the page saying something like (for a mythical address of, say,
>Ed112) "that's ed one one two, not ed ell ell two".
>
>Just a thought.
>
>
>
>piglet (megan zurawicz)
>pigolit(a)ix.netcom.com * cochonnet(a)aol.com
>genealogy--http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~piglet
>quilting--http://pw1.netcom.com/~pigolit/index.htm
>ICQ: 18429839
>
>
Peace, Judy
According to other expert sources, -this- article isn't quite true, either.
As long as markers are THOROUGHLY WASHED after using the the shaving cream
method, no harm comes to the stone. Acid rain is more damaging to stones!
You might enjoy reading:
http://www.usigs.org/signal/98-10-1.htm#stones
the article "Tombstone Inscriptions Revisted" in the USIGS Signal to get
what Paul Harvey would call 'the rest of the story' from the professionals
who deal with tombstones every day.
At 19:18 10/24/98 -0400, you wrote:
>I know that a lot of people use shaving cream and that aids to the
>distruction of the tombstone. You might want to send this on to your mail
>lists.
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
wally(a)calweb.com
Hmmm, not sure why. I went to the Archives and blocked and pasted the URL
here. I tried the same thing to double check and I still come up with
http://www.rootsweb.com/~usgenweb/oh/ohfiles.htm
Maggie, do you see any problems with this. It is as is at the Archive site.
At 08:48 AM 10/25/98 EST, you wrote:
>Think we got the wrong URL on this: It doesn't work.
>
>Willi Waltrip
>Co Coordinator <A HREF="http://www.rootsweb.com/~ohclark/">Clark County
>USGenWeb</A>
>Co Coordinator <A HREF="http://www.rootsweb.com/~ohchampa/">Champaign County
>USGenWeb</A>
>Project Coordinator <A HREF="http://www.rootsweb.com/~ohdefunc/">OHIO Towns,
>Townships & Defunct Locations</A>
>owner DEATON Family WebSite
><A HREF="http://members.aol.com/goodoldgal/index.html">Deaton Family</A>
>owner Clark-Champaign-L mailing list
>
>
>==== OHGEN Mailing List ====
>This list is for the discussion of topics related to the OHGenWeb project.
>It's primary audience is the county coordinators, state coordinator and
>other volunteers for the project.
>
>Please see http://www.rootsweb.com/~maillist/us/index.html for
>information about various mailing lists for the posting and sharing of
>Ohio genealogy.
>
>
Peace, Judy
Are you aware that the following are all copyrighted by The Fairfield County
Chapter of The Ohio Genealogical Society and yet they have been presented word
for word to you by Judith Jasper? Therefore, infringing upon the copyright by
The Fairfield County Chapter of The Ohio Genealogical Society.
<ftp://ftp.rootsweb.com/pub/usgenweb/oh/fairfield/cemetery/hartman.txt>ftp:
//ftp.rootsweb.com/pub/usgenweb/oh/fairfield/cemetery/hartman.txt
<ftp://ftp.rootsweb.com/pub/usgenweb/oh/fairfield/cemetery/pleasanta.txt>ft
p://ftp.rootsweb.com/pub/usgenweb/oh/fairfield/cemetery/pleasanta.txt
>Cemeteries of Pleasant Township, Fairfield County, Ohio (EXCEPT Floral Hills
Memory Gardens, Est. 1958 and Maple Grove Cemetery, Est. 1935)
>I will be glad to post any information on these cemeteries here, or send the
information by snail mail if it is too many pages for me to copy by hand.
Judith This particular publication is currently for sale by The Fairfield
County Chapter of The Ohio Genealogical Society and is copyrighted by The
Fairfield County Chapter of The Ohio Genealogical Society.
USGENWEB NOTICE: These electronic pages may NOT be reproduced in any format
for
profit or presentation by other organization or persons. Persons or
organizations desiring to use this material, must obtain the written
consent of
the contributor, or the legal representativeof the submitter, and contact the
listed USGenWeb archivist with proof of this consent. Shouldn't this same
consideration be given by USGENWEB to the organization or persons who own the
copyright to the material that has been presented by someone other than the
owner of the copyrighted material?