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Can anyone tell me whether Freemasonry records exist for the City
and/or County of Nottingham for the early 19th century? I suspect my
ancestor may have been a Freemason and that that Freemasonry records, if
they exist, might contain some useful information.
Jeffrey M. Johnstone <jeff(a)eznet.net>
Fax: (716) 242-2424
Voice: (716) 242-2400
WWW home pages:
Harris & Chesworth: http://home.eznet.net/~jeff/h&c.html
Clan Johnstone: http://home.eznet.net/~jeff/clan.html
Tim Arguile wrote:
> The Kibworth and District Chronicle has published an article by Ian R.
> Varey entitled "FWK is not a Dirty Word" giving useful background on
> framework knitting
> I also have a possible connection with a Luddite who was murdered 'in the act' !
In the latest issue of Local Historian (I think that's the right title),
there is a major article on Luddite riots in Notts against framework
knitting. Should be essential reading for all who are interested in this
Edward Hands, London SW19
Trying to trace a Henry Ellis Maltby 1855 possibly born Marylebone.
Also John Maltby possibly Lambeth (London) died 1859.
Trying to trace where John Maltby lived in London and who his wife and
The Kibworth and District Chronicle has published an article by Ian R.
Varey entitled "FWK is not a Dirty Word" giving useful background on
The Wigston Framework Knitters Museum islocated in an 18 century knitter's
home and workshop and contains a number of original hand frames.
From: Jan Bamford <jan.bamford(a)dial.pipex.com>
Subject: Re: Framework Knitter
Date: Sunday, May 31, 1998 05:11
I framework knitter is literally that - a person who knitted using a large
machine known as a Stocking Frame. They were large wooden frames consisting
a lots of mechanical parts and several hundred needles. They had a seat at
the front which the FWK (framework knitter) sat at and operated the
machinery using a combination of wrist and hand movements.
Many families in Nottingham were employed in the industry. The frames
themselves were quite expensive, so sometimes a family would rent one. The
father would operate the frame and the wife and children would wind the
thread and seam and mend the garments.
The machine made knitting a lot faster than the traditional method and this
caused riots in the early 1800s by people called Luddites who thought that
it was ruining the textile industry and creating poverty and slums.
My family have lived in Nottinghamshire for centuries and most of them were
FWKs. I also have a possible connection with a Luddite who was murdered 'in
the act' !
I have much more information if you need it, and I would reccomend a vist
to the Ruddington Framework Knitters Museum in Nottinghamshire where they
have working machines.
I appreciate your lack of interest, but frankly, I'm on the list, too, and
I have received only a very few posts on this subject in recent days. Are
we on the same list???
And unfortunately, the issues surrounding what information is available
dictate whether ANYONE can research at all....hence whether there is even
any need for this list or any other to even exist!
The list is for sharing information we've all gathered in our *research.*
When we have difficulty accessing information, then we simply can't research.
Please understand that when you post your questions to this list you are
asking that someone share with you the fruits of *someone's* research work.
They may be sharing the fruits of their own research works, or someone
else's who previously shared it with them. It really doesn't matter, the
fact it, *somebody* did the work.....i.e. *somebody* did the research! That
person was only *able* to perform the research to the extent the records
and other types of information were both *available* and *accessible.*
Most of us are aware of *many* types of records and sources of information
which would benefit us *all*......some of them either aren't available to
us OR we just can't access them! If we can't get to them, we can't
undertake the work of researching them for ourselves or anyone else...and
we sure can't share with you or anyone else the fruits of that work.
Even though you may not wish to be a part of that discussion or bothered by
it, please understand that if you are involved in compiling your family
history, it *does* affect you and you do stand to benefit from it, even if
you chose never to actually undertake any research yourself.
>I'm sorry, but this subject is getting way old. If you must continue
>this discussion, can't you people continue it in private? I'm sick of
>getting 15 thousand (I know that's exaggerated, but you get the point)
>emails and having to delete them because all they are about it copyright
>laws and freedom of information. Please stop!
>I don't mean to offend anyone here, but I just don't want to hear about
>I'd like to get back to genealogy, here...
I'm sorry, but this subject is getting way old. If you must continue
this discussion, can't you people continue it in private? I'm sick of
getting 15 thousand (I know that's exaggerated, but you get the point)
emails and having to delete them because all they are about it copyright
laws and freedom of information. Please stop!
I don't mean to offend anyone here, but I just don't want to hear about
I'd like to get back to genealogy, here...
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
I framework knitter is literally that - a person who knitted using a large machine known as a Stocking Frame. They were large wooden frames consisting a lots of mechanical parts and several hundred needles. They had a seat at the front which the FWK (framework knitter) sat at and operated the machinery using a combination of wrist and hand movements.
Many families in Nottingham were employed in the industry. The frames themselves were quite expensive, so sometimes a family would rent one. The father would operate the frame and the wife and children would wind the thread and seam and mend the garments.
The machine made knitting a lot faster than the traditional method and this caused riots in the early 1800s by people called Luddites who thought that it was ruining the textile industry and creating poverty and slums.
My family have lived in Nottinghamshire for centuries and most of them were FWKs. I also have a possible connection with a Luddite who was murdered 'in the act' !
I have much more information if you need it, and I would reccomend a vist to the Ruddington Framework Knitters Museum in Nottinghamshire where they have working machines.
I would appreciate any leads on the surname DUCKLESS, DUCKLES, or perhaps
DOUGLAS. Here is the information I have.
Robert and Sarah DUCKLES? had at least three sons--John, Joseph, and Thomas.
John was born in 1805 in England.
The three sons emigrated to Massachusetts, USA, in 1821.
I am stumped so far on tracing any other details, such as where in England,
what ship they came over on, when the other two sons were born, which
spelling of the surname is correct, even what happened to Joseph and Thomas!
Thank you for any time you may spend on helping me with some leads!
Vicki DUCKLESS Flanders
New Hampshire, USA
>I urge all those concerned to continue to lobby for more freedom to access
>records through the internet. I commend those who have actively pursued
>and urge them to continue, even if it is frustrating, thankless and causes
>personal difficulties. Your actions, or lack there of, will have significant
>impact on the future. If there is anything I can do to be of assistance,
I want to personally thank you for this message and reiterate my own
commitment to this effort. I have promised the list that I would gather all
the information I can regarding the current laws and any associated rules
etc., regarding internet access to records in Nottinghamshire.
Sometimes, I think we forget that access to records via the internet is a
relatively *new* issue, and in most cases was not addressed at the time
laws were written regarding public access to various records.
I continue to believe we can't address the issue properly without having
all the facts.
Until we have the facts, I don't see how any of us can formulate
intelligent opinions regarding any of this.
I appreciate there are some who may take offense at this....but to date I
am not comfortable that this list has the facts....although we certainly do
have the *opinions* of what a number of people believe the facts to be.
Sometimes, this differs from what the facts actually are.
Unless one provides reasonable subtantiation, then it's reasonable to
question if it's fact.
The only real contribution I feel I can make towards these issues is to
collect the facts that enable us all to understand the current situation as
I already have *some* of the necessary facts. I hesitate to post them until
I have more facts, because to do so would not present a full picture.
I promised to do this and I will. I only ask that I not be shot as the
The internet is a wonderful tool that will really blossom for the genealogists
of the future. What we choose to do now, will impact our children and the
generations yet to come. In fighting for the freedom to access information
electronically, we are providing the groundwork necessary to ensure the future
of genealogy as a global pursuit, readily available to all.
I came to genealogy in my mid forties at the request of my mother, who had been
actively researching our family history for about 30 years. As a teacher, she
wanted me to field test a kit created by OGS Kingston Branch, to help introduce
children to genealogy. With their support and encouragement, I have expanded the
learning opportunities for children. I have been running an after school program
for children for the past 3 years. We currently have 18 members and 3 parent
volunteers. We live in a small rural community, about an hour from the nearest
city and FHC. Having access to the internet has been a real bonus for my budding
genealogists, who are dedicated, enthusiastic and knowledgeable. The children
(ages 8-12) have asked me to create a community program. Next fall, we will
operate a program on Saturdays for all students, ages 8 - 18 and up, in our
area. I will also be helping the FHC, in the city, begin a program for students.
I have also been asked, by our regional Board of Education, to run a
professional development program on genealogy, for teachers, this summer. The
internet will play a large roll for all concerned. Having ready access to
information will make this learning opportunity more exciting and rewarding for
I would like to thank Rod Neep and John Mellors for being patient and supportive
of my personal genealogy research. Many others on the internet have also helped.
My mother has been shocked at how rapidly my research has progressed and, now in
her mid seventies, has just recently begun using the internet and a computer.
Having access to records is vital for those of us who are not mobile, live in
remote areas, or live busy, active lives and can only do research at odd hours.
It is also the vehicle of the future and therefore, that of our children. You
may not have a child or grandchild, niece or nephew who is doing genealogy now,
but you may have in the future.
I urge all those concerned to continue to lobby for more freedom to access
records through the internet. I commend those who have actively pursued this end
and urge them to continue, even if it is frustrating, thankless and causes
personal difficulties. Your actions, or lack there of, will have significant
impact on the future. If there is anything I can do to be of assistance, please
You can find information about Genealogy for Children
at my home page. Go to http://home.istar.ca/~ljbritt
I have recently found that my GGGrandfather's occupation was Frame Work
Knitter, or maybe Frame Woolen Knitter. Does anyone know what that was, was
it anything to do with the lace industry?
Uckfield, East Sussex
Sorry, yes. I do seem to have posted the wrong URL ;-) I used to have it on
both .htm AND .html, but I must have deleted the first file!
I have now uploaded it again, so you should be able to find the Notts
Look-up page at
Apologies for any confusion, and thanks to those who wrote to point it out
to me! (Good job I took time from packing my case to check my mail one last
My great-grandfather, Sam Housley, a master blacksmith of Basford,Notts, was
one of the first to build perambulators in the UK in the 1860's. And I, his
great-grandson, an aerospace engineer, helped to design the propellant tanks
for the lunar module in the 1960's. Yet when I first attempted to trace my
family tree in 1968, I only knew that my father(who died in 1948, after
emigrating to the USA in 1920) was born in Glasgow in 1892 to a blacksmith and
his wife and that Dad had "cousins in Nottingham". I grew up in a German
neighborhood in New York known as the "Scotch kid" and was called Fritz. When
I sent for my father's birth certificate in Edinburgh I found that my
grandparents were both born in England and found later that they had been born
and married in Basford. In 1983 I found the time to dig deeper and started
using an LDS Family History Center nearby and heard about the Nottingham FHS
and joined it. Using microfilms and the IGI at the LDS and research aids and
booklets from the Notts FHS I have been able to my HOUSLEY roots back to
Arnold in 1698 and BELLABY roots to Nuthall in 1650. And all this without the
Internet. It took time and much eyestrain but I found ancestors with fine
penmanship and many that used an "X", a few that were buried as paupers and a
number who were church wardens. I have found third and sixth cousins who were
searching too and enjoyed their kinship through air mail correspondence. It
took much time, but it was worth it. Several years ago I subscribed to America
Online and used their Genealogy Forum mainly for research on my mother's and
my wife's families here in the USA and Ireland. We are now in touch with
cousins from both families who we never heard of. The only angry reply to a
query I posted on AOL was from the son of a second cousin in my mother's
family. I had mentioned the names of his father, uncles, grandparents and some
detail about their lives and received an angry reply:" Who are you and what do
you want with my family?" We have since became good friends and correspond
I have given much detail and it is time to make my point : The history of a
family is very complex and may take decades to assemble all the facts and like
all history is subject to interpretation and revision. I started when I was 42
and all my grandparents were dead and I had lost contact with uncles and aunts
and cousins. Starting earlier is much better. The LDS is a splendid ally in
your search. Some of their good folks in their seventies are learning to use
computers and may even help you learn how to use theirs at the Family History
Centers. Joining the Nottinghamshire Family History Society is wise because of
the opportunity to use their resources and know-how. The chance that you may
find a fourth cousin who has done much research is a boon especiallly if he
lives in Notts. Patience is one attribute rare in the computer world, yet it
is required for a historian. There is no cause for angry words or actions.
Probably most of us in NOTTSGEN are cousins. My grandpa Jack Housley once said
that he was a twenty-first cousin to Queen Victoria. Maybe he was. Let us
treat each other as kinfolk should and proceed with the task before us with
Fred Housley, Leola , Pennsylvania, USA
It just occurred to me (bearing in mind the recent discussions) that I ought
to remind Nottsgen subscribers (and inform the newer ones) about the
availability of the Notts Look-up Exchange, which you can find at
For anyone who doesn't know, the Look-up exchange lists volunteers and the
documents they are prepared to search. In many cases, they are books or
fiche which people have bought to assist with their own research. Some
examples of the kind of documents offered are: Census indexes, Parish
Register Transcripts, Trade Directories, Monumental Inscriptions lists etc.
Pages are available for all English counties and there is coverage of
Scotland, Wales and Isle of Man as well, via the main index at
*Please Note* ONLY the documents listed on the page are available for
searching. I still receive many requests from people asking me to look in
documents I don't have. (Many think I must have access to the local archives
office) You have to assume that the documents listed are the only ones
available to the volunteers listed next to the entry.
The Look-up Exchange is a good example of how, by volunteers joining
together, we can assist other researchers like ourselves. Obviously, the
more people who volunteer to the scheme the more useful it will become. If
anyone has books or fiche at home, relating to Nottinghamshire, which they
would be prepared to search for specific entries then I would be very
pleased to add you to the list.
I am on holiday for the next week, (fingers crossed for reasonable weather)
but if anyone has any queries regarding the Look-up Exchange please send
them to me directly and I will reply when I return.
Co-ordinator for Notts, Shropshire and Yorkshire West Riding Look-up
THANK YOU FOR MAKING OUR BIRTHDAY PARTY A GREAT SUCCESS!
During the 48 hour celebration period 14-16th May, we received and responded to 558
queries via online web page and email. We also assisted many individuals on
IRC and ICQ. The queries covered a wide range of topics, relating to many different
countries and types of research problems.
The IIGS (International Internet Genealogical Society) gained 512 new members and
we would like to extend a warm welcome to every one who joined us.
Please spread the word about IIGS and let all your genealogical friends know where we
are. Membership of the society is free - just fill out the form on our web
See http://www.iigs.org/ for information.
Camilla Gemmingen von Massenbach
In article <5bf74025.356db918(a)aol.com>, Jmfth(a)aol.com writes
>I received today the marriage certificate for my great grand parents William
>DERRY and Ann TEBBUTT. They were married on 19th May 1873 in the Parish
>Church at Beeston, Nottingham. The writing is not very clear and William's
>address looks like S Saviours, Nottingham. Can anyone tell me if there is/was
>a road/area of this name and whereabouts it was. Does it still exist?
This looks as though it may be "St. Saviours" as in the parish name. It
is a parish within Nottingham.
> Also on the same certificate Ann's
>father's occupation is down as F.W.K. there appears to be a line just above
>the W. Can anyone enlighten me as to what this might be, please.
Vicars in Nottingham really did get fed up with writing this in full in
their registers ;-)
Rod Neep : Cinderford, Gloucestershire, England:
rod(a)neep.demon.co.uk : http://www.neep.demon.co.uk/fhist/
RESEARCHING: NEEP (ONS all periods & places) GOONS 2913
Notts: MILLS (1800), SARDISON (1720), DENMAN (1750), WRIGHT (1780),
JOHNSON (1700), SAVAGE (1900), DYKES (1900), CLAYTON (1850)
Oxon : HOWES (1880); Norfolk: HAW(E)S (1850); Essex: TAYLOR (1855)