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Derick,
If you have not gotten a response from the AB recently, it is probably
because they are working 24x7 to achieve what we all wish to achieve, the
preservation of the USGenWeb! Just in case you missed it, the national
pages have been moved to their own server already. While some of the links
may still work on Rootsweb, that does not mean that the national pages have
not been moved. The AB may have been a bit quiet but that does not mean
they are not all working as hard as humanly possible to keep our sites and
data secure.
Actually, I think we can all be proud that the majority of the USGenWeb
Project has joined together for the good of all concerned. It seems
there has been far less divisiveness over the move from Rootsweb than any
issue is recent history and in the end, I do believe we will all be better
and stronger for it.
Yes, there are a few who have still not decided to move but we have always
had the choice about where to host our sites. Some also simply feel that
they do not mind the banners and harvesting by Rootsweb and that is also
their choice. However, in the end, I think you will find very few states
remaining on Rootsweb. The mass majority of the membership has chosen to
move so that the work of all the volunteers can be protected from harvesting
by a commercial entity going forward. There is nothing any of use can do
about what Rootsweb may have already done but we can prevent having the
contributions of the volunteers appear in their commercial databases going
forward. Just from what I have observed, it seems both the AB and the
states are pulling together to make this move as transparent as possible for
researchers. Obviously it is not easy when you think of the millions of
pages that we are talking about and the millions of links that have to be
updated, etc. Just one example is the fact that until the search engines
catch up with the new sites, many wish to leave links on Rootsweb to their
new pages. Even Google is probably having difficulty keeping up with all
the SiteMaps they are receiving so that the new sites can be indexed
quickly.
My small part has been de minimus compared to what I know others have done
and are doing. I think you too will be proud when the dust settles.
Nola
----- Original Message -----
From: "Derick Hartshorn" <DerickH(a)charter.net>
To: <USGWP Board :>
Cc: <ncgenweb-discuss(a)rootsweb.com>
Sent: Wednesday, March 26, 2008 5:49 PM
Subject: [NCGENWEB-DISCUSS] RootsWeb and status of xxGenWeb entities
> Dear folks,
>
> Since receiving any response from BOARD-L seems to be an exercise in
> futility, I am addressing each member individually.
>
> As a proud member of the NCGenWeb Project, we have taken positive
> actions regarding the threat we are faced with.
> Messages from USGWP and BOARD-L seem to be dominated by whether or
> not to incorporate or to propose a motion or withdraw it.
> You folks seem to be bound up in a bureaucracy that seems to be
> unable to arrive at a consensus, let alone, advising and informing
> Project members.
> Meanwhile, 37 states have chosen to move their sites to independent
> servers without any seeming help or guidance from our national
> organization.
>
> I note that the Project page:
> http://www.usgenweb.org/projects/index.shtml continues to point to RW
> server pages that house an enormous amount of our data.
> I have yet to hear from national how this issue will be addressed.
> Most of these Projects are rooted in the county level.
> I have personally taken it on my own to "adopt" these county Projects
> to my newly-housed pages, in effect, duplicating the Project pages.
> There is no doubt that our benevolent sponsors have taken actions to
> retain these rich resources for some later use, commercial or whatever.
>
> There is a pressing need to act with haste to protect our resources
> from the threat of unauthorized use. Yet, I have not witnessed any
> concrete action by national.
> I have voted for AB representatives since the very first USGWP
> election. Based on the actions these elected officials have thus far
> taken, I lack confidence in them.
> Whether or not the USGenWeb Project succumbs to the commercial
> interests who have made their intentions clear, I don't know.
> Whether or not the USGenWeb Project incorporates as a 401(c)(3) is a
> moot point.
> The protection and preservation of the information that each and
> every member has contributed to the USGWP is of paramount importance.
> My question is: WHAT ARE YOU FOLKS DOING ABOUT IT???
>
> If the national Project follows the example set by the NCGenWeb
> Project, the continued concept of FREE GENEALOGY is assured.
> If our USGWP elected officials continue to diddle and fuss about
> Rules of Order, to the exclusion of concrete action on this pressing
> threat, we doomed to fracture and dissipation and become another
> Internet has-been.
>
> If you generals and admirals do nothing else, how about communicating
> with the soldiers and sailors who are doing their best to fight this war.
>
> Derick S. Hartshorn
> Former NC State Coordinator, NCGenWeb Project
> Current USGenWeb Project-County Coordinator
> Catawba/Burke/Lincoln/Gaston/Cleveland, NC
> http://www.rootsweb.com/~nccatawb/
> http://www.rootsweb.com/~ncburke/
> http://www.rootsweb.com/~nclincol/
> http://www.rootsweb.com/~ncgaston/
> http://www.rootsweb.com/~ncclevel/
> http://www.rootsweb.com/~nhcamher/
>
>
>
> -------------------------------
> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to
> NCGENWEB-DISCUSS-request(a)rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without
> the quotes in the subject and the body of the message
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG.
> Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.0/1344 - Release Date: 3/26/2008
> 8:52 AM
>
>
Dear folks,
Since receiving any response from BOARD-L seems to be an exercise in
futility, I am addressing each member individually.
As a proud member of the NCGenWeb Project, we have taken positive
actions regarding the threat we are faced with.
Messages from USGWP and BOARD-L seem to be dominated by whether or
not to incorporate or to propose a motion or withdraw it.
You folks seem to be bound up in a bureaucracy that seems to be
unable to arrive at a consensus, let alone, advising and informing
Project members.
Meanwhile, 37 states have chosen to move their sites to independent
servers without any seeming help or guidance from our national organization.
I note that the Project page:
http://www.usgenweb.org/projects/index.shtml continues to point to RW
server pages that house an enormous amount of our data.
I have yet to hear from national how this issue will be addressed.
Most of these Projects are rooted in the county level.
I have personally taken it on my own to "adopt" these county Projects
to my newly-housed pages, in effect, duplicating the Project pages.
There is no doubt that our benevolent sponsors have taken actions to
retain these rich resources for some later use, commercial or whatever.
There is a pressing need to act with haste to protect our resources
from the threat of unauthorized use. Yet, I have not witnessed any
concrete action by national.
I have voted for AB representatives since the very first USGWP
election. Based on the actions these elected officials have thus far
taken, I lack confidence in them.
Whether or not the USGenWeb Project succumbs to the commercial
interests who have made their intentions clear, I don't know.
Whether or not the USGenWeb Project incorporates as a 401(c)(3) is a
moot point.
The protection and preservation of the information that each and
every member has contributed to the USGWP is of paramount importance.
My question is: WHAT ARE YOU FOLKS DOING ABOUT IT???
If the national Project follows the example set by the NCGenWeb
Project, the continued concept of FREE GENEALOGY is assured.
If our USGWP elected officials continue to diddle and fuss about
Rules of Order, to the exclusion of concrete action on this pressing
threat, we doomed to fracture and dissipation and become another
Internet has-been.
If you generals and admirals do nothing else, how about communicating
with the soldiers and sailors who are doing their best to fight this war.
Derick S. Hartshorn
Former NC State Coordinator, NCGenWeb Project
Current USGenWeb Project-County Coordinator
Catawba/Burke/Lincoln/Gaston/Cleveland, NC
http://www.rootsweb.com/~nccatawb/http://www.rootsweb.com/~ncburke/http://www.rootsweb.com/~nclincol/http://www.rootsweb.com/~ncgaston/http://www.rootsweb.com/~ncclevel/http://www.rootsweb.com/~nhcamher/
This morning I spoke with Erica Garner in the Trademarks Division of
the NC Secretary of State's office. Our NCGenWeb service mark did,
indeed, expire five years after issue because no one sent in the
required update showing it was still in use (In our case, a web page
print-out suffices.)
To date, no one else has registered the service mark in the state of
NC, so we can still do so by sending in a new application with the
current $75 fee. That said, I personally see little point in doing so
unless we first take the necessary steps to become a legal entity.
As it turns out, Sharon did not register the service mark in her
personal name, rather she listed "NCGenWeb," an "association," as the
registrant. I am certain she was simply trying to do "the right
thing." Unfortunately, "NCGenWeb" is not a legal entity, so the
registration did not accomplish what we intended - i.e., to ensure
our ability to continue using the name "NCGenWeb."
This is the reason our national USGenWeb Project service mark has
always been registered in the personal name of the national
coordinator, then transferred ("assigned") to each subsequent
national coordinator. I thought Sharon had done the same, but I
thoroughly understand the likely reasons she did not. This method of
registration carries a great many drawbacks for all concerned.
The Trademark Division's role is merely to determine whether the mark
has already been registered with the NC Secretary of State by another
entity. The onus is on the registrant as to other matters, including
the legal ability to defend the mark, and whether the mark is
registered by anyone else in another state or with the U.S. Patent &
Trademark Office. (Federal registration was discussed at the time,
and we opted to register solely in NC.)
Ensuring our ability to continue using the name "NCGenWeb" is one of
the benefits of becoming a legal entity. In my opinion it is not the
sole benefit.
-Sandy
>
Why?
On Mar 24, 2008, at 12:23 AM, Paul D. Buckley wrote:
> Sandy,
>
> I think you and I need to take this off list.
>
> Paul
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Sandy" <teylu(a)earthlink.net>
> To: <ncgenweb-discuss(a)rootsweb.com>
> Sent: Monday, March 24, 2008 1:16 AM
> Subject: Re: [NCGENWEB-DISCUSS] the horse's mouth
>
>
>> Paul, there was no change in NC law that affected the registration of
>> the service mark. We never made application or registered it as an
>> "organization"; Sharon registered it in her personal name, because
>> that was the only option without incorporating. From what you're
>> saying, apparently the requisite transfers to the personal name of
>> each subsequent SC was not done.
>>
>> There was no legal provision in NC enabling an unincorporated non
>> profit association to act in the capacity of registering a service
>> mark, or to do anything else as a legal entity for that matter. This
>> is precisely why the legislature adopted the Uniform Unincorporated
>> Nonprofit Association Act and Mike Easley signed it into law in June
>> 2006. It is now N.C.G.S. Chapt 59B. NC became one of only about 11
>> states to adopt the act.
>>
>> The uniform act was written with small, local, informal
>> organizations in mind. In NC, registration is done with the county
>> registers of deeds, not with the Secretary of State, although I am
>> certain the Secty of State's office, as well as the Attorney
>> General's, can provide information about it. Certainly the NC Center
>> for Nonprofits can as well.
>>
>> This is an option which has been discussed on the national project
>> level, but I don't think anyone has ever even brought it up in
>> NCGenWeb, perhaps because NC adopted it less than 2 years ago. The
>> act has pros and cons, the cons being why so few states have adopted
>> it. The full state statute is online for anyone to read:
>> http://www.ncga.state.nc.us/gascripts/Statutes/StatutesTOC.pl?
>> Chapter=0059B
>>
>> -Sandy
>>
>>
>> On Mar 23, 2008, at 11:08 PM, Paul D. Buckley wrote:
>>
>>> Sandy,
>>>
>>> Thanks for posting the other links...didn't mean to leave them out
>>> in my
>>> previous post.
>>>
>>> As for the data on our service mark. Am not sure that the history
>>> of it is
>>> has any thing to do with our discussion of whether or to
>>> incorporate, and
>>> in what tax status. I have been emphatically told by some project
>>> members
>>> that they don't want to know what happened with our project back in
>>> "Ought
>>> Three!" And, since my nearly nine years ASC salary won't even buy
>>> a cup of
>>> coffee, I'm not particularly interested in looking back at my files.
>>>
>>> What is relevant to our discussion about the history, is the legal
>>> complications and confusion with incorporating an organization that
>>> does not
>>> physically exist. And, is exemplary of what happens in the business
>>> of an
>>> unincorporated, loose association.
>>>
>>> But, whether the 2001 filing was for registration of a trademark or
>>> simply
>>> registration of our project with the NC Secretary of State Office,
>>> this is
>>> my recollection. I completed the forms supplied by the NC Sec. of
>>> State,
>>> and sent them to Sharon along with a check to reimburse her for the
>>> filing
>>> fee. The registration was completed. When Angie became SC, she
>>> intended to
>>> effect a transfer of the registration to her name. However,
>>> sometime after
>>> Derick became SC, someone checked and found that it was still in
>>> Sharon's
>>> name. Because of another set of issues, apparently nothing was
>>> done to
>>> transfer the registration. A couple years later, Sharon forwarded
>>> me a
>>> letter from the NC Secretary of State. After checking with
>>> Denise, I
>>> followed up and was informed that our registration was no longer
>>> valid, in
>>> accordance with recent N.C. changes in law, because we were not
>>> incorporated, and we could reapply upon incorporation.
>>>
>>> Perhaps the best thing is for Denise to contact the NC Sec. of
>>> State Office
>>> when she returns.
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>>
>>> Paul
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Sandy" <teylu(a)earthlink.net>
>>> To: "Linda A." <transgenweb(a)yahoo.com>
>>> Cc: <ncgenweb-discuss(a)rootsweb.com>
>>> Sent: Sunday, March 23, 2008 9:11 PM
>>> Subject: [NCGENWEB-DISCUSS] the horse's mouth
>>>
>>>
>>>> Linda (and anybody else) - contacts for questions on every
>>>> aspect of
>>>> nonprofits in NC:
>>>>
>>>> North Carolina Secretary of State:
>>>>
>>>> Corporations Division:
>>>> phone: 919-807-2225
>>>> email: <corpinfo(a)sosnc.com>
>>>> http://www.secretary.state.nc.us/corporations/thepage.aspx
>>>>
>>>> Charitable Solicitations Licensing Division:
>>>> phone: 919 - 807-2214
>>>> toll-free if calling from inside NC: 1-888-830-4989
>>>> email: <csl(a)sosnc.com>
>>>> http://www.secretary.state.nc.us/csl/
>>>>
>>>> Trademarks Section: for full records of our NCGenWeb service mark
>>>> registration, (original registrant Sharon Williamson, April
>>>> 2001; all
>>>> records of subsequent assignment of registration are here and are
>>>> public record; registration is good for 10 years, however at 5
>>>> years
>>>> (2006) - which should be our SC - was supposed to send in another
>>>> specimen showing how the mark is used. If she did not, our mark
>>>> might
>>>> be considered expired, I'm not sure. The Trademarks Section will
>>>> have
>>>> all the answers.)
>>>> phone: 919-807-2162
>>>> email: <trademrk(a)sosnc.com>
>>>> http://www.secretary.state.nc.us/trademrk/
>>>>
>>>> the Secretary's office (Elaine Marshall)
>>>> phone: 919 - 807-2005
>>>> main web page: http://www.secretary.state.nc.us/
>>>> department directory: http://www.secretary.state.nc.us/directory/
>>>>
>>>> Other useful contacts:
>>>>
>>>> North Carolina Center for Nonprofits:
>>>> 919-790-1555
>>>> http://www.ncnonprofits.org/
>>>>
>>>> North Carolina Attorney General, Consumer Protection Division (can
>>>> and will provide useful info concerning various aspects of
>>>> nonprofit
>>>> law in NC):
>>>> phone: 919-716-6400
>>>> toll-free from within NC: (877)-5-NO-SCAM.
>>>> http://www.ncdoj.com/
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -------------------------------
>>>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to
>>>> NCGENWEB-DISCUSS-request(a)rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe'
>>>> without
>>>> the quotes in the subject and the body of the message
>>>
>>>
>>> -------------------------------
>>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to NCGENWEB-
>>> DISCUSS-request(a)rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without
>>> the quotes in the subject and the body of the message
>>
>>
>> -------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to
>> NCGENWEB-DISCUSS-request(a)rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe'
>> without
>> the quotes in the subject and the body of the message
>
>
> -------------------------------
> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to NCGENWEB-
> DISCUSS-request(a)rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without
> the quotes in the subject and the body of the message
Not sure what to say, Paul. You need to read the archives, too, cause
you paid the service mark registration fee. :)
-Sandy
On Mar 23, 2008, at 9:18 PM, Paul D. Buckley wrote:
> Sandy,
>
> Glad you looked it up. But, no I don't remember this.
>
> Paul
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Sandy" <teylu(a)earthlink.net>
> To: <ncgenweb-discuss(a)rootsweb.com>
> Sent: Sunday, March 23, 2008 2:33 PM
> Subject: Re: [NCGENWEB-DISCUSS] Incorporation
>
>
>> Paul,
>>
>> I think you might be confusing the service mark registration. That's
>> also done (still is) with the Secty of State. Is this is what you're
>> thinking of? Denise should be listed as the registrant now:
>>
>>> From: Sharon Williamson <Watauga(a)att.net>
>>> Subject: [NCGENWEB] FYI - Update - Registration of Service Mark
>>> Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 22:19:31 -0400
>>>
>>> Hello NCGenWeb CCs,
>>>
>>> Just wanted to let you know that today I received the NC
>>> Certificate of Registration of the Service Mark, "NCGENWEB".
>>>
>>> Officially we are described as, " NORTH CAROLINA GENEALOGY
>>> RESEARCH LOCATED ON THE INTERNET in class 107, EDUCATION
>>> AND ENTERTAINMENT ".
>>>
>>> Sharon
>>
>>
>> ----------original message-------
>> On Mar 23, 2008, at 10:57 AM, Paul D. Buckley wrote:
>>
>>> Sandy,
>>>
>>> I believe my answer to Linda's question should be interpreted as "I
>>> don't
>>> know, and it is best to get the answer from the applicable agency."
>>>
>>> The NCGenWeb project was registered for several years until the
>>> Sec. of
>>> State discontinued it. The action was done under Sharon's term and
>>> I think
>>> it was discussed on our state lists at the time. Regardless, it
>>> has not
>>> been in effect for several years.
>>>
>>> Paul
>>>
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Sandy" <teylu(a)earthlink.net>
>>> To: <ncgenweb-discuss(a)rootsweb.com>
>>> Sent: Sunday, March 23, 2008 2:45 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [NCGENWEB-DISCUSS] Incorporation
>>>
>>>
>>>> Paul,
>>>>
>>>> I believe you've confused the state solicitation license with the
>>>> separate matter of IRS tax-exemption under 501(c)(3).
>>>> As far as I'm aware the threshold is $5,000 in annual revenues
>>>> before
>>>> an organization must apply to the IRS for the 501(c)(3) exemption.
>>>> The solicitation license has nothing to do with annual revenues.
>>>> North Carolina, like most (probably all) states requires any
>>>> organization that conducts fundraising to obtain a license. The
>>>> organization does not need a license in order to accept
>>>> contributions, it only needs one if it is going to engage in direct
>>>> fundraising. In NC, solicitation licenses are issued by the
>>>> Secty of
>>>> State, same office that handles incorporating. That office is the
>>>> best government contact for questions about both incorporating and
>>>> solicitation licenses.
>>>> Info on NC solicitation licenses is here:
>>>> http://www.secretary.state.nc.us/csl/Licensing.aspx
>>>>
>>>> Who registered NCGenWeb as an unincorporated non profit in NC, and
>>>> when? I don't recall any discussion about this, and can't manage to
>>>> find any mention of it in the lists' archives. NC hasn't even
>>>> had the
>>>> Uniform Unincorporated Nonprofit Assn Act but about a year and a
>>>> half, and I think registration has always been done with the
>>>> register
>>>> of deeds of the county where the organization is located. I'm
>>>> pretty
>>>> sure the Secty of State never has handled anything but nonprofit
>>>> incorporating. Did you register NCGenWeb? Who is the "we" that
>>>> paid
>>>> the $50?
>>>>
>>>> -Sandy
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Mar 22, 2008, at 10:16 PM, Paul D. Buckley wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Linda,
>>>>>
>>>>> I don't recall what the maximum 501(C)(x) limit was when we were
>>>>> looking
>>>>> into it...$5000.00 seems to stick in my mind, but that was in
>>>>> 2006 and
>>>>> congress made a few changes last year. Too, I think Sandy
>>>>> found the
>>>>> $5000.00 amount.
>>>>>
>>>>> But, the whole matter was complicated by various state rules.
>>>>> During our
>>>>> study, I talked with the NC Dept. of Revenue office here in
>>>>> Charlotte, and
>>>>> was told that any organization soliciting funds for any purpose
>>>>> was
>>>>> required
>>>>> to obtain a permit from them and prepare an annual return of
>>>>> receipts
>>>>> regardless of the total.
>>>>>
>>>>> As a former banker and long time researcher, I think it is always
>>>>> best to
>>>>> consult the "official" word on any question from the primary
>>>>> source.
>>>>> www.irs.gov and www.dornc.com are the best places to get an
>>>>> answer
>>>>> to your
>>>>> question.
>>>>>
>>>>> About your problem with the booth at the Transylvania County fair.
>>>>> I am
>>>>> sorry that I missed your post last year...don't know if we could
>>>>> have helped
>>>>> by then. Previous N.C. laws allowed unincorporated nonprofits to
>>>>> register
>>>>> their organizations with the Secretary of the State. The
>>>>> NCGenWeb was
>>>>> registered. However, our General Assembly changed that a
>>>>> couple of
>>>>> years
>>>>> ago and we were dropped of the N.C. Secretary of State list.
>>>>> NCGenWeb
>>>>> Incorporation could remedy that problem...short of chastising our
>>>>> state
>>>>> representatives and/or senators for such a stupid move! And,
>>>>> costing us
>>>>> more than the 50.00 we originally paid!
>>>>>
>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>
>>>>> Paul
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Sorry.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> From: "Linda A." <transgenweb(a)yahoo.com>
>>>>> To: <ncgenweb-discuss(a)rootsweb.com>
>>>>> Sent: Saturday, March 22, 2008 1:57 AM
>>>>> Subject: [NCGENWEB-DISCUSS] Incorporation
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Paul, did you find out what the maximum amount is for an
>>>>>> organization to
>>>>>> raise before it is legally required to file tax returns? ("...an
>>>>>> organization that involves thirteen counties in
>>>>>> two states with receipts of about 3,000.00 per year...")
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Linda A.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -------------------------------
>>>>>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to
>>>>>> NCGENWEB-DISCUSS-request(a)rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe'
>>>>>> without
>>>>>> the quotes in the subject and the body of the message
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> -------------------------------
>>>>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to NCGENWEB-
>>>>> DISCUSS-request(a)rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without
>>>>> the quotes in the subject and the body of the message
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -------------------------------
>>>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to
>>>> NCGENWEB-DISCUSS-request(a)rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe'
>>>> without
>>>> the quotes in the subject and the body of the message
>>>
>>>
>>> -------------------------------
>>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to NCGENWEB-
>>> DISCUSS-request(a)rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without
>>> the quotes in the subject and the body of the message
>>
>>
>> -------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to
>> NCGENWEB-DISCUSS-request(a)rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe'
>> without
>> the quotes in the subject and the body of the message
>
>
> -------------------------------
> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to NCGENWEB-
> DISCUSS-request(a)rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without
> the quotes in the subject and the body of the message
Linda (and anybody else) - contacts for questions on every aspect of
nonprofits in NC:
North Carolina Secretary of State:
Corporations Division:
phone: 919-807-2225
email: <corpinfo(a)sosnc.com>
http://www.secretary.state.nc.us/corporations/thepage.aspx
Charitable Solicitations Licensing Division:
phone: 919 - 807-2214
toll-free if calling from inside NC: 1-888-830-4989
email: <csl(a)sosnc.com>
http://www.secretary.state.nc.us/csl/
Trademarks Section: for full records of our NCGenWeb service mark
registration, (original registrant Sharon Williamson, April 2001; all
records of subsequent assignment of registration are here and are
public record; registration is good for 10 years, however at 5 years
(2006) - which should be our SC - was supposed to send in another
specimen showing how the mark is used. If she did not, our mark might
be considered expired, I'm not sure. The Trademarks Section will have
all the answers.)
phone: 919-807-2162
email: <trademrk(a)sosnc.com>
http://www.secretary.state.nc.us/trademrk/
the Secretary's office (Elaine Marshall)
phone: 919 - 807-2005
main web page: http://www.secretary.state.nc.us/
department directory: http://www.secretary.state.nc.us/directory/
Other useful contacts:
North Carolina Center for Nonprofits:
919-790-1555
http://www.ncnonprofits.org/
North Carolina Attorney General, Consumer Protection Division (can
and will provide useful info concerning various aspects of nonprofit
law in NC):
phone: 919-716-6400
toll-free from within NC: (877)-5-NO-SCAM.
http://www.ncdoj.com/
>
Sandy,
The name? I don't know. "Protection" of the project has been raised, and
my post was made simply to remind N.C. folks that Assumed Name registration
does offer some name protection and offers some legal entity status to a
registrant...but only in the county of registration.
Paul
----- Original Message -----
From: "Sandy" <teylu(a)earthlink.net>
To: <ncgenweb-discuss(a)rootsweb.com>
Sent: Sunday, March 23, 2008 10:16 AM
Subject: Re: [NCGENWEB-DISCUSS] Midnight musings
> Protecting from what?
>
> -Sandy
>
>
> On Mar 22, 2008, at 11:35 PM, Paul D. Buckley wrote:
>
>> Greetings,
>>
>> It occured to me that if any of our members are concerned about
>> protecting
>> their sites and obtaining legal entity status, they can register their
>> site(s) with the applicable Register of Deeds as an "assumed name"
>> as a
>> chapter of the NCGenWeb Project, and as an unincororated non-profit
>> organization.
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Paul
>>
>>
>> -------------------------------
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Paul,
I believe you've confused the state solicitation license with the
separate matter of IRS tax-exemption under 501(c)(3).
As far as I'm aware the threshold is $5,000 in annual revenues before
an organization must apply to the IRS for the 501(c)(3) exemption.
The solicitation license has nothing to do with annual revenues.
North Carolina, like most (probably all) states requires any
organization that conducts fundraising to obtain a license. The
organization does not need a license in order to accept
contributions, it only needs one if it is going to engage in direct
fundraising. In NC, solicitation licenses are issued by the Secty of
State, same office that handles incorporating. That office is the
best government contact for questions about both incorporating and
solicitation licenses.
Info on NC solicitation licenses is here:
http://www.secretary.state.nc.us/csl/Licensing.aspx
Who registered NCGenWeb as an unincorporated non profit in NC, and
when? I don't recall any discussion about this, and can't manage to
find any mention of it in the lists' archives. NC hasn't even had the
Uniform Unincorporated Nonprofit Assn Act but about a year and a
half, and I think registration has always been done with the register
of deeds of the county where the organization is located. I'm pretty
sure the Secty of State never has handled anything but nonprofit
incorporating. Did you register NCGenWeb? Who is the "we" that paid
the $50?
-Sandy
On Mar 22, 2008, at 10:16 PM, Paul D. Buckley wrote:
> Linda,
>
> I don't recall what the maximum 501(C)(x) limit was when we were
> looking
> into it...$5000.00 seems to stick in my mind, but that was in 2006 and
> congress made a few changes last year. Too, I think Sandy found the
> $5000.00 amount.
>
> But, the whole matter was complicated by various state rules.
> During our
> study, I talked with the NC Dept. of Revenue office here in
> Charlotte, and
> was told that any organization soliciting funds for any purpose was
> required
> to obtain a permit from them and prepare an annual return of receipts
> regardless of the total.
>
> As a former banker and long time researcher, I think it is always
> best to
> consult the "official" word on any question from the primary source.
> www.irs.gov and www.dornc.com are the best places to get an answer
> to your
> question.
>
> About your problem with the booth at the Transylvania County fair.
> I am
> sorry that I missed your post last year...don't know if we could
> have helped
> by then. Previous N.C. laws allowed unincorporated nonprofits to
> register
> their organizations with the Secretary of the State. The NCGenWeb was
> registered. However, our General Assembly changed that a couple of
> years
> ago and we were dropped of the N.C. Secretary of State list. NCGenWeb
> Incorporation could remedy that problem...short of chastising our
> state
> representatives and/or senators for such a stupid move! And,
> costing us
> more than the 50.00 we originally paid!
>
> Regards,
>
> Paul
>
>
>
>
> Sorry.
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Linda A." <transgenweb(a)yahoo.com>
> To: <ncgenweb-discuss(a)rootsweb.com>
> Sent: Saturday, March 22, 2008 1:57 AM
> Subject: [NCGENWEB-DISCUSS] Incorporation
>
>
>> Paul, did you find out what the maximum amount is for an
>> organization to
>> raise before it is legally required to file tax returns? ("...an
>> organization that involves thirteen counties in
>> two states with receipts of about 3,000.00 per year...")
>>
>> Linda A.
>>
>>
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>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to
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Greetings,
It occured to me that if any of our members are concerned about protecting
their sites and obtaining legal entity status, they can register their
site(s) with the applicable Register of Deeds as an "assumed name" as a
chapter of the NCGenWeb Project, and as an unincororated non-profit
organization.
Regards,
Paul
Greetings,
I have been asked to share my recent experience with The Charlotte Regional
History Consortium as it may be of interest to our discussion about NCGenWeb
incorporation and its desired IRS tax classification. The following is not
posted as an argument for or against the motion on the floor.
If any of you have stopped in at the N.C. Welcome Centers on I-77 or I-85,
or if you have checked the display racks at the N.C. or S.C. Archives, you
may have noticed a CRHC brochure. Or, you may have seen our latest webpage
at www.charlotteregionalhistory.org.
The Charlotte Regional Historical Consortium (CRHC) was founded as an
unincorporated membership association in 1994 to promote cooperation among
and interest in the region's history organizations and resources. CRHC
holds bi-monthly meetings, which allow the member organizations an
opportunity to exchange ideas, arrange cooperative events, and coordinate,
program scheduling.
The Charlotte region is loosely defined as the thirteen county Charlotte
standard metropolitan statistical area, and much of the area within both
Anson and Rowan county 1760 boundaries, often referred to as the “Carolinas
Back Country.”
CRHC activities are conducted according to its mission statement and bylaws
established in 1994 and vests operational authority in a set of officers
elected annually for a one-year term. The president is limited to one term.
Total membership has remained at about 100 - 125, active membership is about
25 – 30.
Annual membership dues are 25.00. Special assessments are required for
inclusion in brochures (only nonprofit members may be included in CRHC
promotional material). The Charlotte Arts & Science council paid a
significant portion of the last brochure printing.
Responsibility for maintaining the Consortiums bank account is vested in the
sitting treasurer, who collects dues and pays bills. The Consortium does
not have a physical address or office.
A little over a year ago, several members proposed that the CRHC could be
more effective promoting its members by establishing itself as a legal
entity and securing its own independent identity. It was further proposed
that CRHC should develop its own logo, get its own domain name and server,
incorporate as a nonprofit and obtain 501C(3) tax status. These actions, it
was thought, would give CRHC more flexibility to raise funds and give us the
potential to issue grants for projects of benefit to all members.
A committee was appointed to explore the proposals. I served on the
committee
I'll try to summarize what the committee found. (At the risk of repeating
previous postings on the list)
First, incorporation as a nonprofit is relatively easy and inexpensive in
both Carolinas, with or without a physical location. A Non Profit
Corporation may receive money by dues, subscriptions, donations, etc. and
can spend it any way that it wants. Income in excess of expenses is not
considered as profit and is not taxable. State and Federal reporting is
complicated only by the amount and source of income; and in N.C. it is often
done online and takes just a few minutes per year. Foundations, Endowments,
Trade Associations, Societies, etc. often incorporate as nonprofits in North
Carolina.
Second, a Non Profit Corporation also obtaining 501C(x) status exposes
itself to much more complicated requirements that get more and more
complicated based upon the amount and source of its income. It may be
required to register in advance its source and use of funds, and file
detailed compliance reports. Also, certain fund raising activities may
require other permits and reporting to the N.C. Department of Revenue.
Corporations violating requirements may face criminal rather than civil
charges. We were also told that fund raising from a P.O. Box or the
Internet is more closely scrutinized for possible violations.
Third, the committee presented our objectives and findings to local
prominent attorney, who is also an amateur local historian. His credentials
and background includes serving as Senate counsel in the Watergate hearings.
He can be just a tad plainspoken. Our meeting was “off-the-record” and
after we explained what we thought we wanted to do, he offered the following
paraphrased pro bono advice:
"Y'all are nuts. You have an organization that involves thirteen counties in
two states with receipts of about 3,000.00 per year; a board that is elected
annually; your purpose is to promote historical and genealogical interest by
the dissemination of information, historic education, and encouraging
historic site and museum visitation. You want to print some brochures; have
a website; and stay within your budget every year. Why the hell do you want
to expose yourself to all kinds of criminal and civil liabilities and
increased expenses for accounting, legal, and filing expenses to do what you
are already doing?”
The committee reported its findings to the board and the membership. It was
voted to delay further consideration of incorporation based upon cost/value
issues raised in the report. A professional was engaged to register the
CRHC domain, maintain a web page, and provide server space in return for a
small annual fee and promotional consideration. Event sponsoring and
promotional material distribution activities continue.
Regards,
Paul
I brought up incorporation last summer when faced with having to pay
for-profit fees if I wanted to set up a booth at a county fair to promote
the Transylvania GenWeb Project. I couldn't justify the cost, so didn't
participate, but incorporation would help anyone considering a similar
activity.
Linda
Transylvania CC
----- Original Message -----
From: "Sandy" <teylu(a)earthlink.net>
To: <ncgenweb-discuss(a)rootsweb.com>
Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2008 2:11 PM
Subject: [NCGENWEB-DISCUSS] Incorporation
>
> There's been no discussion, so I don't really know whether there's
> much interest in incorporating....
I sent it (bladen.htm) over again, but it said it was already there and
asked me to overwrite. Very strange. I did not see it in the remote list
on the server, but after overwrite I did.
The root directory brought up the page without using bladen.htm
http://www.ncgenweb.us/bladen/
Is this a feature of the new domain?
----- Original Message -----
From: <Mmaker52(a)aol.com>
To: <ncgenweb-discuss(a)rootsweb.com>
Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2008 6:27 PM
Subject: Re: [NCGENWEB-DISCUSS] Bladen County page
>
> In a message dated 3/19/2008 3:48:48 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
> bladencountyncgw(a)triad.rr.com writes:
>
> http://www.ncgenweb.us/bladen/bladen.htm
>
>
> nothing there
>
>
>
> **************Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video on AOL
> Home.
> (http://home.aol.com/diy/home-improvement-eric-stromer?video=15?ncid=aolho...)
>
> -------------------------------
> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to
> NCGENWEB-DISCUSS-request(a)rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without
> the quotes in the subject and the body of the message
Trent,
I do have your Randolph pages backed up. Would you like for me to go ahead
and move them over to the new server? If you prefer to work on the links,
etc. first. I will just hold off but otherwise, I will put them online since
all the virtual links should work anyway.
Just let me know what you prefer.
Nola
----- Original Message -----
From: "Randolph County Gen Web Project" <rcgwp(a)briles.net>
To: <ncgenweb-discuss(a)rootsweb.com>
Sent: Thursday, March 13, 2008 6:34 PM
Subject: Re: [NCGENWEB-DISCUSS] Rootsweb will be no more
> Nola,
>
> Thanks much! Go ahead and reserve me a space on the site. I will get the
> password from you when you are ready and we can change the links later.
>
> Bettie, I agree. I have "non-related" genealogy material on Rootsweb.com
> and
> now I'm worried! I think ASAP isn't quick enough.
>
> Trent Briles
> Randolph CC
>
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> D O T E A S Y - "Join the web hosting revolution!"
> http://www.doteasy.com
>
> -------------------------------
> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to
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> Checked by AVG.
> Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.21.7/1327 - Release Date: 3/12/2008
> 1:27 PM
>
>
There's been no discussion, so I don't really know whether there's
much interest in incorporating. However, there are several steps the
membership will have to take *IF* the motion should pass. Discussing
what would occur if it passes may impact whether people want to vote
'yea' or 'nay.'
The process and associated fees vary somewhat from state to state, so
deciding which state the members prefer to use is a first step. Aside
from cost and ease of procedure, I don't know that any particular
state is necessarily preferable over another. I picked NC out of the
hat. This link takes you to a .pdf download of the booklet the
published by the North Carolina Secty of State's office entitled,
"Incorporating Your Non-Profit in North Carolina." It outlines the
steps, so you can see the various decisions the membership would have
to make if it decides to proceed.
http://www.secretary.state.nc.us/imaging/Dime/IVDOC_12105602.pdf
The booklet covers all types of non profits, and is not specific to
those known as "charitable" non profits (i.e, the category which is
eligible for tax-exempt status under IRS code 501(c)(3) ). Since that
is the type of non profit I specified in the motion, I'll mention
that this category requires the organization to have a mission.
I just wanted to mention that most people associate 501(c)(3)
nonprofits with simply the tax benefit it provide to donors, i.e.
listing contributions as tax deductions. This is true, but because
it is true, this category of nonprofit also must operate very openly,
in a manner more 'transparent' to the public than do others. This
transparency is the primary reason I specified incorporating in a
manner that ensures *eligibility* for seeking the 510(c)(3) approval.
Frankly, I don't know that we would ever need to apply to the IRS for
it, because that is not even necessary until an organization reaches
$5,000 in annual revenues. I don't see that happening anytime soon,
if ever. But, because of the nature of our organization's purpose, I
am aware that we qualify for this category, and since this category
requires the greatest transparency, I believe we should incorporate
in that manner. Of course, that's merely *my* view, but I wanted
everyone to know why I worded the motion as I did.
We are a *membership* organization, which is also important to keep
in mind when looking at the various steps which we will have to take
IF we do incorporate. We'll have to decide who will be the
incorporator(s), how we want to structure our board of directors (how
many, how they will be selected, length of terms, limits of terms,
selection of officers, etc.) These processes will be part of the
bylaws we must also agree upon and adopt.
Bylaws are not policies. Indeed, it is not wise to mix the two. (This
was the major stumbling block when we attempted to form bylaws
several years ago.) However, bylaws certainly can (and I believe
should) address how policies will be made and carried out.
As you'll notice from the booklet, and as others have noted,
especially when the subject of incorporating the national project has
arisen (and we've never even managed to get that idea to a vote),
incorporation in and of itself, doesn't ensure squat when it comes to
how the organization will operate. Any number of "undesirable"
examples of nonprofits have been cited. Many nonprofits - including
501(c)(3)s - are set up specifically to place control of the
organization in the hands of a very select few and to ensure it
remains there. This is extremely easy to do and is largely reflected
by the structure of the board. It is not unusual for membership
organizations to be structured in a manner by which the membership
has little or no part in the decision-making or in the management or
operational management. In organizations involving volunteers, this
very often IS the case - and it should not be implied that this is
necessarily "bad." There are some organization which would not exist
without their volunteers - for example the Red Cross or Special
Olympics - but the volunteers are not involved in selecting the
board, or in the overall management operation of the organization.
Those organizations have paid employees and are much larger
organization with missions that require millions of dollars in
funding in order to exist. So the situation is quite different.
The NCGenWeb Project, by contrast, is solely a volunteer operation
which functions with no budget - although if we incorporate, we may
well have one, even if it's small. However, our volunteer membership
has always provided for full membership participation in the decision-
making of operational management and policies. That can easily be
changed by the bylaws if we incorporate, so it's important to decide
whether we want to make such changes.
Anyway, there's much ahead *IF* the motion passes, so now seems to be
the time to discuss what we'll have to do next in that event.
-Sandy
>
Nola,
No problem. I didn't think of the possibility of a PDF that wasn't
searchable to begin with, so all is well. :)
Mary
-----Original Message-----
From: ncgenweb-discuss-bounces(a)rootsweb.com
[mailto:ncgenweb-discuss-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Nola
Sent: Tuesday, March 18, 2008 10:00 PM
To: ncgenweb-discuss(a)rootsweb.com
Subject: Re: [NCGENWEB-DISCUSS] Site URL changes
Mary,
Sorry I did not read your message first but you are correct that is the way
to do it unless the .pdf was an image file.
Nola
----- Original Message -----
From: "Scotland County NCGenWeb" <ncscotland(a)grandecom.net>
To: <ncgenweb-discuss(a)rootsweb.com>
Sent: Tuesday, March 18, 2008 9:48 PM
Subject: Re: [NCGENWEB-DISCUSS] Site URL changes
> Try these steps....
>
> 1. Click on the Build Index tab.
> 2. Click on the Extended Indexing link.
> 3. Make sure the checkbox for "Include extended file types in the sarch
> results" is checked.
> 4. Click the Finish Button.
> 5. Back on the Build Index tab, click the Index now link.
>
> Mary
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: ncgenweb-discuss-bounces(a)rootsweb.com
> [mailto:ncgenweb-discuss-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Bladen County
> NC
> GenWeb
> Sent: Tuesday, March 18, 2008 9:32 PM
> To: ncgenweb-discuss(a)rootsweb.com
> Subject: Re: [NCGENWEB-DISCUSS] Site URL changes
>
> Question on freefind. I've published a lot of my data on the website as
> pdf. Freefind does not index within the pdf document; it only recognizes
> the wording in the clickable link that takes you to the pdf. Can this be
> changed?
>
>
>
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