Thanks to Kevin, Glyn, John and David:
I very much appreciate the clarifications regarding boundaries old and new,
and will try to sort things out from the information you provided.
The object of my interest concerns the alleged descent of my Evans and Lewis
ancestors from figures of great antiquity in Welsh history. One of my great
aunts prepared a document on the family's origins from family lore and
documentary sources, which she often failed to mention. My attempts to make
a connection between the modern (relatively speaking) and remote ancestors
have thus far not borne fruit. In case the subject may be of interest to
listers, I present the problem here.
First, the Evans ancestors. A quote from an edition of Burke's Peerage is
given:
Robert and John Evans, descended from Elystan Glodrydd, Prince of Fferlys,
who was the founder of the fourth Royal Tribe (time of Norman Conquest).
Fferlys is the county between the Wye and the Severn Rivers in Wales.
My ancestor is Robert Evans of Carmarthenshire, whose descendents lived in
Baymount (County Dublin) and Robinstown (Westmeath). The family is alleged
to have originated in Wales, and to have been prominent at the time of Queen
Elizabeth I. It was at this time that the Irish lands were granted to the
brothers. John's descendents became the Lords Carbery.
The Lewis family. My Lewis ancestors, who lived mainly in Somerset,
originated in Mathern, and are alleged to have been connected to Lewis of
St. Pierre and Moynes Court (not established). This family in turn is
connected to distant chieftans as follows (according to my great aunt's
acccount):
They are a direct line from Cadivor, Prince or Chieftain of Divet, at the
period of the Norman Conquest, who married Ellen, daughter and heiress of
the Great Lord of Kilsant, and had a son Bledri, Lord of Blaenarch, who
married Clyden, daughter and co-heiress of Kidrig ap Gwaitvoed, Lord of
Gwynvaye. He (Cadivor) was buried in the Priory of Caermarthen where many of
the family are buried.
Again, the leap from Mathern to St. Pierre and thence to Cadivor (or
Cydifer) is elusive.
Can my correspondents suggest avenues of research that might lead to success
in this quest? One clue which I located on a website seemed to hold promise
of providing a full descent of the Elystan branch. An excerpt from
Biographical Annals, Ellwood Robert (Vol. 1, pt 1, 1904, Montgomery Co.
Pennsylvania) claims that a manuscript by I.I. Harris held in the British
Museum shows the descent of the Evans family of Carmarthenshire through
Idnerth. However, my enquiries at the British Library turned up nothing that
resembled this.
All suggestions will be welcomed.
Sincerely,
Roy Keys
On Fri, 26 Nov 2004 08:58:44 -0500, Roy Keys <apeiron(a)vif.com> wrote:
Can anyone tell me what modern counties are ambraced by these regions
of
the 15th century.
Hi Roy,
There are no exact equivalents as obviously county borders and names have
changed considerably in that period of time.
This is where you would find them (roughly) in
1.) Medieval times 2.) Before 1994 3.) Now
--------------------------------------------------------
BRYCHEINIOG = BRECONSHIRE = POWYS
RHWNG GWY A HAFREN (BETWEEN THE WYE AND THE SEVERN) = MONMOUTHSHIRE
(became Gwent) = MONMOUTHSHIRE
GWYNEDD UWCH/IS CONWY (GWYNEDD ABOVE/BELOW CONWY) =
[ANGLESEY/CAERNARFON/MERIONETH/DENBIGH] = GWYNEDD
DEHEUBARTH = [CARDIGAN/PEMBROKE/CARMARTHEN (became Dyfed)]=
[CEREDIGION/PEMBROKESHIRE/CARMARTHEN]
GWENT = MONMOUTHSHIRE (became Gwent)= MONMOUTHSHIRE
MORGANNWG = GLAMORGAN = [BRIDGEND/VALE OF GLAMORGAN/RHONDDA CYNON
TAFF/CARDIFF/SWANSEA/NEATH PORT TALBOT]
POWYS = [BRECON/RADNOR/MONTGOMERYSHIRE] = POWYS
FFERLYS = RADNORSHIRE = POWYS
---------------------------------------------------------
I think that's about right, if not I'm sure the historians/geographers
will put me right!
Cheers,
Glyn Hale
--
http://www.halefamily.net
http://www.sitecreations.co.uk
Hi
Glyn wrote:
|
| RHWNG GWY A HAFREN (BETWEEN THE WYE AND THE SEVERN) = MONMOUTHSHIRE
| (became Gwent) = MONMOUTHSHIRE
|
I think this one is wrong. The area referred to is roughly what later became
Radnorshire which is indeed between the (upper) Wye and the (upper) Severn.
Certainly that term was in use in the 11th century for that area (see maps
on plate 23 of William Rees: "An Historical Atlas of Wales").
Regards
David in Hertford, England
On Fri, 26 Nov 2004 16:10:37 -0000, David Wilkinson
<david(a)nrdav.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
| RHWNG GWY A HAFREN (BETWEEN THE WYE AND THE SEVERN) =
MONMOUTHSHIRE
| (became Gwent) = MONMOUTHSHIRE
I think this one is wrong. The area referred to is roughly what later
became Radnorshire which is indeed between the (upper) Wye and the
(upper) Severn.
Certainly that term was in use in the 11th century for that area (see
maps on plate 23 of William Rees: "An Historical Atlas of Wales").
Hi David,
I bow to your superior knowledge. My Historical Atlas of Britain isn't
quite as specific.
I feel a Christmas present coming on!
Cheers,
Glyn
--
http://www.halefamily.net
http://www.sitecreations.co.uk