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Please see below for the recurring grancher mystery...
Dafydd Llwyd
Subject: Re: [GLA] Grancher
Date: Sat, 26 Jun 2004 16:11:56 +1000
In-Reply-To: <006601c45b3d$64be1cd0$6f774ed5@TonysPC>
Tony
I am not surprised! I couldn't resist a quick look on Google to see what a
search on 'grancher' revealed.
>From ten minutes research (which means I make no grand claims about
reliability!) my current hypothesis is that it 'grancher' is very much a
Gwent term. Instances on the net seemed to cluster around Newport,
Abertillery and up to Ebbw Vale. I noticed more a lot more occurrences of
the spelling 'grancha' than 'grancher'.
However, I did not find any clues on its origins.
David
Canberra
> I"m "grancher" to my grandchildren from Gwent, Tony Rogers
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "David Rowlands" < drowlan1(a)bigpond.net.au>
> To: < GLAMORGAN-L(a)rootsweb.com>
> Sent: Saturday, June 26, 2004 1:37 AM
> Subject: Re: [GLA] Grancher
>
>
>> Deirdre
>>
>> I thought it was 'Taid' and 'Nain' in north Wales and 'Tad-cu' and
>> Mam-gu'
>> (for 'grandfather' and 'grandmother') in South Wales. My north Ceredigion
>> grandfather was always 'Taid' and my Rhondda grandfather was (abbreviated
>> to) 'Gu' (pronounced 'Gi' with a hard 'G').
>>
>> I, too have seen these other names mentioned but have no idea of their
>> origin or whether there is any essentially Welsh influence on the
> etymology.
>>
>> David
>> Canberra
>>
>>
>>> Hi All
>>>
>>> The recent threads on 'daps and 'ych a fi', has prompted me to wondered
> if our
>>> family name for our (Welsh) grandfather had any Welsh language
> connections. We
>>> called him Grancher. My mother called her (Welsh) grandfather Grancher
> also. I
>>> noticed some time ago someone else on this list or the Dyfed list
> referred to
>>> her Grancha.
>>>
>>> Any ideas?
>>>
>>> Regards
>>> Deirdre Briscombe
>>> Dungog, Oz.
My mother-in-law referred to her grandfather Robert Roberts as Grandshire,
we thought it might be similiar to Monmouth being referred to as
Monmouthshire, or as the original person or place including the surrounding
area or family? Could this possibly be right or entirely "off the wall"?
Vernia
Dawn,
Thanks for the answer. I thought that it might mean grandpa or grandma.
My Welsh grandmother told me that granddad and grandmother were Dad-key or
Dad-gee and Mom-key or Mom-gee. I don't know the correct spelling but that
is what it sounded like to me as a young person. But she didn't want me to
call her that. She always said this it the "new country." we are not in the
"old country." I believe that she told me that as a school girl in Wales
(1880's and 1890's), she was not permitted to speak Welsh in school. She was
fluent in Welsh and English. She always said that she wasn't fluent in Welsh but
the minute that one of her sisters or Welsh speaking friends called her on
the phone, she spoke only Welsh! I think it was a way to keep little ears
from ease dropping!!!!
Thanks,
Janet
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You are probably right though Glyn.
Isn't it amazing how we do not think to query these things until later in
life? Typical of Famhist that- don't take in what the ancient members of the
family tell us until they have died and then can't recall what they said. I
wish I'd listened more to my grancher, it would be of great help to me now.
Have an aunt who is still living at 103+ but unfortunately she is one of the
family with a poor memory.
Nowadays we see the glow from large cities from miles away. Too much light
pollution now,can no longer see the stars properly like when I was small.
Regards
Dawn
dawn.cumbley(a)virgin.net
----- Original Message -----
From: "Glyn Hatherall" <glyn(a)hatherall.org.uk>
To: <monmouthshire(a)rootsweb.com>
Sent: Tuesday, March 27, 2007 10:14 AM
Subject: Re: [MON] Blaenavon
> To complicate the issue: I remember being on the Coity Mountain
> (overlooking Blaenavon) in the dusk in app 1950-55 and seeing a rich
> glow on the horizon to the west. But it wasn't the sun setting, so we
> lads reckoned it must have come from a steel works in an adjacent
> valley. We never thought at the time to ascertain whether this was
> plausible. I doubt whether the glow could have been seen from right
> down in the town, but it was probably visible from higher up on the
> eastern side of Blaenavon, too .
>
> Glyn Hatherall
> Ealing, London
> glyn(a)hatherall.org.uk
> scarrott(a)one-name.org
>
>
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>
Hello
Granch/er is a word that has always been used by many instead of grandfather
or granddad, I have thought it to be a shorten version of grandfather
Grandfather and Grandmother in french is Grand-pere.m Grand-mere,f
Regards Barbara
Dawn, I was wondering what grancher means?
Janet
USA
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To complicate the issue: I remember being on the Coity Mountain
(overlooking Blaenavon) in the dusk in app 1950-55 and seeing a rich
glow on the horizon to the west. But it wasn't the sun setting, so we
lads reckoned it must have come from a steel works in an adjacent
valley. We never thought at the time to ascertain whether this was
plausible. I doubt whether the glow could have been seen from right
down in the town, but it was probably visible from higher up on the
eastern side of Blaenavon, too .
Glyn Hatherall
Ealing, London
glyn(a)hatherall.org.uk
scarrott(a)one-name.org
Our local library allows access to the Times Digital Archive. The Article
is dated Monday 5 August 1929. I can only seem to save the whole page, so
the image is a 1Mb pdf file. If anyone would like please email offline and
I can send you a copy.
David
-----Original Message-----
From: Dawn Cumbley [mailto:dawn.cumbley@virgin.net]
Sent: 26 March 2007 21:48
To: dave(a)hodgson-brown.co.uk; monmouthshire(a)rootsweb.com
Subject: Re: [MON] Blaenavon
Thanks David
Yes, conditions must have been horrendous - could you tell me which article
you are referring to as it may be interesting for me to read.
Regards
Dawn
dawn.cumbley(a)virgin.net
----- Original Message -----
From: "David Hodgson-Brown" <dave(a)hodgson-brown.co.uk>
To: <monmouthshire(a)rootsweb.com>
Sent: Monday, March 26, 2007 5:59 PM
Subject: Re: [MON] Blaenavon
>I have just read an article in The Times digital archive. It was about how
> bad the living conditions were at the time. In the article it mentions
> that
> Steel production stopped in 1921.
>
> David
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: monmouthshire-bounces(a)rootsweb.com
> [mailto:monmouthshire-bounces@rootsweb.com]On Behalf Of Hugh Watkins
> Sent: 26 March 2007 02:20
> To: monmouthshire(a)rootsweb.com
> Subject: Re: [MON] Blaenavon
>
>
>
> On 25 Mar 2007, at 23:03, Jeff Coleman wrote:
>
>> You get [ or now used to get, as far as most of South Wales except
>> Margam is
>> concerned] quite a glow if coke ovens are being emptied at night,
>> so you
>> might not be talking about a blast furnace.
>>
>> I recall looking down into the Garw valley in Glamorgan from the
>> slopes of
>> Mynydd Caerau or Mynydd Werfa at dusk and seeing red-hot coke being
>> pushed
>> out of the ovens, somewhere near Blaengarw I expect. That would
>> have been
>> early 1960s. If there weren't any coke ovens in the Garw valley
>> maybe it was
>> Nantymoel .....
>
> or even any old local gas works
>
> Hugh W
>
> --
> a wonderful artist in Denmark
> http://www.ingerlisekristoffersen.dk/
>
> Beta blogger
> http://snaps4.blogspot.com/ photographs and walks
>
> old blogger GENEALOGE
> http://hughw36.blogspot.com/ MAIN BLOG
>
>
>
>
> -------------------------------
> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to
> MONMOUTHSHIRE-request(a)rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the
> quotes in the subject and the body of the message
>
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>
> -------------------------------
> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to
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>
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> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
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Hi,
Im researching the HERN family from Devon and woould like to try and get in
contact with possible family still living in Wales.They start from a JAMES
HERN and born abt 1817 and ELIZABETH RODD, they married in 1836, at
Morwenstow in Cornwall.They had 5 children, 2 of which moved and married to
Wales(That Im aware of).
1.NOAH HERN born 1839 at BULKWORTHY, married a JANE SMITH in 1867 at
NEWPORT.They had 8 children:
AUGUSTUS 1863, WILLIAM 1869, FREDERICK 1870, GEORGE , JAMES, ANNIE,
ELIZABETH and HENRIETTA.
2.WILLIAM ROD HERN born 1845 married a KETURAH PRICE in 1867 at NEWPORT.So
far I know of 1 child W H JAMES HERN born 1870.
If anybody has interest or more info, then please get in touch!
Thank you
Stuart
_________________________________________________________________
Txt a lot? Get Messenger FREE on your mobile.
https://livemessenger.mobile.uk.msn.com/
Thanks Hugh
Regards
Dawn
dawn.cumbley(a)virgin.net
----- Original Message -----
From: "Hugh Watkins" <jonesraglan(a)aol.com>
To: <monmouthshire(a)rootsweb.com>
Sent: Monday, March 26, 2007 2:19 AM
Subject: Re: [MON] Blaenavon
>
> On 25 Mar 2007, at 23:03, Jeff Coleman wrote:
>
>> You get [ or now used to get, as far as most of South Wales except
>> Margam is
>> concerned] quite a glow if coke ovens are being emptied at night,
>> so you
>> might not be talking about a blast furnace.
>>
>> I recall looking down into the Garw valley in Glamorgan from the
>> slopes of
>> Mynydd Caerau or Mynydd Werfa at dusk and seeing red-hot coke being
>> pushed
>> out of the ovens, somewhere near Blaengarw I expect. That would
>> have been
>> early 1960s. If there weren't any coke ovens in the Garw valley
>> maybe it was
>> Nantymoel .....
>
> or even any old local gas works
>
> Hugh W
>
> --
> a wonderful artist in Denmark
> http://www.ingerlisekristoffersen.dk/
>
> Beta blogger
> http://snaps4.blogspot.com/ photographs and walks
>
> old blogger GENEALOGE
> http://hughw36.blogspot.com/ MAIN BLOG
>
>
>
>
> -------------------------------
> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to
> MONMOUTHSHIRE-request(a)rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the
> quotes in the subject and the body of the message
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 268.18.18/734 - Release Date:
> 26/03/2007 14:31
>
>
Well Listers
What a lot of replies I have had so I am posting a general thanks.
I appear to have opened a great discussion that has been most interesting. I
still have to digest all I have received.
May I thank all who have so kindly answered my query, it is most kind of you
all. It's great to have such varied info.
My family would have been quite aware of where the furnace works were as
they came from a long line of furnace workers (my grandfather was not) and
some of my relatives lived in the Abersychan/Blaenavon/Risca areas. I do not
think it likely that my grandfather would have been mistaken in seeing the
glow from Blaenavon furnace. What I really wanted to establish was if my dad
would have been able to have experienced it as he said he had, since he was
born 1906. This all because I am trying to assemble a booklet of some of his
reminiscences and wanted to check the facts. Don't want to put something
that may not be true. GRIN. Now I can hedge my bets a bit about it somewhat.
If Forgeside was taken out of service in 1938 my dad would have been correct
but no way would I have been able to have seen the glow.
Regards
Dawn
dawn.cumbley(a)virgin.net
Many Thanks
Chris
ps Got your link
----- Original Message -----
From: "Hugh Watkins" <jonesraglan(a)aol.com>
To: <monmouthshire(a)rootsweb.com>
Sent: Monday, March 26, 2007 2:17 AM
Subject: Re: [MON] Whatchtower Parade Newport
>
> On 25 Mar 2007, at 19:37, Chris Perkins wrote:
>
>> Hi, I'm looking for Whatchtower Parade (or Watchhouse) as the
>> address for some of my ancestors in the 1861 Census.
>> I assume it is around Pill, Can anyone tell me of the exact location
> never assume
>
> 1881 census is a freebie gazetteer too
>
> use Keyword(s) for addresses and occupations
>
>
> 1881 Wales Census
> about Henry Barincoat
> Name: Henry Barincoat
> Age: 66
> Estimated birth year: abt 1815
> Relation: Head
> Gender: Male
> Where born: Penryn, Cornwall, England
>
> Civil parish: St Woollos
> County/Island: Monmouthshire
> Country: Wales
>
> Street address: 23 Watch House Parade
> Condition as to marriage: Married
> Education: View image
> Employment status: View image
> Occupation: Engine Fitter
>
> Registration district: Newport
> Sub-registration district: Newport
> ED, institution, or vessel: 19
> Neighbors: View others on page
> Household Members:
> Name Age
> Henry Barincoat 66
>
> Source Citation: Class: RG11; Piece: 5264; Folio: 22; Page: 37;
> Line: ; GSU roll: 1342266.
>
> above the image
> You are here: Search > Census > UK Census Collection > 1881 Wales
> Census > Monmouthshire > St Woollos > District 19
>
> click on St Woollos then
> District 19 >>> View description of enumeration district <<<
>
> an email from ancestry with a link to the image is on its way
>
> Hugh W
>
> --
> a wonderful artist in Denmark
> http://www.ingerlisekristoffersen.dk/
>
> Beta blogger
> http://snaps4.blogspot.com/ photographs and walks
>
> old blogger GENEALOGE
> http://hughw36.blogspot.com/ MAIN BLOG
>
>
>
>
> -------------------------------
> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to
> MONMOUTHSHIRE-request(a)rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the
> quotes in the subject and the body of the message
>
Sorry, that I sent to the List. I am so used to selecting "Reply ALL." My
apologies to the List. Janet
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David, that would be wonderful. Thanks so much.
God Bless,
Janet
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Hugh,
I have read the book "How Green Was My Valley" and seen the movie. My
grandmother who lived in Aberdare until she was 13, told my Mother that the
movie was pretty close to what she remembered as a young girl in Wales except
for the scene where the Mother sits with her apron open to collect everyone's
pay on pay day!
I love neat the end of the movie, where Hugh brings out a world map and
shows his mother the different country's that all her children have got to.
South Africa, Australia, the USA and more that I can't remember. This to me
was extremely moving because, I know that my grandmother's extended Lloyd
family did scatter around the world. These are collateral ancestors of mine
that I would have know if we had all been able to stay in the same area. Now, I
will never get to know them.
My Grandmother said that when you got up in the morning in (Rhondda
Valley) Wales, if it wasn't raining, it was going to!
I have also read the "The Citadel" by A. J. Cronin many years ago and
was very moved by it
I don't know how the mine owners treated my family in the USA but I know
they must have been pretty bad to some people because the "Molly Maquire's"
were quite active in our area. They bombed my grandmother's family church
(Welsh Congregational in Edwardsville,PA) just because the mine owner's also
went to that church.
All things considered, I would rather harvest fruit than work in the
Iron Works or the coal mines!
Janet
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I have just read an article in The Times digital archive. It was about how
bad the living conditions were at the time. In the article it mentions that
Steel production stopped in 1921.
David
-----Original Message-----
From: monmouthshire-bounces(a)rootsweb.com
[mailto:monmouthshire-bounces@rootsweb.com]On Behalf Of Hugh Watkins
Sent: 26 March 2007 02:20
To: monmouthshire(a)rootsweb.com
Subject: Re: [MON] Blaenavon
On 25 Mar 2007, at 23:03, Jeff Coleman wrote:
> You get [ or now used to get, as far as most of South Wales except
> Margam is
> concerned] quite a glow if coke ovens are being emptied at night,
> so you
> might not be talking about a blast furnace.
>
> I recall looking down into the Garw valley in Glamorgan from the
> slopes of
> Mynydd Caerau or Mynydd Werfa at dusk and seeing red-hot coke being
> pushed
> out of the ovens, somewhere near Blaengarw I expect. That would
> have been
> early 1960s. If there weren't any coke ovens in the Garw valley
> maybe it was
> Nantymoel .....
or even any old local gas works
Hugh W
--
a wonderful artist in Denmark
http://www.ingerlisekristoffersen.dk/
Beta blogger
http://snaps4.blogspot.com/ photographs and walks
old blogger GENEALOGE
http://hughw36.blogspot.com/ MAIN BLOG
-------------------------------
To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to
MONMOUTHSHIRE-request(a)rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the
quotes in the subject and the body of the message
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David,
What was the time frame for this article ("the living conditions were
bad"). My Wall family worked at the Blaenavon Iron Works in the 1870's. Where
can I find the Times (is it the London Times?) digital article? I would
like to know as much as I can about life there for my family book that I will
make one day for my children, and my nieces and nephews.
Perhaps, those conditions were part of the reason that my great
grandfather, William Wall, left his family and came to America to search for gold in
California!!!
God Bless,
Janet Virginia, USA
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Walt <walt.king(a)phonecoop.coop> wrote:
Here, it says that the last furnace was dismantled in 1938:
"However, by 1914, Blaenavon was in decline. Steelworks moved nearer to the
sea for obvious reasons and in 1938 the last Blaenavon furnace was
dismantled."
Meanwhile, Wikipedia maintains its customary standards:
.... but since the ironworks closed in 1900 and the coal mine in 1980, the
population has declined, and now consists mostly of older citizens.
There is so much junk on the internet and the rubbish gets copied and
propagated endlessly so it's important to use reliable sources. Gwent RO and
BBC should be good. It seems that the last furnace was dismantled the year
you were born.............
===================
Dear Walt,
The sources you've quoted are describing two different ironworks sites. The
Forge Side site ceased production in 1938, while the original North Street
site closed in the early 1900s.
The Blaenavon Industrial Landscape World-Heritage website states:
----------------
The main focus of the area is Blaenavon Ironworks, a site in state care,
where there are remains of a works with six blast furnaces in which, from
1789 until 1902, ore was smelted to produce pig iron.
----------------
[http://www.world-heritage-blaenavon.org.uk/]
The Swansea Local History website's South Wales Coal Mining Trail includes
an article on Blaenavon Ironworks that states:
----------------
The decline in the steel industry at Blaenavon marked the end of iron-making
on the old site and the last furnace was blown out in 1904.
----------------
[http://www.page-net.com/swansea.localhistory/llansamlet/pages/miningtrail...]
On page 82 of "Blaenavon Through the Years" Volume 2, Malcom Thomas and John
Lewis clarify the situation for us. I quote:
----------------
In the late 1830s, three modern blast furnaces were constructed on the new
site at Forge Side. The new location was chosen due to there being ample
room for expansion and for the siting of new machinery. Its position would
also be accessible to the increasing network of railways in South Wales.
The move heralded the closure of the North Street site, which ceased
production by the end of the 19th century.
----------------
Note that the World Heritage Site is the North Street works.
["Blaenavon Through the Years - in photographs" by Malcom Thomas and John
Lewis, Volume 2, published 1988 by Old Bakehouse Publications, Abertillery;
ISBN 0-9512181-3-1]
To summarise - the original North Street works, which is the famous World
Heritage Site, ceased production soon after 1900. Production then switched
entirely to the Forge Side site whose last furnace was taken out of
commission in 1938.
Kind regards,
John
--------------------
John Ball, Ystalyfera, near Swansea, Wales, UK
E-mail: john(a)jlb2005.plus.com
John's Homepage: http://www.jlb2005.plus.com/
Images of Wales: http://www.jlb2005.plus.com/walespic/
Welsh Family History Archive: http://www.jlb2005.plus.com/wales/
GENUKI Breconshire Maintainer: http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/BRE/
Joint Administrator - Powys (& BRE/MGY/RAD) RootsWeb mailing lists