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Back in the mid-1800s my family changed its surname from HALL to SHAW. Is
there any way I can find out from official records exactly when and why the
name was changed?
Thanks for any help.
Bob, I enjoyed reading how the railway impacted your family. Was this when railways were rapidly being developed across the country? It makes me wonder if your family changed locations as jobs opened up.
Thanks for posting.
> On Nov 27, 2019, at 2:51 AM, familyhistory <familyhistory(a)bccy.org.uk> wrote:
> Sent again as this didn't make it into the Archive.
> I may have posted some of this before in reply to a similar request - if
> so apologies to those who have already seen it.
> If you follow this link - http://www.bccy.org.uk/ there are five stories
> I put together while researching my own and my wife's family histories -
> they are the ones on the left starting with "The Railway Children". I
> don't claim any of the Calverts are "my" family, (other than Turner
> Calvert mentioned in "The American Connection) just that I came across
> them while researching the family and though they might be of interest.
> I have posted this as a link rather than copying the tales into this
> reply as some of the formatting is unsuitable for posting to a plain
> text group.
>> On 23/11/2019 17:23, N NASH wrote:
>> I miss the many postings of the past before the site went down for awhile!
>> There is little traffic so could we approach accessing information
>> from a different direction? Let’s share stories of what are ancestors
>> did, who they may have done it with and by so doing bits of data may
>> provide a link to our research.
>> For example my relative John Pernie was a mariner in Ulverston.
>> Beginning as a ship hand he became captain, a pilot and in his later
>> years a grocer. Would you like to bet his inventory was misplaced
>> goods? As a pilot he watched for ships coming in and rushed out to
>> meet them, for whoever got there first got the job. Where he sailed,
>> what he transported and events he was part may help others in their quest.
>> His children married into other mariner families.
>> Please share your stories, entertain us, help us and rebuild history.
>> Mike Morris your emails are missed. Spin us a yarn.
>> -- Bob C
> Be sure mail to the list is in PLAIN TEXT.
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A happy Lancashire Day to you all!*
Further to Robyn's message about not finding posts in the list archives, just wanted to alert you to problems with the archives in case you haven't found this out yourselves.
If you look at the archives post by post, month by month, they seem to be working, but if you search the archives, no recent posts will be displayed. Very annoying. I've reported the issue to the help desk, but it couldn't hurt if a few of you also did so. The help desk can by contacted via the <https://support.rootsweb.com/s/contactsupport>.
And while I have your attention, I'd like to point out that the archives no longer contain the email address of the poster. If you would like anyone who sees your posts in the archives to be able to contact you, add your email address to the body of your list messages. If you're concerned your email address will be harvested by spammers, etc., put spaces between the name and the ISP or substitute (at) for the @ sign, e.g, lklein(at)mindspring.com
*Thanks for the reminder, Bob!
Sorry you're having problems with list mail. Obviously, your post below got through.
From what you've written about not receiving list mail, it may be that RootsWeb mail is being discarded as spam by your Internet provider.
If you continue to have problems posting, send a bcc (not a cc) to me at lklein @ mindspring.com when you send a message to the list. My copy may reveal some hints as to why your messages are not reaching the list.
Robyn Clarke <rsclarke(a)bigpond.com> wrote:
>This is simply to see what's happening between my emails and Lancsgen. I am
>checking the Archives daily to see what is being discussed, as I appear to
>be not getting all the correspondence. As well, sent a response this week
>to the DNA question and that hasn't gone through, albeit sent Plain Text and
>no problems this end. Surnames: Armitage and Barnes and many
>others.......over many years subscribed.
>Hope this gets through....
This is simply to see what's happening between my emails and Lancsgen. I am
checking the Archives daily to see what is being discussed, as I appear to
be not getting all the correspondence. As well, sent a response this week
to the DNA question and that hasn't gone through, albeit sent Plain Text and
no problems this end. Surnames: Armitage and Barnes and many
others.......over many years subscribed.
Hope this gets through....
I received, off-list, a reply from a person whose DNA test revealed her grandmother's father abandoned the mother and baby and started another family. The writer has cousins who won't respond to her or him.
The writer's experience is unfortunately common; it's the most frequent complaint I hear. Newly-discovered family members are frequently embarrassed, even about things they had no responsibility for.
The writer asked why someone would take a DNA test but not want to communicate with found family. I suspect that many just haven't thought it through; the test was an impulse buy and, maybe, more for ethnicity than genealogy.
As a genetic genealogist, I focus primarily on direct paternal lineages, but the experience there may be more generally applicable. About 20% of people testing Y-DNA have a "NPE" in their paternal tree. (NPE stands for not-the-parent-expected; it encompasses a wide range of causes, including adoption.)
Marg asked: "Now I wonder, do family historians take this type of news much better than others?"
Perhaps. If a genealogist's research is reasonably thorough, he or she will have already discovered some surprises without the use of DNA. Some will have been pleasant, some less so.
Trying once more to make contact with anyone researching this name . My
husband goes back to an Abraham de Soiza and Alice Ruck both b abt 1799 .
His line their eldest child Rachel de Soiza b Whitechapel 1821 .
My husband John Brown b Heywood , Lancs . 1932 .
John's DNA results are bizarre to say the least . Top marker is Easter
Island .as well as Hainan Island , an Is just below Hong Kong . I have
worked out the Easter Is bit but the China has us baffled . Could be
because several young men were taken from Easter Is mid 1800's and some
returned a few yrs later . Who ever left his genes in China . We only
received 1 result , in Chile which fits with Easter Is. but sadly no reply
Any ideas would be appreciated . Their were also 3 Jewish connections.
Sephardic, Ashkenazi and Cohens priests .
All very intriguing .
I have googled Easter Is and there is a lot of interesting facts for me to
follow up .
Really looking for family so can compare DNA results . So far no luck .
Shirley New Zealand
What a surprize, we also have someone in the family, where elderly mum confessed on death bed that eldest son was result of war time affair when husband was away.
Now I wonder, do family historians take this type of news much better than others?
A non genealogist colleague recently found out at his elderly mum's funeral that he was adopted, and then realised everyone - except him - at the funeral knew. He has been quite depressed ever since.
Fromelles Association of Australia
Hunter Valley NSW
From: Mike Morris <morrisind(a)rogers.com>
Sent: Tuesday, 26 November 2019 2:24 AM
To: lancsgen <lancsgen(a)rootsweb.com>
Subject: [LAN] Re: [EXTERNAL] Lack of postings
Thank you Noreen, that was very kind of you to mention my name. As you noticed our lists are very quiet, they don't have the postings we had in the past years. However, in my case my family interests took a big turn this year. My family bought me one of those Ancestry DNA test kits. It gave me a surprise I was not expecting. It turns out my dad is not my birth father. I have 45% central south Asian DNA. and 3% Persian/Iranian DNA. 2% Norway (Viking) The balance is England north west, Isle of Man and Cornwall and Devon.
The Viking connection we can pin down to our BIGLAND family in the northwest.
Because of this I have been pursuing DNA relatives most of who are in the USA. All have been very receptive and kind with their responses. I have at least twelve family surnames. They are KAKKAR, KHANNA, SIKKA, SETH, KAPOOR, GARELLA, SABHARWAL, SURI, ANAND and MALHOTRA. Not a Lancashire or Manchester name amongst them and they all belong to a Caste named KHATRI. They are they are from the Punjab region. So for me I have a new area of research. Based on my skin colour I thought I might have a Jewish connection. But when I was in the forces I was told In Cyprus, and Egypt "You one of us Johnny". I have been looked upon as Jew, Italian. Spanish, Turkish, Portuguese you name it. Almost got myself shot by one of my own platoon when I put on a Fez I had found in an area in Suez we had captured.
So to cut this short Noreen, I am still here, but don't see the queries we use to get. I do enjoy helping people and with that in mind, some of you might enjoy a web site from Facebook named 'Memories of living in Manchester'. I see lots of old pictures of Manchester posted by its list members and responses that are not family history topics, but still might tweak a memory from some of you from days of your youth or your grandparents.
The dad who brought me up in Manchester is and always will be my dad, Sad he passed away many years ago.
All my best,
Mike Morris Toronto Canada
On Saturday, November 23, 2019, 12:24:03 p.m. EST, N NASH <nnash(a)shaw.ca> wrote:
Mike Morris your emails are missed. Spin us a yarn. <snipped?
Be sure mail to the list is in PLAIN TEXT.
GENUKI - a virtual reference library of genealogical information. http://www.genuki.org.uk/
Don't forget to check the Lancashire message board for new queries, links, and information.
To UNSUBSCRIBE via email, send a Plain Text email with the single word UNSUBSCRIBE in both the subject and body of the message to lancsgen-leave(a)rootsweb.com _______________________________________________
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I also miss the postings which we had over the years.
My relative Jonathon MAPES was born in 1844 in
Kenninghall, Norfolk, his mother died when he was 4 yrs old
so he lived with his father, brother and maternal
grandmother. On the 1861 Census he has found his
way to Yorkshire where he is an apprentice
Blacksmith. In 1868 he married Mary HINDLE in Littleborough,
Lancashire, their only child Hindle was born in
1869, by 1871 Mary and Hindle are living with her parents in
Blatchinworth, Lancs, there is no sign of
Jonathan anywhere in England, in 1879 Mary marries James LORD,
registered in Rochdale, Lancs, by 1901 Census
Mary & James LORD are living in Todmorden, Yks, Hindle
remained in Lancashire and married Sarah Jane ROWLINSON
In the Rochdale Lancashire Observer for Feb 1869
- there is mention of an auction of the Smithy and Workshop,
Victoria St, Littleborough of all the blacksmith
equipment of Jonathan MAPES, so what has happened to
Jonathan, did he just disappear or die without anyone knowing who he was?.
I would love to be in contact with any of
Jonathan's descendants, he is my great grand uncle, brother of my
great grandfather George MAPES (1840-1917)
At 04:23 AM 24/11/2019, you wrote:
>I miss the many postings of the past before the site went down for awhile!
>There is little traffic so could we approach
>accessing information from a different
>direction? Letâs share stories of what are
>ancestors did, who they may have done it with
>and by so doing bits of data may provide a link to our research.
>For example my relative John Pernie was a
>mariner in Ulverston. Beginning as a ship hand
>he became captain, a pilot and in his later
>years a grocer. Would you like to bet his
>inventory was misplaced goods? As a pilot he
>watched for ships coming in and rushed out to
>meet them, for whoever got there first got the
>job. Where he sailed, what he transported and
>events he was part may help others in their quest.
>His children married into other mariner families.
>Please share your stories, entertain us, help us and rebuild history.
>Mike Morris your emails are missed. Spin us a yarn.
>Be sure mail to the list is in PLAIN TEXT.
>GENUKI - a virtual reference library of
>information. http://www.genuki.org.uk/ Don't
>forget to check the Lancashire message board for
>new queries, links, and information. To
>UNSUBSCRIBE via email, send a Plain Text email
>with the single word UNSUBSCRIBE in both the
>subject and body of the message to
>Email preferences: http://bit.ly/rootswebpref
>https://ancstry.me/2JWBOdY Terms and
>Conditions: https://ancstry.me/2HDBym9 Rootsweb
>Blog: http://rootsweb.blog RootsWeb is funded
>and supported by Ancestry.com and our loyal RootsWeb community
I miss the many postings of the past before the site went down for awhile!
There is little traffic so could we approach accessing information from a different direction? Let’s share stories of what are ancestors did, who they may have done it with and by so doing bits of data may provide a link to our research.
For example my relative John Pernie was a mariner in Ulverston. Beginning as a ship hand he became captain, a pilot and in his later years a grocer. Would you like to bet his inventory was misplaced goods? As a pilot he watched for ships coming in and rushed out to meet them, for whoever got there first got the job. Where he sailed, what he transported and events he was part may help others in their quest.
His children married into other mariner families.
Please share your stories, entertain us, help us and rebuild history.
Mike Morris your emails are missed. Spin us a yarn.
The Chronicle Herald, Halifax, November 15, 2019
1930 to 2019. Keith left Manchester, England in 1954, aboard the
steamship S.S. Columbia, crossing through the path of a hurricane and
arriving in Halifax at Pier 21, en-route to Toronto. His original
destination was Australia, but meeting his future wife altered that
plan. Reading the want ads, and finding a position that offered a free
car as a perk, set the stage for his next 50 years in the pharmaceutical
industry. Keith truly loved working for ICI Pharma, and Astra Zeneca. He
rose to the position of Executive Specialty Products manager before
reaching the age of 60. He then became the sales manager for the
Atlantic provinces and realized that his dream was nearing the end upon
turning 65. He switched back into a sales position, and worked
feverishly to become the best sales person in the organization, before
turning 65, which he did. He said "they would never get rid of their
best salesman." He continued in this position until well into his 80th
year. Keith spent his last ten years researching nutrition on the
internet, and wrote a manual on the optimal diet, which he followed. He
loved the people of Halifax and those he worked with in the medical
community. His dedication to science led him to donate his body to
Dalhousie University. The man who always answered the phone saying
"Howdy" will be missed but not forgotten by all those whose life he
touched. We love you, Pops. Dearest father of Lynda Gourlay and Brian
Bradshaw; father-in-law, of Jon and Michelle; and grandfather to
Spencer, Wesley, and Leanne Gourlay, and Eliza Bradshaw. Condolences
would be warmly received at: bbbradshaw2000(a)yahoo.com
The next meeting of the LFHHS Pendle & Burnley Branch will take place
on*Wednesday 20th November* in the usual venue, the upstairs meeting
room at Colne Library BB8 0AP. A lift is available to access the
upstairs room if preferred.
*The speaker, Edgar Holroyd-Doveton*, is a researcher and writer on
local and family history. *His illustrated talk is called "The Woollen
and Textile Industry in 19th Century England"*. This is what he says
From the late 18th through the 19th century there was a transformation
in the structure and size of the woollen and textile industry in
England. From an industry largely based on cottage production, huge
mills sprung up, employing thousands. England became the workshop of the
The heart of this change was centred in Lancashire and the West Riding
of Yorkshire through its production of woollen and cotton textiles.
This talk takes an overview of this development and looks at the life
and experience of the people involved.
*The talk starts at 7.30pm - doors open at 7pm* so there will be a
chance to chat to other members and perhaps ask for help with any
problems you have come across in your research. All welcome. The meeting
room is upstairs but there is a lift available. The full address is
Colne Library, Market Street, Colne, Lancashire, BB8 0AP.
Please note: Colne Library closes to the public at 6pm. The meeting room
is accessed via the rear entrance facing the car park which has no
restrictions in the evenings. _This door is locked once the talk begins
(7.30pm)_ for security reasons, so please try to arrive in good time.
See the website http://www.lfhhs-pendleandburnley.org.uk for further
Application forms to join the Society will be available - please just ask.
*And a final note: The December meeting will be the Christmas Party on
4th December but for catering reasons, anyone attending needs to have
booked in advance!*
I have been following the posts on Dog Tags with interest over the last
few days and would like to add the following.
My Grandfather served in the 15^th Battalion Notts & Derby and I have a
copy of the war dairies the following is taken from orders for a raid on
German trenches for the 25/10/16. Under Identification it states: - All
identification is to be removed from all clothing, arms & equipment.
*Identification discs* to be removed from the personnel and deposited at
Battalion H Q, all letters, documents and papers to be taken off every
man of the Raiding Party.
Tokens: - Each man will be supplied with a small token showing which
party he belongs to. These tokens will be collected immediately a man
returns to our lines and will be a means of ascertaining that the man
The report on the raid the following day states that the raid was a
success. But what a success, three Germans killed, one taken prisoner.
Of the raiding party of 60/64 men 3 killed, 19 wounded, 10 missing.
Maybe they should have a section on a monument for those considered 'missing in action' in the local area ?
Mike Morris Toronto Canada
On Tuesday, November 12, 2019 06:33:58 AM EST, Ruth <ruthinbrum(a)gmail.com> wrote:
You could ask the local authority to add their names to the local
memorial. It would be fitting after 100 years.
Ruth (In Brum).
Thank you for remind us about this valuable site and also for alerting us to the television program.
"Martin Briscoe (W10 laptop)" <list(a)mbriscoe.me.uk> wrote:
>This is the best site for any information on WWI.
>There seem to a few articles on identifying bodies and could be more with
>Ancestry DNA, FTDNA (B68554), GEDMatch (A374507)
My pleasure, Penny. Glad you found it interesting. Hard to believe the dogtags were made of cardboard, isn't it?
I wonder if the War Detectives could help you locate your uncles.
Penny Trueman <maudtrueman(a)gmail.com> wrote:
> Thankyou for that website. It is very interesting. I did not know
>(after so many years) for instance that in WW1 British dogtags were
>made of Cardboard!
>I have two uncles who died in WW1: Absolom and Edward Thomas Hall from
>Bromstead near Gnosall in Staffordshire. Absolom at Gallipoli and Ted
>at Bourlon Wood, Cambrai, in France; brothers: Ted was older than
>My late husband and I visited Bourlon Wood - there is a large Canadian
>cemetery. Ted was shot by a sniper (according to family lore - ie. a
>friend reporting back to the family - 'after the armistice' - what I
>can only resume was a somehow agreed (at least on the British side)
>call off in fighting for the day) (ha!)
>Neither has a known grave and neither are listed on the Memorial in Gnosall.
The dot at the end of the URL probably prevented you from opening the page. I should have enclosed the URL in brackets. Sorry!
Alan Cook <alanjohncook(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>Hi Lynne - I couldn't get the link to work.