Hello Wilma,
Thanks for the John Fleming information. My tie to the Fleming line is
through Margaret Jane Fleming. Margaret married Edward L Brown. I have her
birth date as 1833 (17 in 1850 census). I think I might have corresponded
with you before about the
Fleming line??
Have you tried to get a death certificate for your John? Some states have
that information on line. Hopefully both Indiana and Tennessee should have
had death certificates by 1928. Also there might have been a detailed obit
on him?
I am always looking for more information about my Brown line. Edward's
father, Joseph Brown, moved to Porter Co., Indiana between 1830-1840. I
have information concerning many of Jospeh's children but not all.
Kathie
----- Original Message -----
From: "Wilma Fleming Haynes" <gencon(a)harborside.com>
To: <INPORTER-L(a)rootsweb.com>
Sent: Saturday, December 07, 2002 10:40 AM
Subject: [INPORTER-L] an Interview with John FLEMING in 1883 @ age 50y
John FLEMING was born 1 March 1833/4 he was the 2nd white child born
in
Porter county, Indiana - his parents were:
Jacob FLEMING 1809-1870 and Catherine 5)[called Kittery] HESSER 1815-1871
both died in Valparaiso, Porter, Indiana and are buried in the Luther
cemetery there.
John FLEMING was born 1 March 1833/4 at Washington Twp., Porter, Indiana -
he died at age 95 on 8 April 1928 at Calumet City, Lake, Illinois - and is
buried at Shady Grove Cemetery,
Manchester, Coffee, Tennessee - others have said he died in Valparaiso on
that date - Any one know which is correct?
John FLEMING married 2 Nov 1856 at Porter county, Indiana - TO: Joanna
MAXWELL born 10 Sep 1840 at Wayne county, Ohio and died 1902 at
Manchester,
Coffee, Tennessee - she was the d/o Joseph MAXWELL 1812- c 1844 and
Catherine J. CRANE c 1816-1864/5 -
They were parents of 12 children - all born Porter county, Indiana -
This is the interview -
"One of the most interesting lives of Porter county pioneers, was that of
JOHN FLEMING, the second white child born in the area that later became
Porter county. He was born in the Washington Township area on 1 March
1833,
about two months after the birth of Reason BELL, whose birthday was
11
January 1883.
John Fleming lived over 95 years. He died in Valparaiso, on 8 April 1928
alert and well versed in country history, and, until the last few months
able to draw freely on his unusually retentive memory, and to relate
incidents of the first decade of Porter county. he was considered the
final
authority in happenings of the period when thousands of new settlers
arrived
to buy the newly available government land.
The best and most accurate description of the Indians that were here when
the first settlers arrived was given to a newspaperman named Daniel Coy,
who
interviewed JOHN FLEMING in 1883 at the cold Caldwell place in Union
Township shortly after Mr. Fleming's fiftieth birthday. Mr. Coy told the
story in his own words, but fundamentally it was JOHN FLEMING talking."
"My parents (Jacob & Catherine (HESSER) FLEMING) also called Kittury
HEFSER -)
came here in 1832, from Ohio. They settled on the site that later became
Washington Twp., although at first there was no such place, and no town of
Valparaiso, and no Porter county, Michigan City was only one year old and
there were still a lot of stumps in the roads. I was born in LaPorte
county
really, for everything was LaPorte county clear to the Illinois line
in
those days. My birthday was on a Sunday, and it was quiet an event. My
brother was only a little more than a year old at the time. There were
later 13 of us in the family, but I was the outstanding child for I was
supposed to have been the first baby born in the new settlement -- but
that
wasn't right, Reason BELL had been born the previous 11 January.
In later
years most of the squatters changed the dates of various births and
various
arrivals to be 1834, after the families were permitted to occupy
their
selected lands, because the word "Squatter" was a term of deridion applied
by speculators who were having a lot of difficulties dispossessing them -
My
folks never tried to hide the fact that we moved onto the land before
the
sales. They bought a title from an Indian, but after the sales began they
went to Winamac and paid $1.25 an acre more.
There were probably five hundred Indians in Porter County in 1832, maybe
more. There were villages at the place Prattville is now, where about 100
Pottawattomies lived. They had a dancing ground all packed down hard, and
a
cemetery at the general location of the Harmon Beach orchards. There
were
villages at the Indian Ford and Tassinong Grove, and at Bailly's and at
Hebron, and a lot of small groups of wigwams. I remember one at Hungry
Hollow and at Snake Island, and there was a big Indian settlement up at
Jacob Blake's place.
"Of course I can't tell what I actually remember and what was told to me,
but we all grew up with the Indian children, who came to school with us,
that is - the Indian boy's, I can't remember an Indian girl ever going to
the old log school house. The first I remember with positiveness was the
execution of a murderer by hanging at the county seat in the spring of
1838.
In those days there were no state institutions for the criminal nor
for
the
necessary executions, and each county had to take care of their own
administrations of justice. Lots of county people adjusted their
periodical
trips to town to coincide with this unfortunate occurrence. I
remember
the
man, who's name was John Staves, killed a companion for $100.00
and a
horse
and saddle, and his conviction was possible because of the long
nick-marks
on a whittled club handle coincided with he nicks on the criminal's pocked
knife, and because he was found to be in possession of the saddle and
considerable money. I was five years old at the time.
I never saw a real red Indian. They were all more yellow in completion.
I
never saw in all my life a part-naked savage, or one attired in
buckskins
and feathers and paint. Those Indi9ans pictured in the school text books
as being typical in the Colonial days were well over 100 years in the past
when we came to the lake end country. Of course all the Indians here had
blankets and wigwams but their clothes were like those worn by the white
man - shits, pants and black flat-topped felt hats, and even their
blankets
were trader's goods. Of course they were all possessed of Indian
names,
but
mostly they also had French and or English names for they had been
mixed
with both those peoples for over a century. They lived mostly on
Government
payments, as a part of their treaty agreements, although they all did
some
trapping and hunting. They dried skins, especially muskrats and were used
for money at Hummel's store in Prattville and at Solon Robinson's store at
Crown Point and at Provensky's "firewater" store in the northern part of
the
county on an old Sac road.
There were three or four new towns started when i was probably three or
four
years old. I suppose what I 'remember' about them, is what
my folks told
us. People don't remember what happened when they were on that old.
There
was City West, and Liverpool and Manchester and Bialy's Town -
but none
ever
amounted to anything, although City West existed as "new City
West" on the
military road for many years; and there is still a settlement called
Bailytown.
There were never an missionaries in my timed. They are mentioned in all
the
school books as though they were in the Northwest Territory during
this
past
90 years - but the only preacher we ever had a Daddy Comer, who
preached
once in a while at the school houses, and there was an itinerant preacher
who came regularly in mid-summer. His name was Nathan Fairchild.
Like Abraham Lincoln who was 24 years old when I was born, we children did
much of our winter-night reading by the light of the fireplace. There
were
too many of us to afford candles. None of us had much education but
we
all
learned to read. Mother read aloud to us many a blizzardly night
when we
feared the cold and wind. I don't think the pioneers feared many things,
but the darkness, cold and howling blizzard's were fearful to the
children.
The town or settlement called Prattville was started in 1841. I remember
Campbell's shoe store and a repair shop and Mr. Pratt's blacksmith shop,
and
the tannery and the saw ill and Shinabarger's Inn with a smooth
floor
upstairs, well braced for dancing and many a group of covered wagon
travelers who stopped there and had a dance, if they had a fiddler, or
could
get Pop Banner.
My first "outside" money came from the Plank road where I was one of the
laborers at 25 cents a day, and we got paid in slips of paper which was
written in lead pencil and said, "Jno Fleming is hereby paid $3.00 for 12
days work this month. The old plank road company will redeem this order as
soon as there is money on hand." There were hundreds of those orders and
the stores took them just like money, and later on they were all paid up.
The last of the Indians left about 1845, but there were fifteen or twenty
who were allowed to stay on what was called "Reserve Land." after these
lands were gobbled up by speculators, even the reserve Indians departed.
I
think that 'INDIAN CHAPTER" is the most interesting part of
Porter County
History."
the end-
I have another interview taken 35 years later - which I will post.
John FLEMING was the elder brother of my great grandfather Andrew FLEMING
1838- 1928 who md Mary Jane HOLLIS 1836-1911 the d/o Joseph HOLLIS
1805-1863
and Jane GREAR 1811-1876-
Wilma Fleming Haynes
gencon(a)harborside.com
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