Yes, Alice would be Elizabeth Francine but went by Alice - don't know why, she was b
Aug 1868 IN. Not sure how the Alice came in but I do know that although birth records and
most records only show one or two first and middle names the Germans were
"peculiar" in that they would actually have 5 to 10 names -- my husband's
mother had 7 and his mother's sister explained to me that everyone in their family had
this number of names because they got a name of "their own" as well as each
aunt's name and grandmothers' first names were added to their name and if Catholic
sometimes would also get another name at time of one of their ceremonies (can't recall
name of it but was ceremony when they were in teens). So it is possible that Alice was
one of these many names and she just didn't like Francine or Elizabeth or any of the
nicknames for Elizabeth (Liz, Lizzie, Beth etc). Alice is usually NOT a nickname for
Elizabeth OR Francine.
She (Alice aka Elizabeth Francene) apparently went with her husband Stephen Sandage down
to either Texas or Tenn after their marriage, and while there had a daughter, Mary, who is
shown on the 1910 and 1920 with her in Hamilton Co, OH. I never did find Mary on 1900
census and possibly she is with relatives since Alice was a servant in a home there in
Cincinnati, Hamilton Co, OH. On 1910 and 1920 census' Alice is shown as the
sister-in-law of George Ilgenfritz (?sp since going by memory), but haven't figured
out exactly HOW this is -- was she his wife's (or a previous wife's) sister (think
one of his wives was a Bena or Mena, but had died before 1910 census), or was her husband,
Stephen Sandage, the bro-in-law through George's wife(s), etc.? Mary Sandage, her
daughter and niece of George, is shown as being born in Texas on one census and Tenn on
the other one, but Alice shows as Indiana on both.
Did you say you have a picture of her? I surely would love to have a scanned copy of it
if you ever desire to send one to me (can't be sent through this list, though and has
to be sent to jmurphy(a)erinet.com)
Sorry not much help,
Judy M.
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You had written:
Judy,
You mentioned that Alice Knobeloch married into the
Sandage family. I have a photo labeled Ms. Alice
Sandage with a note on the back "Mother's Sister".
The mother referenced is Caroline Knobeloch, daughter
of Frederick Knobeloch. Caroline was my
g-grandmother.
The problem I am having is that the census listings
for Frederick Knobeloch's family do not list an Alice
as a daughter. Later census listings for Alice list
her as being born in Aug. 1868. The only child in the
Frederick Knobeloch family born around that time is
Elizabeth Francine.
Do you, or does anyone else, know if Alice was a
nickname for Elizabeth Francine?
Bob Renner
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