Good question, Brad, but I don't know. Anything that doesn't have a negative
fiscal impact on the State has a better chance of being accepted.
My only fear is that you'll get these loony-tunes out there who are grave
robbers and all they have to say is, "Well I am just trying to restore the
cemetery!" and get off the hook. That is why I like the probing permit idea
better. The permit would collect your personal information so if the probing
was abused they would know who to look for.
I like it going through the DNR-DHPA because, hopefully, Jeannie would be
the one to issue the permits, and she knows who the genuine people are who
are trying to restore these cemeteries. She knows US. I know several on this
list that can't stand the DNR, but for this cemetery thing to work, we have
got to learn to work together.
I agree with Mark Kreps. I too worry about being "caught" doing
"you-know-what". I don't have so much as a speeding ticket. I sure
don't
want to have a misdemeanor on my record. All it would take is some noisy
passer-by to see me probing and trying to extract a headstone out of the
ground for restoration and call the cops on me for graverobbing. Do you
think a cop is educated about the work we do in cemeteries? How is he/she
going to know that I am restoring a cemetery vs. graverobbing? I agree with
Lee though that most of the cops won't care. I make sure I have a signed
permission slip with me from the property owner/township trustee before
working - just in case.
The last thing I want to do is scare anybody about probing. I know this is a
delicate issue, but I thought this list was designed to discuss ideas
between people who care about our cemeteries. I don't care whether you agree
with the idea or not, I am just glad to see discussion to try to make what
we do better.
I also agree with Larry Tippin on the certification program. I know we are
in the minority, but I think we have got to set standards in professional
cemetery restoration. Anybody can go out there right now and claim they are
a professional cemetery restorationist; and they can do irreparable damage
to these one-of-a-kind markers. The thought makes me cringe.
Angela Tielking
----- Original Message -----
From: "Brad Manzenberger" <bradmanz(a)earthlink.net>
To: <INPCRP-L(a)rootsweb.com>
Sent: Saturday, October 23, 2004 12:07 PM
Subject: RE: [INPCRP] probing
How much resistance would we get if we tried to insert the phrase
"cemetery
restoration shall be exempt" into the law.
-----Original Message-----
From: Greg Tielking [mailto:tielking@knightstown.net]
Sent: Saturday, October 23, 2004 10:57 AM
To: INPCRP-L(a)rootsweb.com
Subject: Re: [INPCRP] probing
Jack and Mark,
I was always told that probing is illegal. Period. I was also told that
the
DNR didn't want to know about it if we were probing. I have also
heard
that
getting permission from the township trustee was fine too. I think it
would
be all quite simple if we could just get a permit to probe so that we
are
legal. It takes the guesswork out of it, and then we don't have to worry
about it.
As for saying that "probing for 'artifacts' implies that you want it for
personal use.etc.." that is an interpretation of the law. We either need
legislation or a permit that gives us legal authority to probe - it needs
to
be that cut and dry. So I understand Mark's feelings about
probing in
front
of 100's of people drivng by.
Angela Tielking
----- Original Message -----
From: <Jb502000(a)aol.com>
To: <INPCRP-L(a)rootsweb.com>
Sent: Saturday, October 23, 2004 1:07 AM
Subject: [INPCRP] (no subject)
>
> We have been thru this before. Probing for "Artifacts' implies
that
> you want it for your personal use, or swap meet, or sell to
someone. We
Probe
> down here in Floyd County to find the "Broken Pieces" only to repair a
stone, or
> stones and for no other reason. We were told if we had a letter from the
Twp.
> Trustee to find and repair the stones we were covered legally. That is
> because the Trustee is Responsible for the cemeteries and their
condition
and they
> certainly cant find the time to do the job themselves, so they must
designate a
> responsible party to do it for them.
>
> It's for darn sure If members of the INPCRP cant probe, who
else
> knows enough about the care necessary to do it safely. I pointed out
that
if
> I cant Probe, and have to submit a probing plan every time I work on a
> cemetery, then My volunteering is over and the cemeteries I have found
can
go back
> to their former state. You should know how to be careful probing, and
digging
> around the piece, or pieces so as not to further damage them. If you
don't
> know, then you should accompany someone from the INPCRP and
learn.
>
> I probed for broken pieces in California and started when I came
back
> to Indiana late 1995. I feel I know how by now. Its for darn sure just
anyone
> cant take a probe and a shovel out and start. They need guidance. You
can
do
> as you wish about "Probing," I don't know how much you know about it.
I
have
> stopped people who came out and was going to help me. I told them that
if
they
> wanted to learn, work with me and help until I was satisfied they knew
what
> they were doing.
> Some wont agree with me, but one thing is for sure, you cant just start.
> Really, the Legislature needs more protection laws for our cemeteries
than
just
> "Probing".
>
> Jack E. Briles Sr.
> Floyd Co. Cord. INPCRP
> Po Box 444
> New Albany, In 47151-0444
>
>
>
>
> IC 14-21-1-26
> Disturbance of grounds for purpose of discovering artifacts or burial
> objects
> Sec. 26. (a) A person who disturbs the ground for the purpose of
discovering
> artifacts or burial objects must do so in accordance with a plan
approved
by
> the department under section 25 of this chapter or under IC 14-3-3.4-14
> (before its repeal).
> (b) A person who recklessly, knowingly, or intentionally violates this
> section commits a Class A misdemeanor.
> As added by P.L.1-1995, SEC.14.
>
>
>
>
> Jack
>
>
> ==== INPCRP Mailing List ====
> This list is for discussion of topics related to the Indiana Pioneer
> Cemeteries Restoration Project only.
> Please do not send genealogical queries through this list. The surname
and geographic Mailing Lists on Rootsweb at
http://lists.rootsweb.com are
a
better venue.
> Thank you.
>
==== INPCRP Mailing List ====
INPCRP State Coordinator: Brad Manzenberger < bradmanz(a)earthlink.net >
http://www.inpcrp.org
==== INPCRP Mailing List ====
"Show me your cemeteries, and I will tell you what kind of people you
have."
Benjamin Franklin (1706 - 1790)