Theresa,
On a few of our old cemeteries in Gibson County we have turned up some
records in the old deed books where cemeteries and "family burying grounds"
were actually deeded to the county. I would think that this is not unique
to Gibson County and wondering if the counties in the State may own more
cemeteries than they think? I bring this up because of Kyle's comment on
whether or not a commission would be legally entitled to 'own' a
cemetery. They may already own more than they think. These old deeds date
between 1850 - 1885, and I wonder if there was a law around 1850 allowing
counties to do this, thus the 1850 cut-off date in the current law? I do
not think County ownership of cemeteries would be a problem for the county,
but I think Kyle is correct in that if the county "owns" the cemetery, the
township by law cannot expend funds on it, and will create problems where
there is an unfunded cemetery commission.
On surveying, we have ran into two problems having cemeteries surveyed:
1. Many of these cemeteries are much smaller than they were 150 years
ago. When you cannot determine where graves may have been, do you leave a
"buffer" around the existing known cemetery? We have one in the middle of
a field that is about 25' square, but contains enough stones to be 50'
square or larger. Since the land around it has been plowed and farmed for
years there is no way to tell what he original size was. How much to
survey off is guesswork, so what happens if the farmer says 39 of his 40
acres was the original cemetery so he will not have to pay taxes on it?
2. On some, we have found demensions in deeds and elsewhere, but give no
reference point for the surveyor to start. On one I am working on now, the
deed excepts "The Family Burying ground measuring Two rods by Five rods".
(33' X 82 1/2') But it does not say where in the deed for the 40 acres
that the "burying ground" is! Only one stone is remaining, which has been
removed to a fence row, so there are no indicators where the two rod by
five rod plot was. There is no possible way to have a legal survey done,
so the farmer cannot have his cemetery surveyed for his tax exemption.
I've been reading all the updates and comments, but have not had any spare
time to get involved. I think you all are doing a great job, hopefully
some law changes for the better will result!
Ernie
At 08:46 AM 10/31/2003 -0800, you wrote:
Kyle,
Thanks for your support & comments. We are going
to be hashing through these ideas in the next several
weeks. John Molitor will be looking at the legal
issues,& Rep. Tom Saunders at what the legislature
will be willing to do.
This is a learning process for many of us. I was
not aware that there are County Surveyors who do not
survey. Somehow we need to get around the glitch in
the law, because no one is going to pay for a survey
only to get a few dollars back as a tax credit.
Our intent is to clarify the duties of the
counties, and the townships. We also want to encourage
Co. Commissioners to establish Co. cemetery
commissions, even if they are unfunded. The cemetery
commissions focus is to protect & care for the pioneer
cemeteries, even if the trustees are not doing their
jobs.
Any comments Angela, Bud, Donna, Eddie, Cris,
Mark,?
Theresa
--- KidClerk(a)aol.com wrote:
> In a message dated 10/30/2003 9:09:45 PM Central
> Standard Time,
> tres257(a)yahoo.com writes:
>
> > Creating a means for the
> > property owner to gift a Co. Cemetery Commission
> with
> > a cemetery, would allow the Co. Surveyor to do the
> > survey and the property owner to receive a tax
> credit.
> >
>
> It sounds to me like you guys have done an excellent
> job putting together a
> cross section of issues as a 'starting point' and
> have hit most of the most
> important ones for our legislators to act on first.
> Again I just want to thank
> you for what you're doing on the behalf of all of us
> who have been unable to
> assist. I would like to thank you for including the
> date change to accommodate
> us 'newcomers' up here in Newton County as well.
>
> I just want to open a little discussion of the item
> I have copied above.
> First of all, because of the make-up of the county
> cemetery commission, I'm not
> sure the cemetery commission would be legally
> entitled to 'own' a cemetery and
> I'm not sure the county commissioners would want
> their cemetery commissions
> going out accepting property on behalf of the
> county, so we might want to
> discuss this point some more. What if the cemetery
> commission were to be unfunded
> or disbanded or inactive after accepting such a
> gift? Then we're back where we
> started.
>
> Secondly, many county surveyors do not survey....not
> even licensed. It's an
> elected position with no technical requirements, so
> there would still be the
> possibility of needing a private survey and, again,
> incurring costs against the
> county, which might not go over very well with a
> county council and
> commissioners.
>
> I'm just throwing these points out for discussion.
> I just don't think
> cemetery commissions are legally entitled to own a
> cemetery, and that goes against
> the concept of what a commission is for. It would
> be hard to tell a township
> trustee that "we're only here to supplement what you
> do" when over in the next
> section of the township we end up being the owners
> of a pioneer cemetery.
> Then we will be in a position of competition (for
> money to keep up the cemetery)
> and not supplementing one another's work.
>
> Just opening this up for more discussion.
>
> Keep up the great work everyone....
>
> Kyle D. Conrad
>
>
>
> ==== INPCRP Mailing List ====
> Scott Satterthwaite < ssattert(a)localnet.com > is the
> INPCRP State Coordinator. Feel free to contact him
> directly regarding questions or comments you may
> have about the INPCRP.
>
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