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In trying to define a Pioneer Cemetry, on the list, I mostly see what
defines a Pioneer discussed instead of the Cemetery they might be interred
within. I realize that the two are intertwined, but there seem to be fewer
Cemeteries than Pioneers so in my mind I think establishing the dates of the
Cemetery would be important. If one were to find a burial from lets say 1957
interred within the Pioneer Cemetery, would we just let the weeds grow
there? By the same token if we found that a Cemetery was established in 1957
to contain the reburials of a pioneer Cemetery established in 1847, that was
moved due to whatever, would we just consider that a modern Cemetery and not
keep it up? There will have to be exceptions to any provisions and there has
to be a way that exceptions are added later as they will come up. Even the
Indiana Pioneers Society have made revisions. They used to have (a few years
ago)each county defined by date and some did not qualify due to their
development dates. They now have a broader rule and fewer exceptions.
If exceptions are made in the future, as I am sure they will, who will make
them? Since the state is not defining Pioneer Cemeteries, I am not sure they
will be making exceptions either.
I throw these thoughts out there to be considered in the discussion. I can
define my own family as Pioneers through documentation, but others may not
be able to, for some the Cemetery may be their only clue that there relative
was even in Indiana.
Don Huffman
The story of a boater finding stones in White River north of Broad Ripple
has been solved.
Story will appear in the paper on Wednesday. www.indystar.com
<http://www.indystar.com/> Over 50 years ago a
homeowner along the river purchased from a stone cutter a number of stones
that were
mistakes, and couldn't be used. He used them to shore up his bank along
river.Bob
This is for Ernie and Connie...........
I would like to know more about those old cemeteries you discussed thta are in Gibson County
Is there a? book somewhere?? first I ever knew...how intriguing
Marilynn in NM
________________________________________________________________________
Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com
Ernie,
More good points. It seems that we might be able to sneak up on a fair
definition if we continue to consider how the criteria ultimately affects
cemeteries in all parts of Indiana. Looking forward to hearing from all
parts.
Regards,
Rich Green
Historic Archaeological Research
4338 Hadley Court
West Lafayette, IN 47906
Office: (765) 464-8735
Mobile: (765) 427-4082
www.har-indy.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ernie & Connie Lasley" <elasley(a)sigecom.net>
To: <inpcrp(a)rootsweb.com>
Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2007 11:39 AM
Subject: Re: [INPCRP] Pioneer Cemetery Defintion
> Rich,
>
> I agree that the date can be somewhat of a problem, but think your
> January 1, 1851 date should include most if not all Pioneers. I
> would suggest that a paragraph be added that other historic
> documentation could also be used to qualify a person or cemetery if
> the date did not fit. I am not creative enough to figure out just
> how to word it, I'll leave that up to you. In Gibson County we have
> some old graves and cemeteries consisting of workers and/or families
> who were constructing the Wabash and Erie Canal. The section
> through Gibson County was completed 1851 - 1853, just after your
> date. I also have a grave site in the county consisting of Irish
> immigrant railroad workers, dating around 1855. These people may
> not fit the definition of "Pioneer", but there is no one else to care
> for them except our "Pioneer Cemeteries" group. Constructing major
> transportation routes through here should at least deserve honorable
> mention.
>
> Ernie
>
> At 08:03 AM 08/28/2007, you wrote:
>>To the List:
>>
>>Since we left off here the other day, not much has been added to the
>>discussion regarding an INPCRP definition of a pioneer cemetery. I'll go
>>ahead and provide a place to start with the draft definition below;
>>however,
>>I'd like to qualify the use of the date.
>>
>>Correct me if I'm wrong but it seems that the year 1850 has been
>>previously
>>used to define an Indiana pioneer? I'm uncertain how this date came to
>>pass, but I'll go ahead and use January 1, 1851 in the draft definition so
>>as to include the entire year of 1850. It should be noted that this is
>>not
>>the date of death or burial, but rather a date of residency or birth in
>>the
>>state of Indiana. This should take into account all who participated in
>>"pioneering" the state of Indiana, but let's go ahead and discuss this
>>further to be sure there is a consensus.
>>------------------------------------------------
>>Draft Definition of an Indiana Pioneer Cemetery: ( a place to start)
>>
>>Persons who resided in or were born in the state of Indiana prior to
>>January
>>1, 1851 shall be considered Indiana pioneers. The term "pioneer" cemetery
>>shall refer to any cemetery or burial ground, whether on public or private
>>land, that includes the graves sites of Indiana pioneers.
>>------------------------------------------------
>>
>>There are probably problems with the above definition, or for that matter
>>with any simplified definition, so let's kick this around some and see if
>>we
>>can't improve it while endeavoring to keep it as simply stated as is
>>possible.
>>
>>One problem that comes to mind: How can residency prior to 1851 be
>>expeditiously determined when studying a cemetery? A researcher can't
>>really
>>assume that all gravesites meeting the date criteria also suggest
>>residency
>>before 1850? Particularly if the date of death is post 1851. It seems to
>>me that there will have to be additional criteria in the cemetery
>>definition
>>that simplifies the process of determining Indiana Pioneer Cemetery
>>status.
>>It may be that some discussion about the number of potential pioneer
>>interments within a cemetery should be a requirement? Or perhaps, a
>>percentage of the total? I don't pretend to know, let's discuss it.
>>
>>Thanks in advance to all who participate in the discussion.
>>
>>Best Regards,
>>
>>Rich Green
>>Historic Archaeological Research
>>4338 Hadley Court
>>West Lafayette, IN 47906
>>Office: (765) 464-8735
>>Mobile: (765) 427-4082
>>www.har-indy.com
>>
>>
>>----- Original Message -----
>>From: "Bob Alloway" <ralloway(a)earthlink.net>
>>To: <inpcrp(a)rootsweb.com>
>>Sent: Sunday, August 26, 2007 7:06 PM
>>Subject: [INPCRP] PIONEER CEMETERY DEFINITION
>>
>>
>> >I asked the president of the Society of Indiana Pioneers what defines a
>> >pioneer cemetery and this is her reply:
>> >
>> > Hi Bob!
>> >
>> >This is an interesting question, and I don't think I have the answer.
>> >From our perspective, a qualifying pioneer has to have entered the state
>> >by
>> >1840 or
>> >1850, but didn't have to be a land owner. Also, he/she obviously
>> >wouldn't
>> >have
>> >had to have been dead by those dates, so could have been buried much
>> >later.
>> >
>> >Particularly infants who came into the state by 1840, could have been
>> >buried
>> >into the early 1900's.
>> >
>> >You have raised an interesting question, but I do agree with you that
>> >burial
>> > by 1850 seems a little early to cut off the Pioneer graveyard
>> > definition.
>>
>> >Good luck!
>> >
>> >Joan
>> This list is for sharing pioneer cemetery questions, ideas and
>> restoration projects.
>>-------------------------------
>>To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to
>>INPCRP-request(a)rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the
>>quotes in the subject and the body of the message
>
> This list is for sharing pioneer cemetery questions, ideas and restoration
> projects.
> -------------------------------
> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to
> INPCRP-request(a)rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes
> in the subject and the body of the message
Thanks for picking up the ball and running with it. Like you, I'm troubled
with using a date as a qualifier, but am unsure how else it should be
handled. Here's why:
--------------------
It depends on what area of the state you're talking about. Where I live in St. Joseph Co., it wasn't settled until the 1840's when my gggrandparents and others moved in and built relations with Chief Rum and his tribe. In Miami Co., where another set of my gggrandparents settled an area in 1867 called the Weasaw Settlement.
The northern part of Indiana was settled later than the southern part (Ohio Valley). People really didn't start settling Northcentral Indiana until the 1830's and the area really exploded into settlements after the Civil War.
Again, it depends on the area. Its going to be difficult to set a date when our state was settled at diferent times over a 70 year period, 1800-1870. I would consider this to be the "pioneer period".
Just my 2 cents. :-)
Rick B
Rich & Others;
Are we discussing the cemeteries time of establishment, or trying to
determine who is considered a pioneer, and when?
I would assume any cemetery that was established in Indiana prior to 1900
would most likely have pioneers buried therein.
The majority of the cemeteries in Henry county I have researched have land
deeds giving the year of establishment.
How would we determine if a paupers' asylum cemetery could be called a
pioneer cemetery, I'm sure they were pioneers like every other pioneer.
Also the veteran's cemeteries, the majority of the early civil war veterans
would be considered "pioneers."
In order for a cemetery to be called a "pioneer" cemetery do we really need
a date. If so let's set it to include all of those who settled and tamed
this once vast forest called Indiana.
My own personal opinion.
UEB
WWW.HCGS.NET
----- Original Message -----
From: <KidClerk(a)aol.com>
To: <inpcrp(a)rootsweb.com>
Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2007 8:46 AM
Subject: Re: [INPCRP] Pioneer Cemetery Defintion
>
> Rich:
>
> Thanks for picking up the ball and running with it. Like you, I'm
> troubled
> with using a date as a qualifier, but am unsure how else it should be
> handled. Here's why:
>
> My mother's ancestors settled in Henry and Wayne counties in the early
> 1820's. My father's in Montgomery County about the same time. There
> were
> pioneers living in these areas prior to my family's settlement. By the
> time 1850
> rolled around, these areas had been inhabited for over 30 years. Is
> someone
> who moved into a county that had been settled for over 30 years still
> considered a pioneer?
>
> Now move north to Newton County. The first white child was born here in
> 1832, the county organized in 1860. It stands to reason that there will
> be
> fewer pioneers who meet this criteria because the number of years of
> qualification is shorter. (not to mention our population was never as
> large). Are people
> that settled here in 1852 not pioneers? It's within 20 years of the
> first
> settlers and we consider people who moved into Henry County thirty years
> after
> the first settlement pioneers...???
>
> Rich knows me well enough from this list to know I'm not being critical of
> his idea...he's seeking input, so those of you reading this, please don't
> think
> I'm being critical. To some of you, this isn't an issue with you and you
> may not understand why it's such a big deal. Maybe it's not..and maybe
> that's
> why we've never been able to nail down a definition. But since it does
> come
> up and could possibly be an issue in the future, why not address it once
> and
> for all. I do agree with Rich that the definition should hinge on
> residency
> dates and not death or burial dates.
>
> So....what's my solution? Well, like Rich, I'm going to throw out an
> idea
> that we use settlement or residency dates to establish the definition of a
> pioneer. Yes, to determine if a cemetery includes the burial of pioneers
> could
> take a little more effort, but could also result in previously non-pioneer
> cemeteries now being considered pioneer burial grounds.
>
> I'm proposing following the standards set forth by the Society of Indiana
> Pioneers in establishing the dates of pioneers. By remaining consistent
> with
> this organization, we will be less likely to run into conflicting
> definitions
> of who really is a pioneer.
>
> Here is how the Society establishes pioneer criteria...
>
> Regular Membership is open to men and women eighteen (18) years of age or
> older, who prove one or more of his or her ancestors meets the
> qualifications
> of an Indiana Pioneer. An Indiana Pioneer is one who lived within the
> present
> boundary of an Indiana county on or before December 31, 1840, unless that
> county is listed in the following chart, in which case the Pioneer must
> have
> lived within the present boundary of that county on or before December 31
> of the
> year shown.
> Howard 1845 Lake 1845 Newton 1855 Starke 1850 Tipton
> 1845
>
>
> Obviously, the society recognizes that some counties are younger than the
> majority of the state, and have made provisions accordingly. I'm sure
> these
> dates were not picked randomly, and therefore, should be worthy of our
> consideration. In order to be fair and equitable to all of our pioneers,
> I think
> these dates have merit.
>
> Thanks again Rich for starting the discussion. Hopefully more will weigh
> in
> with their ideas. That's what this list is for...
>
> Kyle D. Conrad
> Brook, IN
>
> In a message dated 08/28/2007 7:05:35 A.M. Central Daylight Time,
> rgreen(a)insightbb.com writes:
>
> To the List:
>
> Since we left off here the other day, not much has been added to the
> discussion regarding an INPCRP definition of a pioneer cemetery. I'll go
> ahead and provide a place to start with the draft definition below;
> however,
> I'd like to qualify the use of the date.
>
> Correct me if I'm wrong but it seems that the year 1850 has been
> previously
> used to define an Indiana pioneer? I'm uncertain how this date came to
> pass, but I'll go ahead and use January 1, 1851 in the draft definition
> so
> as to include the entire year of 1850. It should be noted that this is
> not
> the date of death or burial, but rather a date of residency or birth in
> the
> state of Indiana. This should take into account all who participated in
> "pioneering" the state of Indiana, but let's go ahead and discuss this
> further to be sure there is a consensus.
> ------------------------------------------------
> Draft Definition of an Indiana Pioneer Cemetery: ( a place to start)
>
> Persons who resided in or were born in the state of Indiana prior to
> January
> 1, 1851 shall be considered Indiana pioneers. The term "pioneer" cemetery
> shall refer to any cemetery or burial ground, whether on public or private
> land, that includes the graves sites of Indiana pioneers.
> ------------------------------------------------
>
> There are probably problems with the above definition, or for that matter
> with any simplified definition, so let's kick this around some and see if
> we
> can't improve it while endeavoring to keep it as simply stated as is
> possible.
>
> One problem that comes to mind: How can residency prior to 1851 be
> expeditiously determined when studying a cemetery? A researcher can't
> really
> assume that all gravesites meeting the date criteria also suggest
> residency
> before 1850? Particularly if the date of death is post 1851. It seems
> to
> me that there will have to be additional criteria in the cemetery
> definition
> that simplifies the process of determining Indiana Pioneer Cemetery
> status.
> It may be that some discussion about the number of potential pioneer
> interments within a cemetery should be a requirement? Or perhaps, a
> percentage of the total? I don't pretend to know, let's discuss it.
>
> Thanks in advance to all who participate in the discussion.
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Rich Green
> Historic Archaeological Research
> 4338 Hadley Court
> West Lafayette, IN 47906
> Office: (765) 464-8735
> Mobile: (765) 427-4082
> www.har-indy.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL
> at
> http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour
> This list is for sharing pioneer cemetery questions, ideas and restoration
> projects.
> -------------------------------
> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to
> INPCRP-request(a)rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes
> in the subject and the body of the message
>
Rich,
I agree that the date can be somewhat of a problem, but think your
January 1, 1851 date should include most if not all Pioneers. I
would suggest that a paragraph be added that other historic
documentation could also be used to qualify a person or cemetery if
the date did not fit. I am not creative enough to figure out just
how to word it, I'll leave that up to you. In Gibson County we have
some old graves and cemeteries consisting of workers and/or families
who were constructing the Wabash and Erie Canal. The section
through Gibson County was completed 1851 - 1853, just after your
date. I also have a grave site in the county consisting of Irish
immigrant railroad workers, dating around 1855. These people may
not fit the definition of "Pioneer", but there is no one else to care
for them except our "Pioneer Cemeteries" group. Constructing major
transportation routes through here should at least deserve honorable mention.
Ernie
At 08:03 AM 08/28/2007, you wrote:
>To the List:
>
>Since we left off here the other day, not much has been added to the
>discussion regarding an INPCRP definition of a pioneer cemetery. I'll go
>ahead and provide a place to start with the draft definition below; however,
>I'd like to qualify the use of the date.
>
>Correct me if I'm wrong but it seems that the year 1850 has been previously
>used to define an Indiana pioneer? I'm uncertain how this date came to
>pass, but I'll go ahead and use January 1, 1851 in the draft definition so
>as to include the entire year of 1850. It should be noted that this is not
>the date of death or burial, but rather a date of residency or birth in the
>state of Indiana. This should take into account all who participated in
>"pioneering" the state of Indiana, but let's go ahead and discuss this
>further to be sure there is a consensus.
>------------------------------------------------
>Draft Definition of an Indiana Pioneer Cemetery: ( a place to start)
>
>Persons who resided in or were born in the state of Indiana prior to January
>1, 1851 shall be considered Indiana pioneers. The term "pioneer" cemetery
>shall refer to any cemetery or burial ground, whether on public or private
>land, that includes the graves sites of Indiana pioneers.
>------------------------------------------------
>
>There are probably problems with the above definition, or for that matter
>with any simplified definition, so let's kick this around some and see if we
>can't improve it while endeavoring to keep it as simply stated as is
>possible.
>
>One problem that comes to mind: How can residency prior to 1851 be
>expeditiously determined when studying a cemetery? A researcher can't really
>assume that all gravesites meeting the date criteria also suggest residency
>before 1850? Particularly if the date of death is post 1851. It seems to
>me that there will have to be additional criteria in the cemetery definition
>that simplifies the process of determining Indiana Pioneer Cemetery status.
>It may be that some discussion about the number of potential pioneer
>interments within a cemetery should be a requirement? Or perhaps, a
>percentage of the total? I don't pretend to know, let's discuss it.
>
>Thanks in advance to all who participate in the discussion.
>
>Best Regards,
>
>Rich Green
>Historic Archaeological Research
>4338 Hadley Court
>West Lafayette, IN 47906
>Office: (765) 464-8735
>Mobile: (765) 427-4082
>www.har-indy.com
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Bob Alloway" <ralloway(a)earthlink.net>
>To: <inpcrp(a)rootsweb.com>
>Sent: Sunday, August 26, 2007 7:06 PM
>Subject: [INPCRP] PIONEER CEMETERY DEFINITION
>
>
> >I asked the president of the Society of Indiana Pioneers what defines a
> >pioneer cemetery and this is her reply:
> >
> > Hi Bob!
> >
> >This is an interesting question, and I don't think I have the answer.
> >From our perspective, a qualifying pioneer has to have entered the state by
> >1840 or
> >1850, but didn't have to be a land owner. Also, he/she obviously wouldn't
> >have
> >had to have been dead by those dates, so could have been buried much later.
> >
> >Particularly infants who came into the state by 1840, could have been
> >buried
> >into the early 1900's.
> >
> >You have raised an interesting question, but I do agree with you that
> >burial
> > by 1850 seems a little early to cut off the Pioneer graveyard definition.
>
> >Good luck!
> >
> >Joan
> This list is for sharing pioneer cemetery questions, ideas and
> restoration projects.
>-------------------------------
>To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to
>INPCRP-request(a)rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the
>quotes in the subject and the body of the message
The State of Iowa defines a Pioneer Cemetery as one that has had 6 or less
burials in the past 50 years. That would be a good indicator that things
have slowed way down, because of it's status. Bob
Rich:
There are stones in the Oaktown, Indiana cemetery for Revolutionary War and
War of 1812 Veterans with death dates that predate 1850 Some, by as much as
32 years. Yet, the cemetery was not even founded nor even deeded from the
previous owner as a cemetery until 1855. How you might ask?
Well, several years ago the stones, not the remains, in question were moved
from Mariah Creek Baptist Church Cemetery some 15 miles away and placed
there by a descendant in fear that they would be subject to erosion from the
creek. As you know, this is well documented and Capt. Charles Polk, in fact,
has two seperate grave sites with stones. Only one body.
My question is ....... can you really determine which cemeteries are hold
pioneers by the stones in question. Most pioneers stones, unless well
preserved, are gone due to age anyway, i.e. rotten wood, vandalism,
overgrowth, subsidence or whatever.
Dubois and Gibson county have certain cemeteries formed after 1850 with the
actual remains of German ancestors that died before 1850 which were actually
relocated there from out east, i.e., PA and MD, some as recent as 1955. Does
that make any of them a Pioneer Cemetery?
My 4th great-grandfather owned property in the State of Indiana prior to
1850, by way of a Land Grant and as far as I know, never stepped foot in the
State of Indiana.
My other 3rd great-grandfather received a Land Grant well after 1855 from
the Federal Government. He came from North Carolina in a covered wagon,
cleared and settled the land, lost his wife and 3 children to sickness and
built a log cabin in 1866 in the wilderness. Isn't that a pioneer?
So, I'll leave it at that for discussion as you wished.
Jon Andrews
>From: "Rich Green" <rgreen(a)insightbb.com>
>Reply-To: inpcrp(a)rootsweb.com
>To: <inpcrp(a)rootsweb.com>
>Subject: Re: [INPCRP] Pioneer Cemetery Defintion
>One problem that comes to mind: How can residency prior to 1851 be
>expeditiously determined when studying a cemetery? A researcher can't
>really
>assume that all gravesites meeting the date criteria also suggest residency
>before 1850? Thanks in advance to all who participate in the discussion.
_________________________________________________________________
A new home for Mom, no cleanup required. All starts here.
http://www.reallivemoms.com?ocid=TXT_TAGHM&loc=us
Great response Kyle. This is just the kind of discussion necessary to
arrive at a logical definition.
Hope more will chime in!
Best Regards,
Rich Green
Historic Archaeological Research
4338 Hadley Court
West Lafayette, IN 47906
Office: (765) 464-8735
Mobile: (765) 427-4082
www.har-indy.com
----- Original Message -----
From: <KidClerk(a)aol.com>
To: <inpcrp(a)rootsweb.com>
Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2007 9:46 AM
Subject: Re: [INPCRP] Pioneer Cemetery Defintion
>
> Rich:
>
> Thanks for picking up the ball and running with it. Like you, I'm
> troubled
> with using a date as a qualifier, but am unsure how else it should be
> handled. Here's why:
>
> My mother's ancestors settled in Henry and Wayne counties in the early
> 1820's. My father's in Montgomery County about the same time. There
> were
> pioneers living in these areas prior to my family's settlement. By the
> time 1850
> rolled around, these areas had been inhabited for over 30 years. Is
> someone
> who moved into a county that had been settled for over 30 years still
> considered a pioneer?
>
> Now move north to Newton County. The first white child was born here in
> 1832, the county organized in 1860. It stands to reason that there will
> be
> fewer pioneers who meet this criteria because the number of years of
> qualification is shorter. (not to mention our population was never as
> large). Are people
> that settled here in 1852 not pioneers? It's within 20 years of the
> first
> settlers and we consider people who moved into Henry County thirty years
> after
> the first settlement pioneers...???
>
> Rich knows me well enough from this list to know I'm not being critical of
> his idea...he's seeking input, so those of you reading this, please don't
> think
> I'm being critical. To some of you, this isn't an issue with you and you
> may not understand why it's such a big deal. Maybe it's not..and maybe
> that's
> why we've never been able to nail down a definition. But since it does
> come
> up and could possibly be an issue in the future, why not address it once
> and
> for all. I do agree with Rich that the definition should hinge on
> residency
> dates and not death or burial dates.
>
> So....what's my solution? Well, like Rich, I'm going to throw out an
> idea
> that we use settlement or residency dates to establish the definition of a
> pioneer. Yes, to determine if a cemetery includes the burial of pioneers
> could
> take a little more effort, but could also result in previously non-pioneer
> cemeteries now being considered pioneer burial grounds.
>
> I'm proposing following the standards set forth by the Society of Indiana
> Pioneers in establishing the dates of pioneers. By remaining consistent
> with
> this organization, we will be less likely to run into conflicting
> definitions
> of who really is a pioneer.
>
> Here is how the Society establishes pioneer criteria...
>
> Regular Membership is open to men and women eighteen (18) years of age or
> older, who prove one or more of his or her ancestors meets the
> qualifications
> of an Indiana Pioneer. An Indiana Pioneer is one who lived within the
> present
> boundary of an Indiana county on or before December 31, 1840, unless that
> county is listed in the following chart, in which case the Pioneer must
> have
> lived within the present boundary of that county on or before December 31
> of the
> year shown.
> Howard 1845 Lake 1845 Newton 1855 Starke 1850 Tipton
> 1845
>
>
> Obviously, the society recognizes that some counties are younger than the
> majority of the state, and have made provisions accordingly. I'm sure
> these
> dates were not picked randomly, and therefore, should be worthy of our
> consideration. In order to be fair and equitable to all of our pioneers,
> I think
> these dates have merit.
>
> Thanks again Rich for starting the discussion. Hopefully more will weigh
> in
> with their ideas. That's what this list is for...
>
> Kyle D. Conrad
> Brook, IN
>
> In a message dated 08/28/2007 7:05:35 A.M. Central Daylight Time,
> rgreen(a)insightbb.com writes:
>
> To the List:
>
> Since we left off here the other day, not much has been added to the
> discussion regarding an INPCRP definition of a pioneer cemetery. I'll go
> ahead and provide a place to start with the draft definition below;
> however,
> I'd like to qualify the use of the date.
>
> Correct me if I'm wrong but it seems that the year 1850 has been
> previously
> used to define an Indiana pioneer? I'm uncertain how this date came to
> pass, but I'll go ahead and use January 1, 1851 in the draft definition
> so
> as to include the entire year of 1850. It should be noted that this is
> not
> the date of death or burial, but rather a date of residency or birth in
> the
> state of Indiana. This should take into account all who participated in
> "pioneering" the state of Indiana, but let's go ahead and discuss this
> further to be sure there is a consensus.
> ------------------------------------------------
> Draft Definition of an Indiana Pioneer Cemetery: ( a place to start)
>
> Persons who resided in or were born in the state of Indiana prior to
> January
> 1, 1851 shall be considered Indiana pioneers. The term "pioneer" cemetery
> shall refer to any cemetery or burial ground, whether on public or private
> land, that includes the graves sites of Indiana pioneers.
> ------------------------------------------------
>
> There are probably problems with the above definition, or for that matter
> with any simplified definition, so let's kick this around some and see if
> we
> can't improve it while endeavoring to keep it as simply stated as is
> possible.
>
> One problem that comes to mind: How can residency prior to 1851 be
> expeditiously determined when studying a cemetery? A researcher can't
> really
> assume that all gravesites meeting the date criteria also suggest
> residency
> before 1850? Particularly if the date of death is post 1851. It seems
> to
> me that there will have to be additional criteria in the cemetery
> definition
> that simplifies the process of determining Indiana Pioneer Cemetery
> status.
> It may be that some discussion about the number of potential pioneer
> interments within a cemetery should be a requirement? Or perhaps, a
> percentage of the total? I don't pretend to know, let's discuss it.
>
> Thanks in advance to all who participate in the discussion.
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Rich Green
> Historic Archaeological Research
> 4338 Hadley Court
> West Lafayette, IN 47906
> Office: (765) 464-8735
> Mobile: (765) 427-4082
> www.har-indy.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL
> at
> http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour
> This list is for sharing pioneer cemetery questions, ideas and restoration
> projects.
> -------------------------------
> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to
> INPCRP-request(a)rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes
> in the subject and the body of the message
Rich:
Thanks for picking up the ball and running with it. Like you, I'm troubled
with using a date as a qualifier, but am unsure how else it should be
handled. Here's why:
My mother's ancestors settled in Henry and Wayne counties in the early
1820's. My father's in Montgomery County about the same time. There were
pioneers living in these areas prior to my family's settlement. By the time 1850
rolled around, these areas had been inhabited for over 30 years. Is someone
who moved into a county that had been settled for over 30 years still
considered a pioneer?
Now move north to Newton County. The first white child was born here in
1832, the county organized in 1860. It stands to reason that there will be
fewer pioneers who meet this criteria because the number of years of
qualification is shorter. (not to mention our population was never as large). Are people
that settled here in 1852 not pioneers? It's within 20 years of the first
settlers and we consider people who moved into Henry County thirty years after
the first settlement pioneers...???
Rich knows me well enough from this list to know I'm not being critical of
his idea...he's seeking input, so those of you reading this, please don't think
I'm being critical. To some of you, this isn't an issue with you and you
may not understand why it's such a big deal. Maybe it's not..and maybe that's
why we've never been able to nail down a definition. But since it does come
up and could possibly be an issue in the future, why not address it once and
for all. I do agree with Rich that the definition should hinge on residency
dates and not death or burial dates.
So....what's my solution? Well, like Rich, I'm going to throw out an idea
that we use settlement or residency dates to establish the definition of a
pioneer. Yes, to determine if a cemetery includes the burial of pioneers could
take a little more effort, but could also result in previously non-pioneer
cemeteries now being considered pioneer burial grounds.
I'm proposing following the standards set forth by the Society of Indiana
Pioneers in establishing the dates of pioneers. By remaining consistent with
this organization, we will be less likely to run into conflicting definitions
of who really is a pioneer.
Here is how the Society establishes pioneer criteria...
Regular Membership is open to men and women eighteen (18) years of age or
older, who prove one or more of his or her ancestors meets the qualifications
of an Indiana Pioneer. An Indiana Pioneer is one who lived within the present
boundary of an Indiana county on or before December 31, 1840, unless that
county is listed in the following chart, in which case the Pioneer must have
lived within the present boundary of that county on or before December 31 of the
year shown.
Howard 1845 Lake 1845 Newton 1855 Starke 1850 Tipton
1845
Obviously, the society recognizes that some counties are younger than the
majority of the state, and have made provisions accordingly. I'm sure these
dates were not picked randomly, and therefore, should be worthy of our
consideration. In order to be fair and equitable to all of our pioneers, I think
these dates have merit.
Thanks again Rich for starting the discussion. Hopefully more will weigh in
with their ideas. That's what this list is for...
Kyle D. Conrad
Brook, IN
In a message dated 08/28/2007 7:05:35 A.M. Central Daylight Time,
rgreen(a)insightbb.com writes:
To the List:
Since we left off here the other day, not much has been added to the
discussion regarding an INPCRP definition of a pioneer cemetery. I'll go
ahead and provide a place to start with the draft definition below; however,
I'd like to qualify the use of the date.
Correct me if I'm wrong but it seems that the year 1850 has been previously
used to define an Indiana pioneer? I'm uncertain how this date came to
pass, but I'll go ahead and use January 1, 1851 in the draft definition so
as to include the entire year of 1850. It should be noted that this is not
the date of death or burial, but rather a date of residency or birth in the
state of Indiana. This should take into account all who participated in
"pioneering" the state of Indiana, but let's go ahead and discuss this
further to be sure there is a consensus.
------------------------------------------------
Draft Definition of an Indiana Pioneer Cemetery: ( a place to start)
Persons who resided in or were born in the state of Indiana prior to January
1, 1851 shall be considered Indiana pioneers. The term "pioneer" cemetery
shall refer to any cemetery or burial ground, whether on public or private
land, that includes the graves sites of Indiana pioneers.
------------------------------------------------
There are probably problems with the above definition, or for that matter
with any simplified definition, so let's kick this around some and see if we
can't improve it while endeavoring to keep it as simply stated as is
possible.
One problem that comes to mind: How can residency prior to 1851 be
expeditiously determined when studying a cemetery? A researcher can't really
assume that all gravesites meeting the date criteria also suggest residency
before 1850? Particularly if the date of death is post 1851. It seems to
me that there will have to be additional criteria in the cemetery definition
that simplifies the process of determining Indiana Pioneer Cemetery status.
It may be that some discussion about the number of potential pioneer
interments within a cemetery should be a requirement? Or perhaps, a
percentage of the total? I don't pretend to know, let's discuss it.
Thanks in advance to all who participate in the discussion.
Best Regards,
Rich Green
Historic Archaeological Research
4338 Hadley Court
West Lafayette, IN 47906
Office: (765) 464-8735
Mobile: (765) 427-4082
www.har-indy.com
************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at
http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour
I asked the president of the Society of Indiana Pioneers what defines a
pioneer
cemetery and this is her reply:
Hi Bob!
This is an interesting question, and I don't think I have the answer.
>From our
perspective, a qualifying pioneer has to have entered the state by 1840 or
1850,
but didn't have to be a land owner. Also, he/she obviously wouldn't have
had
to have been dead by those dates, so could have been buried much later.
Particularly infants who came into the state by 1840, could have been buried
into the early 1900's.
You have raised an interesting question, but I do agree with you that
burial
by 1850 seems a little early to cut off the Pioneer graveyard definition.
Good luck!
Joan
Joan R. Everitt
And I also have a friend, 94 year old Miss Thelma M. Murphy, who has been
doing cemetery readings in Marion County, Indiana since 1935, and she says
because
many people did not own land, going with a date, say before 1850, would be
more appropriate. Bob
AMEN!!!!!!!!!!!
>From: "UEB" <uebush(a)sbcglobal.net>
>Reply-To: inpcrp(a)rootsweb.com
>To: <inpcrp(a)rootsweb.com>
>Subject: Re: [INPCRP] Pioneer Cemeteries
>Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2007 21:30:22 -0500
>
>The Henry county INPCRP group tried to get approval of HB #1155 which would
>establish that any cemetery founded before 1900 would be considered a
>"Pioneer Cemetery" but it died after many attachments and amend were added
>to it. It was cut up so much I don't know what was eventually approved and
>voted on.
>
>HOUSE BILL No. 1155
>DIGEST OF INTRODUCED BILL
>
>
>Citations Affected: IC 14-21-1; IC 16-37-1; IC 23-14-67; IC 34-30-2-91.5.
>
>Synopsis: Cemetery maintenance. Establishes the pioneer cemetery account
>within the cemetery and burial ground trust fund. Provides that if a fee is
>charged for a death certificate, an additional $3 fee is imposed to be used
>by a county cemetery commission (commission) for maintenance of certain
>cemeteries. Requires a utility to have an approved development plan before
>disturbing ground within 100 feet of a burial ground. Allows a commission
>to
>maintain certain cemeteries established before 1900.
>
> SOURCE: IC 23-14-67-1; (05)IN1155.1.5. --> SECTION 5. IC 23-14-67-1 IS
>AMENDED TO READ AS FOLLOWS [EFFECTIVE JULY 1, 2005]: Sec. 1. This chapter
>applies to cemeteries that were established before 1900 and:
>(1) are without funds or sources of funds for reasonable maintenance;
>(2) have suffered neglect and deterioration; or
>(3) may be the burial grounds for Indiana pioneer leaders or veterans of an
>American war, including the Revolutionary War. and
>(4) were established before 1850.
>
>UEB
>
>Henry County, IN
>
>INPCRP/HCCC
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Rich Green" <rgreen(a)insightbb.com>
>To: <inpcrp(a)rootsweb.com>
>Sent: Wednesday, August 22, 2007 2:40 PM
>Subject: Re: [INPCRP] Pioneer Cemeteries
>
>
> > Hello the list,
> >
> > I'm not sure how the 1850 date applies? Indiana became a state in 1816
> > and
> > it may be that the people who originally pioneered Indiana did so in
> > remote
> > regions of the state perhaps up to and even beyond 1850. It follows
>then
> > that some of these pioneer inhabitants were responsible for building
> > communities and had families that continued living, dying and being
>buried
> > right on into the 20th century. Maybe the definition of "pioneer" is
> > really the question?
> >
> > It would seem to me that any cemetery that includes a portion of the
> > population that was responsible for pioneering the state of Indiana
>should
> > be considered an Indiana pioneer cemetery whether it is still in use or
> > not.
> >
> > It is interesting that we all belong to a list entitled Indiana Pioneer
> > Cemetery Restoration Project, but the definition of what a pioneer
> > cemetery
> > really is remains ambiguous?
> >
> > Just food for thought.
> >
> > Best Regards to All,
> >
> > Rich Green
> > Historic Archaeological Research
> > 4338 Hadley Court
> > West Lafayette, IN 47906
> > Office: (765) 464-8735
> > Mobile: (765) 427-4082
> > www.har-indy.com
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Kathy Keller" <k_a_keller(a)msn.com>
> > To: "inpcrp" <INPCRP(a)rootsweb.com>
> > Sent: Wednesday, August 22, 2007 11:45 AM
> > Subject: [INPCRP] Pioneer Cemeteries
> >
> >
> >>I asked what defines a "Pioneer Cemetery"? Is it specific dates or
> >>burials?
> >>This is the response I received from the DNR.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> There is no legal definition. Most people use the date of about 1850,
> >> although this would change from county to county, depending on when
>their
> >> county had pioneers.
> >> Jeannie Regan-Dinius
> >> Special Projects Coordinator
> >> DNR-DHPA
> >> 402 West Washington Street, W274
> >> Indianapolis, IN 46204
> >> 317/234-1268
> >> This list is for sharing pioneer cemetery questions, ideas and
> >> restoration
> >> projects.
> >> -------------------------------
> >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to
> >> INPCRP-request(a)rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the
> >> quotes
> >> in the subject and the body of the message
> >>
> > This list is for sharing pioneer cemetery questions, ideas and
>restoration
> > projects.
> > -------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to
> > INPCRP-request(a)rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the
>quotes
> > in the subject and the body of the message
> >
>
>
> This list is for sharing pioneer cemetery questions, ideas and
>restoration projects.
>-------------------------------
>To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to
>INPCRP-request(a)rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes
>in the subject and the body of the message
San, I think the point they are making is this language is not clearly
spelled out anywhere.
That is always a problem when were all interrupting things our own way.
When it comes to preservation methods, we are all trying to learn the
correct way to proceed.
I can't find any web pages from the past. But I'll keep looking.
LA
----- Original Message -----
From: "STAN D. CULLEY" <CULLEYSD(a)FRONTIERNET.NET>
To: <inpcrp(a)rootsweb.com>
Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2007 4:00 PM
Subject: Re: [INPCRP] Pioneer Cemeteries
> BOB:
>
> I AGREE WITH YOU. THEY ARE MAKING A BIG DEAL OUT OF A SIMPLE MATTER.
> I HAVE BEEN READING ALL OF THE POSTS TOO.
>
> YOU CAN SURE TELL HOW PEOPLE THINK AND FEEL ABOUT THINGS WHEN YOU GET A
> HOT
> DISCUSSION GOING. I CAN SEE
>
> WHERE PEOPLES FEELINGS GET NEEDLESSLY HURT. I GET THE FEELING THAT SOME
> OF
> THEM THINK IT IS EITHER THEIR WAY OR
>
> NO WAY - WHATEVER HAPPENED TO THE SIMPLE WAY - LIKE YOURS. I WOULD SAY
> THAT
> YOUR TWO CENTS WORTH IS ABOUT A
>
> BUCK.
>
>
>
> STAN
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Bob Alloway" <ralloway(a)earthlink.net>
> To: <inpcrp(a)rootsweb.com>
> Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2007 2:15 PM
> Subject: [INPCRP] Pioneer Cemeteries
>
>
>> MY TWO CENTS.. Any graveyard that has the original owners of the land,
>> they
>> lived on, should be considered a Pioneer Cemetery. Period! Bob
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: inpcrp-bounces(a)rootsweb.com [mailto:inpcrp-bounces@rootsweb.com] On
>> Behalf Of Katydid579(a)aol.com
>> Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2007 2:37 PM
>> To: inpcrp(a)rootsweb.com
>> Subject: Re: [INPCRP] Pioneer Cemeteries
>>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> I am an infrequent contributor to this list, but I read all the posts.
>> Since
>> Ohio is your neighbor to the East, I assume many of your concerns are
>> pertinent to our cemeteries, as well.
>>
>> Just yesterday I was talking to Minxie Fannin about the possibility of
>> doing
>>
>> a workshop next year and she asked me if the cemetery in question was a
>> "pioneer" cemetery. I know some of the burials are in the 1820s and 30s
>> and
>> some of
>> the residents are original settlers of the county, but does that make it
>> a
>> "pioneer" cemetery? In my mind it certainly does, but she was uncertain
>> because
>> parts of this particular county were settled earlier. She also expressed
>> some doubt because the cemetery is still active. She also inferred there
>> is
>> a
>> difference between a "pioneer" cemetery and a rural cemetery. Very often
>> in
>>
>> Ohio the "pioneer" cemeteries ARE rural, or at least began as rural
>> cemeteries.
>> Again, I am assuming this is very much the case in Indiana.
>>
>> I am of the mind that the BIRTH date of a particular person buried in a
>> "pioneer" cemetery is more significant than a death date because
>> obviously
>> some
>> people born in the late 1700s, early 1800s could easily live beyond 1850.
>>
>> I am completely open to hearing your views on this topic, and if you
>> don't
>> mind, may chime in with some thoughts of my own.
>>
>> All best,
>> Katie Karrick
>> Ohio Cemetery Preservation Society
>> _www.rootsweb.com/~ohcps_ (http://www.rootsweb.com/~ohcps)
>>
>>
>> This list is for sharing pioneer cemetery questions, ideas and
>> restoration
>> projects.
>> -------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to
>> INPCRP-request(a)rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the
>> quotes
>> in the subject and the body of the message
>>
>>
>
> This list is for sharing pioneer cemetery questions, ideas and restoration
> projects.
> -------------------------------
> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to
> INPCRP-request(a)rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes
> in the subject and the body of the message
>
That's great Joan! You can't go wrong with Paul.
Good luck with your work.
Rich Green
Historic Archaeological Research
4338 Hadley Court
West Lafayette, IN 47906
Office: (765) 464-8735
Mobile: (765) 427-4082
www.har-indy.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "E. Joan Wray" <tippyjo(a)ccrtc.com>
To: <inpcrp(a)rootsweb.com>
Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2007 7:51 PM
Subject: Re: [INPCRP] Stewart Cemetery
> Rich:
>
> Paul Weismiller is one of the township trustees that I work with and he is
> more than happy to have our group check over his old pioneer cemeteries
> which Stewart is. It is always a help when the trustees are cooperaive
> with
> the cemetery restoration people.
>
> Joan Wray
> Tipton County
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Rich Green" <rgreen(a)insightbb.com>
> To: <inpcrp(a)rootsweb.com>
> Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2007 9:56 AM
> Subject: Re: [INPCRP] Stewart Cemetery
>
>
>> Hi Joan,
>>
>> Thanks for letting me know. I knew it was the plan...but I didn't expect
>> that it would take place this quickly!
>>
>> For those of you who don't know about the Stewart cemetery:
>>
>> Paul Weismiller, Tipton County, Cicero Township Trustee, wisely
>> determined
>> that there is significant interest in use of many inactive rural
>> cemeteries.
>> To his credit, he decided to reactivate some of the older cemeteries in
>> his
>> charge enabling folks to be buried with their friends and relatives.
>> Obviously, this can be problematic when cemetery records are incomplete
>> or
>> inaccurate. As we all know, older cemeteries consist of many unmarked
>> and
>> mis-marked graves. The last thing cemetery stewards want to deal with is
>> the discovery of human remains during a funeral.
>>
>> This is where we came in. In 2006, Paul hired HAR to survey and map two
>> Cicero Township cemeteries. We confirmed existing readings and created
>> accurate CAD drawings depicting the current surface conditions of each
>> site,
>> modifying the cemetery database where necessary. Each monument and all
>> visible surface features were drawn to scale and linked to the cemetery
>> database.
>>
>> In 2007, Paul contracted to have the vacant areas within each previously
>> surveyed cemetery subjected to a multifaceted subsurface investigation
>> utilizing Ground Penetrating Radar (GPR) and other electronic means to
>> determine where future use of the sites would be certain to avoid any
>> earlier unmarked burials. These "cleared" areas were then surveyed and
>> plotted with grave lots for future sale and use, and have been added to
>> the
>> overall site map. Any areas where subsurface disturbance was uncertain
>> have
>> been avoided.
>>
>> In the case of the Stewart cemetery, we also delineated a driveway and
>> parking lot/turn-around area enabling funeral directors to use this older
>> cemetery without disturbing new and existing grave sites.
>>
>> It is rewarding to hear that Mr. Weismiller's well conceived plan is
>> coming
>> to fruition in a very timely manner.
>>
>> Best Regards,
>>
>> Rich Green
>> Historic Archaeological Research
>> 4338 Hadley Court
>> West Lafayette, IN 47906
>> Office: (765) 464-8735
>> Mobile: (765) 427-4082
>> www.har-indy.com
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "E. Joan Wray" <tippyjo(a)ccrtc.com>
>> To: <inpcrp(a)rootsweb.com>
>> Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2007 9:13 AM
>> Subject: Re: [INPCRP] Pioneer Cemeteries
>>
>>
>>> RICH: DID YOU KNOW THEY HAD A BURIAL AT THE STEWART CEMETERY ABOUT A
>>> MONTH
>>> AGO?
>>>
>>> I THINK THAT WAS A GOOD IDEA.
>>>
>>> JOAN WRAY
>>> TIPTON COUNTY
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Rich Green" <rgreen(a)insightbb.com>
>>> To: <inpcrp(a)rootsweb.com>
>>> Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2007 8:41 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [INPCRP] Pioneer Cemeteries
>>>
>>>
>>>> Hi Kyle, Jon and the list,
>>>>
>>>> If you check out the INPCRP-L Archives from February of 2003, you'll
>>>> find
>>>> the somewhat lengthy debate of this same subject that Kyle recalled.
>>>>
>>>> Good to hear from my long, lost friend Jon Andrews again too. Jon,
>>>> give
>>>> me
>>>> a call when you have time.
>>>>
>>>> It would seem that a definition of an "Indiana Pioneer Cemetery",
>>>> should
>>>> have arisen from this earlier discussion by a significant part of the
>>>> INPCRP
>>>> list? I didn't participate in the discussion at the time (must have
>>>> been
>>>> busy or absent at the time) so I'm not being critical, just wondering
>>>> why
>>>> the definition of an Indiana pioneer cemetery isn't part of the INPCRP
>>>> web
>>>> page? And perhaps more importantly, why the group still can't
>>>> adequately
>>>> answer this question when someone poses it to the list?
>>>>
>>>> Since the question has come up again here in 2007, maybe we can get it
>>>> done
>>>> this time? The first order of business it seems would be to define the
>>>> terms "Pioneer" and "Indiana Pioneer". In my opinion, this short and
>>>> simple
>>>> definition of a Hoosier pioneer should be in the broadest terms so as
>>>> not
>>>> to
>>>> inadvertently omit any contribution by early inhabitants to the
>>>> settlement
>>>> and development of the state of Indiana.
>>>>
>>>> I suppose it's a pet peeve of mine when dates are tossed around and
>>>> used
>>>> that don't make much sense. And again as Kyle and Jeannie pointed out,
>>>> the
>>>> dates of settlement vary widely around our state. So "about 1850" is
>>>> both
>>>> vague and is not a uniform application from one end of the state to the
>>>> other. I'm not sure that dates of settlement are useful anyway when
>>>> dealing
>>>> with cemeteries, since in this particular case we're not concerned as
>>>> much
>>>> about when the pioneers lived...but when they died. Obviously, it is
>>>> possible for Indiana pioneers to have survived beyond 1850.
>>>>
>>>> Once we understand the definition of an Indiana pioneer, it shouldn't
>>>> be
>>>> that difficult to define an Indiana Pioneer Cemetery, again in the
>>>> broadest
>>>> terms. If we're going to use dates at all, I think the drafters of
>>>> this
>>>> definition had better paint with a pretty wide brush.
>>>>
>>>> And does this discussion really hinge on whether or not the cemetery is
>>>> active? The pioneers buried in a cemetery don't somehow lose their
>>>> status
>>>> as pioneers simply because the cemetery is still in use or is
>>>> reactivated,
>>>> do they?
>>>>
>>>> Maybe if we all cooperate, we can come up with a paragraph or two that
>>>> adequately defines an Indiana Pioneer Cemetery? It doesn't have to
>>>> include
>>>> a lot of legalese (we're not trying to draft legislation), just a
>>>> simple
>>>> statement that addresses the question that has reignited this
>>>> discussion.
>>>> If we come to a consensus, maybe LA will include it somewhere near the
>>>> front
>>>> of the INPCRP web page?
>>>>
>>>> Best Regards to All,
>>>>
>>>> Rich Green
>>>> Historic Archaeological Research
>>>> 4338 Hadley Court
>>>> West Lafayette, IN 47906
>>>> Office: (765) 464-8735
>>>> Mobile: (765) 427-4082
>>>> www.har-indy.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: <KidClerk(a)aol.com>
>>>> To: <inpcrp(a)rootsweb.com>
>>>> Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2007 6:43 AM
>>>> Subject: Re: [INPCRP] Pioneer Cemeteries
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Let me start off by saying I'm not defending the DNR in any
>>>>> way....I've
>>>>> been
>>>>> an outspoken critic of their policy to box up bones in bankers boxes
>>>>> and
>>>>> leave them on office shelves for years...
>>>>>
>>>>> but.....
>>>>>
>>>>> I think the reason the definition of pioneer is vague is because of
>>>>> the
>>>>> amount of time difference between areas of our state being settled.
>>>>> For
>>>>> example,
>>>>> I had ancestors settle into Henry, Wayne and Montgomery counties in
>>>>> the
>>>>> early 1820's. They were pioneers. Here in Newton County, where I
>>>>> have
>>>>> been
>>>>> raised my entire life, the first white child wasn't born until 1832.
>>>>> The
>>>>> first
>>>>> post office a few years later, and most towns weren't organized until
>>>>> the
>>>>> 1850's and 60's. Our county was organized in late 1859. That's
>>>>> almost
>>>>> a
>>>>> full 40
>>>>> years after my pioneer ancestors were in east central Indiana.
>>>>> Shouldn't
>>>>> people who lived here before we were even a county be considered
>>>>> pioneers?
>>>>> Yes, they should, but it's after the 'magic' date of 1850. I can
>>>>> count
>>>>> on one
>>>>> hand the number of tombstones dated prior to 1850 in my entire county
>>>>> (as
>>>>> well
>>>>> as tell you who and where they are).
>>>>>
>>>>> This isn't the first time this topic has been discussed on this
>>>>> board.
>>>>> I
>>>>> don't recall any definition coming out of that discussion either.
>>>>> But
>>>>> I
>>>>> think
>>>>> Rich has come as close as anyone in his comment:
>>>>>
>>>>> "It would seem to me that any cemetery that includes a portion of the
>>>>> population that was responsible for pioneering the state of Indiana
>>>>> should be
>>>>> considered an Indiana pioneer cemetery whether it is still in use or
>>>>> not."
>>>>>
>>>>> When you apply this to the various geographic areas of our state, no
>>>>> specific date comes into play, and therefore it becomes applicable to
>>>>> all
>>>>> of them
>>>>> equally.
>>>>>
>>>>> But, yes, it still remains vague.
>>>>>
>>>>> Kyle D. Conrad
>>>>> Brook, IN
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> In a message dated 8/22/2007 10:20:15 P.M. Central Standard Time,
>>>>> sianoil(a)hotmail.com writes:
>>>>>
>>>>> Amen, sister! I was beginning to think it was just me. You are right
>>>>> on!
>>>>> "Vague" in governmental terms means a lot of gray area and that of
>>>>> course,
>>>>> in turn creates the "make-up the rules as you go" routine practiced
>>>>> by
>>>>> all
>>>>> bureaucratic agencies, which in the end results in more paperwork,
>>>>> lots
>>>>> of
>>>>> paper work, which of course means bigger budgets and more jobs.
>>>>> "Vague'
>>>>> could be to our advantage, but black and white is never directly
>>>>> adhered
>>>>> to
>>>>> anyway. What you and I see is not what they see. Anyway, when's do
>>>>> you
>>>>> think
>>>>> that so-called cemetery registry database is going to be up and
>>>>> running
>>>>> as
>>>>> promised or is that just another "smoke screen" to create more
>>>>> paperwork
>>>>> and
>>>>> jobs? I think we need an update?
>>>>> Jon Andrews
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new
>>>>> AOL
>>>>> at
>>>>> http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour
>>>>> This list is for sharing pioneer cemetery questions, ideas and
>>>>> restoration
>>>>> projects.
>>>>> -------------------------------
>>>>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to
>>>>> INPCRP-request(a)rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the
>>>>> quotes
>>>>> in the subject and the body of the message
>>>> This list is for sharing pioneer cemetery questions, ideas and
>>>> restoration
>>>> projects.
>>>> -------------------------------
>>>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to
>>>> INPCRP-request(a)rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the
>>>> quotes
>>>> in the subject and the body of the message
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> This list is for sharing pioneer cemetery questions, ideas and
>>> restoration
>>> projects.
>>> -------------------------------
>>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to
>>> INPCRP-request(a)rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the
>>> quotes
>>> in the subject and the body of the message
>> This list is for sharing pioneer cemetery questions, ideas and
>> restoration
>> projects.
>> -------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to
>> INPCRP-request(a)rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the
>> quotes
>> in the subject and the body of the message
>>
>>
>
>
> This list is for sharing pioneer cemetery questions, ideas and restoration
> projects.
> -------------------------------
> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to
> INPCRP-request(a)rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes
> in the subject and the body of the message
Rich:
Paul Weismiller is one of the township trustees that I work with and he is
more than happy to have our group check over his old pioneer cemeteries
which Stewart is. It is always a help when the trustees are cooperaive with
the cemetery restoration people.
Joan Wray
Tipton County
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rich Green" <rgreen(a)insightbb.com>
To: <inpcrp(a)rootsweb.com>
Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2007 9:56 AM
Subject: Re: [INPCRP] Stewart Cemetery
> Hi Joan,
>
> Thanks for letting me know. I knew it was the plan...but I didn't expect
> that it would take place this quickly!
>
> For those of you who don't know about the Stewart cemetery:
>
> Paul Weismiller, Tipton County, Cicero Township Trustee, wisely
> determined
> that there is significant interest in use of many inactive rural
> cemeteries.
> To his credit, he decided to reactivate some of the older cemeteries in
> his
> charge enabling folks to be buried with their friends and relatives.
> Obviously, this can be problematic when cemetery records are incomplete or
> inaccurate. As we all know, older cemeteries consist of many unmarked and
> mis-marked graves. The last thing cemetery stewards want to deal with is
> the discovery of human remains during a funeral.
>
> This is where we came in. In 2006, Paul hired HAR to survey and map two
> Cicero Township cemeteries. We confirmed existing readings and created
> accurate CAD drawings depicting the current surface conditions of each
> site,
> modifying the cemetery database where necessary. Each monument and all
> visible surface features were drawn to scale and linked to the cemetery
> database.
>
> In 2007, Paul contracted to have the vacant areas within each previously
> surveyed cemetery subjected to a multifaceted subsurface investigation
> utilizing Ground Penetrating Radar (GPR) and other electronic means to
> determine where future use of the sites would be certain to avoid any
> earlier unmarked burials. These "cleared" areas were then surveyed and
> plotted with grave lots for future sale and use, and have been added to
> the
> overall site map. Any areas where subsurface disturbance was uncertain
> have
> been avoided.
>
> In the case of the Stewart cemetery, we also delineated a driveway and
> parking lot/turn-around area enabling funeral directors to use this older
> cemetery without disturbing new and existing grave sites.
>
> It is rewarding to hear that Mr. Weismiller's well conceived plan is
> coming
> to fruition in a very timely manner.
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Rich Green
> Historic Archaeological Research
> 4338 Hadley Court
> West Lafayette, IN 47906
> Office: (765) 464-8735
> Mobile: (765) 427-4082
> www.har-indy.com
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "E. Joan Wray" <tippyjo(a)ccrtc.com>
> To: <inpcrp(a)rootsweb.com>
> Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2007 9:13 AM
> Subject: Re: [INPCRP] Pioneer Cemeteries
>
>
>> RICH: DID YOU KNOW THEY HAD A BURIAL AT THE STEWART CEMETERY ABOUT A
>> MONTH
>> AGO?
>>
>> I THINK THAT WAS A GOOD IDEA.
>>
>> JOAN WRAY
>> TIPTON COUNTY
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Rich Green" <rgreen(a)insightbb.com>
>> To: <inpcrp(a)rootsweb.com>
>> Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2007 8:41 AM
>> Subject: Re: [INPCRP] Pioneer Cemeteries
>>
>>
>>> Hi Kyle, Jon and the list,
>>>
>>> If you check out the INPCRP-L Archives from February of 2003, you'll
>>> find
>>> the somewhat lengthy debate of this same subject that Kyle recalled.
>>>
>>> Good to hear from my long, lost friend Jon Andrews again too. Jon, give
>>> me
>>> a call when you have time.
>>>
>>> It would seem that a definition of an "Indiana Pioneer Cemetery", should
>>> have arisen from this earlier discussion by a significant part of the
>>> INPCRP
>>> list? I didn't participate in the discussion at the time (must have
>>> been
>>> busy or absent at the time) so I'm not being critical, just wondering
>>> why
>>> the definition of an Indiana pioneer cemetery isn't part of the INPCRP
>>> web
>>> page? And perhaps more importantly, why the group still can't adequately
>>> answer this question when someone poses it to the list?
>>>
>>> Since the question has come up again here in 2007, maybe we can get it
>>> done
>>> this time? The first order of business it seems would be to define the
>>> terms "Pioneer" and "Indiana Pioneer". In my opinion, this short and
>>> simple
>>> definition of a Hoosier pioneer should be in the broadest terms so as
>>> not
>>> to
>>> inadvertently omit any contribution by early inhabitants to the
>>> settlement
>>> and development of the state of Indiana.
>>>
>>> I suppose it's a pet peeve of mine when dates are tossed around and used
>>> that don't make much sense. And again as Kyle and Jeannie pointed out,
>>> the
>>> dates of settlement vary widely around our state. So "about 1850" is
>>> both
>>> vague and is not a uniform application from one end of the state to the
>>> other. I'm not sure that dates of settlement are useful anyway when
>>> dealing
>>> with cemeteries, since in this particular case we're not concerned as
>>> much
>>> about when the pioneers lived...but when they died. Obviously, it is
>>> possible for Indiana pioneers to have survived beyond 1850.
>>>
>>> Once we understand the definition of an Indiana pioneer, it shouldn't be
>>> that difficult to define an Indiana Pioneer Cemetery, again in the
>>> broadest
>>> terms. If we're going to use dates at all, I think the drafters of this
>>> definition had better paint with a pretty wide brush.
>>>
>>> And does this discussion really hinge on whether or not the cemetery is
>>> active? The pioneers buried in a cemetery don't somehow lose their
>>> status
>>> as pioneers simply because the cemetery is still in use or is
>>> reactivated,
>>> do they?
>>>
>>> Maybe if we all cooperate, we can come up with a paragraph or two that
>>> adequately defines an Indiana Pioneer Cemetery? It doesn't have to
>>> include
>>> a lot of legalese (we're not trying to draft legislation), just a simple
>>> statement that addresses the question that has reignited this
>>> discussion.
>>> If we come to a consensus, maybe LA will include it somewhere near the
>>> front
>>> of the INPCRP web page?
>>>
>>> Best Regards to All,
>>>
>>> Rich Green
>>> Historic Archaeological Research
>>> 4338 Hadley Court
>>> West Lafayette, IN 47906
>>> Office: (765) 464-8735
>>> Mobile: (765) 427-4082
>>> www.har-indy.com
>>>
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: <KidClerk(a)aol.com>
>>> To: <inpcrp(a)rootsweb.com>
>>> Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2007 6:43 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [INPCRP] Pioneer Cemeteries
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Let me start off by saying I'm not defending the DNR in any way....I've
>>>> been
>>>> an outspoken critic of their policy to box up bones in bankers boxes
>>>> and
>>>> leave them on office shelves for years...
>>>>
>>>> but.....
>>>>
>>>> I think the reason the definition of pioneer is vague is because of the
>>>> amount of time difference between areas of our state being settled.
>>>> For
>>>> example,
>>>> I had ancestors settle into Henry, Wayne and Montgomery counties in the
>>>> early 1820's. They were pioneers. Here in Newton County, where I
>>>> have
>>>> been
>>>> raised my entire life, the first white child wasn't born until 1832.
>>>> The
>>>> first
>>>> post office a few years later, and most towns weren't organized until
>>>> the
>>>> 1850's and 60's. Our county was organized in late 1859. That's
>>>> almost
>>>> a
>>>> full 40
>>>> years after my pioneer ancestors were in east central Indiana.
>>>> Shouldn't
>>>> people who lived here before we were even a county be considered
>>>> pioneers?
>>>> Yes, they should, but it's after the 'magic' date of 1850. I can
>>>> count
>>>> on one
>>>> hand the number of tombstones dated prior to 1850 in my entire county
>>>> (as
>>>> well
>>>> as tell you who and where they are).
>>>>
>>>> This isn't the first time this topic has been discussed on this board.
>>>> I
>>>> don't recall any definition coming out of that discussion either. But
>>>> I
>>>> think
>>>> Rich has come as close as anyone in his comment:
>>>>
>>>> "It would seem to me that any cemetery that includes a portion of the
>>>> population that was responsible for pioneering the state of Indiana
>>>> should be
>>>> considered an Indiana pioneer cemetery whether it is still in use or
>>>> not."
>>>>
>>>> When you apply this to the various geographic areas of our state, no
>>>> specific date comes into play, and therefore it becomes applicable to
>>>> all
>>>> of them
>>>> equally.
>>>>
>>>> But, yes, it still remains vague.
>>>>
>>>> Kyle D. Conrad
>>>> Brook, IN
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> In a message dated 8/22/2007 10:20:15 P.M. Central Standard Time,
>>>> sianoil(a)hotmail.com writes:
>>>>
>>>> Amen, sister! I was beginning to think it was just me. You are right
>>>> on!
>>>> "Vague" in governmental terms means a lot of gray area and that of
>>>> course,
>>>> in turn creates the "make-up the rules as you go" routine practiced by
>>>> all
>>>> bureaucratic agencies, which in the end results in more paperwork, lots
>>>> of
>>>> paper work, which of course means bigger budgets and more jobs. "Vague'
>>>> could be to our advantage, but black and white is never directly
>>>> adhered
>>>> to
>>>> anyway. What you and I see is not what they see. Anyway, when's do you
>>>> think
>>>> that so-called cemetery registry database is going to be up and
>>>> running
>>>> as
>>>> promised or is that just another "smoke screen" to create more
>>>> paperwork
>>>> and
>>>> jobs? I think we need an update?
>>>> Jon Andrews
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new
>>>> AOL
>>>> at
>>>> http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour
>>>> This list is for sharing pioneer cemetery questions, ideas and
>>>> restoration
>>>> projects.
>>>> -------------------------------
>>>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to
>>>> INPCRP-request(a)rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the
>>>> quotes
>>>> in the subject and the body of the message
>>> This list is for sharing pioneer cemetery questions, ideas and
>>> restoration
>>> projects.
>>> -------------------------------
>>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to
>>> INPCRP-request(a)rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the
>>> quotes
>>> in the subject and the body of the message
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> This list is for sharing pioneer cemetery questions, ideas and
>> restoration
>> projects.
>> -------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to
>> INPCRP-request(a)rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the
>> quotes
>> in the subject and the body of the message
> This list is for sharing pioneer cemetery questions, ideas and restoration
> projects.
> -------------------------------
> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to
> INPCRP-request(a)rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes
> in the subject and the body of the message
>
>
Stan,
I don't think the tone of the discussion about the definition of a pioneer
cemetery is "hot" and it certainly wasn't intended to be contentious or
argumentative. It is however ironic that we, as a group, have so many
different opinions about what a pioneer cemetery is. Wouldn't you agree?
Please consider these friendly counter points to your comments:
Many families settled in remote regions of the state, cleared the land for
agriculture, platted towns and developed communities. This doesn't mean
that they died and were buried before any progress took place. Your
definition would leave out any Indiana pioneers who were fortunate to have
lived long enough to see their pioneering efforts come to fruition. The
definition that Bob used was even more restricting.
We're currently working on a cabin site in Kentucky that I can use as an
example. This particular pioneer received a land grant for his contribution
in the Revolutionary War. He raised his family, helped build commerce in
the region, and lived to be 109 years old long after the area he pioneered
was well settled and developed. He isn't buried on the property he settled,
and didn't even own it at the time of his death, as Bob suggests as
prerequisites. And, he didn't die before the area was incorporated. So,
this man and his family who truly pioneered a remote region of Kentucky
aren't pioneers? Are the cemeteries where they are buried not to be
considered pioneer cemeteries regardless of how many pioneers they may
consists of?
Case by case evaluation of cemeteries for the purpose of determining pioneer
status doesn't seem to simplify the process and make it less complicated,
but quite the contrary. I suggest that our INPCRP definition be written by
amiable consensus and crafted in the broadest terms for the purpose of
considering all those who were Indiana pioneers regardless of when they died
and were buried.
P.S. Do you know that you are printing in ALL CAPS? This represents
emphasis or SHOUTING in e-list lingo.
Best Regards,
Rich Green
Historic Archaeological Research
4338 Hadley Court
West Lafayette, IN 47906
Office: (765) 464-8735
Mobile: (765) 427-4082
www.har-indy.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "STAN D. CULLEY" <CULLEYSD(a)frontiernet.net>
To: <inpcrp(a)rootsweb.com>
Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2007 5:50 PM
Subject: Re: [INPCRP] Pioneer Cemeteries
> PIONEER CEMETERIES SHOULD BE DETERMINED ON A CASE BY CASE BASIS. THE
> EARLIEST BURIALS IN THE AREA WOULD BE
>
> CONSIDERED THE PIONEERS; BUT ONLY FOR THAT AREA. THE TIME FRAME WOULD
> MOVE
> WEST AS DID THE PIONEERS. AS
>
> THE TOWNS, COUNTIES OR STATES WERE ESTABLISHED - THEN THE PIONEER STATUS
> WOULD NOT APPLY AFTER THE
>
> INCORPORTION DATE HAS BEEN ESTABLISHED. DATES ARE THE DETERMINING
> FACTORS;
> BUT THE DATES HAVE TO REMAIN
>
> FLEXIBLE AS THE TERRITORY WAS SETTLED. EVEN THOUGH BURIALS HAVE TAKEN
> PLACE
> IN THE PIONEER CEMETERY AFTER THE
>
> INCORPORATION DATE - THOSE BURIALS PRIOR TO THE INCORPORATION DATE ARE
> STILL
> THE PIONEERS OF THE TERRITORY.
>
>
>
> STAN D. CULLEY
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <KidClerk(a)aol.com>
> To: <inpcrp(a)rootsweb.com>
> Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2007 3:32 PM
> Subject: Re: [INPCRP] Pioneer Cemeteries
>
>
>>
>> Personally, I thought the discussions so far have been productive and
>> pertinent. If it's so simple, then please offer your thoughts.
>> Apparently I must
>> be making something much more difficult than what it truly is.
>>
>> Kyle D. Conrad
>>
>> In a message dated 08/23/2007 3:01:37 P.M. Central Daylight Time,
>> CULLEYSD(a)FRONTIERNET.NET writes:
>>
>> BOB:
>>
>> I AGREE WITH YOU. THEY ARE MAKING A BIG DEAL OUT OF A SIMPLE MATTER.
>> I HAVE BEEN READING ALL OF THE POSTS TOO.
>>
>> YOU CAN SURE TELL HOW PEOPLE THINK AND FEEL ABOUT THINGS WHEN YOU GET A
>> HOT
>> DISCUSSION GOING. I CAN SEE
>>
>> WHERE PEOPLES FEELINGS GET NEEDLESSLY HURT. I GET THE FEELING THAT SOME
>> OF
>> THEM THINK IT IS EITHER THEIR WAY OR
>>
>> NO WAY - WHATEVER HAPPENED TO THE SIMPLE WAY - LIKE YOURS. I WOULD SAY
>> THAT
>> YOUR TWO CENTS WORTH IS ABOUT A
>>
>> BUCK.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new
>> AOL
>> at
>> http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour
>> This list is for sharing pioneer cemetery questions, ideas and
>> restoration
>> projects.
>> -------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to
>> INPCRP-request(a)rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the
>> quotes
>> in the subject and the body of the message
>>
>>
>
> This list is for sharing pioneer cemetery questions, ideas and restoration
> projects.
> -------------------------------
> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to
> INPCRP-request(a)rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes
> in the subject and the body of the message
for Instance.. Pike Co was carved from Gibson/Knox Co... Jefferson Twp.. (
along the Buffalo Trace) has two cemeteries with women born in 1790, one buried
next to her dau. who was born in 1807 ,yet had folks buried there as late as
1949. So setting dates would be difficult......Ruth Pride
************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at
http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour
Personally, I thought the discussions so far have been productive and
pertinent. If it's so simple, then please offer your thoughts. Apparently I must
be making something much more difficult than what it truly is.
Kyle D. Conrad
In a message dated 08/23/2007 3:01:37 P.M. Central Daylight Time,
CULLEYSD(a)FRONTIERNET.NET writes:
BOB:
I AGREE WITH YOU. THEY ARE MAKING A BIG DEAL OUT OF A SIMPLE MATTER.
I HAVE BEEN READING ALL OF THE POSTS TOO.
YOU CAN SURE TELL HOW PEOPLE THINK AND FEEL ABOUT THINGS WHEN YOU GET A HOT
DISCUSSION GOING. I CAN SEE
WHERE PEOPLES FEELINGS GET NEEDLESSLY HURT. I GET THE FEELING THAT SOME OF
THEM THINK IT IS EITHER THEIR WAY OR
NO WAY - WHATEVER HAPPENED TO THE SIMPLE WAY - LIKE YOURS. I WOULD SAY THAT
YOUR TWO CENTS WORTH IS ABOUT A
BUCK.
************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at
http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour
Hi everyone,
Seems like there was a page in the past that did explain this.
It may have gotten lost in the changes. I'll take a look.
LA
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rich Green" <rgreen(a)insightbb.com>
To: <inpcrp(a)rootsweb.com>
Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2007 8:41 AM
Subject: Re: [INPCRP] Pioneer Cemeteries
> Hi Kyle, Jon and the list,
>
> If you check out the INPCRP-L Archives from February of 2003, you'll find
> the somewhat lengthy debate of this same subject that Kyle recalled.
>
> Good to hear from my long, lost friend Jon Andrews again too. Jon, give
> me
> a call when you have time.
>
> It would seem that a definition of an "Indiana Pioneer Cemetery", should
> have arisen from this earlier discussion by a significant part of the
> INPCRP
> list? I didn't participate in the discussion at the time (must have been
> busy or absent at the time) so I'm not being critical, just wondering why
> the definition of an Indiana pioneer cemetery isn't part of the INPCRP web
> page? And perhaps more importantly, why the group still can't adequately
> answer this question when someone poses it to the list?
>
> Since the question has come up again here in 2007, maybe we can get it
> done
> this time? The first order of business it seems would be to define the
> terms "Pioneer" and "Indiana Pioneer". In my opinion, this short and
> simple
> definition of a Hoosier pioneer should be in the broadest terms so as not
> to
> inadvertently omit any contribution by early inhabitants to the settlement
> and development of the state of Indiana.
>
> I suppose it's a pet peeve of mine when dates are tossed around and used
> that don't make much sense. And again as Kyle and Jeannie pointed out,
> the
> dates of settlement vary widely around our state. So "about 1850" is both
> vague and is not a uniform application from one end of the state to the
> other. I'm not sure that dates of settlement are useful anyway when
> dealing
> with cemeteries, since in this particular case we're not concerned as much
> about when the pioneers lived...but when they died. Obviously, it is
> possible for Indiana pioneers to have survived beyond 1850.
>
> Once we understand the definition of an Indiana pioneer, it shouldn't be
> that difficult to define an Indiana Pioneer Cemetery, again in the
> broadest
> terms. If we're going to use dates at all, I think the drafters of this
> definition had better paint with a pretty wide brush.
>
> And does this discussion really hinge on whether or not the cemetery is
> active? The pioneers buried in a cemetery don't somehow lose their status
> as pioneers simply because the cemetery is still in use or is reactivated,
> do they?
>
> Maybe if we all cooperate, we can come up with a paragraph or two that
> adequately defines an Indiana Pioneer Cemetery? It doesn't have to
> include
> a lot of legalese (we're not trying to draft legislation), just a simple
> statement that addresses the question that has reignited this discussion.
> If we come to a consensus, maybe LA will include it somewhere near the
> front
> of the INPCRP web page?
>
> Best Regards to All,
>
> Rich Green
> Historic Archaeological Research
> 4338 Hadley Court
> West Lafayette, IN 47906
> Office: (765) 464-8735
> Mobile: (765) 427-4082
> www.har-indy.com
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <KidClerk(a)aol.com>
> To: <inpcrp(a)rootsweb.com>
> Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2007 6:43 AM
> Subject: Re: [INPCRP] Pioneer Cemeteries
>
>
>>
>> Let me start off by saying I'm not defending the DNR in any way....I've
>> been
>> an outspoken critic of their policy to box up bones in bankers boxes and
>> leave them on office shelves for years...
>>
>> but.....
>>
>> I think the reason the definition of pioneer is vague is because of the
>> amount of time difference between areas of our state being settled. For
>> example,
>> I had ancestors settle into Henry, Wayne and Montgomery counties in the
>> early 1820's. They were pioneers. Here in Newton County, where I have
>> been
>> raised my entire life, the first white child wasn't born until 1832.
>> The
>> first
>> post office a few years later, and most towns weren't organized until
>> the
>> 1850's and 60's. Our county was organized in late 1859. That's almost
>> a
>> full 40
>> years after my pioneer ancestors were in east central Indiana.
>> Shouldn't
>> people who lived here before we were even a county be considered
>> pioneers?
>> Yes, they should, but it's after the 'magic' date of 1850. I can count
>> on one
>> hand the number of tombstones dated prior to 1850 in my entire county
>> (as
>> well
>> as tell you who and where they are).
>>
>> This isn't the first time this topic has been discussed on this board.
>> I
>> don't recall any definition coming out of that discussion either. But I
>> think
>> Rich has come as close as anyone in his comment:
>>
>> "It would seem to me that any cemetery that includes a portion of the
>> population that was responsible for pioneering the state of Indiana
>> should be
>> considered an Indiana pioneer cemetery whether it is still in use or
>> not."
>>
>> When you apply this to the various geographic areas of our state, no
>> specific date comes into play, and therefore it becomes applicable to all
>> of them
>> equally.
>>
>> But, yes, it still remains vague.
>>
>> Kyle D. Conrad
>> Brook, IN
>>
>>
>> In a message dated 8/22/2007 10:20:15 P.M. Central Standard Time,
>> sianoil(a)hotmail.com writes:
>>
>> Amen, sister! I was beginning to think it was just me. You are right on!
>> "Vague" in governmental terms means a lot of gray area and that of
>> course,
>> in turn creates the "make-up the rules as you go" routine practiced by
>> all
>> bureaucratic agencies, which in the end results in more paperwork, lots
>> of
>> paper work, which of course means bigger budgets and more jobs. "Vague'
>> could be to our advantage, but black and white is never directly
>> adhered
>> to
>> anyway. What you and I see is not what they see. Anyway, when's do you
>> think
>> that so-called cemetery registry database is going to be up and running
>> as
>> promised or is that just another "smoke screen" to create more paperwork
>> and
>> jobs? I think we need an update?
>> Jon Andrews
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new
>> AOL
>> at
>> http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour
>> This list is for sharing pioneer cemetery questions, ideas and
>> restoration
>> projects.
>> -------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to
>> INPCRP-request(a)rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the
>> quotes
>> in the subject and the body of the message
> This list is for sharing pioneer cemetery questions, ideas and restoration
> projects.
> -------------------------------
> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to
> INPCRP-request(a)rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes
> in the subject and the body of the message