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Ernie,
I think you have and excellent point. Contact you local college or university to see if the Geology department (or possibly the Geography department) has the equipment for ground penetrating radar technology. The machine is taken over the ground inch by inch and will map out the area covered. It will show where the ground has been disturbed (or the layers of dirt excetera). Thereby, when seeing the shapes you may be able to see the area with the graves.
I worked at Western Illinois University in the Geology Dept (I also have a minor in geology) and one of the professors wrote a grant for this equipment which is very expensive. There may be a graduate student or a class that would enjoy having this project.
Connie
Message: 3
Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2007 17:31:33 -0500
From: Ernie Lasley <elasley(a)sigecom.net>
Subject: Re: [INPCRP] Fwd: 1/2 acre
To: inpcrp(a)rootsweb.com
Message-ID: <20071122173133.6ipr8bkvksk4oogs(a)webmail.spamcop.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; DelSp="Yes";
format="flowed"
Jack,
Jeannie may have the best way, give the developer the area and let him
determine the boundaries. But I would suggest you encourage the
developer hire someone with ground penetrating radar technology to map
it out.
I totally agree!
Jodi
Fountain Count
----- Original Message -----
From: "Joe Rowles" <jrowles(a)sbtranspo.com>
To: <INPCRP(a)rootsweb.com>
Sent: Friday, November 23, 2007 5:20 AM
Subject: [INPCRP] list
I'm sitting here and I have observed the things going on here and for the
most part they are impressive. I just think it odd that a group exists and
usually volunteers to undertake a cause that most people don't even thin
twice about. I have seen this site also used for bickering when I first
arrived about who does more. I have seen at length a discussion about ½ acre
square, and now I see another action going on about religion and dowsing.
Frankly I don't think this is the forum for that discussion. This site is
about cemetery restoration and preservation. Does it really matter what
religion we follow or how we arrive at a conclusion or does it matter what
collective good this site can do. Stop bickering - you will chase away some
very good and sincere people from a common goal. And then you will have less
people to accomplish that goal. I apologize for interjecting my two cents -
but - I think sight must be maintained of the original goal.
This list is for sharing pioneer cemetery questions, ideas and restoration
projects.
-------------------------------
To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to
INPCRP-request(a)rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes
in the subject and the body of the message
In a message dated 11/23/2007 5:21:58 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
jrowles(a)sbtranspo.com writes:
I'm sitting here and I have observed the things going on here and for the
most part they are impressive. I just think it odd that a group exists and
usually volunteers to undertake a cause that most people don't even thin twice
about. I have seen this site also used for bickering when I first arrived about
who does more. I have seen at length a discussion about ½ acre square, and
now I see another action going on about religion and dowsing. Frankly
jrowles, Sorry no name
I am the one that has asked questions about the "1/2 Acre Square". Believe
me the wording has a lot to do with it. First I asked on the List and not
being satisfied, I went to Jeannie-Regan Dennis, that is the top, I did go to
her off the List to attempt to get everything right so there could be no come
back on me for not asking and making sure. She responded off List, as I felt
she and I should have. As for religion, I don't discuss it, period. As far as
Dowsing it is said by certain groups to work, (Not this one so far) but when
I'm trying to locate a cemetery or burying ground, I'll try anything legal, or
moral. I do consider anything I have said to be within the confines of the
List. I have to make a judgement call on a "Lost" burying ground. This I Have
done.
It was settled yesterday. No Offense intended;
Jack E. Briles
Floyd Co. Coordinator
INPCRP
_jackbriles(a)aol.com_ (mailto:jackbriles@aol.com)
PO Box 444
New Albany, In 47151
(812) 282-6585
Cell (812) 987-5674
**************************************Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest
products.
(http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001)
I'm sitting here and I have observed the things going on here and for the most part they are impressive. I just think it odd that a group exists and usually volunteers to undertake a cause that most people don't even thin twice about. I have seen this site also used for bickering when I first arrived about who does more. I have seen at length a discussion about ½ acre square, and now I see another action going on about religion and dowsing. Frankly I don't think this is the forum for that discussion. This site is about cemetery restoration and preservation. Does it really matter what religion we follow or how we arrive at a conclusion or does it matter what collective good this site can do. Stop bickering - you will chase away some very good and sincere people from a common goal. And then you will have less people to accomplish that goal. I apologize for interjecting my two cents - but - I think sight must be maintained of the original goal.
Richard Post wrote:
> God IS the basis of Science AND everything else.
>
And I pray that in His wisdom he will help people see the futility of
turning technical mailing lists towards discussions of religion.
Much heat, never much light. Let's talk about old cemeteries.
B.
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On Nov 22, 2007 Ernie Lasley <elasley(a)sigecom.net> wrote:
> I anm not a fan of dowsing, it is just a bunch of hokus-pokus.
> Dowsing has been disproven many, many times and has no basis in
> science or anything else.
Do you believe in God? He has no basis in science or anything else.
And before you think I'm attacking anyone's religion...I'm not. I'm
just pointing out the absurdity in claiming one thing is not true
because there is no science to back it up yet claim another thing is
true with no science to back it up. I've seen dowsing rods work...and
I didn't believe they worked until after I saw them work. I have never
seen God. So as far as I'm concerned actual experience trumps science
some times. IOW, if you believe in God who are you to say He didn't
make dowsing a reality?
And where is your scientific or other proof that dowsing doesn't work?
Jack,
Jeannie may have the best way, give the developer the area and let him
determine the boundaries. But I would suggest you encourage the
developer hire someone with ground penetrating radar technology to map
it out.
I anm not a fan of dowsing, it is just a bunch of hokus-pokus.
Dowsing has been disproven many, many times and has no basis in
science or anything else.
Quoting Jb502000(a)aol.com:
>
> In a message dated 11/21/2007 5:20:23 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, Jb502000
> writes:
>
> Ernie,
> The measurements I finally was able to get my old thick head to settle on
> 147' would make it virtually South of the East-West fence in the
> middle of the
> field because there is only 81 feet North of the Fence. there is 500 ft on
> the South side..We have found 4 bases with the small stones broken off right
> at the date, the 2 larger ones we have found death dates but the names and
> the birth dates are gone. We believe the burials were close to the
> fence. This
> is a tough one. The Developer wants a drawing by spring..Jeannie said, tell
> him the area and let him figure it out.
>
> I am going to try to get a young lady that demonstrated how Dowsing
> works, it worked at the end of the repair season (School Wise) for
> the children
> working on an African-American cemetery, Freedomland.. I'm told If
> you believe
> in it, it will work.
>
> WISH ME LUCK.
>
> Jack E. Briles Sr.
> jackbriles(a)aol.com
> PO Box 444
> New Albany, In. 47151
> (812) 282-6585
> Cell ( 987-5674)
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> **************************************Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest
> products.
> (http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001)
> This list is for sharing pioneer cemetery questions, ideas and
> restoration projects.
> -------------------------------
> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to
> INPCRP-request(a)rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the
> quotes in the subject and the body of the message
>
In a message dated 11/21/2007 5:20:23 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, Jb502000
writes:
Ernie,
The measurements I finally was able to get my old thick head to settle on
147' would make it virtually South of the East-West fence in the middle of the
field because there is only 81 feet North of the Fence. there is 500 ft on
the South side..We have found 4 bases with the small stones broken off right
at the date, the 2 larger ones we have found death dates but the names and
the birth dates are gone. We believe the burials were close to the fence. This
is a tough one. The Developer wants a drawing by spring..Jeannie said, tell
him the area and let him figure it out.
I am going to try to get a young lady that demonstrated how Dowsing
works, it worked at the end of the repair season (School Wise) for the children
working on an African-American cemetery, Freedomland.. I'm told If you believe
in it, it will work.
WISH ME LUCK.
Jack E. Briles Sr.
jackbriles(a)aol.com
PO Box 444
New Albany, In. 47151
(812) 282-6585
Cell ( 987-5674)
**************************************Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest
products.
(http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001)
Hello all,
I received a request to help lead a group of National
Junior Honors Society students in a cemetery
clean-up/restoration project. One of the girls came
to a community cemetery restoration project we had in
Hendricks County and got her school interested in a
future project. They are somewhere on the north side
of Indy, which is too far away for me. Is there
anyone interested in helping educate some students?
I've found that they are very helpful and excited to
be doing hands-on work...and we always say, education
is the key!
If you are interested, please email me.
Jessica Felix
Putnam County (Hendricks County Coordinator)
jlfelix24(a)yahoo.com
____________________________________________________________________________________
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Comment:
This is the article I intended to send yesterday but the link didn't work.
---
Story:
EDITORIAL: Valpo shows community spirit via new attention to cemeteries
The issue: Cemetery maintenanceOur opinion: It's about time that Valparaiso pay more attention to its three cemeteries. They have been in bad shape, with toppled tombstones dishon
Valparaiso is spending more than $100,000 on repairs and beautification at its three city-owned cemeteries. It is needed.
The City Council appropriated $75,000 in October and another $34,000 on Monday to fix up the Maplewood, Union Street and Memorial cemeteries.
For more of this story, click on or type the URL below:
http://www.thetimesonline.com/articles/2007/11/15/opinion/times_editorial...
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Comment:
I hope this link works. sorry for the previous one I sent.
---
Story:
Valparaiso giving cemeteries face-lift
VALPARAISO: Work includes new fences, signs, gravestone repairs
VALPARAISO | The city is spending more than $100,000 to do some beautification and repair work for some of the its oldest inhabitants.
The council appropriated almost $75,000 in October and is expected to approve another $34,000 this month to fix up the three city-owned cemeteries -- Union Street, Maplewood and Memorial. Public Works Director William Oeding said more money will be needed in the spring to continue the work.
For more of this story, click on or type the URL below:
http://www.thetimesonline.com/articles/2007/11/09/news/porter_county/doc6...
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100-plus bronze vases stolen from cemetery
By Vic Ryckaert
vic.ryckaert(a)indystar.com
November 16, 2007
Police are investigating the thefts of more than 100 flower vases from grave
sites at a Westside cemetery.
Floral Park Cemetery is the latest target for thieves who have been raiding
construction sites and air-conditioning units for copper tubing, wire and
metal siding, Indianapolis metropolitan police said Thursday. Bronze vases
were taken from at least 102 grave sites and mausoleums in the 110-acre
cemetery at 3659 Cossell Road from Nov. 5 to Sunday.
"We lock the gates every night, but they don't stop thieves," Floral Park
manager Cinnamon Caughlan said. "Hopefully, they'll be haunted by the people
they stole these from."
Caughlan said the pots weigh about 5 pounds each and cost about $240 to
replace. Police have asked area scrap dealers to look for anyone trying to
sell the vases, which a local dealer said could fetch about $6 each.
In hope of deterring future thefts, Caughlan said, the cemetery intends to
replace the bronze vases with less valuable versions made of aluminum.
"We don't want to put bronze back out," she said. "It's just giving them
another reason to come back."
Rising prices for scrap metal have made this kind of thievery a huge
problem. In July, copper thieves knocked out the Gleaners Food Bank of
Indiana freezer, causing thousands of pounds of food to go bad.
An AT&T official told state lawmakers earlier this year that thieves are
known to climb poles to rip down copper cable. In March, thieves stole
copper downspouts and tubing from seven air-conditioning units at Our Lady
of Lourdes Catholic Church on Indianapolis' Eastside.
In a message dated 11/12/07 11:13:03 PM Eastern Standard Time,
drookard(a)carolina.rr.com writes:
> Has anyone researched the deed to locate the exception?
> Debra
>
Debra, Yes, I had to go back to the only mention of the cemetery. That was a
sale of the property by the sons and daughter when they sold it in 1880. The
original owner is buried there with his wife. He got the Land from the land
office in 1831 for $ 1.25 per A. That is the only mention in 125 years since.
Jack
**************************************
See what's new at
http://www.aol.com
Friends,
I do not profess to know Indiana law as my expertise is colonial VA, but
this is usually very good news to us preservations and genealogists.
"Excepting a cemetery" means that it has been "excepted out" of the land's
deed. A developer cannot purchase this as part of the overall deed or a
separate piece of property, as it is has essentially been rendered non
buyable forever.
It stipulates this as separate parcel of property that was specifically
worded onto the deed of sale (usually) by the original owner to allow family
ingress and egress. It was not a tax issue.
Has anyone researched the deed to locate the exception?
Debra
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OK, can we put this to rest? Enough already.
> From: tippyjo(a)ccrtc.com
> To: inpcrp(a)rootsweb.com
> Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2007 20:31:50 -0500
> Subject: Re: [INPCRP] Cemetery Measurements
>
> On the acre - 1/2 acre bit. If you would draw a square and divide it in
> half on
> adjoining sides in the middle and connect
> the remaining two sides, you can see that
> dividing in half will not give you half of a square, more like 1/4.
> Joan Wray
> Tipton County
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Ernie & Connie Lasley" <elasley(a)spamcop.net>
> To: <inpcrp(a)rootsweb.com>
> Sent: Sunday, November 11, 2007 5:10 PM
> Subject: Re: [INPCRP] Cemetery Measurements
>
>
> > Jack,
> >
> > An acre contains 4,480square yards or 43,560 square feet. A half
> > acre would be 2,240 square yards or 21,780 square feet. Your
> > 104.355 square only gives you about 10,890 square feet, which is
> > closer to a quarter acre square. It would take a little more than
> > 147 by 147. A square 147.58 by 147.58 feet is right at the 21,780
> > square foot half acre. A surveyor should be able to give you the
> > exact measurement.
> >
> > At 02:12 PM 11/11/2007, you wrote:
> >>
> >>Vince,
> >>The exact wording on the 1880 deed calls for "except for a 1/2 Acre Square
> >>set out as it is now" for a burying ground. Are you saying a 104.355'
> >>four
> >>sided square would not comprise a 1/2 Acre. I was under the
> >>impression that an
> >>Acre was more or less 208'. four sided. Therefor a !/2 acre would be
> >>half
> >>of that 208' Square Acre more or less. I fail to see where you get 147
> >>feet
> >>and be able to come up with a 1/2 Acre square. What am I missing.
> >>There was no
> >>thought of laying out the burying ground for Tax Purposes. In fact it
> >>never
> >>appeared on the next deed because the seller was not a relative and had
> >>very
> >>little respect for the burying ground. He plowed around it, but the next
> >>purchaser let cattle run on all of his property, including
> >>the cemetery. A later
> >>buyer removed the stones but left the North side fence for
> >>a reference loosing
> >>only what ground was taken up by the straight 1 sided fence. Could you
> >>pleas
> >>clarify for me.
> >>Thanks
> >>
> >>Jack E. Briles
> >>_jackbriles(a)aol.com_ (mailto:jackbriles@aol.com)
> >>Floyd Co. Coordinator
> >>INPCRP
> >>PO Box 444
> >>New Albany, In. 47151
> >>(812)282-6585
> >>Cell (812)987-5674
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >><Original Message>
> >>
> >>In a message dated 11/5/2007 2:38:05 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
> >>VinceKoers(a)aol.com writes:
> >>
> >>Postman, we are dealing with a verbal optical illusion...
> >>
> >>You are correct in what you say, if you ignore the way the square has
> >>been
> >>described in the post...
> >>
> >>My statement that they are different is linking to the poster's
> >>description,
> >>and that is why the terms are in quotes...
> >>
> >>The original poster describes his square as having a side of 104', which
> >>is
> >>half the length of the side of a one acre square, so in a sense, he could
> >>be
> >>
> >>correct, but the square with the 104' side would not contain 1/2 acre.
> >>
> >>In a perfect world, if the owner received a 1/2 acre tax abatement, they
> >>should have had a 147' foot-a-side square, again ignoring fractions.
> >>
> >>GPR folks charge partly by the area, and it will cost more to survey the
> >>larger area than a smaller one. On the other hand, a "witcher" can
> >>narrow
> >>the
> >>area to be searched, and perhaps do the entire task of pining down
> >>exactly
> >>where the graves are...
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>************************************** See what's new at
> >>http://www.aol.com
> >> This list is for sharing pioneer cemetery questions, ideas and
> >> restoration projects.
> >>-------------------------------
> >>To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to
> >>INPCRP-request(a)rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the
> >>quotes in the subject and the body of the message
> >
> > This list is for sharing pioneer cemetery questions, ideas and restoration
> > projects.
> > -------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to
> > INPCRP-request(a)rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes
> > in the subject and the body of the message
> >
> >
>
>
> This list is for sharing pioneer cemetery questions, ideas and restoration projects.
> -------------------------------
> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to INPCRP-request(a)rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message
_________________________________________________________________
Help yourself to FREE treats served up daily at the Messenger Café. Stop by today.
http://www.cafemessenger.com/info/info_sweetstuff2.html?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_Oc...
On the acre - 1/2 acre bit. If you would draw a square and divide it in
half on
adjoining sides in the middle and connect
the remaining two sides, you can see that
dividing in half will not give you half of a square, more like 1/4.
Joan Wray
Tipton County
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ernie & Connie Lasley" <elasley(a)spamcop.net>
To: <inpcrp(a)rootsweb.com>
Sent: Sunday, November 11, 2007 5:10 PM
Subject: Re: [INPCRP] Cemetery Measurements
> Jack,
>
> An acre contains 4,480square yards or 43,560 square feet. A half
> acre would be 2,240 square yards or 21,780 square feet. Your
> 104.355 square only gives you about 10,890 square feet, which is
> closer to a quarter acre square. It would take a little more than
> 147 by 147. A square 147.58 by 147.58 feet is right at the 21,780
> square foot half acre. A surveyor should be able to give you the
> exact measurement.
>
> At 02:12 PM 11/11/2007, you wrote:
>>
>>Vince,
>>The exact wording on the 1880 deed calls for "except for a 1/2 Acre Square
>>set out as it is now" for a burying ground. Are you saying a 104.355'
>>four
>>sided square would not comprise a 1/2 Acre. I was under the
>>impression that an
>>Acre was more or less 208'. four sided. Therefor a !/2 acre would be
>>half
>>of that 208' Square Acre more or less. I fail to see where you get 147
>>feet
>>and be able to come up with a 1/2 Acre square. What am I missing.
>>There was no
>>thought of laying out the burying ground for Tax Purposes. In fact it
>>never
>>appeared on the next deed because the seller was not a relative and had
>>very
>>little respect for the burying ground. He plowed around it, but the next
>>purchaser let cattle run on all of his property, including
>>the cemetery. A later
>>buyer removed the stones but left the North side fence for
>>a reference loosing
>>only what ground was taken up by the straight 1 sided fence. Could you
>>pleas
>>clarify for me.
>>Thanks
>>
>>Jack E. Briles
>>_jackbriles(a)aol.com_ (mailto:jackbriles@aol.com)
>>Floyd Co. Coordinator
>>INPCRP
>>PO Box 444
>>New Albany, In. 47151
>>(812)282-6585
>>Cell (812)987-5674
>>
>>
>>
>><Original Message>
>>
>>In a message dated 11/5/2007 2:38:05 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
>>VinceKoers(a)aol.com writes:
>>
>>Postman, we are dealing with a verbal optical illusion...
>>
>>You are correct in what you say, if you ignore the way the square has
>>been
>>described in the post...
>>
>>My statement that they are different is linking to the poster's
>>description,
>>and that is why the terms are in quotes...
>>
>>The original poster describes his square as having a side of 104', which
>>is
>>half the length of the side of a one acre square, so in a sense, he could
>>be
>>
>>correct, but the square with the 104' side would not contain 1/2 acre.
>>
>>In a perfect world, if the owner received a 1/2 acre tax abatement, they
>>should have had a 147' foot-a-side square, again ignoring fractions.
>>
>>GPR folks charge partly by the area, and it will cost more to survey the
>>larger area than a smaller one. On the other hand, a "witcher" can
>>narrow
>>the
>>area to be searched, and perhaps do the entire task of pining down
>>exactly
>>where the graves are...
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>************************************** See what's new at
>>http://www.aol.com
>> This list is for sharing pioneer cemetery questions, ideas and
>> restoration projects.
>>-------------------------------
>>To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to
>>INPCRP-request(a)rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the
>>quotes in the subject and the body of the message
>
> This list is for sharing pioneer cemetery questions, ideas and restoration
> projects.
> -------------------------------
> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to
> INPCRP-request(a)rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes
> in the subject and the body of the message
>
>
In a message dated 11/12/07 6:02:28 PM Eastern Standard Time,
elasley(a)spamcop.net writes:
> Jack,
>
> An acre contains 4,480square yards or 43,560 square feet. A half
> acre would be 2,240 square yards or 21,780 square feet. Your
> 104.355 square only gives you about 10,890 square feet, which is
> closer to a quarter acre square. It would take a little more than
> 147 by 147. A square 147.58 by 147.58 feet is right at the 21,780
> square foot half acre. A surveyor should be able to give you the
> exact measurement.
>
Thank's Ernie I admit I was wrong, but I'm geting older and sometimes things
don't seem right. Thanks for explaning it that way. I apoligize to Vince and
Rick. My Mistake..
That is really going to tear up the Developer because it is bigger than I
guessed it was. I'll have to change it in the morning. Hope I don't get shot.This
is what happens when Developers buy ground with un marked cemeteries on them
Thank's everyone. They thought it was on some low ground, but I told them,
cemeteries are always on high ground to avoid water problems, like they did'nt
know that already.
Thanks again,
Jack Briles Sr.
**************************************
See what's new at
http://www.aol.com
Jack,
An acre contains 4,480square yards or 43,560 square feet. A half
acre would be 2,240 square yards or 21,780 square feet. Your
104.355 square only gives you about 10,890 square feet, which is
closer to a quarter acre square. It would take a little more than
147 by 147. A square 147.58 by 147.58 feet is right at the 21,780
square foot half acre. A surveyor should be able to give you the
exact measurement.
Ernie
(sent this Sunday, for some reason it did not post?)
At 02:12 PM 11/11/2007, you wrote:
>
>Vince,
>The exact wording on the 1880 deed calls for "except for a 1/2 Acre Square
>set out as it is now" for a burying ground.
>
>Jack E. Briles
>_jackbriles(a)aol.com_ (mailto:jackbriles@aol.com)
>Floyd Co. Coordinator
>INPCRP
In a message dated 11/11/07 2:13:38 PM Eastern Standard Time,
Jb502000(a)aol.com writes:
> In a message dated 11/5/2007 2:38:05 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
> VinceKoers(a)aol.com writes:
>
> Postman, we are dealing with a verbal optical illusion...
>
> You are correct in what you say, if you ignore the way the square has been
>
> described in the post...
>
Vince,
If an acre has 4 equal sides of 208' why then would not 104' of 4 equal sides
not equal a 1/2 acre. an acre is 832' feet , and a half acre is 416 feet
around why is that not a square 1/2 acre. straighten me out. I laid out a 104'
square using the fence of 104 feet as a guide and it came out 1/2 acre. help,
jack
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