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Brad,
When will this presentation be? I'd like to be there.
Has there been any news about the missing head of the angel statue we repaired?
If not, I think that would be a good item for a dart in the Franklin newspaper Hearts & Darts column.
Theresa
Brad Manzenberger <bradmanz(a)earthlink.net> wrote:
INPCRP and Graveyard Groomers to be recognized by City of Franklin...
I got a phone call today from Suzanne Findley, Director of Franklin Parks
Dept. which oversees Greenlawn Cemetery. She said the City Council, Parks
Board and the Mayor want to present a plaque to INPCRP and Graveyard
Groomers (Walt and Danny) in recognition of the repairs of the vandalized
stones at Greenlawn.
Brad
==== INPCRP Mailing List ====
INPCRP State Coordinator: Brad Manzenberger < bradmanz(a)earthlink.net >
http://www.inpcrp.org
---------------------------------
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Win 1 of 4,000 free domain names from Yahoo! Enter now.
INPCRP and Graveyard Groomers to be recognized by City of Franklin...
I got a phone call today from Suzanne Findley, Director of Franklin Parks
Dept. which oversees Greenlawn Cemetery. She said the City Council, Parks
Board and the Mayor want to present a plaque to INPCRP and Graveyard
Groomers (Walt and Danny) in recognition of the repairs of the vandalized
stones at Greenlawn.
Brad
WOW! Isn't that great? How often do you all go out and do your good deeds
and get NO recognition by the local governments? This is precedent setting,
I'll bet and you should try to capitalize on it by showing other local govs
that preservationists and government CAN cooperate for the better good!
Sue Silver
CA
----- Original Message -----
From: "Brad Manzenberger" <bradmanz(a)earthlink.net>
To: <INPCRP-L(a)rootsweb.com>
Sent: Monday, August 23, 2004 11:19 AM
Subject: [INPCRP] Official Recognition
> INPCRP and Graveyard Groomers to be recognized by City of Franklin...
>
> I got a phone call today from Suzanne Findley, Director of Franklin Parks
> Dept. which oversees Greenlawn Cemetery. She said the City Council, Parks
> Board and the Mayor want to present a plaque to INPCRP and Graveyard
> Groomers (Walt and Danny) in recognition of the repairs of the vandalized
> stones at Greenlawn.
>
> Brad
>
>
> ==== INPCRP Mailing List ====
> INPCRP State Coordinator: Brad Manzenberger < bradmanz(a)earthlink.net >
> http://www.inpcrp.org
>
Hello the list,
We've been working out of state (KY &OH) for the past several weeks and
therefore have been somewhat incommunicado, so I missed the Ruth Holladay
Indy Star article about the Maria Creek Baptist church and cemetery site in
Knox County. Could someone forward me a copy?
Thanks in advance and Best Regards,
Rich Green
Historic Archaeological Research
4338 Hadley Court
West Lafayette, IN 47906
Office: (765) 464-8735
Mobile: (765) 427-4082
www.har-indy.com
Jack, I just wanted you to know--The article the Tribune printed about the
cemetery was submitted by me over two weeks ago. So some of the info is already
old. I'm truly glad about this cemetery.
Jack, Thank you very much. I talked to J. just before she left the office
for her vacation. Her information and what you have given me today have helped
very much. We appreciate it and will let you know our progress.
Tom
Tom,
Jeannie went on vacation Tuesday the 17 of August. You may want to
contact
Amy Johnson, an Archeologist who will be the contact person until Jeannie
gets back. Amy's phone number is 317/232-1646 you apparently need to see
about help quickly. The Loggers could easily cross over into the cemetery,
since there is no fence or markers. Some of those trees are 75-100 years old and a
mistake could easily be made. No one can see the site from the highway.
Jack E. Briles Sr.
Great job, Jack! Thanks!!
Brad
-----Original Message-----
From: Jackbriles(a)aol.com [mailto:Jackbriles@aol.com]
Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 10:13 PM
To: INPCRP-L(a)rootsweb.com
Subject: [INPCRP] Another Cemetery Survived in Floyd Co.
Jeannie,
I attended the planning comm. meeting last night. I spoke for 10
minutes.
After the meeting the developer wanted your phone number so he can adhere to
the Present Laws. He and I spoke after the meeting and he is preserving the
cemetery. There will be access, as well as a fence. The access will be on
the
wastewater treatment rd, with a walking path that will conform to the
Americans
With Disabilities Act. In my talk, I suggested a couple of parking places
for
visitors, since parking in the tract will be off rd. and they have set
aside
appx. 2 acres for waste and the cemetery area. I suggested they had room.
I came away satisfied. Don Thineman, The Developer will call you, he
wants to know if they have to file a plan before any dirt is turned, or wait
untill they get to the treatment plant, which will be 75 feet from the
cemetery. I did not know the answer last night. Thanks for your quick
response to my
E-mail Sunday night. I appreciate having someone respond quickly when it is
needed. Thanks again, ONE MORE CEMETERY SURVIVED!!
jackbriles(a)aol.com
Jack E. Briles Sr.
Po Box 444
New Albany, In. 47151-0444
(812)282-6585
==== INPCRP Mailing List ====
INPCRP State Coordinator: Brad Manzenberger < bradmanz(a)earthlink.net >
http://www.inpcrp.org
Jeannie,
I attended the planning comm. meeting last night. I spoke for 10 minutes.
After the meeting the developer wanted your phone number so he can adhere to
the Present Laws. He and I spoke after the meeting and he is preserving the
cemetery. There will be access, as well as a fence. The access will be on the
wastewater treatment rd, with a walking path that will conform to the Americans
With Disabilities Act. In my talk, I suggested a couple of parking places for
visitors, since parking in the tract will be off rd. and they have set aside
appx. 2 acres for waste and the cemetery area. I suggested they had room.
I came away satisfied. Don Thineman, The Developer will call you, he
wants to know if they have to file a plan before any dirt is turned, or wait
untill they get to the treatment plant, which will be 75 feet from the
cemetery. I did not know the answer last night. Thanks for your quick response to my
E-mail Sunday night. I appreciate having someone respond quickly when it is
needed. Thanks again, ONE MORE CEMETERY SURVIVED!!
jackbriles(a)aol.com
Jack E. Briles Sr.
Po Box 444
New Albany, In. 47151-0444
(812)282-6585
Hi J,
I am Tom Cannon the trustee in New Albany Township Floyd County.
We have a company logging next to a grave yard with approximently 300
graves on four acres. The County approved the logging and I submitted the
survey to show the lines and it was all approved. Now, however the
bulldozers have begun
widening the wagon road threw the woods boardering one side of the 4 acres.
We know some buriels occurred outside the survey lines on another side of the
property but not where tyhe road is being widened.
I would like a conservation officer to accompany me out there to observe the
action now in progress. Can you please advise.
812-948-5498
Tom
Jack, I have a logging company right next to the Colored Peoples Cemetery
widening the little road that runs by there. What is the procedure for halting
this temporarily? We could use this to test the law and educate the judges if
you want give me a call. I do not think the ground is in danger but it is
within one hundred foot of the 300 graves up there..If you got time give me a
call.
Tom
Hi......
I have used this line of defense in maintaining access to my mother's real
estate.
Just a brief warning........my case has been in court for 2-1/2 years and is
going for bench trial next month !!
I'm sure that it depends on the location,defendants, judge, etc. as far as
the expediency of such an effort, but it definitely would seem to be an
impossible (and costly) line of defense for access to a cemetery here in
Lawrence county !!
----- Original Message -----
From: "tielking" <tielking(a)knightstown.net>
To: <INPCRP-L(a)rootsweb.com>
Sent: Monday, August 16, 2004 9:01 PM
Subject: Re: [INPCRP] Indiana cemetery law
> Teresa,
> I brought this particular item up in I think in March on this list. I read
> about this "easement by necessity" in a real estate class. It says that
"an
> easement by necessity is created by court order based on the principle
that
> owners have the right to enter and exit their land (the right of ingress
and
> egress) - they should not be landlocked."
> I guess it is how you view this type of easement. Can an easement by
> necessity be something we can use to gain access to landlocked cemeteries?
> Is it necessary to cross private property to visit ancestors? Is it
> necessary to maintain the cemetery? How will the courts view this? We need
a
> law that addresses the right of ingress and egress when it comes to
> cemeteries - plain and simply. I don't see it happening anytime soon, but
I
> think it will happen.
> If anyone has used this line of defense to gain access to a landlocked
> cemetery, please respond.
> Angela
> ---- Original Message -----
> From: "Rahn Teresa" <whimsical61953(a)yahoo.com>
> To: <INPCRP-L(a)rootsweb.com>
> Sent: Monday, August 16, 2004 11:01 AM
> Subject: Re: [INPCRP] Indiana cemetery law
>
>
> > I have been informed that in regard to cemeteries that are totally
> landlocked on private property, access may be gained by a law that refers
to
> "easement by necessity".
> > Does anyone know more about this law? Our family is in a situation with
a
> cemetery est in 1825 that is totally overgrown and is landlocked within a
> wooded isle that sits smack dab in the middle of planted fields. Any help
> is appreciated. Thanx.
> >
> > Teresa
> >
> > tielking <tielking(a)knightstown.net> wrote:
> > Hi Larry,
> >
> > Checking my e-mail late (again)....
> > Question 1: Nope. This is my #1 complaint with cemetery law. There is no
> > right of ingress and egress. I was told by Sen. Bev Gard and Rep. Tom
> > Saunders that this issue would be extremely difficult to fight due to
> > Indiana being strong in private property rights. I was told Farm Bureau
> > would fight this issue and be hard to beat. There are other states that
> have
> > cemetery access law - West Virginia being one of them. Mark Davis was
kind
> > to send me a copy of their legislation. We modeled legislation after the
> > West Virginia law.
> > We had an attorney who works for Historic Landmarks and the Indiana
> > Historical Society help us in drafting legislation. But, due to time
> > constraints, our drafts were never heard in committee. We had Senator
Bev
> > Gard ready to introduce and support our legislation if it went to the
> > Senate. Same for Rep. Saunders and Rep. Adams (who "authored" HB 1441
"The
> > Cemetery Maintenance Bill") if it went to the House.
> > If you look at IC 6-1 Chapter 6.8 Assessment of Cemetery Land. Section
15
> > addresses a little bit of ingress and egress, but only for a "classified
> > cemetery". An owner of a classified cemetery must allow family members
and
> > descendants at least one day each year to visit the cemetery. That is
all
> > fine and dandy, but who in their right mind would pay to have a cemetery
> > classified as a cemetery?! The owner of the cemetery has to pay to have
it
> > surveyed and then pay taxes on it and then allow ingress and egress
across
> > their land for visitation. Surveys are not cheap.
> >
> >
> > Question #2: Unfortunately, legislation is always open to
interpretation.
> IC
> > 35-43-1-2.1 Section 3 (b) states that a person who recklessly,
knowingly,
> or
> > intentionally damages a cemetery, burial ground, facility, monument,
> > artifact, ornamentation or enclosure commits a Class A misdemeanor or
> Class
> > D felony depending on the amount of damage done. If somebody's cows are
> out
> > in a cemetery, the cows are most likely going to do some damage i.e.
> rubbing
> > against the stones, trampling stones, breaking the fence, etc....I
> > personally think the farmer is liable for the damage. Same thing with
> > plowing a cemetery. He/She knew the cemetery was there, but tilled it
> > anyway. He/She did it intentionally, recklessly and knowingly.
> >
> > The law reads: Sec 2.1 (1) A person who acts in a proper and acceptable
> > manner as authorized by IC 14-21 other than a person who disturbs the
> earth
> > for an agricultural purpose UNDER THE EXEMPTION TO IC 14-21 that is
> provided
> > in IC 14-21-1-24."
> > It gets very confusing, but this is how I interpret the law and I know
> > others think differently.
> >
> > I know it isn't much, but that is my two cents worth.
> > Angela
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Stephens, Larry V"
> > To:
> > Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 8:40 AM
> > Subject: [INPCRP] Indiana cemetery law
> >
> >
> > > For the Indiana folks: I'd like a quick comment on my observations
from
> > reading the Indiana codes on cemeteries:
> > >
> > > I find nothing that gives anyone the "right" to access a cemetery on
> > private land.
> >
> > >
> > > I find nothing that says you have to protect a private cemetery, e.g.,
> > fence it to keep the cows out. I did see some code about protecting a
> > "public" cemetery but my reading of the code is a public cemetery is one
> > that has been deeded to a public arm, like the township. A cemetery that
> is
> > on private land and is still owned by the landowner is not, by my
reading,
> > "public" and does not have to be protected.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > If anyone can point me to any IC that says differently, please do.
> > >
> > > Thanks.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Larry V. Stephens
> > > Office of Risk Management
> > > 812-855-9758
> > > stephenL(a)indiana.edu
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ==== INPCRP Mailing List ====
> > > INPCRP State Coordinator: Brad Manzenberger < bradmanz(a)earthlink.net >
> > > http://www.inpcrp.org
> > >
> >
> >
> > ==== INPCRP Mailing List ====
> > "Show me your cemeteries, and I will tell you what kind of people you
> have."
> > Benjamin Franklin (1706 - 1790)
> >
> >
> >
> > ==== INPCRP Mailing List ====
> > Visit the INPCRP on the web at http://www.inpcrp.org
> >
>
>
> ==== INPCRP Mailing List ====
> Quote from William Gladstone (1809-1897), three-time Prime Minister of
England
> and Victorian contemporary of Benjamin Disraeli:
> "Show me the manner in which a nation or community
> cares for its dead and I will measure with mathematical
> exactness the tender mercies of its people, their
> respect for the laws of the land, and their loyalty
> to high ideals."
>
>
Whoa! Thank you for taking so much time to write all this out. Your advice is sound and noted.
Teresa
"Paul J. Smith" <smithp(a)iquest.net> wrote:
"Easement by necessity" is an old concept in Indiana property law.
Unfortunately, to determine whether it applies in your case you will need to
consult an attorney who is familiar with the legal concept and probably need
title searches.
The concept arose to deal with the situation of a landowner who conveyed
away part of his property that was landlocked by other property that he
retained. The courts implied an easement somewhere across the remainder of
his property so the new owner could have access to a road. It had to be a
real necessity, not just a convenience. So if one side of the sold property
had access to a road, but the side of the sold property that had the barn
did not have such access without crossing the property of the previous
landowner, too bad.
Also, the concept requires that conveyed away land once to have been owned
by the same owner of the land across which an easement is sought. That's
why a title search will be necessary. The easement, if any, arose out of
necessity when the land was sold. So if things changed in the intervening
years, too bad, and if the land with the cemetery never had a common owner
with the land across which the easement was sought, also too bad. It is
said that an easement of "necessity cannot arise against the lands of a
stranger." In other words, if an easement of necessity exists, it exists
only because of conditions at the time the land was divided for sale and
only if the landlocked land and the land across which the easement is sought
had common ownership. If the landlocked cemetery is cut off from road
access by land that was never owned somewhere up the line by the same person
that owned the cemetery land, probably too bad. You'll only figure out who
owned what and when by analyzing title searches.
To make this even more complicated, easement by necessity cases usually
involve disputes between landowners. Presumably the persons seeking access
to the landlocked cemeteries are not the owners of the cemetery but rather
descendants or relatives or just interested persons concerned about the
cemetery. Whether the concept of "easement by necessity" grants them access
is far from clear.
So, to figure this out you'll need an attorney and title information.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rahn Teresa"
To:
Sent: Monday, August 16, 2004 11:01 AM
Subject: Re: [INPCRP] Indiana cemetery law
> I have been informed that in regard to cemeteries that are totally
landlocked on private property, access may be gained by a law that refers to
"easement by necessity".
> Does anyone know more about this law? Our family is in a situation with a
cemetery est in 1825 that is totally overgrown and is landlocked within a
wooded isle that sits smack dab in the middle of planted fields. Any help
is appreciated. Thanx.
>
> Teresa
>
> tielking wrote:
> Hi Larry,
>
> Checking my e-mail late (again)....
> Question 1: Nope. This is my #1 complaint with cemetery law. There is no
> right of ingress and egress. I was told by Sen. Bev Gard and Rep. Tom
> Saunders that this issue would be extremely difficult to fight due to
> Indiana being strong in private property rights. I was told Farm Bureau
> would fight this issue and be hard to beat. There are other states that
have
> cemetery access law - West Virginia being one of them. Mark Davis was kind
> to send me a copy of their legislation. We modeled legislation after the
> West Virginia law.
> We had an attorney who works for Historic Landmarks and the Indiana
> Historical Society help us in drafting legislation. But, due to time
> constraints, our drafts were never heard in committee. We had Senator Bev
> Gard ready to introduce and support our legislation if it went to the
> Senate. Same for Rep. Saunders and Rep. Adams (who "authored" HB 1441 "The
> Cemetery Maintenance Bill") if it went to the House.
> If you look at IC 6-1 Chapter 6.8 Assessment of Cemetery Land. Section 15
> addresses a little bit of ingress and egress, but only for a "classified
> cemetery". An owner of a classified cemetery must allow family members and
> descendants at least one day each year to visit the cemetery. That is all
> fine and dandy, but who in their right mind would pay to have a cemetery
> classified as a cemetery?! The owner of the cemetery has to pay to have it
> surveyed and then pay taxes on it and then allow ingress and egress across
> their land for visitation. Surveys are not cheap.
>
>
> Question #2: Unfortunately, legislation is always open to interpretation.
IC
> 35-43-1-2.1 Section 3 (b) states that a person who recklessly, knowingly,
or
> intentionally damages a cemetery, burial ground, facility, monument,
> artifact, ornamentation or enclosure commits a Class A misdemeanor or
Class
> D felony depending on the amount of damage done. If somebody's cows are
out
> in a cemetery, the cows are most likely going to do some damage i.e.
rubbing
> against the stones, trampling stones, breaking the fence, etc....I
> personally think the farmer is liable for the damage. Same thing with
> plowing a cemetery. He/She knew the cemetery was there, but tilled it
> anyway. He/She did it intentionally, recklessly and knowingly.
>
> The law reads: Sec 2.1 (1) A person who acts in a proper and acceptable
> manner as authorized by IC 14-21 other than a person who disturbs the
earth
> for an agricultural purpose UNDER THE EXEMPTION TO IC 14-21 that is
provided
> in IC 14-21-1-24."
> It gets very confusing, but this is how I interpret the law and I know
> others think differently.
>
> I know it isn't much, but that is my two cents worth.
> Angela
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Stephens, Larry V"
> To:
> Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 8:40 AM
> Subject: [INPCRP] Indiana cemetery law
>
>
> > For the Indiana folks: I'd like a quick comment on my observations from
> reading the Indiana codes on cemeteries:
> >
> > I find nothing that gives anyone the "right" to access a cemetery on
> private land.
>
> >
> > I find nothing that says you have to protect a private cemetery, e.g.,
> fence it to keep the cows out. I did see some code about protecting a
> "public" cemetery but my reading of the code is a public cemetery is one
> that has been deeded to a public arm, like the township. A cemetery that
is
> on private land and is still owned by the landowner is not, by my reading,
> "public" and does not have to be protected.
> >
> >
> >
> > If anyone can point me to any IC that says differently, please do.
> >
> > Thanks.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Larry V. Stephens
> > Office of Risk Management
> > 812-855-9758
> > stephenL(a)indiana.edu
> >
> >
> >
> > ==== INPCRP Mailing List ====
> > INPCRP State Coordinator: Brad Manzenberger < bradmanz(a)earthlink.net >
> > http://www.inpcrp.org
> >
>
>
> ==== INPCRP Mailing List ====
> "Show me your cemeteries, and I will tell you what kind of people you
have."
> Benjamin Franklin (1706 - 1790)
>
>
>
> ==== INPCRP Mailing List ====
> Visit the INPCRP on the web at http://www.inpcrp.org
>
>
>
==== INPCRP Mailing List ====
Quote from William Gladstone (1809-1897), three-time Prime Minister of England
and Victorian contemporary of Benjamin Disraeli:
"Show me the manner in which a nation or community
cares for its dead and I will measure with mathematical
exactness the tender mercies of its people, their
respect for the laws of the land, and their loyalty
to high ideals."
In a message dated 8/16/04 11:23:07 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
JRdinius(a)dnr.IN.gov writes:
> The DNR/DHPA is concerned about this, and all cemeteries. As of August 16,
> 2004, we do not have a development plan for anything in Floyd County. I
> will call this morning the Plan Commission for Floyd County and inform them of
> the law and that before this development within 100 feet may occur, they must
> have a development plan approved through our office.
>
>
Jeanie,
I forgot last night to give you what info I have on the Section and Township.
It is Part of Section 4-TWP. 2s - R-5E. Greenville Twp. According to
the plat map 2 acres have been set aside for the sewage treatment plant and the
cemetery. The cemetery deed dated 1866 defines the cemetery as 1560 sq. feet.
This 2 acres comes out of approximately 90 Acres, with 206 houses planned. The
last I heard this morning was that the Sewage Treatment Plant was to be Appx.
75 feet from the Cemetery. Jeanie, i appreciate your quick response. I hope
cooler heads prevail and no damage is done to this final resting place of
some of Floyd Co's True Pioneers.
Projects like this will soon absorb all of Little Floyd Co.
Thanks Again, Have a nice day, sorry to have to bring it up, but time IS
important.
Jackbriles(a)aol.com
Jack E. Briles Sr.
Po Box 444
New Albany, In 47151-0444
(812)282-6585
I have been informed that in regard to cemeteries that are totally landlocked on private property, access may be gained by a law that refers to "easement by necessity".
Does anyone know more about this law? Our family is in a situation with a cemetery est in 1825 that is totally overgrown and is landlocked within a wooded isle that sits smack dab in the middle of planted fields. Any help is appreciated. Thanx.
Teresa
tielking <tielking(a)knightstown.net> wrote:
Hi Larry,
Checking my e-mail late (again)....
Question 1: Nope. This is my #1 complaint with cemetery law. There is no
right of ingress and egress. I was told by Sen. Bev Gard and Rep. Tom
Saunders that this issue would be extremely difficult to fight due to
Indiana being strong in private property rights. I was told Farm Bureau
would fight this issue and be hard to beat. There are other states that have
cemetery access law - West Virginia being one of them. Mark Davis was kind
to send me a copy of their legislation. We modeled legislation after the
West Virginia law.
We had an attorney who works for Historic Landmarks and the Indiana
Historical Society help us in drafting legislation. But, due to time
constraints, our drafts were never heard in committee. We had Senator Bev
Gard ready to introduce and support our legislation if it went to the
Senate. Same for Rep. Saunders and Rep. Adams (who "authored" HB 1441 "The
Cemetery Maintenance Bill") if it went to the House.
If you look at IC 6-1 Chapter 6.8 Assessment of Cemetery Land. Section 15
addresses a little bit of ingress and egress, but only for a "classified
cemetery". An owner of a classified cemetery must allow family members and
descendants at least one day each year to visit the cemetery. That is all
fine and dandy, but who in their right mind would pay to have a cemetery
classified as a cemetery?! The owner of the cemetery has to pay to have it
surveyed and then pay taxes on it and then allow ingress and egress across
their land for visitation. Surveys are not cheap.
Question #2: Unfortunately, legislation is always open to interpretation. IC
35-43-1-2.1 Section 3 (b) states that a person who recklessly, knowingly, or
intentionally damages a cemetery, burial ground, facility, monument,
artifact, ornamentation or enclosure commits a Class A misdemeanor or Class
D felony depending on the amount of damage done. If somebody's cows are out
in a cemetery, the cows are most likely going to do some damage i.e. rubbing
against the stones, trampling stones, breaking the fence, etc....I
personally think the farmer is liable for the damage. Same thing with
plowing a cemetery. He/She knew the cemetery was there, but tilled it
anyway. He/She did it intentionally, recklessly and knowingly.
The law reads: Sec 2.1 (1) A person who acts in a proper and acceptable
manner as authorized by IC 14-21 other than a person who disturbs the earth
for an agricultural purpose UNDER THE EXEMPTION TO IC 14-21 that is provided
in IC 14-21-1-24."
It gets very confusing, but this is how I interpret the law and I know
others think differently.
I know it isn't much, but that is my two cents worth.
Angela
----- Original Message -----
From: "Stephens, Larry V"
To:
Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 8:40 AM
Subject: [INPCRP] Indiana cemetery law
> For the Indiana folks: I'd like a quick comment on my observations from
reading the Indiana codes on cemeteries:
>
> I find nothing that gives anyone the "right" to access a cemetery on
private land.
>
> I find nothing that says you have to protect a private cemetery, e.g.,
fence it to keep the cows out. I did see some code about protecting a
"public" cemetery but my reading of the code is a public cemetery is one
that has been deeded to a public arm, like the township. A cemetery that is
on private land and is still owned by the landowner is not, by my reading,
"public" and does not have to be protected.
>
>
>
> If anyone can point me to any IC that says differently, please do.
>
> Thanks.
>
>
>
>
> Larry V. Stephens
> Office of Risk Management
> 812-855-9758
> stephenL(a)indiana.edu
>
>
>
> ==== INPCRP Mailing List ====
> INPCRP State Coordinator: Brad Manzenberger < bradmanz(a)earthlink.net >
> http://www.inpcrp.org
>
==== INPCRP Mailing List ====
"Show me your cemeteries, and I will tell you what kind of people you have."
Benjamin Franklin (1706 - 1790)
Thanks. There's so much that needs to be done...
-----Original Message-----
From: tielking [mailto:tielking@knightstown.net]
Sent: Sunday, August 15, 2004 10:57 PM
To: INPCRP-L(a)rootsweb.com
Subject: Re: [INPCRP] Indiana cemetery law
Hi Larry,
Checking my e-mail late (again)....
Question 1: Nope. This is my #1 complaint with cemetery law. There is no
right of ingress and egress. I was told by Sen. Bev Gard and Rep. Tom
Saunders that this issue would be extremely difficult to fight due to
Indiana being strong in private property rights. I was told Farm Bureau
would fight this issue and be hard to beat. There are other states that have
cemetery access law - West Virginia being one of them. Mark Davis was kind
to send me a copy of their legislation. We modeled legislation after the
West Virginia law.
We had an attorney who works for Historic Landmarks and the Indiana
Historical Society help us in drafting legislation. But, due to time
constraints, our drafts were never heard in committee. We had Senator Bev
Gard ready to introduce and support our legislation if it went to the
Senate. Same for Rep. Saunders and Rep. Adams (who "authored" HB 1441 "The
Cemetery Maintenance Bill") if it went to the House.
If you look at IC 6-1 Chapter 6.8 Assessment of Cemetery Land. Section 15
addresses a little bit of ingress and egress, but only for a "classified
cemetery". An owner of a classified cemetery must allow family members and
descendants at least one day each year to visit the cemetery. That is all
fine and dandy, but who in their right mind would pay to have a cemetery
classified as a cemetery?! The owner of the cemetery has to pay to have it
surveyed and then pay taxes on it and then allow ingress and egress across
their land for visitation. Surveys are not cheap.
Question #2: Unfortunately, legislation is always open to interpretation. IC
35-43-1-2.1 Section 3 (b) states that a person who recklessly, knowingly, or
intentionally damages a cemetery, burial ground, facility, monument,
artifact, ornamentation or enclosure commits a Class A misdemeanor or Class
D felony depending on the amount of damage done. If somebody's cows are out
in a cemetery, the cows are most likely going to do some damage i.e. rubbing
against the stones, trampling stones, breaking the fence, etc....I
personally think the farmer is liable for the damage. Same thing with
plowing a cemetery. He/She knew the cemetery was there, but tilled it
anyway. He/She did it intentionally, recklessly and knowingly.
The law reads: Sec 2.1 (1) A person who acts in a proper and acceptable
manner as authorized by IC 14-21 other than a person who disturbs the earth
for an agricultural purpose UNDER THE EXEMPTION TO IC 14-21 that is provided
in IC 14-21-1-24."
It gets very confusing, but this is how I interpret the law and I know
others think differently.
I know it isn't much, but that is my two cents worth.
Angela
----- Original Message -----
From: "Stephens, Larry V" <stephenl(a)indiana.edu>
To: <INPCRP-L(a)rootsweb.com>
Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 8:40 AM
Subject: [INPCRP] Indiana cemetery law
> For the Indiana folks: I'd like a quick comment on my observations from
reading the Indiana codes on cemeteries:
>
> I find nothing that gives anyone the "right" to access a cemetery on
private land.
>
> I find nothing that says you have to protect a private cemetery, e.g.,
fence it to keep the cows out. I did see some code about protecting a
"public" cemetery but my reading of the code is a public cemetery is one
that has been deeded to a public arm, like the township. A cemetery that is
on private land and is still owned by the landowner is not, by my reading,
"public" and does not have to be protected.
>
>
>
> If anyone can point me to any IC that says differently, please do.
>
> Thanks.
>
>
>
>
> Larry V. Stephens
> Office of Risk Management
> 812-855-9758
> stephenL(a)indiana.edu
>
>
>
> ==== INPCRP Mailing List ====
> INPCRP State Coordinator: Brad Manzenberger < bradmanz(a)earthlink.net >
> http://www.inpcrp.org
>
==== INPCRP Mailing List ====
"Show me your cemeteries, and I will tell you what kind of people you have."
Benjamin Franklin (1706 - 1790)
Jeanie,
Sorry to have to bother you.
We have a Subdivision coming up for vote by the Floyd Co. Zoning Board Monday
night at 6 PM EDT. (Tonight) The lady who is trying to find out something
about the "Girdner' Pioneer cemetery, Dolly Jenkins contacted me to see if I
could find out if they had approval to build around it, and fence it, from The DNR
and the DHPA. The cemetery dating back to 1864 is included in the Plat of 178
houses on a little over 100 acres. They have the cemetery on the Map, but
they are building the waste water plant next to the cemetery.
The biggest problem is, Have they applied for permission to put the
plant next to the cemetery, and if they haven't, why not. Does the DNR or the
DHPA care about this cemetery enough to ask for a description of what they have
planned? They just announced they were bringing it up this Monday (Again)
They will have a Treatment building and sewage lines all around the
cemetery. Do they have to file a plan as to what they are planning for the
cemetery, since they definitely will be installing lines well within the 100 ft.
zone? Every one down here in Floyd Co. claim to know nothing about the Law until
I bring it up.
If the DNR and the DHPA don't care, I and others may have Pickets
and the Louisville Ky. TV stations, and the Louisville Courier Newspaper
covering the work when they start the building of any kind when they are within 100
ft of the cemetery, and especially when they start the waste treatment plant.
Lets see if anyone cares,
or does the Law mean nothing.
Can you check and tell me before 4:30 EDT if they have filed anything,
or if they need to. This is screwed up bad. One of the zoning board members
owns the ground.
I don't care what they build, nor how many, I WORRY ABOUT THE CEMETERY. It's
not the board members family. I don't ask for much, but this needs attention
bad. Hoping to hear one way or another,
Do I have a Leg to stand on. ??? Thank you for at least reading this, Hope
you can get me an answer today. I appreciate your help, and I understand your
position.
Jackbriles(a)aol.com
Jack E. Briles Sr.
Po Box 444
New Albany, In 47151-0444
(812)282-6585
Jack
I received my t-shirts in the mail on Saturday. They look nice. I
agree........they do run a little big, but I plan on wearing my a lot and I
am sure washing them will shrink them a little.
Angela
----- Original Message -----
From: "Theresa Berghoff" <tres257(a)yahoo.com>
To: <INPCRP-L(a)rootsweb.com>
Sent: Saturday, August 14, 2004 5:52 PM
Subject: [INPCRP] t-shirt FYI
> I just got my INPCRP t-shirts in the mail today.The X sizes seem to run a
little big. That's probably adjustable if washed in hot water & dried in the
dryer.
>
> Theresa
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Mail - Helps protect you from nasty viruses.
>
>
> ==== INPCRP Mailing List ====
> THIS IS A CEMETERY -----
> "Lives are commemorated - deaths are recorded - families
> are reunited - memories are made tangible - and love is
> undisguised. This is a cemetery.
> "Communities accord respect, families bestow reverence,
> historians seek information and our heritage is thereby enriched.
> "Testimonies of devotion, pride and remembrance are carved
> in stone to pay warm tribute to accomplishments and to the life -
> not the death - of a loved one. The cemetery is homeland for family
> memorials that are a sustaining source of comfort to the living.
> "A cemetery is a history of people - a perpetual record of
> yesterday and sanctuary of peace and quiet today. A cemetery
> exists because every life is worth loving and remembering - always."
> --Author unknown -- Seen at a monument dealer in West Union, IA
>
I'm not sure who did this. The cemetery is still active and is well kept. I
don't know if it's public or private. There is a number on a sign to call
for sales but I haven't called it yet.
I stopped by this cemetery because it is the final resting place of two
Revolutionary War veterans, Edward Hall (whose fairly new military marker
has been damaged likely by the lawn mower) and John George who is said to
have been the drummer boy for George Washington during the war.
There were some other stones that had been repaired in the same manner as
those in the pics but that weren't as in as bad of condition as these three.
Brad
-----Original Message-----
From: Theresa Berghoff [mailto:tres257@yahoo.com]
Sent: Thursday, August 26, 2004 12:43 AM
To: INPCRP-L(a)rootsweb.com
Subject: [INPCRP] Unidentified subject!
I just checked out the "How NOT to repair a headstone" feature on the INPCRP
website.
I was shocked by the stones from the Round Hill Cemetery in Perry Twsp.,
Marion Co.
Who made this mess?
Thanks Brad for the horrible images. They certainly make a point.
Theresa
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==== INPCRP Mailing List ====
"Show me your cemeteries, and I will tell you what kind of people you have."
Benjamin Franklin (1706 - 1790)