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I said it 2-3 years ago when it all started. The cemetery registry is just
another way of creating another agency with showing lots of paper work
across their desks and before it's over, they will find a way to ask for
funding to siphon off administrative costs with essentially nothing being
done to solve the problem. They just raised the fees for death certificates
from the state and the county can set their own fees, so tell me who they
are foolin'. How much of that money is going to go to fix the problem vs.
staying in Indy? They've done it before and they'll do it again. If the
cemetery commissions get any at all, the trustees will have their hand out,
too. The problem is not about lack of money. The problem is about lack of
morals. Enforcement is the only thing can help that.
Jon Andrews
raising the death certificates by $3.00. Now get this.....the money would go
to the county cemetery commissions for restoration/maintenance of our
pioneer cemeteries. this may be another creative way to get what we want
and have some funding along with it! Now, this is in the early stages of
planning. Nothing has been written up yet. Does anyone have comment on this?
Rep. Saunders did say this money would go through the DNR; and Jeannie did
say that the DNR must be made part of this planning stage from Day one.
_________________________________________________________________
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Excellent article Mark. Your dedication is an example to all of us. Keep
the faith, and keep up the good work. Every day is a blessing, and you make
a difference each day.
Helen
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark Kreps" <mjkreps(a)tmcsmail.com>
To: <INPCRP-L(a)rootsweb.com>
Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2003 3:43 PM
Subject: Re: [INPCRP] Loacal Cemetery Story
> Mark Davis does such an excellent job. This kind of attention will help
us
> all. I can't say enough
> about Mark's attitude. It goes a long way in getting us on the same page
and
> in the right direction.
> Mark's love for the veterans and their sacrifice goes unequalled. He cares
> like each veteran and
> their marker is one of his ancestors. He is quite an inspiration.
>
> Mark Kreps
> Muncie, IN
> mjkreps(a)tmcsmail.com
>
> -------Original Message-------
>
> From: INPCRP-L(a)rootsweb.com
> Date: Sunday, October 26, 2003 02:14:36 PM
> To: INPCRP-L(a)rootsweb.com
> Subject: Re: [INPCRP] Loacal Cemetery Story
>
> Excellent. The more articles we see involving people on this list and
> others,
> the better it becomes for the rest of us.
> This article was well balanced and touched on exactly why we do what we
> do.
>
> Lee Creed
> Greencastle
>
>
> ==== INPCRP Mailing List ====
> Scott Satterthwaite < ssattert(a)localnet.com > is the INPCRP State
> Coordinator. Feel free to contact him directly regarding questions or
> comments you may have about the INPCRP.
>
>
> .
>
>
>
> ==== INPCRP Mailing List ====
> THIS IS A CEMETERY -----
> "Lives are commemorated - deaths are recorded - families
> are reunited - memories are made tangible - and love is
> undisguised. This is a cemetery.
> "Communities accord respect, families bestow reverence,
> historians seek information and our heritage is thereby enriched.
> "Testimonies of devotion, pride and remembrance are carved
> in stone to pay warm tribute to accomplishments and to the life -
> not the death - of a loved one. The cemetery is homeland for family
> memorials that are a sustaining source of comfort to the living.
> "A cemetery is a history of people - a perpetual record of
> yesterday and sanctuary of peace and quiet today. A cemetery
> exists because every life is worth loving and remembering - always."
> --Author unknown -- Seen at a monument dealer in West Union, IA
>
Mark Davis does such an excellent job. This kind of attention will help us
all. I can't say enough
about Mark's attitude. It goes a long way in getting us on the same page and
in the right direction.
Mark's love for the veterans and their sacrifice goes unequalled. He cares
like each veteran and
their marker is one of his ancestors. He is quite an inspiration.
Mark Kreps
Muncie, IN
mjkreps(a)tmcsmail.com
-------Original Message-------
From: INPCRP-L(a)rootsweb.com
Date: Sunday, October 26, 2003 02:14:36 PM
To: INPCRP-L(a)rootsweb.com
Subject: Re: [INPCRP] Loacal Cemetery Story
Excellent. The more articles we see involving people on this list and
others,
the better it becomes for the rest of us.
This article was well balanced and touched on exactly why we do what we
do.
Lee Creed
Greencastle
==== INPCRP Mailing List ====
Scott Satterthwaite < ssattert(a)localnet.com > is the INPCRP State
Coordinator. Feel free to contact him directly regarding questions or
comments you may have about the INPCRP.
.
Excellent. The more articles we see involving people on this list and
others,
the better it becomes for the rest of us.
This article was well balanced and touched on exactly why we do what we
do.
Lee Creed
Greencastle
I'm looking for John Walters. I have a video tape of a pioneer cemetery that I'd like to send to him to get an idea of how much it would cost to get a couple of the stones restored. I plan to eventually get the whole cemetery done.
John, e-mail me at mdf1959(a)aol.com.
Thanks,
Madonna Marks
Hello everyone,
We wanted to give you all a legislative update as to what has been happening here recently.
On October 21, Rep. Tom Saunders; Vernon Jewell-Bartholomew Co. Treasurer and County Gov't Study Commission member; Cris West, Bartholomew Co.; and INPCRP members: Mark Kreps, Delaware Co.; Theresa Berghoff, Marion Co.; Donna Tauber, Bud Bush and me, Henry Co. met at the Spiceland library in Henry Co.
The meeting went well. I think we may have overwhelmed Rep. Saunders with all the pioneer cemetery problems we are facing; but he really wants to help us.
Rep. Saunders told us of his discussion with Rep. Tiny Adams about raising the death certificates by $3.00. Now get this.....the money would go to the county cemetery commissions for restoration/maintenance of our pioneer cemeteries. Now we all know that not every county has a cemetery commission. Since the money ONLY goes to cemetery commissions, it is possible that this would be an incentive for other counties to establish one. So let's say we have 14 active cemetery commissions - what money is earned from the $3 raise is divided between those 14 commissions. That could be a nice chunk of change, but as other cemetery commissions are established the money would be less and less for each cemetery commission. So instead of 14 commissions receiving and dividing the money, hopefully it will turn out to be 92 counties sharing the monies. Since it has been said that the word "may" in IC 23-14-67 "Care of cemeteries by Counties" cannot be changed to "shall", this may be another c!
reative way to get what we want and have some funding along with it! Now, this is in the early stages of planning. Nothing has been written up yet. Does anyone have comment on this? Rep. Saunders did say this money would go through the DNR; and Jeannie did say that the DNR must be made part of this planning stage from Day one. Theresa and I gave Rep. Saunders Jeannie's contact info. Tom also said that we would need a sponsor of our bill if it goes to the senate. I suggested Sen. Beverly Gard.
We also talked about ownership of the cemeteries. Who owns the abandoned cemeteries? We need to have a clearer picture of who owns what and who is the responsible party for restoration and maintenance.
I pushed the access issue. I think that is one of the main problems we face. He said we can ammend it to a bill. That we can try it, but don't count on it. I must give Helen Wildermuth a lot of credit for letting me know of West Virginia's cemetery access law for cemeteries on private property. It passed in 2000. I think it is absolutlely wonderful! You can see a synopsis of it here: http://www.wvculture.org/history/0900news.html
I added some language to it, and gave copies to Rep. Saunders and Vernon Jewell. I also sent Rep. Tiny Adams a copy as well.
Vernon Jewell stated that the Indiana Funeral Directors Association might be interested and support us.
Cris brought Bartholomew Co. maps that she did herself that showed the cemeteries in her county - who owned them and the condition they were in. She did a great job on them. She also gave Rep. Saunders some pictures of different cemeteries in her county. Cris brought a lot of suggestions of changes to legislation and gave him a copy of her suggestions.
I have a correction to make. To the Baldwins, I stated that I thought Peggy Welch did not seem interested in the pioneer cemetery issues (my opinion from watching her reactions at the study commission meeting). Tom said that she WAS interested and so was Sen. Becky Skillman.
The meeting lasted about 2 hours.
Donna did talk with Sen. Gard. She supports us! Sen. Gard also spoke with Chairman Reigsecker and expressed her disappointment with the committee for not "really getting into the issues".
I spoke with Rep. Tiny Adams today on the phone. He is very interested and wants to help. He said he would help in any way he could. He said the he and Tom Saunders work very well together. Tom would be the Republican author and Tiny would be the Democrat author. He really made me feel good after talking with him. He was frank, but also very supportive. He didn't think that the $3 raise in death certificates would pass. He said he had to work 7 years on a bill to get it to pass - four years as a constituent and three years as a legislator. He said you cannot give up. You have to keep trying. He said we will need a lot of support. I said we will have it (I am talking about you guys!). He said this may take years to get accomplished. He asked me if anyone from Delware Co. was involved in this. I said yes! Mark Kreps. [Mark: Tiny could not say enough good things about you! He said you were a go-getter and told me of some of the things you have done. Great job!]
We have another legislative meeting scheduled for Thursday Oct. 30, 2003 at the Indiana Historical Society at 10:00 a.m. We need you to be there if you can. It will be held in the Multi-purpose room on the Canal level. Park in the IHS lot that faces New York St. As you face the IHS building from the parking lot, the entrance will be on your left. The door is at the end of a long covered walkway. Then you can take the elevator down to the canal level. Katherine Dill from IHS was kind enough to get everything set up for this meeting.
If you need directions to IHS: http://www.indianahistory.org/directions.php
I hope I covered everything. Does anyone else who attended the meeting on the 21st want to add anything?
Angela Tielking
Good discussion...but the fact remains that we will be hard pressed to get
any legislation passed that either raises money for the purpose of cemetery
restoration and preservation or that passes expenses on to another level of
government. The state hates it when the feds do this to them and they really try to
not to pass the buck in the same manner. When I was county clerk we had
issues that came up that were in the same category. The legislation that dealt
with procedures usually were supported, those that dealt with fees or money,
well, that was another story... The best you can hope for will be keeping
certain things an option from county to county and let the local officials handle it
the way they see fit. (Or not handle it the way they see fit). But either
way, it will remain a local problem and is best handled at that level. (ie:
finding sympathetic candidates and working to get them elected) That is what the
legislators will be more in favor of. However, we do need them to clarify
much of the language as it exists today and put a little more bite in the
language to 'encourage' cemeteries to be maintained. Our friends from Henry County
have done much to begin the process, and with Rep. Saunders involved, you have
a great spokesperson with which to count on.
Kyle D. Conrad
Brook, IN
I know there are other messages on this subject but I have to add my opinion, also.
Someone definitely needs to educate Mr. Rooda. The cemeteries in Monroe County not in the care of a church or cemetery association are in generally poor and neglected condition. There are exceptions - and the exceptions are not always the few in the care of the trustees - but I can take him to any number of abandoned cemeteries that need care.
Larry V. Stephens
Office of Risk Management
812-855-9758
stephenL(a)indiana.edu
-----Original Message-----
From: Mary Baldwin [mailto:mjbaldwin0@yahoo.com]
Sent: Saturday, October 18, 2003 8:56 AM
To: INPCRP-L(a)rootsweb.com
Subject: [INPCRP] Minutes
Just some thoughts we had from reading minutes of the Oct. 9, 2003 County Government Study Commission.
This letter is not to single out just one committe member, but to demonstrate this is the same conversation heard in previous legislative subcommitte meetings we have attended. It is always brought up that 'cemeteries are taken care of'.
Below is quote from the minutes'
'Mr. John Rooda, Commission member, expressed his concern that there could be confusion over who would determine when a cemetery is in need if the responsibility for cemetery care shifts from townships to counties. Mr. Rooda viewed this as an unfunded mandate placed upon the counties.
Hi Angela,
Clause (b) as in
(b) This chapter does not apply to a cemetery located on land on
which property taxes are assessed and paid under IC 6-1.1-4.
This is the clause that makes the Trustees Responsibilities non existant because most cemeteries are on property that have taxes paid.
This clause is not in the Law for The Counties' Resposiblities. So the Cemetry Commissions appointed by the Commissioners is the only office left that actually has and obligation to take care of our States Pioneer cemeteries.
This is where we hope they do not add a clause (B).
Tkanks and Keep up the good work. Stay after them.
Ron and Mary Jane Baldwin
PS. We wrote Representative Peggy Welch several months ago when we noticed her as Vice Chair of this Committee. We told her of our concerns about this same thing. I'm disappointed that when a Committe member said, 'Most Trustees take care of their cemeteries.' She didn't say. 'What? Because the way the Law is written, Trustees don't have to care for cemeteries, they are on private property.'
In Monroe County, we have about 300 cemeteries. BeanBlossom Township with the most (42). Legally only one of them in under her care. Polk Township has 1 Township Cemetery. Bloomington Township has 1. All the rest are Church Cemeteries, Private (active) Cemeteries and the other 250 little cemeteries on private property (unprotected and neglected). (UNPROTECTED AND NEGLECTED) because Legislation passed this Clause (B).
LOL, stepping off soap box.
GTielking <tielking(a)knightstown.net> wrote:
Hi Ron and Mary Jane,
I understand your frustrations. I wish that for one of the legislative
meetings it could have been a one day field trip. We all get together on a
bus and go around the State pointing out our cemeteries, but we all know
that will not happen.
I brought a picture of a Hancock Co. cemetery to the first meeting, and they
passed it around. Others who testified at the meeting brought pictures. We
also included pictures of different pioneer cemeteries from around the State
in our handout. When we attended the second meeting, believe me, eyes were
opened. If Chairman Riegsecker wasn't so interested in the septic issues, I
really think we would be going back to another meeting since so many were
vocal on the Study Commission about pursuing the cemetery issues.
Yes, township trustees and a county cemetery commission can request a tax
levy for cemetery maintenance/restoration. Even though the money would be a
great help to our cemeteries, most are not going to enact the tax. Why?
Because they want to make sure they are re-elected.
I am curious though - how many township trustees DO levy a tax for
cemeteries? Does anyone know? How about cemetery commissions? I know that
Hancock and Henry have not levied a tax.
I am not sure what you mean by not adding a clause (b) to the Counties'
cemetery responsibilities?
You are welcome to get on the soap box any time. That is what this list is
for. We need to discuss the cemetery issues and the best way to go about it.
Everyone's opinion is important.
Sincerely,
Angela Tielking
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mary Baldwin"
To:
Sent: Saturday, October 18, 2003 8:56 AM
Subject: [INPCRP] Minutes
> Just some thoughts we had from reading minutes of the Oct. 9, 2003 County
Government Study Commission.
>
> This letter is not to single out just one committe member, but to
demonstrate this is the same conversation heard in previous legislative
subcommitte meetings we have attended. It is always brought up that
'cemeteries are taken care of'.
>
> Below is quote from the minutes'
>
> 'Mr. John Rooda, Commission member, expressed his concern that there could
be confusion over who would determine when a cemetery is in need if the
responsibility for cemetery care shifts from townships to counties. Mr.
Rooda viewed this as an unfunded mandate placed upon the counties.
>
> He added that a majority of township trustees do a good job with
cemeteries and that there are only a few who do not. Mr. Rooda was concerned
that counties may not have the same interest in cemeteries as do township
trustees.'
>
> As for Mr. Rooda's concern over responsibility for cemetery care shifting
from township to county, an uneducated committee such as this passed clause
(b) (underlined) in the law below, which removes the trustees responsibility
for 95.9 % of cemeteries because they are located on property on which taxes
are paid.
>
> As for majority of trustees doing a good job on cemeteries, I invite
everyone on this committee to pick any of the approximate 300 cemeteries in
Monroe County and I will gladly organize a site visit.
>
> Because of the law below, I do not see how a trustee can justify spending
township funds on cemeteries, because most of them are on private property.
>
> IC 23-14-68
> Chapter 68. Care of Cemeteries by Townships
>
> IC 23-14-68-1
> Application of chapter
> Sec. 1. (a) This chapter applies to each cemetery that:
> (1) is without funds for maintenance;
> (2) was in existence on February 28, 1939; and
> (3) is operated by a nonprofit organization or is not managed by any
viable organization.
> (b) This chapter does not apply to a cemetery located on land on which
property taxes are assessed and paid under IC 6-1.1-4.
> As added by P.L.52-1997, SEC.42.
>
> As for unfunded comment. The below laws provides funds
>
> IC 23-14-68-4
> Appropriations for care and maintenance; cemetery tax
> Sec. 4. (a) The township shall appropriate enough money to provide for the
care, repair, and maintenance of each cemetery described in section 1(a) of
this chapter that is located within the township. Funds shall be
appropriated under this subsection in the same manner as other township
appropriations.
> (b) The township may levy a township cemetery tax to create a fund for
maintenance of cemeteries under this chapter. If a fund has not been
provided for maintenance of cemeteries under this chapter, part of the
township fund may be used.
> As added by P.L.52-1997, SEC.42.
>
> IC 23-14-67-3
> Annual tax for restoration and maintenance
> Sec. 3. A county cemetery commission may request the levy of an annual tax
for the purpose of restoring and maintaining one (1) or more cemeteries
described in section 1 of this chapter that are located in the county. The
tax may not exceed fifty cents ($0.50) on each one hundred dollars ($100) of
assessed valuation of property in the county.
> As added by P.L.52-1997, SEC.41.
>
> Thanks for letting us get on the soap box.
>
> PLEASE, do not add a clause (b) to the Counties' cemetery responsiblities.
>
> Ron and Mary Jane Baldwin
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Do you Yahoo!?
> The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search
>
>
> ==== INPCRP Mailing List ====
> Quote from William Gladstone (1809-1897), three-time Prime Minister of
England
> and Victorian contemporary of Benjamin Disraeli:
> "Show me the manner in which a nation or community
> cares for its dead and I will measure with mathematical
> exactness the tender mercies of its people, their
> respect for the laws of the land, and their loyalty
> to high ideals."
>
==== INPCRP Mailing List ====
Quote from William Gladstone (1809-1897), three-time Prime Minister of England
and Victorian contemporary of Benjamin Disraeli:
"Show me the manner in which a nation or community
cares for its dead and I will measure with mathematical
exactness the tender mercies of its people, their
respect for the laws of the land, and their loyalty
to high ideals."
---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search
Just some thoughts we had from reading minutes of the Oct. 9, 2003 County Government Study Commission.
This letter is not to single out just one committe member, but to demonstrate this is the same conversation heard in previous legislative subcommitte meetings we have attended. It is always brought up that 'cemeteries are taken care of'.
Below is quote from the minutes�
�Mr. John Rooda, Commission member, expressed his concern that there could be confusion over who would determine when a cemetery is in need if the responsibility for cemetery care shifts from townships to counties. Mr. Rooda viewed this as an unfunded mandate placed upon the counties.
He added that a majority of township trustees do a good job with cemeteries and that there are only a few who do not. Mr. Rooda was concerned that counties may not have the same interest in cemeteries as do township trustees.�
As for Mr. Rooda�s concern over responsibility for cemetery care shifting from township to county, an uneducated committee such as this passed clause (b) (underlined) in the law below, which removes the trustees responsibility for 95.9 % of cemeteries because they are located on property on which taxes are paid.
As for majority of trustees doing a good job on cemeteries, I invite everyone on this committee to pick any of the approximate 300 cemeteries in Monroe County and I will gladly organize a site visit.
Because of the law below, I do not see how a trustee can justify spending township funds on cemeteries, because most of them are on private property.
IC 23-14-68
Chapter 68. Care of Cemeteries by Townships
IC 23-14-68-1
Application of chapter
Sec. 1. (a) This chapter applies to each cemetery that:
(1) is without funds for maintenance;
(2) was in existence on February 28, 1939; and
(3) is operated by a nonprofit organization or is not managed by any viable organization.
(b) This chapter does not apply to a cemetery located on land on which property taxes are assessed and paid under IC 6-1.1-4.
As added by P.L.52-1997, SEC.42.
As for unfunded comment. The below laws provides funds
IC 23-14-68-4
Appropriations for care and maintenance; cemetery tax
Sec. 4. (a) The township shall appropriate enough money to provide for the care, repair, and maintenance of each cemetery described in section 1(a) of this chapter that is located within the township. Funds shall be appropriated under this subsection in the same manner as other township appropriations.
(b) The township may levy a township cemetery tax to create a fund for maintenance of cemeteries under this chapter. If a fund has not been provided for maintenance of cemeteries under this chapter, part of the township fund may be used.
As added by P.L.52-1997, SEC.42.
IC 23-14-67-3
Annual tax for restoration and maintenance
Sec. 3. A county cemetery commission may request the levy of an annual tax for the purpose of restoring and maintaining one (1) or more cemeteries described in section 1 of this chapter that are located in the county. The tax may not exceed fifty cents ($0.50) on each one hundred dollars ($100) of assessed valuation of property in the county.
As added by P.L.52-1997, SEC.41.
Thanks for letting us get on the soap box.
PLEASE, do not add a clause (b) to the Counties' cemetery responsiblities.
Ron and Mary Jane Baldwin
---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search
Hello everyone,
The minutes of the Oct. 9, 2003 County Government Study Commission are ready to view at:
http://www.in.gov/legislative/interim/committee/cgsc.html
It is labeled as Oct. 9, 1999, but once you click on it you will see it is for Oct. 9, 2003. :-)
Take care,
Angela Tielking
Joan,
Sorry I did not get back with you sooner on this. We are still experiencing
e-mail problems with our computer.
IC 23-14-67 "Care of Cemeteries by Counties"
http://www.ai.org/legislative/ic/code/title23/ar14/ch67.html
IC 23-14-68 "Care of Cemeteries by Townships"
http://www.ai.org/legislative/ic/code/title23/ar14/ch68.html
You can also this info on the INPCRP home page with links to the two laws
mentioned above, and also other cemetery related laws.
Good luck!
Angela
----- Original Message -----
From: "joanwray" <ejwray(a)ccrtc.com>
To: <INPCRP-L(a)rootsweb.com>
Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 2003 3:59 AM
Subject: Re: [INPCRP] Legislative update
> Angela:
>
> Thanks for the reply. Where can I find copies of the laws you mentioned?
>
> We are backed by the local Historical Society, but they are having
problems
> as most small organizations do with their own items.
>
> Joan
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "GTielking" <tielking(a)knightstown.net>
> To: <INPCRP-L(a)rootsweb.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 2003 12:11 AM
> Subject: Re: [INPCRP] Legislative update
>
>
> > Joan,
> >
> > Don't give up. You CAN do it. Take pictures with you of the cemeteries
in
> > your county that are neglected and abused. Pictures speak a thousand
words
> > they say; and they do. Show them the laws IC 23-14-67 and IC 23-14-68.
> Bring
> > as many people who supports a cemetery commission in your county with
you
> to
> > the meeting. For people who cannot attend the commissioners' meeting,
have
> > them write letters, send an e-mail, or make a phone call to each of the
> > county commissioners.
> > Do not get discouraged if they don't seem interested or will have to
> "think
> > about it later". Keep at them. The squeaky wheel gets the grease. Try to
> get
> > your Historical and Genealogy Societies involved. You can do it. Good
luck
> > and keep us informed.
> > Sincerely,
> > Angela Tielking
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "joanwray" <ejwray(a)ccrtc.com>
> > To: <INPCRP-L(a)rootsweb.com>
> > Sent: Tuesday, October 14, 2003 5:51 PM
> > Subject: Re: [INPCRP] Legislative update
> >
> >
> > > Angela and Donna:
> > >
> > > Thanks for taking the bull by the horn and being our representatives
in
> > this
> > > movement.
> > >
> > > We don't have a "cemetery commission" in Tipton County. I have
> approached
> > > the County Commissioners once. I think I need more information for
> myself
> > > before I can make any movement again.
> > >
> > > In the meantime, I am getting acquainted with the different County
> > Trustees
> > > in our county. Some are very interested in our work and appreciate it
> and
> > > provide funds for materials if it is an abandoned one. Some have not
> > > allocated any money for repairs!!! They pay for mowing, but not
putting
> > > back the stones. So I have to work on these.
> > >
> > > I hope the counties like us would be able to get assistance through
the
> > > trustees in your movement. You can only take one step at a time.
> > Hopefully
> > > we will encourage others. Last year were three and this year were are
> > six.
> > >
> > > Cold today, looks like winter. I think we are about ready to whine it
> > > down....
> > > we have done 54 stones in the last month and every one had to be
epoxyed
> > > back together as well as cleaned. I never seen so much black on
stones
> as
> > > there has been in this little cemetery.
> > >
> > > Love to all,
> > >
> > > Joan Wray
> > > Tipton County
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "GTielking" <tielking(a)knightstown.net>
> > > To: <INPCRP-L(a)rootsweb.com>
> > > Sent: Tuesday, October 14, 2003 2:42 PM
> > > Subject: [INPCRP] Legislative update
> > >
> > >
> > > > Hello everybody! I wanted to give an update as to what has been
> > happening
> > > since Thursday Oct. 9 (after the County Gov't Study Commission
meeting).
> > > >
> > > > Rep. Tom Saunders returned my phone call Sunday evening. He said
after
> > the
> > > legislative meeting he and others had their own meeting out in the
> > hallway.
> > > They were Rep. Saunders, Rep. Tiny Adams, Vernon Jewell and Garland
> > > Ferrell. They know more needs to be done and they want to help us.
(The
> > > reason we were not devoted much time was that there are some septic
> > problems
> > > occuring in Chairman Reigsecker's area and he wanted to see the septic
> > > issues resolved).
> > > >
> > > > Even though we didn't ask for money, Rep. Saunders said WE NEED
MONEY.
> > > They are talking about raising the death certificates by $3.00. That
> money
> > > MUST be spent on the pioneer cemeteries. He did say that the money
> earned
> > > with this increase would go to the DNR and then the money would be
> > dispersed
> > > depending on how many pioneer cemeteries each county had. When I asked
> to
> > > who would receive this money, he answered the cemetery associations. I
> > said,
> > > "well, if there is a county cemetery commission, the money should go
to
> > > them." He agreed. Rep. Saunders would be the Republican author and
Rep.
> > > Adams would be the Democrat author.
> > > >
> > > > The problem is that not every county in Indiana has a cemetery
> > commission.
> > > Chairman Reigsecker already said that changing the word "may" to
"shall"
> > in
> > > IC 23-14-67 would not happen. They cannot mandate the counties to do
> that.
> > > So...since county cemetery commissions are not appointed in every
> county,
> > > who will the money go to? Rep. Saunders was in a hurry and I was not
> able
> > to
> > > question him further.
> > > >
> > > > Here is some other good news: He did say that we could go ahead and
> > write
> > > our own legislative changes or additions ourselves and to get it to
him
> by
> > > Nov. 1st and he could see what he could do. He said not to get crazy
and
> > do
> > > 30 changes. Focus on what we really want to accomplish. He said he
could
> > try
> > > the access issues, but he doubts anything will pass regarding that.
> > > >
> > > > We still have another chance to get more accomplished this year! If
> > anyone
> > > is interested in participating in a "legislative workshop" with the
> Henry
> > > County crew, we are meeting Tuesday Oct. 21 at 6:00 p.m. at the
> Spiceland
> > > Library in Spiceland, Henry Co., Indiana. If you need directions,
please
> > > contact Donna Tauber : dtauber(a)kiva.net
> > > >
> > > > Thanks for listening,
> > > > Angela Tielking
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ==== INPCRP Mailing List ====
> > > > Quote from William Gladstone (1809-1897), three-time Prime Minister
of
> > > England
> > > > and Victorian contemporary of Benjamin Disraeli:
> > > > "Show me the manner in which a nation or community
> > > > cares for its dead and I will measure with mathematical
> > > > exactness the tender mercies of its people, their
> > > > respect for the laws of the land, and their loyalty
> > > > to high ideals."
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ==== INPCRP Mailing List ====
> > > Scott Satterthwaite < ssattert(a)localnet.com > is the INPCRP State
> > Coordinator. Feel free to contact him directly regarding questions or
> > comments you may have about the INPCRP.
> > >
> >
> >
> > ==== INPCRP Mailing List ====
> > Scott Satterthwaite < ssattert(a)localnet.com > is the INPCRP State
> Coordinator. Feel free to contact him directly regarding questions or
> comments you may have about the INPCRP.
> >
> >
>
>
>
> ==== INPCRP Mailing List ====
> Scott Satterthwaite < ssattert(a)localnet.com > is the INPCRP State
Coordinator. Feel free to contact him directly regarding questions or
comments you may have about the INPCRP.
>
In a message dated 10/15/2003 4:15:50 AM Central Daylight Time,
ejwray(a)ccrtc.com writes:
> Now, I am wondering if we
> are doing harm by clearing these cemeteries to let in the equipment for
> mowing. I am sure this damage was done by the equipment.
It's not the equipment, but the operator, who has done the damage. Encourage
the caretaker to, well, take care in mowing. If the problem persists, keep
track of additional damage and take the information to the trustee (or whomever
oversees the cemetery). There is no doubt Joan raises an issue that will
have to be dealt with as these cemeteries start having regular maintenance. It's
no different than having the exposure of the local media only to invite
vandals who didn't know that a particular cemetery existed. (Gee, we missed one).
It's darned if you do and darned if you don't. But which one is in the best
interest overall? Restoration and preservation....
-Kyle
Hello All:
I am working currently in a very old abandoned cemetery. Maybe the first in
Tipton County, I don't really know. My point is that a 83 year old visited
us last week and had a picture he had taken he said around 20 years ago of
his ancestor showing two stones in tact surrounded by brambles, etc. When
we started in this cleared and mowed cemetery as it is today, all of the
stones (tables/slab mostly) were down, most were broken into several pieces,
etc. Included were the two shown on the photo. Now, I am wondering if we
are doing harm by clearing these cemeteries to let in the equipment for
mowing. I am sure this damage was done by the equipment. This is just my
opinion. But you would have to see it to know what I am talking about.
Keep up the good work. We are about done for the season as it was really
cold last Friday.
Joan
Tipton County
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lee" <Armytruck(a)webtv.net>
To: <INPCRP-L(a)rootsweb.com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 14, 2003 6:19 PM
Subject: Re: [INPCRP] Legislative update
>
> I think Joan is onto something here, as
> I know one commission that paid a guy
> $600 to whack down some brush, it promptly grew back. They also do only
> mowing, or rather they pay someone who claims they mow it, odd as it
> gets big enough to go to seed in several cemeteries. Most trustee's
> seem willing
> to get involved at some point, and the ones that don't, usually aren't
> trustee
> for more than a term or two. There are several outstanding commissions
> around
> but even they tend to work with the trustees as much as possible.
>
>
> Lee Creed
> Greencastle
>
>
> ==== INPCRP Mailing List ====
> THIS IS A CEMETERY -----
> "Lives are commemorated - deaths are recorded - families
> are reunited - memories are made tangible - and love is
> undisguised. This is a cemetery.
> "Communities accord respect, families bestow reverence,
> historians seek information and our heritage is thereby enriched.
> "Testimonies of devotion, pride and remembrance are carved
> in stone to pay warm tribute to accomplishments and to the life -
> not the death - of a loved one. The cemetery is homeland for family
> memorials that are a sustaining source of comfort to the living.
> "A cemetery is a history of people - a perpetual record of
> yesterday and sanctuary of peace and quiet today. A cemetery
> exists because every life is worth loving and remembering - always."
> --Author unknown -- Seen at a monument dealer in West Union, IA
>
>
>
Angela:
Thanks for the reply. Where can I find copies of the laws you mentioned?
We are backed by the local Historical Society, but they are having problems
as most small organizations do with their own items.
Joan
----- Original Message -----
From: "GTielking" <tielking(a)knightstown.net>
To: <INPCRP-L(a)rootsweb.com>
Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 2003 12:11 AM
Subject: Re: [INPCRP] Legislative update
> Joan,
>
> Don't give up. You CAN do it. Take pictures with you of the cemeteries in
> your county that are neglected and abused. Pictures speak a thousand words
> they say; and they do. Show them the laws IC 23-14-67 and IC 23-14-68.
Bring
> as many people who supports a cemetery commission in your county with you
to
> the meeting. For people who cannot attend the commissioners' meeting, have
> them write letters, send an e-mail, or make a phone call to each of the
> county commissioners.
> Do not get discouraged if they don't seem interested or will have to
"think
> about it later". Keep at them. The squeaky wheel gets the grease. Try to
get
> your Historical and Genealogy Societies involved. You can do it. Good luck
> and keep us informed.
> Sincerely,
> Angela Tielking
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "joanwray" <ejwray(a)ccrtc.com>
> To: <INPCRP-L(a)rootsweb.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, October 14, 2003 5:51 PM
> Subject: Re: [INPCRP] Legislative update
>
>
> > Angela and Donna:
> >
> > Thanks for taking the bull by the horn and being our representatives in
> this
> > movement.
> >
> > We don't have a "cemetery commission" in Tipton County. I have
approached
> > the County Commissioners once. I think I need more information for
myself
> > before I can make any movement again.
> >
> > In the meantime, I am getting acquainted with the different County
> Trustees
> > in our county. Some are very interested in our work and appreciate it
and
> > provide funds for materials if it is an abandoned one. Some have not
> > allocated any money for repairs!!! They pay for mowing, but not putting
> > back the stones. So I have to work on these.
> >
> > I hope the counties like us would be able to get assistance through the
> > trustees in your movement. You can only take one step at a time.
> Hopefully
> > we will encourage others. Last year were three and this year were are
> six.
> >
> > Cold today, looks like winter. I think we are about ready to whine it
> > down....
> > we have done 54 stones in the last month and every one had to be epoxyed
> > back together as well as cleaned. I never seen so much black on stones
as
> > there has been in this little cemetery.
> >
> > Love to all,
> >
> > Joan Wray
> > Tipton County
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "GTielking" <tielking(a)knightstown.net>
> > To: <INPCRP-L(a)rootsweb.com>
> > Sent: Tuesday, October 14, 2003 2:42 PM
> > Subject: [INPCRP] Legislative update
> >
> >
> > > Hello everybody! I wanted to give an update as to what has been
> happening
> > since Thursday Oct. 9 (after the County Gov't Study Commission meeting).
> > >
> > > Rep. Tom Saunders returned my phone call Sunday evening. He said after
> the
> > legislative meeting he and others had their own meeting out in the
> hallway.
> > They were Rep. Saunders, Rep. Tiny Adams, Vernon Jewell and Garland
> > Ferrell. They know more needs to be done and they want to help us. (The
> > reason we were not devoted much time was that there are some septic
> problems
> > occuring in Chairman Reigsecker's area and he wanted to see the septic
> > issues resolved).
> > >
> > > Even though we didn't ask for money, Rep. Saunders said WE NEED MONEY.
> > They are talking about raising the death certificates by $3.00. That
money
> > MUST be spent on the pioneer cemeteries. He did say that the money
earned
> > with this increase would go to the DNR and then the money would be
> dispersed
> > depending on how many pioneer cemeteries each county had. When I asked
to
> > who would receive this money, he answered the cemetery associations. I
> said,
> > "well, if there is a county cemetery commission, the money should go to
> > them." He agreed. Rep. Saunders would be the Republican author and Rep.
> > Adams would be the Democrat author.
> > >
> > > The problem is that not every county in Indiana has a cemetery
> commission.
> > Chairman Reigsecker already said that changing the word "may" to "shall"
> in
> > IC 23-14-67 would not happen. They cannot mandate the counties to do
that.
> > So...since county cemetery commissions are not appointed in every
county,
> > who will the money go to? Rep. Saunders was in a hurry and I was not
able
> to
> > question him further.
> > >
> > > Here is some other good news: He did say that we could go ahead and
> write
> > our own legislative changes or additions ourselves and to get it to him
by
> > Nov. 1st and he could see what he could do. He said not to get crazy and
> do
> > 30 changes. Focus on what we really want to accomplish. He said he could
> try
> > the access issues, but he doubts anything will pass regarding that.
> > >
> > > We still have another chance to get more accomplished this year! If
> anyone
> > is interested in participating in a "legislative workshop" with the
Henry
> > County crew, we are meeting Tuesday Oct. 21 at 6:00 p.m. at the
Spiceland
> > Library in Spiceland, Henry Co., Indiana. If you need directions, please
> > contact Donna Tauber : dtauber(a)kiva.net
> > >
> > > Thanks for listening,
> > > Angela Tielking
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ==== INPCRP Mailing List ====
> > > Quote from William Gladstone (1809-1897), three-time Prime Minister of
> > England
> > > and Victorian contemporary of Benjamin Disraeli:
> > > "Show me the manner in which a nation or community
> > > cares for its dead and I will measure with mathematical
> > > exactness the tender mercies of its people, their
> > > respect for the laws of the land, and their loyalty
> > > to high ideals."
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > ==== INPCRP Mailing List ====
> > Scott Satterthwaite < ssattert(a)localnet.com > is the INPCRP State
> Coordinator. Feel free to contact him directly regarding questions or
> comments you may have about the INPCRP.
> >
>
>
> ==== INPCRP Mailing List ====
> Scott Satterthwaite < ssattert(a)localnet.com > is the INPCRP State
Coordinator. Feel free to contact him directly regarding questions or
comments you may have about the INPCRP.
>
>
Mark,
I agree wholeheartedly. I forgot to mention that the Honorable Al Dillon (I
don't know which county) who sits on the County Gov't Study Commission was
IN FAVOR of the change from "may" to "shall" in IC 23-14-67. He was the only
one that I remember who agreed with us. I wanted to make sure that he
received credit for that.
Angela
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark Kreps" <mjkreps(a)tmcsmail.com>
To: <INPCRP-L(a)rootsweb.com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 14, 2003 8:36 PM
Subject: Re: [INPCRP] Legislative update
>
> I know Tiny Adams very well. He is a great guy who is always concerned
> about how he can help. I am glad we have his support. He represents the
> Muncie area well. Oatus Archey from Marion is a good man as well. Keeping
> the communications line OPEN is the key to these and other
representatives.
> Our township trustees need our encouragement and input as well.
> If no county cemetery commission exists in a county then each county
> commission should
> be mandated to name a group to receive the funds for pioneer cemeterys.
Yes
> we need $money$.
> Not a ton of tax money but enough to keep the pioneer restoration movement
> going.
>
> Mark Kreps
> Muncie, IN
> -------Original Message-------
>
> From: INPCRP-L(a)rootsweb.com
> Date: Tuesday, October 14, 2003 04:05:58 PM
> To: INPCRP-L(a)rootsweb.com
> Subject: Re: [INPCRP] Legislative update
>
> Oh my goodness.
> That is wonderful news.
> You did a great job!
>
> L.A. ~Tippecanoe Co.
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "GTielking" <tielking(a)knightstown.net>
> To: <INPCRP-L(a)rootsweb.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, October 14, 2003 2:42 PM
> Subject: [INPCRP] Legislative update
>
>
> > Hello everybody! I wanted to give an update as to what has been
happening
> since Thursday Oct. 9 (after the County Gov't Study Commission meeting).
> >
> > Rep. Tom Saunders returned my phone call Sunday evening. He said after
the
> legislative meeting he and others had their own meeting out in the
hallway.
> They were Rep. Saunders, Rep. Tiny Adams, Vernon Jewell and Garland
> Ferrell. They know more needs to be done and they want to help us. (The
> reason we were not devoted much time was that there are some septic
probems
> occuring in Chairman Reigsecker's area and he wanted to see the septic
> issues resolved).
> >
> > Even though we didn't ask for money, Rep. Saunders said WE NEED MONEY.
> They are talking about raising the death certificates by $3.00. That money
> MUST be spent on the pioneer cemeteries. He did say that the money earned
> with this increase would go to the DNR and then the money would be
dispersed
> depending on how many pioneer cemeteries each county had. When I asked to
> who would receive this money, he answered the cemetery associations. I
said,
> "well, if there is a county cemetery commission, the money should go to
> them." He agreed. Rep. Saunders would be the Republican author and Rep.
> Adams would be the Democrat author.
> >
> > The problem is that not every county in Indiana has a cemetery
commission.
> Chairman Reigsecker already said that changing the word "may" to "shall"
in
> IC 23-14-67 would not happen. They cannot mandate the counties to do that.
> So...since county cemetery commissions are not appointed in every county,
> who will the money go to? Rep. Saunders was in a hurry and I was not able
to
> question him further.
> >
> > Here is some other good news: He did say that we could go ahead and
write
> our own legislative changes or additions ourselves and to get it to him by
> Nov. 1st and he could see what he could do. He said not to get crazy and
do
> 30 changes. Focus on what we really want to accomplish. He said he could
try
> the access issues, but he doubts anything will pass regarding that.
> >
> > We still have another chance to get more accomplished this year! If
anyone
> is interested in participating in a "legislative workshop" with the Henry
> County crew, we are meeting Tuesday Oct. 21 at 6:00 p.m. at the Spiceland
> Library in Spiceland, Henry Co., Indiana. If you need directions, please
> contact Donna Tauber : dtauber(a)kiva.net
> >
> > Thanks for listening,
> > Angela Tielking
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ==== INPCRP Mailing List ====
> > Quote from William Gladstone (1809-1897), three-time Prime Minister of
> England
> > and Victorian contemporary of Benjamin Disraeli:
> > "Show me the manner in which a nation or community
> > cares for its dead and I will measure with mathematical
> > exactness the tender mercies of its people, their
> > respect for the laws of the land, and their loyalty
> > to high ideals."
> >
> >
>
>
> ==== INPCRP Mailing List ====
> Blessed are the Elderly, for they remember what we will never know.
>
>
> .
>
>
>
> ==== INPCRP Mailing List ====
> Scott Satterthwaite < ssattert(a)localnet.com > is the INPCRP State
Coordinator. Feel free to contact him directly regarding questions or
comments you may have about the INPCRP.
>
Would like you to see a trustee`s website that cared enough to have all her abandoned cemeteries restored! She is in the process of putting every name from these cemeteries on her site and is having them cared for in the future. Go here:
http://www.washtwp.org/abndcemetery.htm cousin Bob Alloway
Hello Everyone:
The following is a list of officers in the History and Genealogy Societies of Indiana.
They can be of great help in our cause. If you have the time please contact these people and ask for their support in trying to get a few things changed in the State cemetery laws. We (Henry county cemetery people) have realized that as for as the cemetery problems in Indiana, many on the Study Commission believes they are just a Henry county problem. It seems the only old pioneer cemeteries they ever see are those along the county roads in their districts, naturally those are well maintained.
Email these people and ask them to assist us in writing our own legislative changes and/or additions with their input and influence.
Thank you,
U. E. (Bud) Bush
Henry County, IN
INPCRP
Sal Cilella; President & CEO
Indiana Historical Society
president(a)indianahistory.org
Treasurer; Indiana Genealogy Society
Sharon S. Howell
720 Cynthia Ln.
Whiteland IN 46184-9755
Phone (317) 535-9376
sshowell(a)indy.net
Legislative Committee; Indiana Genealogy Society
Nancy Hurley
8138 Foxchase Cir.
Indianapolis IN 46256-4807
Phone (317) 849-0690
nhurley1010(a)hotmail.com
President; Indiana Genealogy Society
Betty L. Warren
6922 Rocklane Rd.
Greenwood IN 46143-9739
Phone (317) 862-2426
Blwarren49(a)aol.com
I think Joan is onto something here, as
I know one commission that paid a guy
$600 to whack down some brush, it promptly grew back. They also do only
mowing, or rather they pay someone who claims they mow it, odd as it
gets big enough to go to seed in several cemeteries. Most trustee's
seem willing
to get involved at some point, and the ones that don't, usually aren't
trustee
for more than a term or two. There are several outstanding commissions
around
but even they tend to work with the trustees as much as possible.
Lee Creed
Greencastle