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Very nice, Cris. Hope you get lots of response - help and otherwise.
Sue
----- Original Message -----
From: "Christine West" <cherokee(a)shelbynet.net>
To: <INPCRP-L(a)rootsweb.com>
Sent: Wednesday, March 20, 2002 4:03 PM
Subject: [INPCRP] Columbus Article
> See if this works, I think it should allow you to see the article.
>
> Cris
>
> Restoring cemeteries
>
> Web Posted Wednesday, March 20, 2002
>
HTTP://www.therepublic.com/main.asp?SectionID=11&SubSectionID=83&ArticleID=3
4943
>
>
>
> ==== INPCRP Mailing List ====
> THIS IS A CEMETERY -----
> "Lives are commemorated - deaths are recorded - families
> are reunited - memories are made tangible - and love is
> undisguised. This is a cemetery.
> "Communities accord respect, families bestow reverence,
> historians seek information and our heritage is thereby enriched.
> "Testimonies of devotion, pride and remembrance are carved
> in stone to pay warm tribute to accomplishments and to the life -
> not the death - of a loved one. The cemetery is homeland for family
> memorials that are a sustaining source of comfort to the living.
> "A cemetery is a history of people - a perpetual record of
> yesterday and sanctuary of peace and quiet today. A cemetery
> exists because every life is worth loving and remembering - always."
> --Author unknown -- Seen at a monument dealer in West Union, IA
>
>
Yes, the monument of two veterans was toppled in one blow because my uncle
Don Renno, U.S. Army Company E, 333d Infantry, 84th Infantry Division who
was killed 9 Apr 1945 (Germany surrendered less that a month later on 7 May
1945) in Weetzen, Germany while advancing on Hanover, and his younger
brother, my uncle Glenn, S1 U.S. Navy, are buried at the same monument. At
least one other stone of a veteran was knocked over as I have a photo of it:
http://www.renno.org/genealogy/Gravestones/Cemeteries/NewHavenIOOF/Vandalism
/DSCN1062.JPG I believe I saw a couple more with military markings that I
did not photograph. I will be stopping back to check on repair progress
tomorrow and will find out more of what the New Haven P.D. said they were
going to do and then visit the police station to let them know (politely of
course) that somebody is following the investigation. It should be an
interesting trip as I have dealt with them on a hit and run to my vehicle in
their jurisdiction some fifteen years back, but that would be really getting
off topic!
Brad Renno
-----Original Message-----
From: Sue Silver [mailto:ssilver1951@jps.net]
Sent: Tuesday, March 19, 2002 7:11 PM
To: INPCRP-L(a)rootsweb.com
Subject: Re: [INPCRP] Fw: {not a subscriber} New Haven IOOF Cemetery
Vandalism
Were there any veterans monuments vandalized? You said your uncle died in
World War II, and his stone was toppled/damaged?
Why don't you get together with the trustees and the local veterans
organizations and put out a reward for this [I can't print it]'s?
Why did the police refuse to dust the stone for fingerprints? It's an ideal
material, especially if there were any polished faces on the stones. I
don't get it. WHY won't the POLICE pursue these acts for the abhorrent
deeds they are??
Sue Silver
California
----- Original Message -----
From: "Brad Renno" <papabear(a)fwi.com>
To: <INPCRP-L(a)rootsweb.com>
Sent: Tuesday, March 19, 2002 2:09 PM
Subject: RE: [INPCRP] Fw: {not a subscriber} New Haven IOOF Cemetery
Vandalism
> I must correct myself, SIXTY Stones not One Hundred Sixty. I misread the
> paper as I choked on my cereal and grabbed the camera and headed to the
> cemetery. I thought my reporting error was trapped as I sent this message
> from an email account different from the one I subscribed with and was
> informed that it was not posted. I guess it was. I resubmitted under the
> email I belive I signed up with so there will probably be a duplicate
> message when it arrives, opps.
>
> Either way it must have been quite a project. In discussing the righting
of
> the stones with one of the trustees, who, as it turned out went to school
> with my uncle Donald Renno (killed in WW2) and had his stone was upended,
> said the stones in the photographs being righted weigh about 1000 pounds
and
> one stone that was turned weighted over 2000 pounds! He asked the police
if
> they were going to get prints from the stones and they said they would
not.
>
> I am guessing of course, but I would think that it would take at least two
> people to tip the 1000 pounders and several more to turn the really big
one
> I saw turned. Several rows had five to ten stones turned in a row. There
> were no vehicle tracks so they were done by hand (or foot). I volunteered
> to spend the afternoon helping to right the stones but was turned down as
> they were worried about liability.
>
> Brad Renno
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Debra Dougherty [mailto:djd434@rnetinc.net]
> Sent: Tuesday, March 19, 2002 1:46 PM
> To: INPCRP-L(a)rootsweb.com
> Subject: Re: [INPCRP] Fw: {not a subscriber} New Haven IOOF Cemetery
> Vandalism
>
>
> One hundred sixty stones?
> That's not a prank. That's a crime.
> It is a crime, isn't it?
>
> One hundred sixty stones?
> That was a huge task.
> How long does that take?
> How many breaks did they need?
> Do they work that hard at their day jobs?
> Or in school?
>
> One hundred sixty stones?
> The enormity stuns me.
> How many people does that take?
> No footprints?
> No fingerprints?
> No witnesses?
> No injuries?
>
> One hundred sixty stones?
> I don't understand.
> Where is the guidance?
> The sense of right or wrong?
> Are they troubled?
> Or are they stupid?
>
> Who - EXACTLY - are the criminals?
> What - EXACTLY - is the cost?
> When - EXACTLY - will it end?
> Where - EXACTLY - are the prosecutors?
>
> One of these days, somebody's "little angel" will manage to get themselves
> seriously hurt or even killed pulling a stunt like this. And I can hear
the
> cries of the parents now.....
> "WHY didn't somebody do something about this???!"
>
> One hundred sixty stones.
> I don't understand.
>
> Debra Dougherty
> Martinsville, IN
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Lois Mauk" <loismauk(a)insightbb.com>
> To: <INPCRP-L(a)rootsweb.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, March 19, 2002 11:36 AM
> Subject: [INPCRP] Fw: {not a subscriber} New Haven IOOF Cemetery Vandalism
>
>
> > Brad Renno's message (below) did not post to the group because he is not
> > listed as a subscriber through that address. Brad, if you need help
> > subscribing, just let me know.
> > Lois
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Brad Renno" <brad(a)renno.org>
> > To: <INPCRP-L(a)rootsweb.com>
> > Sent: Tuesday, March 19, 2002 10:55 AM
> > Subject: {not a subscriber} New Haven IOOF Cemetery Vandalism
> >
> >
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > Saturday night (3/16/2002) the New Haven IOOF Cemetery (Allen County,
> > > Indiana) was attacked by vandals. Approxamately 160 granite stones
> were
> > > toppled. I visited the cemetery today (Tuesday, March 19, 2002 and
> found
> > > rescue efforts were well underway by the cemetery staff and trustees
> > > (YEAH!). I also found that the stone of two of my uncles was one of
> those
> > > damaged. Fortunatly, the valdals chose only the newer stones and
little
> > > physical damage was done to the stones. Most damage was limited to
> > > scratches and gouges to the stone when it fell onto its base. If they
> had
> > > done this to the stones from the 1850's it would have been much worse.
> I
> > > posted photos of the damage at
> > >
www.renno.org/genealogy/Gravestones/Cemeteries/NewHavenIOOF/page_01.htm.
> > If
> > > the link length is too much for your browser to handle or you have to
> type
> > > it in, there is a link on the home page of www.renno.org.
> > >
> > > Brad Renno
> > > brad(a)renno.org
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > ==== INPCRP Mailing List ====
> > This list is for discussion of topics related to the Indiana Pioneer
> > Cemeteries Restoration Project only.
> >
> >
>
>
>
> ==== INPCRP Mailing List ====
> Cemetery: (n) A marble orchard not to be taken for granite.
>
>
>
>
> ==== INPCRP Mailing List ====
> If you know of some good cemetery related links, send them to
LoisMauk(a)usa.net.
>
>
==== INPCRP Mailing List ====
If you know of some good cemetery related links, send them to
LoisMauk(a)usa.net.
Not disagreeing, but just thought I would add my personal experience.
Several years back a homeless man broke in our Florida vacation house and
set up shop, living there for several days. He was later arrested on another
crime and tied to my house and convicted of burglary from his fingerprint
which was lifted from a Kool-aid package that he had used from my kitchen
cabinet. The Kool-aid package was pulled from my garbage and was pretty
nasty, I do say. The process that was used is as old as the hills in
criminology. They placed the package containing the print in a bell jar and
injected the fumes from a substance similar to super-glue which enhances the
print off of the package. Just like on TV. Results were, without a doubt,
his print. His defense was of course that he might have touched that
Kool-aid in the local grocery and then I, by chance, bought it and carried
it into my house. The only problem was that the Kool-aid was bought in
Indiana, which blew their case right out of the water.
My point, which I agree has nothing much to do with cemeteries, is law
enforcement can, if they are willing and smart enough (and I stress smart
enough), to find the culprit in most any crime. But first, they have to be
interested enough to go look and then go to any extreme to find enough
evidence to convict them. In this case, I will admit we were lucky to have
experienced investigators. But, you wonder how many cases go untouched,
because of the old line, "We probably won't find them anyway" or "they won't
do anything to them if they catch them." It has become an excepted way of
life. My favorite is, "I don't get paid enough for this." ---THEN GET
ANOTHER JOB AND LET SOMEBODY ELSE DO IT!
Back to cemeteries..... We had a very similar case not long ago in Vincennes
City Cemetery where at least 60 + stones were vandalized. In the end, the
girl and two male friends responsible were turned in to authorities by her
own mother after somebody talked to much around the dinner table. Let's hear
it for Mom!
Chances are that somebody will let it slip about this incident.
Jon Andrews
>From: Geography Department <geogdept(a)iupui.edu>
>Reply-To: INPCRP-L(a)rootsweb.com
>To: INPCRP-L(a)rootsweb.com
>Subject: Re: [INPCRP] Fw: {not a subscriber} New Haven IOOF Cemetery
>Vandalism
>Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 17:21:23 -0500
>
>It's possible that the stones would not take a fingerprint. The surface has
>to be
>fairly smooth with no dust or other smudges on it to get a good print. I
>know on TV
>and in the movies it seems like they can fingerprint anything (and in some
>cases
>they MIGHT be able to lift prints from some pretty exotic places) but the
>equipment
>that would be needed would be fairly expensive and most local police
>departments
>wouldn't have access to that sort of thing. Even the FBI might not be able
>to do.
>A week or so ago on The District they talked about lifting a really good
>print off
>of a ball point pen that had been thrown into the trash and then into a
>dumpster
>that was full of really yucky garbage. The response to that should be
>"Yeah,
>right." When my garage was broken into, the police officer that came to
>take the
>report said that they wouldn't be able to get prints if even a little bit
>of dust
>was present.
>Joyce Haibe
>
>Brad Renno wrote:
>
> > I must correct myself, SIXTY Stones not One Hundred Sixty. I misread the
> > paper as I choked on my cereal and grabbed the camera and headed to the
> > cemetery. I thought my reporting error was trapped as I sent this
>message
> > from an email account different from the one I subscribed with and was
> > informed that it was not posted. I guess it was. I resubmitted under
>the
> > email I belive I signed up with so there will probably be a duplicate
> > message when it arrives, opps.
> >
> > Either way it must have been quite a project. In discussing the
>righting of
> > the stones with one of the trustees, who, as it turned out went to
>school
> > with my uncle Donald Renno (killed in WW2) and had his stone was
>upended,
> > said the stones in the photographs being righted weigh about 1000 pounds
>and
> > one stone that was turned weighted over 2000 pounds! He asked the
>police if
> > they were going to get prints from the stones and they said they would
>not.
> >
> > I am guessing of course, but I would think that it would take at least
>two
> > people to tip the 1000 pounders and several more to turn the really big
>one
> > I saw turned. Several rows had five to ten stones turned in a row.
>There
> > were no vehicle tracks so they were done by hand (or foot). I
>volunteered
> > to spend the afternoon helping to right the stones but was turned down
>as
> > they were worried about liability.
> >
> > Brad Renno
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Debra Dougherty [mailto:djd434@rnetinc.net]
> > Sent: Tuesday, March 19, 2002 1:46 PM
> > To: INPCRP-L(a)rootsweb.com
> > Subject: Re: [INPCRP] Fw: {not a subscriber} New Haven IOOF Cemetery
> > Vandalism
> >
> > One hundred sixty stones?
> > That's not a prank. That's a crime.
> > It is a crime, isn't it?
> >
> > One hundred sixty stones?
> > That was a huge task.
> > How long does that take?
> > How many breaks did they need?
> > Do they work that hard at their day jobs?
> > Or in school?
> >
> > One hundred sixty stones?
> > The enormity stuns me.
> > How many people does that take?
> > No footprints?
> > No fingerprints?
> > No witnesses?
> > No injuries?
> >
> > One hundred sixty stones?
> > I don't understand.
> > Where is the guidance?
> > The sense of right or wrong?
> > Are they troubled?
> > Or are they stupid?
> >
> > Who - EXACTLY - are the criminals?
> > What - EXACTLY - is the cost?
> > When - EXACTLY - will it end?
> > Where - EXACTLY - are the prosecutors?
> >
> > One of these days, somebody's "little angel" will manage to get
>themselves
> > seriously hurt or even killed pulling a stunt like this. And I can hear
>the
> > cries of the parents now.....
> > "WHY didn't somebody do something about this???!"
> >
> > One hundred sixty stones.
> > I don't understand.
> >
> > Debra Dougherty
> > Martinsville, IN
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Lois Mauk" <loismauk(a)insightbb.com>
> > To: <INPCRP-L(a)rootsweb.com>
> > Sent: Tuesday, March 19, 2002 11:36 AM
> > Subject: [INPCRP] Fw: {not a subscriber} New Haven IOOF Cemetery
>Vandalism
> >
> > > Brad Renno's message (below) did not post to the group because he is
>not
> > > listed as a subscriber through that address. Brad, if you need help
> > > subscribing, just let me know.
> > > Lois
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Brad Renno" <brad(a)renno.org>
> > > To: <INPCRP-L(a)rootsweb.com>
> > > Sent: Tuesday, March 19, 2002 10:55 AM
> > > Subject: {not a subscriber} New Haven IOOF Cemetery Vandalism
> > >
> > >
> > > > Hi,
> > > >
> > > > Saturday night (3/16/2002) the New Haven IOOF Cemetery (Allen
>County,
> > > > Indiana) was attacked by vandals. Approxamately 160 granite stones
> > were
> > > > toppled. I visited the cemetery today (Tuesday, March 19, 2002 and
> > found
> > > > rescue efforts were well underway by the cemetery staff and trustees
> > > > (YEAH!). I also found that the stone of two of my uncles was one of
> > those
> > > > damaged. Fortunatly, the valdals chose only the newer stones and
>little
> > > > physical damage was done to the stones. Most damage was limited to
> > > > scratches and gouges to the stone when it fell onto its base. If
>they
> > had
> > > > done this to the stones from the 1850's it would have been much
>worse.
> > I
> > > > posted photos of the damage at
> > > >
>www.renno.org/genealogy/Gravestones/Cemeteries/NewHavenIOOF/page_01.htm.
> > > If
> > > > the link length is too much for your browser to handle or you have
>to
> > type
> > > > it in, there is a link on the home page of www.renno.org.
> > > >
> > > > Brad Renno
> > > > brad(a)renno.org
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ==== INPCRP Mailing List ====
> > > This list is for discussion of topics related to the Indiana Pioneer
> > > Cemeteries Restoration Project only.
> > >
> > >
> >
> > ==== INPCRP Mailing List ====
> > Cemetery: (n) A marble orchard not to be taken for granite.
> >
> > ==== INPCRP Mailing List ====
> > If you know of some good cemetery related links, send them to
>LoisMauk(a)usa.net.
>
>
>==== INPCRP Mailing List ====
>Blessed are the Elderly, for they remember what we will never know.
>
_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.
It's possible that the stones would not take a fingerprint. The surface has to be
fairly smooth with no dust or other smudges on it to get a good print. I know on TV
and in the movies it seems like they can fingerprint anything (and in some cases
they MIGHT be able to lift prints from some pretty exotic places) but the equipment
that would be needed would be fairly expensive and most local police departments
wouldn't have access to that sort of thing. Even the FBI might not be able to do.
A week or so ago on The District they talked about lifting a really good print off
of a ball point pen that had been thrown into the trash and then into a dumpster
that was full of really yucky garbage. The response to that should be "Yeah,
right." When my garage was broken into, the police officer that came to take the
report said that they wouldn't be able to get prints if even a little bit of dust
was present.
Joyce Haibe
Brad Renno wrote:
> I must correct myself, SIXTY Stones not One Hundred Sixty. I misread the
> paper as I choked on my cereal and grabbed the camera and headed to the
> cemetery. I thought my reporting error was trapped as I sent this message
> from an email account different from the one I subscribed with and was
> informed that it was not posted. I guess it was. I resubmitted under the
> email I belive I signed up with so there will probably be a duplicate
> message when it arrives, opps.
>
> Either way it must have been quite a project. In discussing the righting of
> the stones with one of the trustees, who, as it turned out went to school
> with my uncle Donald Renno (killed in WW2) and had his stone was upended,
> said the stones in the photographs being righted weigh about 1000 pounds and
> one stone that was turned weighted over 2000 pounds! He asked the police if
> they were going to get prints from the stones and they said they would not.
>
> I am guessing of course, but I would think that it would take at least two
> people to tip the 1000 pounders and several more to turn the really big one
> I saw turned. Several rows had five to ten stones turned in a row. There
> were no vehicle tracks so they were done by hand (or foot). I volunteered
> to spend the afternoon helping to right the stones but was turned down as
> they were worried about liability.
>
> Brad Renno
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Debra Dougherty [mailto:djd434@rnetinc.net]
> Sent: Tuesday, March 19, 2002 1:46 PM
> To: INPCRP-L(a)rootsweb.com
> Subject: Re: [INPCRP] Fw: {not a subscriber} New Haven IOOF Cemetery
> Vandalism
>
> One hundred sixty stones?
> That's not a prank. That's a crime.
> It is a crime, isn't it?
>
> One hundred sixty stones?
> That was a huge task.
> How long does that take?
> How many breaks did they need?
> Do they work that hard at their day jobs?
> Or in school?
>
> One hundred sixty stones?
> The enormity stuns me.
> How many people does that take?
> No footprints?
> No fingerprints?
> No witnesses?
> No injuries?
>
> One hundred sixty stones?
> I don't understand.
> Where is the guidance?
> The sense of right or wrong?
> Are they troubled?
> Or are they stupid?
>
> Who - EXACTLY - are the criminals?
> What - EXACTLY - is the cost?
> When - EXACTLY - will it end?
> Where - EXACTLY - are the prosecutors?
>
> One of these days, somebody's "little angel" will manage to get themselves
> seriously hurt or even killed pulling a stunt like this. And I can hear the
> cries of the parents now.....
> "WHY didn't somebody do something about this???!"
>
> One hundred sixty stones.
> I don't understand.
>
> Debra Dougherty
> Martinsville, IN
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Lois Mauk" <loismauk(a)insightbb.com>
> To: <INPCRP-L(a)rootsweb.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, March 19, 2002 11:36 AM
> Subject: [INPCRP] Fw: {not a subscriber} New Haven IOOF Cemetery Vandalism
>
> > Brad Renno's message (below) did not post to the group because he is not
> > listed as a subscriber through that address. Brad, if you need help
> > subscribing, just let me know.
> > Lois
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Brad Renno" <brad(a)renno.org>
> > To: <INPCRP-L(a)rootsweb.com>
> > Sent: Tuesday, March 19, 2002 10:55 AM
> > Subject: {not a subscriber} New Haven IOOF Cemetery Vandalism
> >
> >
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > Saturday night (3/16/2002) the New Haven IOOF Cemetery (Allen County,
> > > Indiana) was attacked by vandals. Approxamately 160 granite stones
> were
> > > toppled. I visited the cemetery today (Tuesday, March 19, 2002 and
> found
> > > rescue efforts were well underway by the cemetery staff and trustees
> > > (YEAH!). I also found that the stone of two of my uncles was one of
> those
> > > damaged. Fortunatly, the valdals chose only the newer stones and little
> > > physical damage was done to the stones. Most damage was limited to
> > > scratches and gouges to the stone when it fell onto its base. If they
> had
> > > done this to the stones from the 1850's it would have been much worse.
> I
> > > posted photos of the damage at
> > > www.renno.org/genealogy/Gravestones/Cemeteries/NewHavenIOOF/page_01.htm.
> > If
> > > the link length is too much for your browser to handle or you have to
> type
> > > it in, there is a link on the home page of www.renno.org.
> > >
> > > Brad Renno
> > > brad(a)renno.org
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > ==== INPCRP Mailing List ====
> > This list is for discussion of topics related to the Indiana Pioneer
> > Cemeteries Restoration Project only.
> >
> >
>
> ==== INPCRP Mailing List ====
> Cemetery: (n) A marble orchard not to be taken for granite.
>
> ==== INPCRP Mailing List ====
> If you know of some good cemetery related links, send them to LoisMauk(a)usa.net.
Were there any veterans monuments vandalized? You said your uncle died in
World War II, and his stone was toppled/damaged?
Why don't you get together with the trustees and the local veterans
organizations and put out a reward for this [I can't print it]'s?
Why did the police refuse to dust the stone for fingerprints? It's an ideal
material, especially if there were any polished faces on the stones. I
don't get it. WHY won't the POLICE pursue these acts for the abhorrent
deeds they are??
Sue Silver
California
----- Original Message -----
From: "Brad Renno" <papabear(a)fwi.com>
To: <INPCRP-L(a)rootsweb.com>
Sent: Tuesday, March 19, 2002 2:09 PM
Subject: RE: [INPCRP] Fw: {not a subscriber} New Haven IOOF Cemetery
Vandalism
> I must correct myself, SIXTY Stones not One Hundred Sixty. I misread the
> paper as I choked on my cereal and grabbed the camera and headed to the
> cemetery. I thought my reporting error was trapped as I sent this message
> from an email account different from the one I subscribed with and was
> informed that it was not posted. I guess it was. I resubmitted under the
> email I belive I signed up with so there will probably be a duplicate
> message when it arrives, opps.
>
> Either way it must have been quite a project. In discussing the righting
of
> the stones with one of the trustees, who, as it turned out went to school
> with my uncle Donald Renno (killed in WW2) and had his stone was upended,
> said the stones in the photographs being righted weigh about 1000 pounds
and
> one stone that was turned weighted over 2000 pounds! He asked the police
if
> they were going to get prints from the stones and they said they would
not.
>
> I am guessing of course, but I would think that it would take at least two
> people to tip the 1000 pounders and several more to turn the really big
one
> I saw turned. Several rows had five to ten stones turned in a row. There
> were no vehicle tracks so they were done by hand (or foot). I volunteered
> to spend the afternoon helping to right the stones but was turned down as
> they were worried about liability.
>
> Brad Renno
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Debra Dougherty [mailto:djd434@rnetinc.net]
> Sent: Tuesday, March 19, 2002 1:46 PM
> To: INPCRP-L(a)rootsweb.com
> Subject: Re: [INPCRP] Fw: {not a subscriber} New Haven IOOF Cemetery
> Vandalism
>
>
> One hundred sixty stones?
> That's not a prank. That's a crime.
> It is a crime, isn't it?
>
> One hundred sixty stones?
> That was a huge task.
> How long does that take?
> How many breaks did they need?
> Do they work that hard at their day jobs?
> Or in school?
>
> One hundred sixty stones?
> The enormity stuns me.
> How many people does that take?
> No footprints?
> No fingerprints?
> No witnesses?
> No injuries?
>
> One hundred sixty stones?
> I don't understand.
> Where is the guidance?
> The sense of right or wrong?
> Are they troubled?
> Or are they stupid?
>
> Who - EXACTLY - are the criminals?
> What - EXACTLY - is the cost?
> When - EXACTLY - will it end?
> Where - EXACTLY - are the prosecutors?
>
> One of these days, somebody's "little angel" will manage to get themselves
> seriously hurt or even killed pulling a stunt like this. And I can hear
the
> cries of the parents now.....
> "WHY didn't somebody do something about this???!"
>
> One hundred sixty stones.
> I don't understand.
>
> Debra Dougherty
> Martinsville, IN
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Lois Mauk" <loismauk(a)insightbb.com>
> To: <INPCRP-L(a)rootsweb.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, March 19, 2002 11:36 AM
> Subject: [INPCRP] Fw: {not a subscriber} New Haven IOOF Cemetery Vandalism
>
>
> > Brad Renno's message (below) did not post to the group because he is not
> > listed as a subscriber through that address. Brad, if you need help
> > subscribing, just let me know.
> > Lois
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Brad Renno" <brad(a)renno.org>
> > To: <INPCRP-L(a)rootsweb.com>
> > Sent: Tuesday, March 19, 2002 10:55 AM
> > Subject: {not a subscriber} New Haven IOOF Cemetery Vandalism
> >
> >
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > Saturday night (3/16/2002) the New Haven IOOF Cemetery (Allen County,
> > > Indiana) was attacked by vandals. Approxamately 160 granite stones
> were
> > > toppled. I visited the cemetery today (Tuesday, March 19, 2002 and
> found
> > > rescue efforts were well underway by the cemetery staff and trustees
> > > (YEAH!). I also found that the stone of two of my uncles was one of
> those
> > > damaged. Fortunatly, the valdals chose only the newer stones and
little
> > > physical damage was done to the stones. Most damage was limited to
> > > scratches and gouges to the stone when it fell onto its base. If they
> had
> > > done this to the stones from the 1850's it would have been much worse.
> I
> > > posted photos of the damage at
> > >
www.renno.org/genealogy/Gravestones/Cemeteries/NewHavenIOOF/page_01.htm.
> > If
> > > the link length is too much for your browser to handle or you have to
> type
> > > it in, there is a link on the home page of www.renno.org.
> > >
> > > Brad Renno
> > > brad(a)renno.org
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > ==== INPCRP Mailing List ====
> > This list is for discussion of topics related to the Indiana Pioneer
> > Cemeteries Restoration Project only.
> >
> >
>
>
>
> ==== INPCRP Mailing List ====
> Cemetery: (n) A marble orchard not to be taken for granite.
>
>
>
>
> ==== INPCRP Mailing List ====
> If you know of some good cemetery related links, send them to
LoisMauk(a)usa.net.
>
>
Brad Renno's message (below) did not post to the group because he is not
listed as a subscriber through that address. Brad, if you need help
subscribing, just let me know.
Lois
----- Original Message -----
From: "Brad Renno" <brad(a)renno.org>
To: <INPCRP-L(a)rootsweb.com>
Sent: Tuesday, March 19, 2002 10:55 AM
Subject: {not a subscriber} New Haven IOOF Cemetery Vandalism
> Hi,
>
> Saturday night (3/16/2002) the New Haven IOOF Cemetery (Allen County,
> Indiana) was attacked by vandals. Approxamately 160 granite stones were
> toppled. I visited the cemetery today (Tuesday, March 19, 2002 and found
> rescue efforts were well underway by the cemetery staff and trustees
> (YEAH!). I also found that the stone of two of my uncles was one of those
> damaged. Fortunatly, the valdals chose only the newer stones and little
> physical damage was done to the stones. Most damage was limited to
> scratches and gouges to the stone when it fell onto its base. If they had
> done this to the stones from the 1850's it would have been much worse. I
> posted photos of the damage at
> www.renno.org/genealogy/Gravestones/Cemeteries/NewHavenIOOF/page_01.htm.
If
> the link length is too much for your browser to handle or you have to type
> it in, there is a link on the home page of www.renno.org.
>
> Brad Renno
> brad(a)renno.org
>
>
>
>
Susan,
Besides the USGenweb page, is that where you looked for the cemetery?
I'm also fforwarding this email onto the Indiana Cemetery Preservation Project to see if anyone knows of this cemtery
location. I hope they will reply to me as well.
I check with the findagrave link to locate a cemetery and the only one with that name it picked up in Barthlomew County.
I checked with our SAR CDROM War Graves and it only lists the cemetery but not the township it is in. If someone there in Rush County on the group has a section map it may list the cemetery.
NAME OF CEMETERY
(LITTLE) FLAT ROCK
COUNTY OF CEMETERY
RUSH
LOCATION DESCRIPTION
NOBLE TWP.
REMARKS
SEE FLAT ROCK
CALL NUMBER "1"
G 977.201 R952d
CALL NUMBER "2"
G 977.201 R952i
Hope this helps it comes from the Indiana State Genealogical Division: ANY HELP IS APPRECIATED!!
Stephen D Franklin
South District Director
Indiana Society
Sons of the American Revolution
http://www.geocities.com/inssar-south
----- Original Message -----
From: SusanALogan(a)aol.com
To: daniel(a)iglou.com
Sent: Monday, March 18, 2002 11:01 AM
Subject: Patrick Logan
Patrick Logan was born 6May 1752 in Ireland but came to Penn. and fought in the Rev. War several times from Penn and also from Virginia in Moore's co 4th Batallion Chester county and also in Brandywine. He eventaully came to Indiana and died 17 Jan 1828 and was buried in Flat Rock Church Cemetery in Rushville,
Rush, Indiana. Information has no listing for the cemetery. The public library said it doesnt exist. They gave me supposedly the Flat Rock Christian Church 765-932-4900 but I ended up on someone answering #765-932-5211 and I left a message.
I was hoping to find some records at the time of death that would give me a clue as to where he was born in Ireland and who his parents may have been. I am new to the search and I know somewhere there must be records but I am a novice as to how to access them. Can you help?
Thank you
Susan Logan
In a message dated 3/18/02 10:42:08 AM US Eastern Standard Time,
ssilver1951(a)jps.net writes:
> Haven't had any really obscene things for a while now,
> thank the Lord.
>
>
Sue by blocking the crazy named Domains this stuff was coming thru, I have
sroped 75%. (I didn't mean to include your domain), Really. I also was
getting Instant messages at night especially, all porn. SO, I blocked my
Instant messages. Anyone in that big a hurry that is a friend will take the
time to E-mail me. They really had my number for awhile. Also I got a lot of
Spam that said this is in answer to your request for this information, sent
by you or someone on your behalf. The person on my behalf sent the Damn
thing. I guess for the benefits we get we will have to put up with this
until the ISPs figure out a better way to stop more of it. Later,
Jack
In a message dated 3/18/02 7:45:17 AM US Eastern Standard Time,
elasley(a)sigecom.net writes:
> That's a problem with posting on websites and being on mail lists, your
> e-mail adress is vulnerable. I get rid of mine with Spamcop. This is
> also a good way to complain to ISP's about the people who send the junk.
>
> http://spamcop.net
>
> Ernie
>
Ernie, I appreciate that, I'll check it out. That stuff is getting out of
hand. I'm on aol and they are trying hard to stop it, but they also send me
offers to buy????
Thanks, Jack
Jack E. Briles Sr.
Po Box 444
New Albany, Floyd Co. In.
47151-0444
E-mail jb502000(a)aol.com
In a message dated 3/18/02 8:56:03 AM US Eastern Standard Time,
rgreen(a)nlci.com writes:
> and any discussion depicting ways to legally covet location information,
> rather than making this data as well known as possible, is both alarming
> and counterproductive to the preservation of these important sites.
>
>
Rich
I have an appointment to check on repairing stones on one of the
cemeteries I found. It is with some descendants. Also everyone in the county
knows to call me (My books are not done) all county officials, the Library
and the Reporters for the Louisville Courier, The New Albany Tribune and the
Jeffersonville Evening news all know to direct people to me. There have been
6 articles in these papers. The Information is publicly known that I know
where they are. And will meet them and lead them to the cemetery. (Again at
my own expense and time)
I will personaly take them to the site. And I dont charge for repairs, they
are done on an as can basis. Others donate the money to buy the Epoxy only.
Gotta Go, More tonite,
Jack E. Briles Sr
EarthLink has something called Spaminator. It works pretty good for me but
occasionally really cruddy stuff gets by. I just forward it to EarthLink on
their Abuse address. Haven't had any really obscene things for a while now,
thank the Lord.
Sue
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ernie & Connie Lasley" <elasley(a)sigecom.net>
To: <INPCRP-L(a)rootsweb.com>
Sent: Monday, March 18, 2002 4:43 AM
Subject: Re: [INPCRP] Junk mail & porn mail.
> That's a problem with posting on websites and being on mail lists, your
> e-mail adress is vulnerable. I get rid of mine with Spamcop. This is
> also a good way to complain to ISP's about the people who send the junk.
>
> http://spamcop.net
>
> Ernie
>
> At 08:09 PM 03/17/2002 -0800, you wrote:
> >Know what you mean....
> >
> >Sue
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: <Jb502000(a)aol.com>
> >To: <INPCRP-L(a)rootsweb.com>
> >Sent: Sunday, March 17, 2002 5:47 PM
> >Subject: Re: [INPCRP] Jack Briles, OK now
> >
> >
> > > In a message dated 3/17/02 8:27:29 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
> > > ssilver1951(a)jps.net writes:
> > >
> > >
> > > > Did you change your email address? I keep getting my last reply to
you
> > > > bounced back. Happened twice now...
> > > >
> > > > Sue Silver
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Sue, I get about 25 Porno E-mail a day. (No I don't open them) Some
how
> >I
> > > must have got 2 or 3 the same day from the Domain jps.net and I
blocked
> >it.
> > > Im glad you went thru INPCRP. jps.net is now clear. If I have blocked
> >anyone
> > > else let me know thru the list and I will clear it. Sorry Sue. That
stuff
> > > gets pretty disgusting.
> > > Jack
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ==== INPCRP Mailing List ====
> > > Quote from William Gladstone (1809-1897), three-time Prime Minister of
> >England
> > > and Victorian contemporary of Benjamin Disraeli:
> > > "Show me the manner in which a nation or community
> > > cares for its dead and I will measure with mathematical
> > > exactness the tender mercies of its people, their
> > > respect for the laws of the land, and their loyalty
> > > to high ideals."
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >==== INPCRP Mailing List ====
> >"Show me your cemeteries, and I will tell you what kind of people you
have."
> > Benjamin Franklin (1706 - 1790)
>
>
> ==== INPCRP Mailing List ====
> This list is for discussion of topics related to the Indiana Pioneer
> Cemeteries Restoration Project only.
>
>
Rich, I'm 100% non profit. I plan on absolutely no monetary return on what I
do. I have no Grant. I have not received one cent from anyone, I used only
the money from my own pocket. Which over a year was considerable. The only
thing I can say is after a year working at my own expense, I don't want
someone photo copying my work and selling Booklets for a Profit. And "Yes"
they would sell. My work is to be donated to the Local Library in Floyd, and
Harrison counties free of charge. Anyone can come in and locate a cemetery
from my 2 volumes. They can't take them out of the room. But I don't want
someone else charging, and profiting from what I have done.
Everyone will benefit from the information. But they won't Profit from it.
Understand or not, that's it. Eventually the state of Indiana will have all
of my information. But it won't be for sale, only for historical recording
purposes. I can destroy all I have, then that little point on the map that
only I know where it is would make a difference. It all depends on who did
the financing.
Again, my opinion,
Jack E. Briles Sr
In a message dated 3/18/02 12:12:18 AM US Eastern Standard Time,
md9105(a)skyenet.net writes:
> The funny part about this is the book with the "copyrighted cemeteries" is
> available for research at some libraries and a few other genealogy research
> sites(can you say Randolph county Historical Museum- Winchester,Indiana)
> Oops I guess I let the cat out of the bag.....phone 765 584 1334 Monisa
> Wisener
Mark,
I don't "Copyright Cemeteries" Its my other work involved. I have no Idea who
is buried in any cemetery. I'm not even interested, unless they are related
to me. I can't do lookups. I don't have any names. The only names I have is
in my Data base that I have collected over 27 years. And yes there are
"Copyrighted family Genealogy Books", a lot of them.
Jack E. Briles Sr.
New Albany, Floyd Co. In.
E-mail jb502000(a)aol.com
17 years, 11 months
by mark davis
Sue,
The funny part about this is the book with the "copyrighted cemeteries" is available for research at some libraries and a few other genealogy research sites(can you say Randolph county Historical Museum- Winchester,Indiana) Oops I guess I let the cat out of the bag.....phone 765 584 1334 Monisa Wisener. This is just between you and me,isnt it?(tongue in cheek). She can probably do a lookup in it.....its only certain Henry county township cemeteries.
Anyway I am off topic.Back to the real cemetery related items.
Mark Davis
Sue Silver
P.S. And I ran across some clown who had Amanda posted and when I inquired how he was related (I'm looking for affected descendants of this pitiful cemetery), it comes back at me that he can't reveal any info due to copyright restrictions. Get real! Who cares? After all the info a lot of us freely share with others, who needs this? So, I offered him info and now, well, hmmmmm
I was having a hard time following the original thread and now, I must
confess, I'm really confused. What would be the purpose of copyrighting
a cemetery location on a map? From whom would it be necessary to retain
such information? I don't get it.
Shouldn't all cemetery locations, and in particular those that are
obscure and hard to find, be accurately recorded and publicly
disseminated? Why would one want to hold a copyright to such
information? I doubt seriously if there is much, if any, value in terms
of publishing and surely no one would suggest that the methods by which
such data were collected and recorded are in some way unique or
proprietary? On the contrary, most of the survey done by amateurs and
even some professionals won't stand up in a court of law.
So, exactly what is the purpose of copyrighting a point on a map? How
could the author/researcher/cemetery cartographer be harmed by the use
of such information by others? The only real value in the information
is if it is shared with other researchers.
-
Rich Green
Historic Archaeological Research
4338 Hadley Court
West Lafayette, IN 47906
Office: (765) 464-8735
Home: (765) 464-8095
http://www.har-indy.com
In a message dated 3/17/02 9:26:39 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
md9105(a)skyenet.net writes:
> there was some public information that isnt copyrightable(Like the
> Gettysburg Address,etc)
>
That is considered a Historical Speech by a President. The only way it
would be effective for you would be for you to copy it word for word. You
can't do that. You can recite it, you can print it, you can read it, but It's
like my USGS maps it belongs to the people. No one can stop you from printing
it but it belongs to us all. It would not be original work of yours.
My D---- Opinion again
Jack E. Briles Sr.
Po Box 444
New Albany, Floyd Co. In.
47151-0444
E-mail jb502000(a)aol.com
In a message dated 3/17/02 9:26:39 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
md9105(a)skyenet.net writes:
> BUT.... some cemeteries(I think) would fall into Public Domain(under the
> Township Trustee stewardship).What is the law regarding this?
>
> I hope someone with legal experience in this area will chime in on this
> subject.And cite some laws that would apply in your response.
>
> Thanks
> Mark Davis
>
Mark,
I am locating in Floyd County all cemeteries. I even have some
people only thought existed. I locate them, and including Gps, latitude, and
longitude, the Exact location, and using USGS maps to pinpoint my Locations
on the Maps. Also Directions to the cemetery from the Court House, the number
of feet from point A to B the cemetery.. I have copyrighted everything but
the USGS maps I can copyright the location, the directions, the Format The
Numbering System , The Names of the Cemeteries, (I have changed some because
of the Deeds) of the person who started the cemetery. I CANNOT COPYRIGHT THE
USGS MAPS THEMSELVES, They belong to the US Government and cannot be
copyrighted. But the Cross hair on the location belongs to me. I have spent
almost a year researching these Cemeteries. No one is going to take this away
from me without my permission. Hell, no one could find half of what I have in
a year. I do not Record Names.
That is for someone else. If you copy all names in a Particular Format
different enough that what you do is so different from someone else, then you
can Copyright your Collection. If they go by row, you go from front to back,
if they do that, you go sideways, Make it Different enough that if they are
photocopied they look different.YOU MAY NOT DO IT EXACTLY LIKE THEY DO or you
infringe on their copyright. The Names are in the Public Domain. It is the
Difference in your work and theirs that counts. My Humble opinion. If
someone copys mine, wer'e headed for court. Some one speak up. I could get
my forms and quote, but this is Long enough, I forgot, if the cemetery is on
private property and an Individual is given exclusive rights to copy the
cemetery, you are out of luck.
Jack E. Briles Sr.
Po Box 444
New Albany, Floyd Co. In.
47151-0444
E-mail jb502000(a)aol.com
In a message dated 3/17/02 8:27:29 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
ssilver1951(a)jps.net writes:
> Did you change your email address? I keep getting my last reply to you
> bounced back. Happened twice now...
>
> Sue Silver
>
>
> Sue, I get about 25 Porno E-mail a day. (No I don't open them) Some how I
must have got 2 or 3 the same day from the Domain jps.net and I blocked it.
Im glad you went thru INPCRP. jps.net is now clear. If I have blocked anyone
else let me know thru the list and I will clear it. Sorry Sue. That stuff
gets pretty disgusting.
Jack
Know what you mean....
Sue
----- Original Message -----
From: <Jb502000(a)aol.com>
To: <INPCRP-L(a)rootsweb.com>
Sent: Sunday, March 17, 2002 5:47 PM
Subject: Re: [INPCRP] Jack Briles, OK now
> In a message dated 3/17/02 8:27:29 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
> ssilver1951(a)jps.net writes:
>
>
> > Did you change your email address? I keep getting my last reply to you
> > bounced back. Happened twice now...
> >
> > Sue Silver
> >
> >
> > Sue, I get about 25 Porno E-mail a day. (No I don't open them) Some how
I
> must have got 2 or 3 the same day from the Domain jps.net and I blocked
it.
> Im glad you went thru INPCRP. jps.net is now clear. If I have blocked
anyone
> else let me know thru the list and I will clear it. Sorry Sue. That stuff
> gets pretty disgusting.
> Jack
>
>
>
>
> ==== INPCRP Mailing List ====
> Quote from William Gladstone (1809-1897), three-time Prime Minister of
England
> and Victorian contemporary of Benjamin Disraeli:
> "Show me the manner in which a nation or community
> cares for its dead and I will measure with mathematical
> exactness the tender mercies of its people, their
> respect for the laws of the land, and their loyalty
> to high ideals."
>
>