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Dear Friends:
I've done some tweaking and I've incorporated several excellent suggestions in
the letter and petition form calling on the Indiana Legislature to overhaul
the statutes which currently permit the quick and easy dismantling and
relocation of our pioneer family cemeteries. The documents are on-line in a
single PDF document at:
http://www.rootsweb.com/~inpcrp/Petition-Disinterment.PDF
You will need the FREE Adobe Acrobat READER on your system to open the PDF
link listed above. You can download it from:
http://www.adobe.com/products/acrobat/readstep2.html
I've also linked the Petition documents to a new INPCRP page on the subject of
DISINTERMENT, which I will link tomorrow to the main INPCRP page:
http://www.rootsweb.com/~inpcrp/disinterment.html
While this is the "final" letter and Petition, if you see something that
really needs to be changed, just let me know and I'll update it.
I have included two different Petition forms: One is a "long form" that
includes a good deal more text and room for only 5 signatures. The other is a
"short form" with less text and room for ten signatures. I suggest you print
out both and, if potential signers want to know more about the situation, give
them the "long form", maybe with the included page of pertinent statute
language.
This question has come up before, and I feel we should welcome signatures from
cemetery friends from OUTSIDE the State of Indiana. I think it's important
that the Legislators know that "the world is watching" what happens here.
Though we don't ask for signers' ages on the Petition form, I favor collecting
signatures only from persons over 18 years of age. If you have someone (young
OR old) with a strong opinion on this subject, ask him or her to write a short
personal letter to Rep. Markt Lytle and, if you send it in with your signed
Petitions, we will include those letters in the package we will be
hand-delivering to Rep. Lytle on 10/6/2001. I'm sure he will pay close
attention to letters from children and young people as a further demonstration
of the wide range of interest in protecting our pioneer cemeteries.
I'm really excited about the possibility of collecting a TON of signatures on
this project. We will, of course, keep you posted on the numbers when the
petitions start rolling in.
If anyone should ask, the names and addresses collected in this Petition drive
will not be released or provided to anyone other than Rep. Markt Lytle, though
I will be tabulating the number of Petition signatures received from the
various Indiana counties and from outside the State and making that NUMERICAL
information available.
Thank you for all your interest in and support of this endeavor. And thanks
to Jack Briles for permitting us to use his P.O. Box address to receive signed
Petitions.
Lois Mauk
State Coordinator
Indiana Pioneer Cemeteries Restoration Project
http://www.rootsweb.com/~inpcrp
Kyle,
We are thinking along the same lines. But when the Smith Cemetery in Floyd
was moved they gave me a moving date, and then they performed their MIRACLE
of putting the Remains of 7 people in 3 boxes about 8 X 8 inches a week and
a half earlier on a day when it was 25 gegrees. They had no intention of
letting me Still, and Videotape what they were going to do. And they are not
bound by any law to let you know when they do it. When you see what
developers in this area do to cemeteries, you begin to realize what you are
up aganist. A friend of mine who was a Represenitive years ago told me if he
had his way, Half of the legislators time would be spent clearing useless
laws off the books, before they passed any new ones.
Jack Briles Sr.
I do not know about any radio show. He definitely has a gift for gab and
could go on for 3 hours. News to me, though. He is not a radio announcer. He
is an attorney from Vincennes, who lives in Sandborn and very well may be
our next Governor or Lt. Gov., ARGHHHHH! He was elected to the Indiana
Legislature in early about 1992 and became Speaker of the House about 5-6
years ago. He pretty well runs the show up there, in some respects, or at
least he thinks he does. He also has a pioneer cemetery right out his front
drive in plain view of leaving his house that is very, very, poorly
maintained. I will post his e-mail address and direct quote about cemeteries
here sometime tonight or Saturday.
Rich Kimball
>From: "G Tielking" <tielking(a)knightstown.net>
>Reply-To: INPCRP-L(a)rootsweb.com
>To: INPCRP-L(a)rootsweb.com
>Subject: Re: [INPCRP] Petition and Order to Disinter Whalen Cemetery, Clark
>Co., IN
>Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 22:31:18 -0500
>
>I believe this is the same John Gregg who does the WIBC morning show on
>Sat.
>from 6-9 a.m. Maybe a whole lot of us could call in this Sat. and let the
>rest of the state know how we feel about our cemeteries and how important
>they are. Just a suggestion. I think the phone number is 239-1070. Somebody
>please correct me if I am wrong. I had a 1-800 number somewhere. Once I
>find
>it I will post it on the list.
>I called in about an issue once and he is quick to get you off the phone,
>so
>make you point quickly!
>Angela Tielking
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Richard Kimball" <richkmball(a)hotmail.com>
>To: <INPCRP-L(a)rootsweb.com>
>Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2001 9:03 PM
>Subject: Re: [INPCRP] Petition and Order to Disinter Whalen Cemetery, Clark
>Co., IN
>
>
> > Would someone besides me, (because frankly I don't see eye to eye with
>him
> > at all), contact Speaker of the House John Gregg from Knox County about
>this
> > matter and the apparent "flaws" in our law and just see where he stands.
>One
> > reason is, his wife is a Circuit Court Judge in Knox County and it would
>be
> > very interesting to see what difference of opinions they might have on
>the
> > matter. I have a copy of a letter from John Gregg written about 7 years
>ago,
> > before he became so high and mighty, that states something to the fact
>that
> > he believes that all graves of individuals buried on Hoosier soil should
>be
> > protected and maintained. This is not a direct quote, as I do not have
>it
>in
> > front of me right now, but it is very close and I will post it here
>later
> > for your reference. Frankly, if the "big dog" in Indy doesn't see the
> > problem and take the ball and run with it, then the issue is going to
> > result, as it has in the past, as a dead horse!
> > Rich Kimball
> >
> > >From: "Lois Mauk" <LoisMauk(a)home.com>
> > >Reply-To: "Lois Mauk" <LoisMauk(a)home.com>
> > >To: INPCRP-L(a)rootsweb.com
> > >Subject: [INPCRP] Petition and Order to Disinter Whalen Cemetery, Clark
> > >Co., IN
> > >Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2001 22:20:19 -0400
> > >
> > >I picked up a copy of the entire file in Clark Circuit Court this
>morning.
> > >
> > >It's been uploaded in PDF format to:
> > >http://www.rootsweb.com/~incccpc/WHALENCemetery-PetitiontoDisinter.pdf
> > >(881K)
> > >
> > >Once again, all we find in the file is a half-dozen or so pieces of
>paper:
> > >
> > >(1) The 5/23/2001 Petition to Disinter, with the Affidavit of the
>funeral
> > >director (who is not the owner of the cemetery or the owner of the
> > >surrounding
> > >property, who did not identify for WHOM he is working, who did not
>advise
> > >the
> > >Court in his Affidavit that the property owner in question DOES NOT own
>the
> > >cemetery proper or that the Cemetery is a specific EXCEPTION on current
>and
> > >past deeds). The Petition alleges that the cemetery has not been
> > >"maintained"
> > >and that the stones therein are broken. [GEE, WHIZ! THAT COULD
>DESCRIBE
> > >AN
> > >ENORMOUS NUMBER OF CEMETERIES IN THE STATE.] The Petition alleges that
>it
> > >would be in the "best interest of the deceased to reinter their
>remains"
> > >elsewhere. Attached to the Petition are photographs of three broken
>stones
> > >(which were repaired by Dan and Betty Johnson in 1999 but which are
> > >mysteriously broken again?) and a letter from the Attorney for the
>County
> > >Commissioners, "recommending" that the graves be relocated.
> > >
> > >and
> > >
> > >(2) The 5/29/2001 Order to Disinter, Remove and Reinter Human Remains.
> > >
> > >I'm going to stop at the County Auditor's Office tomorrow on the way to
> > >work
> > >to see if I can get a copy of the minutes of the County Commissioners
> > >meeting
> > >wherein they voted to RECOMMEND the relocation of this cemetery.
> > >
> > >I'm not so upset that they are moving this 10' by 20' cemetery as I am
>over
> > >the fact that I believe this sets a DANGEROUS precedent. The
>Petitioner
> > >owns
> > >neither the cemetery NOR the surrounding property. The Petitioner is
>not
>a
> > >descendant. The Petitioner fails to identify who has "hired" him to
> > >relocate
> > >these graves. The Petitioner fails to inform the Court that his
>presumed
> > >"employer" (which would be the developer) does NOT own the cemetery.
>The
> > >Township Trustee, who knew in 1999 that the cemetery existed and that
>it
> > >was
> > >NOT TAXED or cared for, did not maintain the cemetery and because it
>has
> > >not
> > >been maintained, it should now be considered portable. There are three
> > >stones
> > >in the cemetery which were repaired in 1999 but which are now broken
>and
> > >lying
> > >in pieces on the ground. NEVERTHELESS, a Court Order was issued
>without
> > >hearing and the graves will be moved as soon as the State Department of
> > >Health
> > >rubber-stamped its permit (which it must do now in light of the Court
> > >Order).
> > >The developer now has another lot on which to build another house in
>his
> > >high-density subdivision. And further, the County Commissioners got in
>on
> > >this one by "recommending" that the graves be relocated. Finally, the
> > >Petitioner is a member of the so-called County Cemetery Commission.
> > >
> > >Enough said!
> > >
> > >Lois
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >==== INPCRP Mailing List ====
> > >To UNSUBSCRIBE, send message consisting only of
> > >"UNSUBSCRIBE" to INPCRP-L-REQUEST(a)rootsweb.com
> > > or to INPCRP-D-REQUEST(a)rootsweb.com (for DIGEST version)
> > >
> >
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at
>http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
> >
> >
> > ==== INPCRP Mailing List ====
> > "Show me your cemeteries, and I will tell you what kind of people you
>have."
> > Benjamin Franklin (1706 - 1790)
>
>
>==== INPCRP Mailing List ====
>To UNSUBSCRIBE, send message consisting only of
>"UNSUBSCRIBE" to INPCRP-L-REQUEST(a)rootsweb.com
> or to INPCRP-D-REQUEST(a)rootsweb.com (for DIGEST version)
>
_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
I still say that there comes a point when you have to do something drastic to
get people's attention...I did this on a couple of occasions when I refused
to implement a state wide child support system when I was county clerk. The
thing wasn't working but the state was rolling it out anyway because of
'deadlines' and the threat of funding being cut off.
Well, maybe a picture in the paper of people picketing the cemetery as the
remains are being exhumed by those heartless individuals might raise an
eyebrow, and I've always wondered about a lawsuit (class action maybe?) that
challenges the constitutionality of the law that allows for these bodies to
be moved since they and their family members assumed (and rightly so) that
their bodies would lie at rest in these locations permanently. There are
attorneys that would take up such a cause on a pro bono basis. And if we're
talking about a constitutional issue, the ICLU could look into it for us (and
I'm only mentioning this for the good of the cause, because I despise the
ICLU) Well, I've vented...
Kyle D. Conrad
Thanks for all the encouragement and kind words. I've got a FIRST DRAFT of a
Petition letter and form on-line at:
http://www.rootsweb.com/~inpcrp/Petition-Disinterment.PDF
(It's in Adobe Acrobat, of course.)
My thanks to Jack Briles for letting us use his P.O. Box to receive signed
Petitions. That's a big help, Jack.
Please take a few minutes to look at the letter and form. I really do hope to
hear your comments and thoughts. I am somewhat limited by the laws of physics
here as I can't add much without taking something out, but I'm certainly open
to suggestions.
I still need to put together the back-side of the Petition, which will have
reprints of pertinent statute language.
Don't start collecting signatures on these forms yet. I plan on having the
final form on-line by late Friday night, so get your comments to me today.
Thanks for everything you've done to help protecting Indiana's vanishing
pioneer family cemeteries.
Lois
Dear Lois and friends,
Please read the following article to learn about a recent trip that our
cemetery committee in Morgan Co., IN took. Perhaps it will lift your
spirits a little. This article will be in our monthly newsletter.
ARTICLE
She has been waiting for almost 150 years. She has been waiting silently,
while her Church fell down and the trees grew up around her. She has been
waiting patiently while lives and places have been forgotten. She has been
waiting to fulfill her destiny that she could not have done while she walked
this earth.
She has been waiting as people over the years have come and gone, hearing
them ask, "Is this the place?" She has waited while the landscape has
changed, the fields and forests giving rise to communities. She could hear
families laughing and playing, causing memories of her own family to stir
the air and rustle the leaves. All this time, with only the silent dead,
and the creatures of the wild for company, she has waited.
Her name is NANCY, and she walked this earth 53 years, 5 months and 22 days,
giving up her earthly body September 24, 1852. She was a wife, her husband
was Anderson F. Carter. According to the 1840 and 1850 Morgan Co., Indiana
census, she spent many years as a widow. She was a mother, raising at least
5 strong boys. Surely she was a very strong and faithful woman to continue
to raise her family alone. We don't know a lot about Nancy, she didn't
leave her mark on the world as one of the famous people. Her life was hard,
and she seemed to know a lot of sadness. Her epitaph reads: I long to lay
this painful head, and aching breast, beneath the soil, to slumber in that
dreamless bed, from all my toil."
Her important mark in this world came long after she was gone. You see, her
tombstone is all that is left as visible proof of the second Mt. Gilead
Cemetery in Madison Twp, Morgan Co., Indiana. From the Church history, we
(the cemetery committee) were able to tell that there were three sites for
the church. The first one is about œ mile away from where Nancy was laid to
rest. The second site of the church is where Nancy has been a silent
sentinel for almost 150 years. Our small group had been to this location,
believing we had the right place, but lacking in proof. No stones were
visible, only some large foundation stones we felt marked where the church
once stood. This past weekend, we ventured into this Holy place, probably
for the last time, as there is so many places we need to see, and so little
time. Amazingly, one of our group noticed something in the thick brush
covered by a tree root. On closer inspection, we were overjoyed to discover
that it was a tombstone. We could not read the writing because of the tree
root covering it. We were able to remove the tree root, and recover the
stone. It was in perfect condition, no cracks or chips. This stone is the
only one we have been able to find in this cemetery, although we feel there
were many burials here. We were able to stand the stone back up, and clean
it off so that we could read it. This lone stone has given us renewed hope
and determination. We have been given the gift of satisfaction in knowing
that what we are doing is good and right. We must try to locate and
preserve our Pioneer cemeteries for the future. It was Nancy's destiny to
be the tool to renew our spirits and connect us to a time long gone, but
hopefully, not forever forgotten.
Helen Wildermuth
2 July, 2001
Looks great
Jim and Lisa
>> Dear Friends:
>>
>> I have put together a new webpage on the subject of disinterment of
>"portable"
>> pioneer cemeteries and I'd like your comments and input before I "go
>public"
>> with it. Please take a look at:
>> http://www.rootsweb.com/~inpcrp/disinterment.html
>> and let me know your thoughts.
>>
>>
>
>
>==== INPCRP Mailing List ====
>If we cannot respect the dead, how can we respect the living?
>
>
>
Jack,
I believe you hit the proverbial nail on the head..........$$MONEY$$.... it
can't buy you happiness but it sure can buy you any land or old cemetery lot
if you want to build on it.
UEB
Henry County, IN
----- Original Message -----
From: <Jb502000(a)aol.com>
To: <INPCRP-L(a)rootsweb.com>
Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2001 8:38 PM
Subject: Re: [INPCRP] Petition and Order to Disinter Whalen Cemetery, Clark
Co., IN
> Apparently there is, and has been a communication problem on Pioneer
> Cemeteries in Indiana. I don't think to many on the List paid attention to
> what I reported. In February when I was trying to save 3 cemeteries in
Floyd
> Co. I called everyone and asked for help on the State Level. The Health
Dept,
> The Department of Historic Preservation and Archeology, and the DNR, they
> were absolutely no help whatsoever. The Law says to Disinter an Reintere
you
> must notify these Offices. That is when the little word OR comes into
play.
> It is used as follows: "OR the local Circuit Court Judge." I talked to A
DNR
> attorney and asked if it is so simple as to go to the Local Judge, Why is
the
> rest of the Law included. Developers could just stay local (As with the
> Whalen Cem) The attorney almost sarcastically told me if I didn't like
what
> was going on, hire an attorney, that is what THEY are for. I can't afford
to
> do that for 3 cemeteries when there are none of my relatives buried there.
I
> mistakenly believed the 3 Departments would help. But the Smith Cemetery
was
> moved and not one State Employee knew when or where they were moved to.
They
> said at that time with the orders from the Judges they were not involved.
If
> you don't think this will deflate your enthusiasm quick, then welcome to
the
> real world. I've been there and done that. I can't afford the money, I
don't
> stand to gain from the movement, but a Developer, depending on the size of
> the development just considers it a part of doing business. If the State
Laws
> can be bypassed so easily you can understand how I felt. It looks good on
> paper, but apparently the Hills in Southern Indiana aren't much to worry
> about. You people in the Central, and Northern Part of the State should
come
> down and see what kind of Conditions we have in our very hilly, wooded
> County's. Then you can understand the Judges words about the bodies being
> better off in another cemetery. The Heavily Grownup Fowler?Mundy cemetery
in
> Marion Co. was a Breeze to some of ours. My final words are, Until the
State
> Laws mean something, We mean Nothing.
> It would take several $50,000 dollars to clean the cemeteries in Floyd
County
> and repair ( some ) of the stones. The County won't do it, and I am only
one
> Person. No Organizations here have volunteered, although they know what I
am
> trying to do. Enough said.
>
> Jack E. Briles Sr.
>
>
>
>
> ==== INPCRP Mailing List ====
> If we cannot respect the dead, how can we respect the living?
>
Just got this really interesting message from Jon Crichfield. Any of you have
any experience with or knowledge about this federal statute? Be sure to read
Jon's paragraph about the "back-door".
Lois
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jon Crichfield" <joncrich(a)earthlink.net>
To: <LoisMauk(a)usa.net>
Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2001 10:52 PM
Subject: INPCRP Website
> Hello Lois,
>
> While researching my family burial plots in Indiana (I live in Virginia) I
> have found many references to the lack of protection of cemeteries by
> Indiana law.
>
> Has anyone ever approached the AUSA (Assistant United States Attorneys
> Office) in regard to the Archaeological Resource Protection Act
> (16USC470ee)? Its also known as ARPA.
>
> Basically, you'll have an ARPA violation if the object or site is:
>
> * 100 years old or older,
> * made by a human,
> * and is located on Federal or Indian lands.
>
> To prove the site to older than 100 years, the law requires an archaeologist
> to assess the site. The law does not require the violator to know
> specifically that they were breaking the law when they destroyed, damaged,
> tampered or altered the object/site. All a prosecutor has to do is prove
> general intent to convict under ARPA.
>
> The law is usually interpreted to apply only to Federal or Indian lands,
> however there is a back door built into the code... if the violator breaks
> any State law on private lands while in the action of destroying, damaging,
> tampering or altering the object/site then they have violated ARPA.
>
> ARPA has federal misdemeanor and felony provisions. The misdemeanors can be
> up toward $5000.00 fine and/or 1 year in prison. The felonies can have up
> towards $250,000.00 fine and/or 5 years in prison for each count.
>
> Additionally, the National Environmental Protection Act (NEPA) was enacted
> in 1992 by Congress. NEPA forces States and all federal agencies to review
> processes which would "potentially" impact the environment. One of the
> provisions in NEPA (known as "section 106") requires archaeological
> assessments done on all projects which may have an impact on state or
> federal properties. Majority of states have adopted a NEPA statute which
> forces some sort of 106 compliance.
>
> Just thought you may want to check into the other options that can be used
> to protect the Pioneer cemeteries.
>
>
>
>
Sue, you crack me up!
I just love your line, ". . . those people who are out there playing checkers
with your state's dead people."
May I use this one?
Lois
----- Original Message -----
From: G Tielking
To: Jb502000(a)aol.com
Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2001 12:14 AM
Subject: Re: Angela, young people can change the world !!
Jack,
You are such a sweet person. But I think you have had so many frustrating moments down in Floyd Co., you kinda lost your "get up and go".
I will fess up. There were times that I would say to myself, "why am I doing this? They won't listen to me. I am only one person and I can't do it",etc....blah, blah,blah. At that point when I would start to feel down, I would go back to Gard cemetery where my poor 4th great-grandmother is buried and look at the horrible condition of it. Then I would say, "this is why I am doing it." Then I would get mad all over again and fight harder. This issue to me has been a definite confidence builder. I refused to give up. And the commissioners finally realized that I wasn't going to go away. YOU CAN WIN! Don't give up.
I didn't do it by myself anyway. There were phone calls, letters, and e-mails, and a brave 14 year old girl making an appearance before the commissioners that showed I was not the only one concerned about the cemeteries. WE all made the difference.
DON'T GIVE UP!
I think God has blessed all of us on this list. He has blessed us with a good heart, a conscience, and caring attitude.
Sincerely,
Angela
----- Original Message -----
From: Jb502000(a)aol.com
Cc: G Tielking
Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2001 7:46 PM
Subject: Angela, young people can change the world !!
Angela, I've kept quiet. I was almost afraid to breath loudly and cause
something to go wrong. Joan of Arc accepted her fate and was burned at the
stake for what she believed in. I watched your E-mails, and I believe you
would have also If necessary. Young people are different then some of us
older persons. We really don't have the will power to fight the good fight.
We say we do, but we don't keep going back. You and I will never have a
disagreement, I know I couldn't Win. Keep up the good work, Good Luck, and
God HAS Blessed you,
Jack E. Briles
jb502000(a)aol.com
I believe this is the same John Gregg who does the WIBC morning show on Sat.
from 6-9 a.m. Maybe a whole lot of us could call in this Sat. and let the
rest of the state know how we feel about our cemeteries and how important
they are. Just a suggestion. I think the phone number is 239-1070. Somebody
please correct me if I am wrong. I had a 1-800 number somewhere. Once I find
it I will post it on the list.
I called in about an issue once and he is quick to get you off the phone, so
make you point quickly!
Angela Tielking
----- Original Message -----
From: "Richard Kimball" <richkmball(a)hotmail.com>
To: <INPCRP-L(a)rootsweb.com>
Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2001 9:03 PM
Subject: Re: [INPCRP] Petition and Order to Disinter Whalen Cemetery, Clark
Co., IN
> Would someone besides me, (because frankly I don't see eye to eye with him
> at all), contact Speaker of the House John Gregg from Knox County about
this
> matter and the apparent "flaws" in our law and just see where he stands.
One
> reason is, his wife is a Circuit Court Judge in Knox County and it would
be
> very interesting to see what difference of opinions they might have on the
> matter. I have a copy of a letter from John Gregg written about 7 years
ago,
> before he became so high and mighty, that states something to the fact
that
> he believes that all graves of individuals buried on Hoosier soil should
be
> protected and maintained. This is not a direct quote, as I do not have it
in
> front of me right now, but it is very close and I will post it here later
> for your reference. Frankly, if the "big dog" in Indy doesn't see the
> problem and take the ball and run with it, then the issue is going to
> result, as it has in the past, as a dead horse!
> Rich Kimball
>
> >From: "Lois Mauk" <LoisMauk(a)home.com>
> >Reply-To: "Lois Mauk" <LoisMauk(a)home.com>
> >To: INPCRP-L(a)rootsweb.com
> >Subject: [INPCRP] Petition and Order to Disinter Whalen Cemetery, Clark
> >Co., IN
> >Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2001 22:20:19 -0400
> >
> >I picked up a copy of the entire file in Clark Circuit Court this
morning.
> >
> >It's been uploaded in PDF format to:
> >http://www.rootsweb.com/~incccpc/WHALENCemetery-PetitiontoDisinter.pdf
> >(881K)
> >
> >Once again, all we find in the file is a half-dozen or so pieces of
paper:
> >
> >(1) The 5/23/2001 Petition to Disinter, with the Affidavit of the funeral
> >director (who is not the owner of the cemetery or the owner of the
> >surrounding
> >property, who did not identify for WHOM he is working, who did not advise
> >the
> >Court in his Affidavit that the property owner in question DOES NOT own
the
> >cemetery proper or that the Cemetery is a specific EXCEPTION on current
and
> >past deeds). The Petition alleges that the cemetery has not been
> >"maintained"
> >and that the stones therein are broken. [GEE, WHIZ! THAT COULD DESCRIBE
> >AN
> >ENORMOUS NUMBER OF CEMETERIES IN THE STATE.] The Petition alleges that
it
> >would be in the "best interest of the deceased to reinter their remains"
> >elsewhere. Attached to the Petition are photographs of three broken
stones
> >(which were repaired by Dan and Betty Johnson in 1999 but which are
> >mysteriously broken again?) and a letter from the Attorney for the County
> >Commissioners, "recommending" that the graves be relocated.
> >
> >and
> >
> >(2) The 5/29/2001 Order to Disinter, Remove and Reinter Human Remains.
> >
> >I'm going to stop at the County Auditor's Office tomorrow on the way to
> >work
> >to see if I can get a copy of the minutes of the County Commissioners
> >meeting
> >wherein they voted to RECOMMEND the relocation of this cemetery.
> >
> >I'm not so upset that they are moving this 10' by 20' cemetery as I am
over
> >the fact that I believe this sets a DANGEROUS precedent. The Petitioner
> >owns
> >neither the cemetery NOR the surrounding property. The Petitioner is not
a
> >descendant. The Petitioner fails to identify who has "hired" him to
> >relocate
> >these graves. The Petitioner fails to inform the Court that his presumed
> >"employer" (which would be the developer) does NOT own the cemetery. The
> >Township Trustee, who knew in 1999 that the cemetery existed and that it
> >was
> >NOT TAXED or cared for, did not maintain the cemetery and because it has
> >not
> >been maintained, it should now be considered portable. There are three
> >stones
> >in the cemetery which were repaired in 1999 but which are now broken and
> >lying
> >in pieces on the ground. NEVERTHELESS, a Court Order was issued without
> >hearing and the graves will be moved as soon as the State Department of
> >Health
> >rubber-stamped its permit (which it must do now in light of the Court
> >Order).
> >The developer now has another lot on which to build another house in his
> >high-density subdivision. And further, the County Commissioners got in
on
> >this one by "recommending" that the graves be relocated. Finally, the
> >Petitioner is a member of the so-called County Cemetery Commission.
> >
> >Enough said!
> >
> >Lois
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >==== INPCRP Mailing List ====
> >To UNSUBSCRIBE, send message consisting only of
> >"UNSUBSCRIBE" to INPCRP-L-REQUEST(a)rootsweb.com
> > or to INPCRP-D-REQUEST(a)rootsweb.com (for DIGEST version)
> >
>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
>
>
> ==== INPCRP Mailing List ====
> "Show me your cemeteries, and I will tell you what kind of people you
have."
> Benjamin Franklin (1706 - 1790)
Dear Friends:
I have put together a new webpage on the subject of disinterment of "portable"
pioneer cemeteries and I'd like your comments and input before I "go public"
with it. Please take a look at:
http://www.rootsweb.com/~inpcrp/disinterment.html
and let me know your thoughts.
As I understand the "system", DNR or even the State Department of Health
cannot approach the Legislators with what they believe to be problems with the
law. If the Legislators ask these agencies for their input, they can ANSWER
questions, but they can't broach the subject with them.
We had a good response to our last petition drive and I think we can have an
impact once again.
I know we have a LOT of issues we'd like to see addressed (ingress and egress,
maintenance, repairs, probing, etc.) but this one is smacking Clark and Floyd
County squarely between the eyes and we can't ignore it any longer.
I haven't started drafting the Petition itself yet, but it will contain many
of the thoughts set out on http://www.rootsweb.com/~inpcrp/disinterment.html ,
so once that passes muster, I will start putting the Petition document
together.
We've got a lot more members on board now than we did back in 1998 when we
circulated Petitions the last time. In 1998, we delivered something like 800+
petition signatures to Rep. Lytle and he had his e-mail box overflowing with
comments.
Rep. Lytle will be speaking at the 10/6/2001 Workshop in Madison and I think
we can collect a LOT of signatures between now and then, so they can be
presented to him in person.
Let me know your thoughts about
http://www.rootsweb.com/~inpcrp/disinterment.html
Lois
Would someone besides me, (because frankly I don't see eye to eye with him
at all), contact Speaker of the House John Gregg from Knox County about this
matter and the apparent "flaws" in our law and just see where he stands. One
reason is, his wife is a Circuit Court Judge in Knox County and it would be
very interesting to see what difference of opinions they might have on the
matter. I have a copy of a letter from John Gregg written about 7 years ago,
before he became so high and mighty, that states something to the fact that
he believes that all graves of individuals buried on Hoosier soil should be
protected and maintained. This is not a direct quote, as I do not have it in
front of me right now, but it is very close and I will post it here later
for your reference. Frankly, if the "big dog" in Indy doesn't see the
problem and take the ball and run with it, then the issue is going to
result, as it has in the past, as a dead horse!
Rich Kimball
>From: "Lois Mauk" <LoisMauk(a)home.com>
>Reply-To: "Lois Mauk" <LoisMauk(a)home.com>
>To: INPCRP-L(a)rootsweb.com
>Subject: [INPCRP] Petition and Order to Disinter Whalen Cemetery, Clark
>Co., IN
>Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2001 22:20:19 -0400
>
>I picked up a copy of the entire file in Clark Circuit Court this morning.
>
>It's been uploaded in PDF format to:
>http://www.rootsweb.com/~incccpc/WHALENCemetery-PetitiontoDisinter.pdf
>(881K)
>
>Once again, all we find in the file is a half-dozen or so pieces of paper:
>
>(1) The 5/23/2001 Petition to Disinter, with the Affidavit of the funeral
>director (who is not the owner of the cemetery or the owner of the
>surrounding
>property, who did not identify for WHOM he is working, who did not advise
>the
>Court in his Affidavit that the property owner in question DOES NOT own the
>cemetery proper or that the Cemetery is a specific EXCEPTION on current and
>past deeds). The Petition alleges that the cemetery has not been
>"maintained"
>and that the stones therein are broken. [GEE, WHIZ! THAT COULD DESCRIBE
>AN
>ENORMOUS NUMBER OF CEMETERIES IN THE STATE.] The Petition alleges that it
>would be in the "best interest of the deceased to reinter their remains"
>elsewhere. Attached to the Petition are photographs of three broken stones
>(which were repaired by Dan and Betty Johnson in 1999 but which are
>mysteriously broken again?) and a letter from the Attorney for the County
>Commissioners, "recommending" that the graves be relocated.
>
>and
>
>(2) The 5/29/2001 Order to Disinter, Remove and Reinter Human Remains.
>
>I'm going to stop at the County Auditor's Office tomorrow on the way to
>work
>to see if I can get a copy of the minutes of the County Commissioners
>meeting
>wherein they voted to RECOMMEND the relocation of this cemetery.
>
>I'm not so upset that they are moving this 10' by 20' cemetery as I am over
>the fact that I believe this sets a DANGEROUS precedent. The Petitioner
>owns
>neither the cemetery NOR the surrounding property. The Petitioner is not a
>descendant. The Petitioner fails to identify who has "hired" him to
>relocate
>these graves. The Petitioner fails to inform the Court that his presumed
>"employer" (which would be the developer) does NOT own the cemetery. The
>Township Trustee, who knew in 1999 that the cemetery existed and that it
>was
>NOT TAXED or cared for, did not maintain the cemetery and because it has
>not
>been maintained, it should now be considered portable. There are three
>stones
>in the cemetery which were repaired in 1999 but which are now broken and
>lying
>in pieces on the ground. NEVERTHELESS, a Court Order was issued without
>hearing and the graves will be moved as soon as the State Department of
>Health
>rubber-stamped its permit (which it must do now in light of the Court
>Order).
>The developer now has another lot on which to build another house in his
>high-density subdivision. And further, the County Commissioners got in on
>this one by "recommending" that the graves be relocated. Finally, the
>Petitioner is a member of the so-called County Cemetery Commission.
>
>Enough said!
>
>Lois
>
>
>
>
>==== INPCRP Mailing List ====
>To UNSUBSCRIBE, send message consisting only of
>"UNSUBSCRIBE" to INPCRP-L-REQUEST(a)rootsweb.com
> or to INPCRP-D-REQUEST(a)rootsweb.com (for DIGEST version)
>
_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
Apparently there is, and has been a communication problem on Pioneer
Cemeteries in Indiana. I don't think to many on the List paid attention to
what I reported. In February when I was trying to save 3 cemeteries in Floyd
Co. I called everyone and asked for help on the State Level. The Health Dept,
The Department of Historic Preservation and Archeology, and the DNR, they
were absolutely no help whatsoever. The Law says to Disinter an Reintere you
must notify these Offices. That is when the little word OR comes into play.
It is used as follows: "OR the local Circuit Court Judge." I talked to A DNR
attorney and asked if it is so simple as to go to the Local Judge, Why is the
rest of the Law included. Developers could just stay local (As with the
Whalen Cem) The attorney almost sarcastically told me if I didn't like what
was going on, hire an attorney, that is what THEY are for. I can't afford to
do that for 3 cemeteries when there are none of my relatives buried there. I
mistakenly believed the 3 Departments would help. But the Smith Cemetery was
moved and not one State Employee knew when or where they were moved to. They
said at that time with the orders from the Judges they were not involved. If
you don't think this will deflate your enthusiasm quick, then welcome to the
real world. I've been there and done that. I can't afford the money, I don't
stand to gain from the movement, but a Developer, depending on the size of
the development just considers it a part of doing business. If the State Laws
can be bypassed so easily you can understand how I felt. It looks good on
paper, but apparently the Hills in Southern Indiana aren't much to worry
about. You people in the Central, and Northern Part of the State should come
down and see what kind of Conditions we have in our very hilly, wooded
County's. Then you can understand the Judges words about the bodies being
better off in another cemetery. The Heavily Grownup Fowler?Mundy cemetery in
Marion Co. was a Breeze to some of ours. My final words are, Until the State
Laws mean something, We mean Nothing.
It would take several $50,000 dollars to clean the cemeteries in Floyd County
and repair ( some ) of the stones. The County won't do it, and I am only one
Person. No Organizations here have volunteered, although they know what I am
trying to do. Enough said.
Jack E. Briles Sr.
You're forgiven....
Sue
----- Original Message -----
From: <Jb502000(a)aol.com>
To: <INPCRP-L(a)rootsweb.com>
Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2001 7:03 PM
Subject: Re: [INPCRP] Petition and Order to Disinter Whalen Cemetery, Clark
Co., IN
> Correction on my Last E-Mail, "Several" should not have been in front of
> $50,000
>
> Jack
>
>
>
>
> ==== INPCRP Mailing List ====
> If you know of some good cemetery related links, send them to
LoisMauk(a)usa.net.
>
>
>
Rich,
Does the big guy have an email address??
Sue Silver
California
----- Original Message -----
From: Richard Kimball <richkmball(a)hotmail.com>
To: <INPCRP-L(a)rootsweb.com>
Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2001 7:03 PM
Subject: Re: [INPCRP] Petition and Order to Disinter Whalen Cemetery, Clark
Co., IN
> Would someone besides me, (because frankly I don't see eye to eye with him
> at all), contact Speaker of the House John Gregg from Knox County about
this
> matter and the apparent "flaws" in our law and just see where he stands.
One
> reason is, his wife is a Circuit Court Judge in Knox County and it would
be
> very interesting to see what difference of opinions they might have on the
> matter. I have a copy of a letter from John Gregg written about 7 years
ago,
> before he became so high and mighty, that states something to the fact
that
> he believes that all graves of individuals buried on Hoosier soil should
be
> protected and maintained. This is not a direct quote, as I do not have it
in
> front of me right now, but it is very close and I will post it here later
> for your reference. Frankly, if the "big dog" in Indy doesn't see the
> problem and take the ball and run with it, then the issue is going to
> result, as it has in the past, as a dead horse!
> Rich Kimball
>
> >From: "Lois Mauk" <LoisMauk(a)home.com>
> >Reply-To: "Lois Mauk" <LoisMauk(a)home.com>
> >To: INPCRP-L(a)rootsweb.com
> >Subject: [INPCRP] Petition and Order to Disinter Whalen Cemetery, Clark
> >Co., IN
> >Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2001 22:20:19 -0400
> >
> >I picked up a copy of the entire file in Clark Circuit Court this
morning.
> >
> >It's been uploaded in PDF format to:
> >http://www.rootsweb.com/~incccpc/WHALENCemetery-PetitiontoDisinter.pdf
> >(881K)
> >
> >Once again, all we find in the file is a half-dozen or so pieces of
paper:
> >
> >(1) The 5/23/2001 Petition to Disinter, with the Affidavit of the funeral
> >director (who is not the owner of the cemetery or the owner of the
> >surrounding
> >property, who did not identify for WHOM he is working, who did not advise
> >the
> >Court in his Affidavit that the property owner in question DOES NOT own
the
> >cemetery proper or that the Cemetery is a specific EXCEPTION on current
and
> >past deeds). The Petition alleges that the cemetery has not been
> >"maintained"
> >and that the stones therein are broken. [GEE, WHIZ! THAT COULD DESCRIBE
> >AN
> >ENORMOUS NUMBER OF CEMETERIES IN THE STATE.] The Petition alleges that
it
> >would be in the "best interest of the deceased to reinter their remains"
> >elsewhere. Attached to the Petition are photographs of three broken
stones
> >(which were repaired by Dan and Betty Johnson in 1999 but which are
> >mysteriously broken again?) and a letter from the Attorney for the County
> >Commissioners, "recommending" that the graves be relocated.
> >
> >and
> >
> >(2) The 5/29/2001 Order to Disinter, Remove and Reinter Human Remains.
> >
> >I'm going to stop at the County Auditor's Office tomorrow on the way to
> >work
> >to see if I can get a copy of the minutes of the County Commissioners
> >meeting
> >wherein they voted to RECOMMEND the relocation of this cemetery.
> >
> >I'm not so upset that they are moving this 10' by 20' cemetery as I am
over
> >the fact that I believe this sets a DANGEROUS precedent. The Petitioner
> >owns
> >neither the cemetery NOR the surrounding property. The Petitioner is not
a
> >descendant. The Petitioner fails to identify who has "hired" him to
> >relocate
> >these graves. The Petitioner fails to inform the Court that his presumed
> >"employer" (which would be the developer) does NOT own the cemetery. The
> >Township Trustee, who knew in 1999 that the cemetery existed and that it
> >was
> >NOT TAXED or cared for, did not maintain the cemetery and because it has
> >not
> >been maintained, it should now be considered portable. There are three
> >stones
> >in the cemetery which were repaired in 1999 but which are now broken and
> >lying
> >in pieces on the ground. NEVERTHELESS, a Court Order was issued without
> >hearing and the graves will be moved as soon as the State Department of
> >Health
> >rubber-stamped its permit (which it must do now in light of the Court
> >Order).
> >The developer now has another lot on which to build another house in his
> >high-density subdivision. And further, the County Commissioners got in
on
> >this one by "recommending" that the graves be relocated. Finally, the
> >Petitioner is a member of the so-called County Cemetery Commission.
> >
> >Enough said!
> >
> >Lois
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >==== INPCRP Mailing List ====
> >To UNSUBSCRIBE, send message consisting only of
> >"UNSUBSCRIBE" to INPCRP-L-REQUEST(a)rootsweb.com
> > or to INPCRP-D-REQUEST(a)rootsweb.com (for DIGEST version)
> >
>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
>
>
> ==== INPCRP Mailing List ====
> "Show me your cemeteries, and I will tell you what kind of people you
have."
> Benjamin Franklin (1706 - 1790)
>
>
>
I posted a message regarding the disinterrment order to the Whalen surname
Board and a version to the Clark County, IN message board.
Whalen:
<http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec?htx=message&r=rw&p=surnames.whalen&m=544>
Clark County:
<http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec?htx=message&r=rw&p=localities.northam.u...>
I would ask why these things keep happening, but I know too well the
rea$on for them. It's too bad a solicitation for donations couldn't have
been made for a fence, a tree and stone repair? Could that have been
cheaper than digging them up, moving them, burying them again, and coming
up with new stones? And who is paying for the disinterrment? The county
commissioners? or cemetery commission? taxpayers? How many cemeteries
won't be mowed because of the money used to move and remark these graves?
Between the vandalism to graves, stealing from graves and this type of
what?--land reclamation?, there seems to be no end to it! Posting to a
couple of message boards is hardly any way to address the problem, but
it's all I know how to contribute at the present moment and maybe someone
interested will see the posts.
Sandy
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger
http://phonecard.yahoo.com/
No offense to anyone, but if this site insists on calling Folsom a Ghost
Town, I would be somewhat suspicious of the other information it's giving
out. Who in their right mind would call the fastest growing city in
Sacramento County a "ghost town?"
Many of the buildings shown in the photos are not original and most of those
were built by Bud Davies and others in the 1960's and 70's. The cemetery
photos are of St. John the Baptist Catholic Cemetery and the only reason
they've used those exclusively is because of the six historic cemeteries in
Folsom, St. John's is the only one which has been raped and pilaged in
someway by the operators.
The Folsom Jewish, the old Masonic, the Odd Fellows, the Citizen's and the
William Murray (later part of Citizen's) cemeteries have all been raped of
tombstones, tombstone bases and plot coping pieces. Combined with the New
Masonic Cemetery (located in what used to be Sacramento Street), these
cemeteries are now called "Lakeside Cemetery and Mausoleum." I had the
Dept. of Consumer Affairs and the State Parks Dept. there in the Fall of
1996 and they removed literally hundreds of tons of granite and concrete
coping and tombstone bases from state lands where the operator had dumped it
after he removed it from the cemetery. My research indicates that there are
about 60 family plots missing, representing approximately 300 graves.
In afterthought, maybe Folsom is a Ghost Town after all.
Sue Silver
El Dorado County, CA
P.S. To my friends in INDIANA, my investigation of what occurred at
"Lakeside Cemetery" is what started me on cemeteries...thought I would share
this with you.
----- Original Message -----
From: Sandra Harris <sandrah(a)ix.netcom.com>
To: <CASACRAM-L(a)rootsweb.com>
Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2001 5:18 AM
Subject: [CASACRAM] new website?
> Not sure if all know of this
> http://www.rootsweb.com/~casacram/
> I just found it. Sandra
>
>
>