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In a message dated 4/17/01 3:05:01 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
cdmyers(a)sigecom.net writes:
<< From: cdmyers(a)sigecom.net (Chris Myers)
Reply-to: INPCRP-L(a)rootsweb.com
To: INPCRP-L(a)rootsweb.com
Hi!
Watch out for soccer balls if you visit Oak Hill Cemetery in
Vanderburgh County. 50 acres of unused land from Oak Hill
Cemetery, will be made into a Soccer Complex that will contain
13 fields, more than 600 paved parking spaces, and a main
pavilion with concessions and restrooms. >>
Chris, sorry about the delay in answering. I have a question. Wont this
proposed project require close supervision on the cemetery because of the
large number of children suddenly brought in next to this old cemetery.
Children do wander around. I don't know if a good fence is, or will be
constructed for separation of the two, but it should be. And warning signs
should be put up at the cemetery about vandalism. Out of a large number of
children like this we had in Ohio, I saw things get out of hand. With in 3
months I saw vandalism occur when 4 acres of adjacent land was cleared and
made into a park. This should be brought to the local Officials attention, so
potential problems can be solved before they happen. The consequences could
be disastrous. Apparently this cemetery has been fairly isolated until now.
Now hundreds of children will suddenly made aware of it's existence. Keep a
close watch, and don't be afraid to speak up.
Robert Real (Bob)
In a message dated 4/20/2001 9:48:35 AM Central Daylight Time,
sirbeau(a)k-inc.com writes:
<< Does your trustee not know how to budget for cemetery clean-ups? Or maybe
she or he needs a copy of their responsibilities.
>>
I've had written and verbal communication with this trustee and she claims to
have no money to maintain this cemetery. This is not the only one that she
neglects. The irony of it all is that her father, uncle, and grandfather
were all in the funeral home business in Henry County, and her dad still is a
member of the cemetery board at one of the nicest and best kept cemeteries in
the area...
Kyle D. Conrad
Well said Sue......Unfortunately there are more GAR markers in Antique Shops
than where they belong in Cemeteries! Stolen.....I would never consider
buying one of these for my collection of Civil War Memorabilia......never!
John Roush
-----Original Message-----
From: Sue Silver <ssilver1951(a)jps.net>
To: INPCRP-L(a)rootsweb.com <INPCRP-L(a)rootsweb.com>
Date: Friday, April 20, 2001 9:03 AM
Subject: Re: [INPCRP] Memorial Day & Miniature Flag Staffs
>I would think stealing anything off a veteran's grave would be a crime in
>any state. Not so in Indiana?
>
>Sue Silver
>California
>----- Original Message -----
>From: David Cheesman <kdcheesman(a)netnitco.net>
>To: <INPCRP-L(a)rootsweb.com>
>Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2001 10:08 PM
>Subject: [INPCRP] Memorial Day & Miniature Flag Staffs
>
>
>> Dear Friends:
>> recently there was some interesting discussion on this site regarding the
>metal miniature G.A.R. flag staffs that seem to be disappearing from
>cemeteries.
>> I have always heard and I sincerely believe that anything removed from
>cemeteries without permission will bring severe bad luck to those
possessing
>it.
>> Anyway, I wrote an article on the origins of Memorial Day Flags a decade
>or so ago, and recebtly came across my manuscripts, photos and a 1904
>newspaper item introducing Permanent Markers for Soldier's Graves.
>> Anyone desiring to see this item may want to check out the subject headed
>MEMORIAL DAY FLAGS at:
>http://www.geocities.com/gardenofstones1989/Memorial_Day_Flags.html?9877400
2
>>
>> All kindest wishes, Dave Cheesman
>> gardenofstones1989(a)yahoo.com
>>
>>
>> ==== INPCRP Mailing List ====
>> "Show me your cemeteries, and I will tell you what kind of people you
>have."
>> Benjamin Franklin (1706 - 1790)
>>
>>
>
>
>==== INPCRP Mailing List ====
>If you know of some good cemetery related links, send them to
LoisMauk(a)usa.net.
Sue and all
Last year I went through several weeks of discussion with the Ind AG office
and eBay lawyers re the sale of grave markers. Unless one can prove that the
individual marker came from a specific grave and cemetery, little can be
done. One of the most vexing problems is that you or anyone else can buy a
gravemarker, even reproductions of military or special markers and place
them yourself making it is alomst impossible to prove that they were stolen.
They even legally sell markers that have been made to look old. People even
buy markers with their personal names on them and place them in their homes
and yards. Even military markers! Its a very difficult issue to address.
Regards
Art Dillman
David,
This is so wonderful you have shared this article today.
I was just talking to a Boy Scout parent about this last night.
His troop has been ask to put out flags and had a quick lesson
on how to place them on the graves. This will top it off.
I really hope to get more Scouts involved in cleaning up our cemeteries.
Having some fun history tid bits will be very useful.
Thank you,
L. A. Clugh
Tippecanoe County Pioneer Cemeteries Group Workshop
http://www.rootsweb.com/~inpcrp/TippecanoeWorkshop.html
I know there is a conflicting even going on May 12th, but that is the date
that we will be working on the Messick Cemetery in Blue River Twp., Henry
Co., IN. This will be the third clean up in four years at Messick. No
matter what we do, the trustee claims she has no money to maintain the
cemetery after we're done. Since I have not been to the cemetery since last
summer, we are hoping all that needs done this time is clearing the weeds and
not so many trees. We are also hoping to start leveling off the ground and
filling in some sunken graves. Anyone wanting to stop by and lend a hand or
just look the place over is welcome to. Those needing directions can email
me at KidClerk(a)aol.com.
Thanks,
Kyle D. Conrad
I am happy to announce some details on the May 19 Cemetery Restoration
Workshop in Kokomo.
Pioneer Cemetery Restoration -
"Who, What, How?" - A Hands-on Workshop
May 19, 2001
8:30 a.m. 4:30 p.m.
Featuring
John Walters, Fayette County Cemetery Supervisor; Member, National
Association for Gravestone Studies, will be demonstrating restoration
techniques
Lois Mauk Indiana State Coordinator of the INPCRP Indiana Pioneer Cemetery
Restoration Project will be speaking about Indiana Laws regarding Cemeteries.
Maryanne Randjelovic of Crown Hill Cemetery Heritage Foundation will be
speaking on the value of cemeteries to our culture & society with a focus
on icons used in the carvings of pioneer-era tombstones.
Debra Beheler and Rebecca Miller of the Miami-Cass Indiana Pioneer Cemetery
Project will be presenting information about Bassett Cemetery and about
their restoration projects.
The morning session will be held at the Kokomo-Howard County Public Library
(220 N. Union St.) in the second floor Community Room. The afternoon will
be spent at Bassett Cemetery doing preservation work with John Walters.
Please come dressed to work. (Work gloves) See photos at
http://www.kokomo.lib.in.us/genealogy/bassettcem.html
Cost is $18. per person and includes lunch. Participants must pre-register
by May 16th. 8:30 a.m. check in and welcome with continental breakfast.
Please park in one of the two parking lots east of the library and enter
through the back door prior to 9 a.m.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Name _______________________ email address _________________
Mailing address ____________________________________________
Please make checks payable to & mail to: Kokomo-Howard County Public Library
220 N Union St
Kokomo, Indiana 46901
For further information contact: Michele McNabb or Debra Beheler
765-457-3242 ex. 44 genroom(a)kokomo.lib.in.us
http://www.kokomo.lib.in.us/genealogy/wrkshp.html
@>--- @>--- @>--- @>--- @>--- @>--- @>--- @>--- @>--- @>--- @>--- @>---
Debby Beheler -
http://www.rootsweb.com/~inpcrpmc/index.html - Miami Cass INPCRP
Dear Friends:
recently there was some interesting discussion on this site regarding the metal miniature G.A.R. flag staffs that seem to be disappearing from cemeteries.
I have always heard and I sincerely believe that anything removed from cemeteries without permission will bring severe bad luck to those possessing it.
Anyway, I wrote an article on the origins of Memorial Day Flags a decade or so ago, and recebtly came across my manuscripts, photos and a 1904 newspaper item introducing Permanent Markers for Soldier's Graves.
Anyone desiring to see this item may want to check out the subject headed MEMORIAL DAY FLAGS at: http://www.geocities.com/gardenofstones1989/Memorial_Day_Flags.html?98774002
All kindest wishes, Dave Cheesman
gardenofstones1989(a)yahoo.com
Anyone in the area sure should take advantage of this program...wish I was
there..it really sounds terrific...and all the smart ones are going to be
speakers !!!! don't miss it...........
Sue Noe
-----Original Message-----
From: CLUGH_LA <clugh_la(a)email.msn.com>
To: INPCRP-L(a)rootsweb.com <INPCRP-L(a)rootsweb.com>
Date: Thursday, April 19, 2001 4:45 AM
Subject: [INPCRP] Cemetery Workshop April 28th
>There is still room for registration. Take a look at our programs for
the
>day.
>I'm excited about the line up.
>
>L. A. Clugh
>Tippecanoe County Pioneer Cemeteries Group Workshop
>Registration information and form at:
>http://www.rootsweb.com/~inpcrp/TippecanoeWorkshop.html
>==========================================
>8:00 to 8:15 Registration Coffee and donuts
>
>8:15 to 8:30 Welcome and Introductions: L.A. CLUGH, Coordinator,
Tippecanoe
>Co. Cemetery Preservation Committee
>
>8:30 to 8:45 Help from Township Trustees: MATT KOEHLER, Wea Township
>Trustee
>
>8:45 to 9:15 The new DNR State database: JENNIE RAGEN-DIMIUS
>
>9:15 to 10:15 Call out for local help. Veterans Services: RANDY
FAIRCHILD
>
>10:15 to 10:30 Tippecanoe County Area Plan
>Deed research for locations: MARLENE MATTOX
>
>10:30 to 10:45 Morning Break
>
>10:45 to 11:00 INPCRP Webpage and the Stage Laws: LOIS MAUK
>
>11:00 to 11:30 Identifying boundaries and using maps: JACK BRILES
>
>11:30 to 12:30 Overview of Basic Stone Repair Techniques and site
>maintenance:
>JOHN WALTERS, Fayette County Cemetery Supervisor; Member, National
>Association for Gravestone Studies
>
>12:30 to 1:00 Lunch
>
>1:00 to 3:00 Stone Repair Demonstrations at Spring Grove Cemetery: JOHN
>WALTERS
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>==== INPCRP Mailing List ====
>Blessed are the Elderly, for they remember what we will never know.
>
There is still room for registration. Take a look at our programs for the
day.
I'm excited about the line up.
L. A. Clugh
Tippecanoe County Pioneer Cemeteries Group Workshop
Registration information and form at:
http://www.rootsweb.com/~inpcrp/TippecanoeWorkshop.html
==========================================
8:00 to 8:15 Registration Coffee and donuts
8:15 to 8:30 Welcome and Introductions: L.A. CLUGH, Coordinator, Tippecanoe
Co. Cemetery Preservation Committee
8:30 to 8:45 Help from Township Trustees: MATT KOEHLER, Wea Township
Trustee
8:45 to 9:15 The new DNR State database: JENNIE RAGEN-DIMIUS
9:15 to 10:15 Call out for local help. Veterans Services: RANDY FAIRCHILD
10:15 to 10:30 Tippecanoe County Area Plan
Deed research for locations: MARLENE MATTOX
10:30 to 10:45 Morning Break
10:45 to 11:00 INPCRP Webpage and the Stage Laws: LOIS MAUK
11:00 to 11:30 Identifying boundaries and using maps: JACK BRILES
11:30 to 12:30 Overview of Basic Stone Repair Techniques and site
maintenance:
JOHN WALTERS, Fayette County Cemetery Supervisor; Member, National
Association for Gravestone Studies
12:30 to 1:00 Lunch
1:00 to 3:00 Stone Repair Demonstrations at Spring Grove Cemetery: JOHN
WALTERS
Hi!
Watch out for soccer balls if you visit Oak Hill Cemetery in
Vanderburgh County. 50 acres of unused land from Oak Hill
Cemetery, will be made into a Soccer Complex that will contain
13 fields, more than 600 paved parking spaces, and a main
pavilion with concessions and restrooms.
Oak Hill Cemetery was established in 1853. It is owned and operated
by the city of Evansville and has 67,000 burials including a 600+
Civil War Section.
Officials say they will turn the land back over to the cemetery when
it is needed and the soccer fields moved. I've heard that the land
won't be needed for decades or that it won't be needed for 20 years.
HAHAHAHAHA
Some links to the stories if you're interested.
I hope to have a Vanderburgh County Cemetery Web Page
up in a week or so.
-Chris
Soccer fields on Morgan studied
Friday, November 10, 2000
http://www.courierpress.com/cgi-bin/view.cgi?/200011/10+soccerfields11100...
Soccer complex gets big thumbs up
Thursday, April 12, 2001
http://www.courierpress.com/cgi-bin/view.cgi?/200104/12+soccer041201_spor...
Complex �a winner for everybody�
Friday, April 13, 2001
http://www.courierpress.com/cgi-bin/view.cgi?200104/13/+complex041301_spo...
Very sorry for this duplication everyone, I forgot to include my signature
block which has the url in it!
I previously sent, "Our main page has been updated as well as our April
newsletter being placed online."
--------------
Andrea D. MacDonald "Andi"
andimac(a)oz.net
Washington State Cemetery Association
http://www.rootsweb.com/~wapsgs/
Join our maillist for more information on Washington state cemeteries
subscribe by sending a blank e-mail to:
wacemeteries-subscribe(a)listbot.com
"Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful committed citizens can change
the world. Indeed it's the only thing that ever has." Margaret Mead
The Fayette County Cemetery Commission is having an Open House in
Connersville, IN at 8:00 A.M. on Saturday, May 12, 2001.
Some details are still pending, but several speakers are planned, to be
followed by a Q&A session and a tour of John Walters' facilities and a
demonstration of repair techniques. After lunch, a bus tour of Fayette County
cemeteries in various stages of restoration will take place.
Fayette County is so far ahead of the other 91 counties in cemetery
restoration that the rest of us can only stand in awe of what has been
accomplished there on a shoestring budget with the benefit of a cooperative
effort between the County Commissioners, the County Council and the Township
Trustees. Fayette County's program truly is a ROLE MODEL for the rest of the
state and possibly the rest of the country.
I hope you'll join us in Connersville to congratulate John Walters and Fayette
County on what they have achieved.
Contact for further information: Ed Herrell <CEHerrell(a)mail.com>
Tombstone fragments? We've got whole tombstones (some six foot tall and
1,000 lbs. or better) over the hill in Knox County. Not to mention the
caskets they had coming out of the back of a ravine a few years back.
And, those piles of plastic flowers may be the only visible signs of a
burial grounds to an archeologist in years to come.
Just thought I'd throw that in.
>From: Dale Drake <ddrake(a)iupui.edu>
>Reply-To: INPCRP-L(a)rootsweb.com
>To: INPCRP-L(a)rootsweb.com
>Subject: Re: [INPCRP] Where do the plastic flowers go?
>Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2001 11:39:34 -0500
>
>Thanks, Kyle. I was thinking a similar thought as I read the emails
>bouncing back and forth. We have cemeteries with posted regulations and
>active maintenance, and I'm thrilled that they're doing something.
>(Although actually disposing of the flowers rather than dumping them in
>an unsightly pile that will be there 200 years from now would be
>preferable.) If they're clearing off the old flower arrangements,
>they'e also mowing.
>
>What upsets me are the piles of tombstone fragments we often find on the
>edges of the cemeteries. Or in ravines behind cemetery sites, with no
>stones left on the graves.
>
>Dale Drake
>Morgan Co History & Genealogy Assn Cemetery Committee
>
>
>KidClerk(a)aol.com wrote:
> >
> > As a cemetery board member, I'd like to remind everyone that cemeteries
>have
> > rules regarding the placement of flower arrangements on graves for
>Memorial
> > Day and the rest of the year. Many times, these arrangements are in
>pots
> > that are in the way of groundskeeping activities and are allowed for a
> > specific time. If the person who places them there doesn't remove them
>by a
> > specific date, the cemetery does it for them. The same thing applies to
> > grave blankets in the winter. Also, up here in the flat lands anyway,
>the
> > winters are very harsh and the winds blow these plastic flowers off of
>the
> > grave marker and into the neighboring field. There is no way to tell
>which
> > stone they came from, so they are just discarded. I'm not saying any of
> > these are the case here, but it could explain some of the situation. I
> > caught heck last year because I discarded several plastic arrangements
>that
> > were in our mausoleum. Many were so old that they were filthy and
> > disintegrated upon touching them. There is nothing beautiful about a 30
>year
> > old flower arrangement that should have been taken care of by the family
> > members that left it there.
> >
> > Just wanted to make sure someone represented the "other side of the
>story"
> >
> > Kyle D. Conrad
> >
> > ==== INPCRP Mailing List ====
> > Blessed are the Elderly, for they remember what we will never know.
>
>
>==== INPCRP Mailing List ====
>THIS IS A CEMETERY -----
> "Lives are commemorated - deaths are recorded - families
>are reunited - memories are made tangible - and love is
>undisguised. This is a cemetery.
> "Communities accord respect, families bestow reverence,
>historians seek information and our heritage is thereby enriched.
> "Testimonies of devotion, pride and remembrance are carved
>in stone to pay warm tribute to accomplishments and to the life -
>not the death - of a loved one. The cemetery is homeland for family
>memorials that are a sustaining source of comfort to the living.
> "A cemetery is a history of people - a perpetual record of
>yesterday and sanctuary of peace and quiet today. A cemetery
>exists because every life is worth loving and remembering - always."
> --Author unknown -- Seen at a monument dealer in West Union, IA
>
_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
In a message dated 4/14/01 8:29:50 PM Central Daylight Time,
elasley(a)sigecom.net writes:
> INPCRP-L(a)rootsweb.com
>
Mr. Elasely,
Many years ago an aunt said to look for John Brown, Ripley Twp.,Rush Co In.
Bn.
> about 1813 in Frederick, Co. Md. and died Feb. 1852 at a IOOF cemetery in
> the area. Would you see if what you were quoting from in your message
> about IOOF cemeteries being sold would mention one in the area of Milroy?
> Thanks.
>
Well, at least I hope that we make a difference to someone. I think that we
do. And while it may only be "baby steps", as a result of those small steps
the situation may end up being a little bit better.
In a perfect world these problems would not exist. But the really sad thing
that I've come to realize is that this problem has been around for as long
as there has been cemeteries. And it looks like it's only going to get worse
on a daily basis the way things are going right now. So what do we do about
it? Do we just give up and stop the fight. Not me. We may not win them all.
In fact we may not win many at all. And I don't much like that fact. I'd
love to be able to win them all...or most of them. But if we can win even
one it's worth everything that we have to go through. And to win that one,
we have to be willing to do whatever it takes. Sue is so right, a picture is
worth a thousand words. I've found that the press will jump on these stories
like wildfire, given the chance and if it's presented in the right way to
them. Why? because people read them with a great deal of interest. And
anyone that thinks there is not a great deal of interest in cemetery
preservation issues, please come see me. Last month I had over 108,000
people visit Saving Graves, and this month it looks like it will be over
120,000. That's a lot of people. The press can be our best friend in
fighting to save a cemetery. It's up to us to use the tool.
William(Bill)Spurlock
Saving Graves
http://www.savinggraves.com
William(Bill)Spurlock
Saving Graves
http://www.savinggraves.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Sue Silver [mailto:ssilver1951@jps.net]
Sent: Sunday, April 15, 2001 7:37 PM
To: INPCRP-L(a)rootsweb.com
Subject: Re: [INPCRP] Cemeteries operate on a Pyramid Scheme
Or what about, how did you get so stubborn? That's my family line in a nut
shell. That's why I'm not giving up on the issue of cemeteries. I can
understand why some people are too heartbroken to fight the battles. That's
why there are people like me, Lois Mauk, Bill Spurlock, Sue Noe and others.
(Yes, Jack Briles, you're still including in this list!)
We do make a difference, even if only in baby steps. The press is the best
tool we have. Exposure is what it provides. A picture is still worth a
thousand words...
Sue Silver
CA
----- Original Message -----
From: Stephen Franklin <daniel(a)iglou.com>
To: <INPCRP-L(a)rootsweb.com>
Sent: Sunday, April 15, 2001 3:14 PM
Subject: Re: [INPCRP] Cemeteries operate on a Pyramid Scheme
> Jack,
>
> Jack said, "As far as preserving our old cemeteries, the taxpayers who
don't
> have relatives buried in these sites aren't the least bit interested in
any
> new."
>
> Your words are very meaningful Jack. I agree with everything you said in
> that email.
>
> The main problem, is that most people do not care about the past in
history
> or their families. There ought to be a class in grade schools & above and
> each year getting a little more in detail about you, your families and
their
> part in the past. A lot of folks have a problem with getting the genealogy
> portion for 3 generations in school. They think it is too private, even
one
> of my grandparents was one them. Afraid of what I might find, several of
> her children today are still like that. they sometimes come to me for that
> information on the ancestors and about illinesses and dieseases that run
in
> the family.
>
> Bottom line is if you don't take the time to know the past, you may never
> realize why you do some of things you do . Where did you get that Red
Hair
> from, or those artistic abilities, are there twins or triples, etc in the
> family, etc, etc.
>
> Stephen Franklin
>
>
>
>
> ==== INPCRP Mailing List ====
> Cemetery: (n) A marble orchard not to be taken for granite.
>
>
______________________________
I have found a very good resource here in Columbus. A man by the name of George Pence once lived and died here. During his lifetime (1852-1929) he was Count Auditor, County Surveyor, and many other things but mostly he was a wonderful historian and was one of the founding fathers of our Bartholomew County Historical Society. He wrote articles in local papers about our history and also kept scrapbooks of articles that appeared in them as well. I spent 3 hours at the BCHS library Friday xeroxing everything I found on cemeteries in his books. He was one of the first to start the drive to record tombstones of here.
These are wonderful articles with such titles as "Unmarked Graves of Long Ago" (1908), "DePauw's Bones" (1895) and "Private Grounds Only A Memory" (1908).
The one about Depauw's Bones tells of a grave that was found under a fence being torn out west of the river. A full slab of sandstone lay on top of it 1 foot under ground and it was inscribed:
"In memory of Charles DePauw, who departed this life on the 11th of Oct., 1823, and who was about 26 yars old and died in Columbus, Bertholomew county, Indiana. This stone is presented to the memory of the deceased by his brother, N. B. DePauw."
Here is what an later article by Pence said about it:
"A dozen or more years ago the gravestone of Charles DePauw was plowed out of a fence row which had been marked the old Mauck's ferry state road west of the river on one of the farms of James M. Perry. By investigation it was found that DePauw had been eminent in the initial days of the county - had been elected a general of militia in the brigade embracing Bartholomew county and had also been elected as the first representative for the county in the state Legislature. An examination of the probate records of the county showed that he died intestate in the early twenties. He was a son of Colonel DePauw, one of the valiant French soldiers who had come to America under General Lafayette, and who in time became a resident of Washington county, Indiana. Considerable local newspaper mention was made of the discovery of the stone and it resulted, through the agency and friendship to the DePauw family of Joseph I. Irwin, that the bones of the once prominent though then forgotte!
n man of Bartholomew county were disinterred and removed by the DePauw family to Salem, Ind., for reinterment."
I would love to follow up on this stone. Does anyone have any info on it's condition today?
Cris
I've been away from home since early Sunday morning. Among the several INPCRP
messages in my Inbox tonight was an UNSUBSCRIBE request from Jack Briles. He
is no longer receiving copies of messages posted to the INPCRP group.
I have not talked to Jack this weekend, but I know how discouraged and
disheartened he has been about how portable and disposable our predecessors'
burial sites have become. He has mentioned a number of times recently that he
was going to just give up. I'm afraid that's what's happened.
I will try to talk to Jack this week and see if I can persuade him to rejoin
us, but I'm not overly optimistic, at least at present.
Lois