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Hi Jack,
We had a shopping center planned on acreage around a 1/2 acre cemetery. The
county wouldn't give them any guidance (claimed it wasn't a county-owned
public cemetery - another long story in California....), so the developer
was going to design their parking area around it. By the time we got to
them we said NO, don't put parking spaces that close and do you know where
all the burials are?
Bottom line, the developer paid for GPR for two acres around the cemetery
(which wasn't fenced), re-designed their parking area so that there would be
park-like land around the cemetery (which they were going to commit to
ornamental iron fencing all the way around), and committed to erecting a
granite and bronze monument in front. The parking lot would wrap around a
2.5 acre area they set aside for that park-like atmosphere. It was the
FIRST and ONLY time a developer had gone the extra mile to help preserve
ANYTHING historic in our county.
At public meetings we acknowledged their efforts and made statements that
would encourage others to behave the same way. The project is stalled since
our general plan was thrown out in court two years ago, but if it ever comes
back to life, they are committed to the "mitigation." It was a WIN-WIN for
the developer and the cemetery. (By the way, AFTER we began negotiations
with the developer, the County stepped in and said it owned the
cemetery...go figure...)
I love you, Jack. Who says you're not an activist??
Best always,
Sue Silver
El Dorado County Pioneer Cemeteries Commission
California
----- Original Message -----
From: <Jb502000(a)aol.com>
To: <INPCRP-L(a)rootsweb.com>
Sent: Sunday, February 25, 2001 3:59 PM
Subject: [INPCRP] Re: This is For Ripley's Belive it or Not
> In a message dated 2/23/01 9:19:40 PM US Eastern Standard Time, Jb502000
> writes:
>
> << Subj: This is For Ripley's Belive it or Not
> Date: 2/23/01 9:19:40 PM US Eastern Standard Time
> From: Jb502000
> To: INPCRP-L(a)rootsweb.com
>
> This is Long, but all to true for our County; If you like you may Delete;
> If you live in Indiana I'll bet you cant top this. Today I went to the
Floyd
> County Assessors office, the Recorders, and the County Surveyors office
> Trying to gather Information on the location of "Lost" Burial Sites, or
> Cemeteries. I lucked out and found one "Missing" since 1953. I'm glad I
did
> find it. It helped me through the day.Because earlier as I was coming out
of
> the Co. Surveyors office, the New Albany Twp. Trustee across the hall
called
> me in and said the cemetery on Charlestown Rd. where the Dept. Store will
be,
> is going I guess. I said it's already gone. He said, no, the other Dept.
> store going in wants to get me to let them put a road thru Slate Run
> cemetery, I'm not talking about the Smith, I know it's already gone. I
almost
> fainted. I said Tom, you can't give permission for anything but cleanup
and
> repair. They knew that cemetery was there when they bought the ground. Let
> em' redesign the Parking lot. He asked what he could do. I said, you
can't
> give that kind of permission. I had to tell him I honestly don't know.
Except
> don't get involved, call someone, anyone.
>
> To make matters worse, I spent 4 hours at home yesterday waiting
for
> a call from my contact in the State Health Dept. And a return of my calls
to
> the DHPA, trying to find out about the up coming 2 cemeteries planned to
be
> moved in Floyd Co. I got no returns. So I don't know what to do. Today I
> called my contact in the State Health Dept. and was advised that I would
hear
> from their attorney, no more information from this person would be
> forthcoming. End of conversation. I only wanted to talk Thursday about
Burial
> Transit Permits. (I left that message on the Voice Mail) I had been told
by
> my contact, one of those and a Court order and the Burial site could be
> moved. I obtained a copy of one. They are only for a Relative to sign, for
a
> Funeral home to pick up and Transport the Remains of a recently deceased
> person, ( No Funeral Home was involved in moving the Smith) cause of
Death,
> age, Etc., Etc., and Signed by the County Health Officer. The Transit
Permits
> do not mention anywhere about moving a Cemetery (Disinterment or
> Reinternment) All I wanted to do was point this out, but, no more
> conversation. Period. I will hear from their Attorney. He Is pretty busy,
but
> he will call me? So then I tried to reach an Individual at the DHPA, but
> again, no return call.
>
> Also this morning I tried again. Not available. I will leave No
more
> messages on voice mail, I don't get an answer. Now the problem has been
> confounded by the latest revelation that Floyd County, the second or third
> smallest county in Indiana is going to loose 4 Cemeteries this year that I
> now know of, and I can't do anything about it. Out of the 92 counties in
> Indiana, if you live in one and you can top this, or even match this,
PLEASE
> Get on the List and let me know. I can't believe this is happening. I have
> worked outside in woods and fields for the last 2 months recording
"Forgotten
> Cemeteries" to give to the DNR data base, and I have found two not
previously
> listed. One is an African American with the oldest ever resident of Floyd
> Co. ( 107 at her death May 9, 1975 ) buried there. I add 2, and Now we
stand
> to lose a total of 4 and I can't get any help.
>
> If any State Official or Employee can help, send an E-Mail to me,
I
> will keep it strictly confidential if you can help with the Situation we
have
> here. If I can't get a response by Monday, Tuesday I am calling all four
TV
> Stations across the Ohio River in Louisville, the Courier-Journal
Newspaper,
> and The New Albany Tribune. I believe I can make a good human interest
story
> out of this. I'm not an activist, but if this is what it takes to get the
> story out, and get someone to try to stop the wholesale destruction of our
> Burial Sites in Floyd County, then so be it. The Louisville TV stations
like
> good stories out of Southern Indiana. What Indianapolis does not
understand,
> is that Floyd County is about 500 to 600 feet above the Smog of the Ohio
> Valley. Also the winds keep any Smog from settling at the higher levels.
So
> we are small, and everyone in the Louisville area want's to move up in the
> high country. Guess what, the Pioneers liked it up there to, and chose
> beautiful Sites. Those Sites are now Prime Building locations. If anyone
has
> an Idea, I'll be more than glad to listen. Down but not out, in Floyd
> County,
>
> PS, I received an E-Mail response From the Center for Disease Control in
> Atlanta, and the only thing to worry about in moving Human remains is
> Tetanus, and that is in the Soil. Received From; William Atkinson, MD,
MPH,
> Of Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, Atlanta, Georgia. I have
> received 2 or 3 E-Mails concerning worry about Diseases from the earth
> (Digging, Probing) in Cemeteries, The Center was quick to respond. (1 day)
> Jack E. Briles Sr.
> jb502000(a)aol.com
> (812) 282-6585 >>
>
>
> ==== INPCRP Mailing List ====
> Cemetery: (n) A marble orchard not to be taken for granite.
>
>
In a message dated 2/23/01 9:19:40 PM US Eastern Standard Time, Jb502000
writes:
<< Subj: This is For Ripley's Belive it or Not
Date: 2/23/01 9:19:40 PM US Eastern Standard Time
From: Jb502000
To: INPCRP-L(a)rootsweb.com
This is Long, but all to true for our County; If you like you may Delete;
If you live in Indiana I'll bet you cant top this. Today I went to the Floyd
County Assessors office, the Recorders, and the County Surveyors office
Trying to gather Information on the location of "Lost" Burial Sites, or
Cemeteries. I lucked out and found one "Missing" since 1953. I'm glad I did
find it. It helped me through the day.Because earlier as I was coming out of
the Co. Surveyors office, the New Albany Twp. Trustee across the hall called
me in and said the cemetery on Charlestown Rd. where the Dept. Store will be,
is going I guess. I said it's already gone. He said, no, the other Dept.
store going in wants to get me to let them put a road thru Slate Run
cemetery, I'm not talking about the Smith, I know it's already gone. I almost
fainted. I said Tom, you can't give permission for anything but cleanup and
repair. They knew that cemetery was there when they bought the ground. Let
em' redesign the Parking lot. He asked what he could do. I said, you can't
give that kind of permission. I had to tell him I honestly don't know. Except
don't get involved, call someone, anyone.
To make matters worse, I spent 4 hours at home yesterday waiting for
a call from my contact in the State Health Dept. And a return of my calls to
the DHPA, trying to find out about the up coming 2 cemeteries planned to be
moved in Floyd Co. I got no returns. So I don't know what to do. Today I
called my contact in the State Health Dept. and was advised that I would hear
from their attorney, no more information from this person would be
forthcoming. End of conversation. I only wanted to talk Thursday about Burial
Transit Permits. (I left that message on the Voice Mail) I had been told by
my contact, one of those and a Court order and the Burial site could be
moved. I obtained a copy of one. They are only for a Relative to sign, for a
Funeral home to pick up and Transport the Remains of a recently deceased
person, ( No Funeral Home was involved in moving the Smith) cause of Death,
age, Etc., Etc., and Signed by the County Health Officer. The Transit Permits
do not mention anywhere about moving a Cemetery (Disinterment or
Reinternment) All I wanted to do was point this out, but, no more
conversation. Period. I will hear from their Attorney. He Is pretty busy, but
he will call me? So then I tried to reach an Individual at the DHPA, but
again, no return call.
Also this morning I tried again. Not available. I will leave No more
messages on voice mail, I don't get an answer. Now the problem has been
confounded by the latest revelation that Floyd County, the second or third
smallest county in Indiana is going to loose 4 Cemeteries this year that I
now know of, and I can't do anything about it. Out of the 92 counties in
Indiana, if you live in one and you can top this, or even match this, PLEASE
Get on the List and let me know. I can't believe this is happening. I have
worked outside in woods and fields for the last 2 months recording "Forgotten
Cemeteries" to give to the DNR data base, and I have found two not previously
listed. One is an African American with the oldest ever resident of Floyd
Co. ( 107 at her death May 9, 1975 ) buried there. I add 2, and Now we stand
to lose a total of 4 and I can't get any help.
If any State Official or Employee can help, send an E-Mail to me, I
will keep it strictly confidential if you can help with the Situation we have
here. If I can't get a response by Monday, Tuesday I am calling all four TV
Stations across the Ohio River in Louisville, the Courier-Journal Newspaper,
and The New Albany Tribune. I believe I can make a good human interest story
out of this. I'm not an activist, but if this is what it takes to get the
story out, and get someone to try to stop the wholesale destruction of our
Burial Sites in Floyd County, then so be it. The Louisville TV stations like
good stories out of Southern Indiana. What Indianapolis does not understand,
is that Floyd County is about 500 to 600 feet above the Smog of the Ohio
Valley. Also the winds keep any Smog from settling at the higher levels. So
we are small, and everyone in the Louisville area want's to move up in the
high country. Guess what, the Pioneers liked it up there to, and chose
beautiful Sites. Those Sites are now Prime Building locations. If anyone has
an Idea, I'll be more than glad to listen. Down but not out, in Floyd
County,
PS, I received an E-Mail response From the Center for Disease Control in
Atlanta, and the only thing to worry about in moving Human remains is
Tetanus, and that is in the Soil. Received From; William Atkinson, MD, MPH,
Of Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, Atlanta, Georgia. I have
received 2 or 3 E-Mails concerning worry about Diseases from the earth
(Digging, Probing) in Cemeteries, The Center was quick to respond. (1 day)
Jack E. Briles Sr.
jb502000(a)aol.com
(812) 282-6585 >>
This is Long, but all to true for our County; If you like you may Delete;
If you live in Indiana I'll bet you cant top this. Today I went to the Floyd
County Assessors office, the Recorders, and the County Surveyors office
Trying to gather Information on the location of "Lost" Burial Sites, or
Cemeteries. I lucked out and found one "Missing" since 1953. I'm glad I did
find it. It helped me through the day.Because earlier as I was coming out of
the Co. Surveyors office, the New Albany Twp. Trustee across the hall called
me in and said the cemetery on Charlestown Rd. where the Dept. Store will be,
is going I guess. I said it's already gone. He said, no, the other Dept.
store going in wants to get me to let them put a road thru Slate Run
cemetery, I'm not talking about the Smith, I know it's already gone. I almost
fainted. I said Tom, you can't give permission for anything but cleanup and
repair. They knew that cemetery was there when they bought the ground. Let
em' redisign the Parking lot.He asked what he could do. I said, you can't
give that kind of permission. I had to tell him I honestly don't know. Except
don't get involved, call someone, anyone.
To make matters worse, I spent 4 hours at home yesterday waiting for a
call from my contact in the State Health Dept. And a return of my calls to
the DHPA, trying to find out about the up coming 2 cemeteries planned to be
moved in Floyd Co. I got no returns. So I don't know what to do. Today I
called my contact in the State Health Dept. and was advised that I would hear
from their attorney, no more information from this person would be
forthcoming. End of conversation. I only wanted to talk Thursday about Burial
Transit Permits. (I left that message on the Voice Mail) I had been told by
my contact, one of those and a Court order and the Burial site could be
moved. I obtained a copy of one. They are only for a Relative to sign, for a
Funeral home to pick up and Transport the Remains of a recently deceased
person, ( No Funeral Home was involved in moving the Smith) cause of Death,
age, Etc., Etc., and Signed by the County Health Officer. The Transit Permits
do not mention anywhere about moving a Cemetery (Disinterment or
Reinternment) All I wanted to do was point this out, but, no more
conversation. Period. I will hear from their Attorney. He Is pretty busy, but
he will call me? So then I tried to reach an Individual at the DHPA, but
again, no return call.
Also this morning I tried again. Not available. I will leave No more
messages on voice mail, I don't get an answer. Now the problem has been
confounded by the latest revelation that Floyd County, the second or third
smallest county in Indiana is going to loose 4 Cemeteries this year that I
now know of, and I can't do anything about it. Out of the 92 counties in
Indiana, if you live in one and you can top this, or even match this, PLEASE
Get on the List and let me know. I can't believe this is happening. I have
worked outside in woods and fields for the last 2 months recording "Forgotten
Cemeteries" to give to the DNR data base, and I have found two not previously
listed. One is an African American with the oldest ever resident of Floyd
Co. ( 107 at her death May 9, 1975 ) buried there. I add 2, and Now we stand
to lose a total of 4 and I can't get any help.
If any State Official or Employee can help, send an E-Mail to me, I
will keep it strictly confidential if you can help with the Situation we have
here. If I can't get a response by Monday, Tuesday I am calling all four TV
Stations across the Ohio River in Louisville, the Courier-Journal Newspaper,
and The New Albany Tribune. I believe I can make a good human interest story
out of this. I'm not an activist, but if this is what it takes to get the
story out, and get someone to try to stop the wholesale destruction of our
Burial Sites in Floyd County, then so be it. The Louisville TV stations like
good stories out of Southern Indiana. What Indianapolis does not understand,
is that Floyd County is about 500 to 600 feet above the Smog of the Ohio
Valley. Also the winds keep any Smog from settling at the higher levels. So
we are small, and everyone in the Louisville area want's to move up in the
high country. Guess what, the Pioneers liked it up there to, and chose
beautiful Sites. Those Sites are now Prime Building locations. If anyone has
an Idea, I'll be more than glad to listen. Down but not out, in Floyd
County,
PS, I received an E-Mail response From the Center for Disease Control in
Atlanta, and the only thing to worry about in moving Human remains is
Tetanus, and that is in the Soil. Received From; William Atkinson, MD, MPH,
Of Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, Atlanta, Georgia. I have
received 2 or 3 E-Mails concerning worry about Diseases from the earth
(Digging, Probing) in Cemeteries, The Center was quick to respond. (1 day)
Jack E. Briles Sr.
jb502000(a)aol.com
(812) 282-6585
Hello,
Dowsing has been much discussed on various Rootsweb lists and mostly
debunked as myth. I would not recommend it's use for attempting to locate
the boundaries. Look for old maps, aerial photos, survey records, or
descriptions in deeds. A lot of probing may also help to determine the
boundaries. Below is an article on dowsing I had saved:
Many people are not aware of the many Scientific studies and experiments,
all of which have dis-proven dowsing capabilities. In one study 1986,
University Physicists in Munich Germany spent $250,000.00 testing the
dowsing theory. The results provide the most convincing disproof
imaginable that dowsers can do what they claim. In fact, the results
showed that the dowsers would have done better had they left their rods at
home and guessed in the experiments. For the complete story, see:
http://www.csicop.org/si/9901/dowsing.html
Ernie Lasley, Coordinator
Gibson County PCRP
PCRP page: http://members.sigecom.net/elasley/inpcrp/index.html
Cemetery page: http://www.usroots.com/~jmurphy/gibson/gibcem/gibcem.htm
At 11:59 PM 2/21/01, you wrote:
>Hello. I am wondering if anyone of you do dowsing for graves or know of
>someone who does. I am in the process of having an old pioneer cemetery
>cleaned up. There is supposed to be about 45 people buried there. There
>are not enough headstones to account for that many people. We will be
>erecting a fence around the cemetery. I want to make sure everyone buried
>in the cemetery is included in the boundaries.
>I heard of remote sensing, but that is way too expensive. The township and
>county can not afford that amount of money.
>I know dowsing is controversial. But I don't know what else to do. Can
>someone help me?
>Angela Tielking
>tielking(a)knightstown.net
>
>
>==== INPCRP Mailing List ====
>"Show me your cemeteries, and I will tell you what kind of people you have."
> Benjamin Franklin (1706 - 1790)
Angela, the only ones I have heard of who have been successful is a group
called the Tri State Dowsers at I belive, Evansville, Someone in that area,
used them on a cemetery and claimed it worked. I don't know how to contact
them, maybe someone in the Evansville area could tell you. Good Luck,
Jack Briles
jb502000(a)aol.com
Hello. I am wondering if anyone of you do dowsing for graves or know of someone who does. I am in the process of having an old pioneer cemetery cleaned up. There is supposed to be about 45 people buried there. There are not enough headstones to account for that many people. We will be erecting a fence around the cemetery. I want to make sure everyone buried in the cemetery is included in the boundaries.
I heard of remote sensing, but that is way too expensive. The township and county can not afford that amount of money.
I know dowsing is controversial. But I don't know what else to do. Can someone help me?
Angela Tielking
tielking(a)knightstown.net
Thanks to Ken Fox for alerting us to a story in this morning's Terre Haute
Tribune-Star newspaper about the DNR's new cemetery registry project.
The URL for the story is quite long and you will have to paste it together in
your browser window, but it is:
http://www.tribstar.com/clients/tribstar/single_article_search/single_art...
search.qry?function=search&story_id=27742&type=Top%20Story
Alternatively, you can go to the INPCRP "In the News" page at:
http://www.rootsweb.com/~inpcrp/inthenews.html
and link to the story from there.
Thanks, Ken.
Lois
In a message dated 2/18/01 7:15:06 PM US Eastern Standard Time, jrlk(a)abcs.com
writes:
<< Subj: [INPCRP] Warner Cemetery
Date: 2/18/01 7:15:06 PM US Eastern Standard Time
From: jrlk(a)abcs.com (Jim Wilcox)
Reply-to: INPCRP-L(a)rootsweb.com
To: INPCRP-L(a)rootsweb.com >>
Jim, watch the weather, bushes can sprout pretty good size leaves in a few
days, then it's twice as hard to clear, The sooner the better, but I belive
you know that. But as soon as you can, get in with Pruners and get all that
can be cut with them out.It's twice as hard after even small leaves pop out.
Good Luck, I would help if I had time, Jack Briles
Jack;
I know the frustration of not wanting a cemetery moved and the fight that
is involved but you must never give up. I managed to, along with the help of
others putting in tons of work to stop one of the largest coal mines around
from getting an order to disinter. Much to our suprise. You have got to
take a breath and know that major steps can be taken they are just at little
paces and there is much more work to be done. Do not give up the effort when
we have started to move forward. There is much more work for you to do. We
must stand together and be heard. You can make a diffrence. Things do
change but only if we make them change.
Jackie Boles
-----Original Message-----
From: Jb502000(a)aol.com <Jb502000(a)aol.com>
To: INPCRP-L(a)rootsweb.com <INPCRP-L(a)rootsweb.com>
Date: Thursday, February 15, 2001 9:47 PM
Subject: [INPCRP] Moving Cemeteries
>I give up trying to save Pioneer Cemeteries as of today 4:30 PM, Feb. 15,
>2001. I have made repeated calls to Indianapolis about how, or who is
>supposed to be notified according to the Laws on the Books. I mistakenly
>thought IC 23-14-57 was some type of protection. I thought it would cover
the
>proper and dignified movement of a Cemetery that would be done also in a
>legal way. Today at 3:50 PM I was told by the State Health Department, that
>the word from their Legal Advisors says "in effect;" You can forget about
>23-14-57-1, except for the line following the words Sec.1. "The Remains,
>either cremated or uncremated, of a deceased human shall not be removed
from
>a cemetery without" You can skip the rest of the section and go to "or a
>Court order". I was told the Local County Health Officer can Sign a "
Burial
>Transport Permit" and the person or Company's Attorney can then take this
to
>the Local Superior Court, or Circuit Court and get a Court Order to move
the
>Cemetery. The State doesn't have to be involved. It doesn't even have to be
>notified. It's apparently handled Locally in what ever County you live in.
>They Sign, And it's Baby Bye Bye. Why section 1 was filled up with so many
>unnecessary words I don't know. And if you are under the impression that if
a
>Veteran is buried somewhere, that makes a difference, forget it. No one
>supervised the removal of the Smith Cemetery in Floyd Co., except the
people
>moving the Cemetery. Some Protection.
>
>I will remain on the List, but I am going silent, I have worried to much
>about common dignity and respect. Now someone else can worry about it. If
>things Change, I might become active again, but I don't see this happening.
>
> Good Luck to all of the Dedicated Volunteers, if you are on the INPCRP
List
>or not, keep up your good work, you all have, and will continue to make the
>difference that the Laws can't make. Laws are easy to write, but they
are
>written with 2 definitions, that makes everyone feel good. Personally I
can't
>keep fighting a Battle that I cannot win.
>
> Goodbye, and Good Luck,
> Jack E. Briles Sr.
> jb502000(a)aol.com
> PO Box 444
> New Albany, In.
>47151-0444
>
>
>
>
>==== INPCRP Mailing List ====
>To UNSUBSCRIBE, send message consisting only of
>"UNSUBSCRIBE" to INPCRP-L-REQUEST(a)rootsweb.com
> or to INPCRP-D-REQUEST(a)rootsweb.com (for DIGEST version)
>
Anybody in the Indy area have any info on this site?
----- Original Message -----
From: KMoore8886(a)aol.com
To: LoisMauk(a)usa.net
Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2001 6:36 PM
Subject: what happened to our cemetery???
i was wondering if you have any info on a family cemetery that was at 7034
brookeville road in marion co. indianapolis indiana it was located at the
rear of the old farm house that once sat there. it was the greer family
cemetery.
it was near the b&o R.R tracks about 50 to 100 feet south of the RR tracks
on that property. the farm has been torn down and a large factory now stands
on all of that property . where were the graves moved to ??????
thank you , kitty moore
February 5, 2001
Lytle cemetery reforms get House panel approval
INDIANAPOLIS -- Members of an Indiana House committee have approved
legislation authored by State Rep. Markt Lytle (D-Madison) that continues the
lawmaker's efforts to reform Indiana cemetery laws.
House Bill 1758, passed today in the House Agriculture, Natural Resources and
Rural Development Committee, represents the third step in a process that was
started by Lytle during the 1999 session of the Indiana General Assembly.
"Our ultimate goal is to have an accurate record of all the cemeteries and
burial grounds in the state, then assure that those grounds are protected from
harm, either from criminal behavior or any sort of development that might be
encroaching on this property," Lytle said.
This year's proposal contains protections for people who have cemeteries
located on their property, and continues refining the duties of the Indiana
Department of Natural Resources (DNR) in recording cemeteries and burial
grounds.
"If you have some sort of cemetery on land that you own, I do not believe you
should have to pay the same amount of property taxes that you would on the
rest of your land, so House Bill 1758 sets up a $1 per acre assessment for
private burial land," Lytle said.
In addition, the legislation requires developers to follow specific procedures
in work on nearby properties. Changes authored by Lytle that became law last
year set up a 100-foot buffer zone around a recorded cemetery or burial
ground, with anyone wishing to disturb property within that zone required to
submit a development plan for DNR approval.
"We want to protect the families that have people buried in these cemeteries,
and we want to make sure that developers are aware of any potential problems
that might come up if they try to make improvements on land that is close to
burial grounds," Lytle said.
Finally, burial grounds are added to the types of property that are protected
under the state's cemetery mischief laws.
"Whenever we consider issues that deal with protecting the memories of our
loved ones, we want to make sure that we do everything in a proper way, and
House Bill 1758 continues the process of forming a comprehensive state policy
on preserving cemeteries," Lytle concluded.
On 2/15/2000, HB 1758 passed the House 92:2 and was referred to the Senate.
The two Nay votes were by Rep. C. Brown and V. Smith.
Before passage, Rep. Lytle filed an amendment to House Bill 1758, to read as
follows:
Page 3, between lines 31 and 32, begin a new paragraph and insert:
"Sec. 15. The owner of land that is classified under this chapter as cemetery
land must allow family members and descendants of persons buried in the
cemetery to have at least one (1) day each year to gain access to and visit
the cemetery. The date of the visit to the cemetery must be agreed upon
between the owner and the family members and descendants of persons buried in
the cemetery."
Bill History to date:
01/17/2001 Authored by Representative Lytle
01/17/2001 First reading: referred to Agriculture and Natural Resources and
Rural Development
01/31/2001 Representative Welch added as coauthor
02/08/2001 Committee report: amend do pass, adopted
02/14/2001 Second reading: amended, ordered engrossed
02/15/2001 Third reading: passed; Roll Call 125: Yeas 92 and Nays 2
02/15/2001 Referred to the Senate
02/15/2001 First Senate Sponsor: Senator R. Meeks
02/15/2001 Second Senate Sponsor: Senator Lewis
02/19/2001 Representative Bottorff added as coauthor
House Bill 1960 has apparently had no activity since 01/17/2001 when it had
its first reading and was referred to the House Ways and Means Committee.
Lois
I have a new induction for the hall of shame, just west of Bloomingdale,
Indiana in Parke county is a very old cemetery known locally as the Warner
cemetery. We walked it today and took photo's planning for an early spring
clean up and restoration. The landowner at this point is very cooperative
and is welcoming the opportunity to clean it up.
Jim Wilcox
Parke County
In a message dated 2/11/01 8:58:13 AM US Eastern Standard Time,
scline(a)hoosierweb.org writes:
<< The Indiana Department of Transportation is now involving the 92
county historians in the preliminary review of proposed highway
improvements within the state of Indiana. I am reviewing a project
presently involving new alignment, several buildings proposed to be
removed, including historic structures. A church and cemetery is also
involved in the section of highway to be improved. The preliminary
plans are such that the existing alignment will be moved away from the
church and cemetery. I have advised INDOT that their construction
limits must be a minimum of 100 feet from the nearest grave and that
they must apply for a permit if the construction limits are less than
100 feet from the nearest grave. I also advised them I couldn't make
a judgment concerning archaeology sites, cemeteries, and historic
buildings until I saw a preliminary plan of the construction area. I
have now been provided with a set of aerial photos showing the present
proposed alignment of the highway and the proposed right of way to be
acquired for the construction. The photos also include the various
buildings, church, cemetery, etc. INDOT is at least coordinating
proposed construction with the local people.
Sam Cline >>
Sam, I have read your E-mail 3 times and have concluded that: What if INDOT
moves enough of the cemetery so that the remainder is not within the 100' no
disturbance "Zone." All that has to be done, according to the State Health
Dept. is for the County Health Officer to sign a Burial Transport Permit for
any removal, then a Court order is issued and the movement is Legal. Then
construction can move forward. Have you considered this. Remember Rights of
Eminent Domain can prevail in these type cases. Look at what happened at the
cemetery in the way of an airport approach in St. Louis. Guess who was
adjusted to accommodate the Airport approach. The Past in cases like this
mean nothing. The safety and concerns of the present and the future are the
primary concern. Anything else is secondary. But God above knows, I hope you
are right. In the case of the Smith cemetery in Floyd Co. the 100' did not
apply, after it was moved. Of course if it had remained, then construction
would have had to maintain it's distance, I guess. I haven't seen a test case
yet so I'm not sure what would happen. Suppose someone, in a secluded area
goes ahead and Builds or disturbs the Earth within the 100.' I don't think
you can undo the disturbance after the fact. If no one has to be notified,
then Like the Smith cemetery, it's done. I wanted to Video tape the removal,
but it was removed a week before it was supposed to be according to my
source. What do you do? Make them put it back, I don't think so. I sincerely
hope you have better Luck, and they mean what they say.
Jack Briles
jb502000(a)aol.com
In a message dated 2/16/01 8:06:31 AM US Eastern Standard Time,
JRdinius(a)dnr.state.in.us writes:
<< "Developing a statewide registry of historic cemeteries and family
> burial plots will help communities protect the final resting places of our
> ancestors," said Larry Macklin, the state's historic preservation officer
> and director of the Indiana Department of Natural Resources. >>
Due to the announcement by the DNR I have decided to make a statement to the
List (Including state employes), for whatever it's worth,
Mr. Macklin makes the above statement, but members of our communities in
Floyd Co. have technically destroyed one cemetery this year, the Smith, for a
Large department store, the next, the Hessing, is soon to go because the
Developer can't incorporate it into the subdivision like some around the
state have, such as the Fowler/Mundy in Perry Twp. In Marion Co. I understand
the small Newman, south of New Albany, soon to be "Moved" by Silver creek
sand and gravel will have to go. I don't protest the moving, I realize Rights
of Eminent Domain prevail. All I ask is the Movements be made by people
familiar with the movement of Human remains, and not digging Foundations. I
do believe there is a difference.
After 48 years in construction, I know the people doing the moving need
ADVICE. The Smith was moved like a Construction Job. And since Native
Americans are Reburied according to their customs, which I absolutely agree
with, then why can't Christians be allowed the simple grave side ceremony
that I feel they are entitled to. This might cost $50 dollars or less for a
Minister, and take an additional 30 minutes. The Tombstones moved were not
even set in the same manner as the rest of the huge city cemetery. they were
set close together, and 2 were set with no base, which I think is not in
accordance with proper Restoration or Preservation procedures. Aren't the
Past lifetimes of these people worth at Least that much? If they are not
Christians then allow them the rights to a burial ceremony according to their
religion, or customs. If this isn't done, then what are we trying to save
them for. If we want to really save them, pass a law requiring Developers to
Put a nice fence around, and Landscape them.
Don't save a cemetery for a few years, just so our children or Grandchildren
can see them ripped up and moved. The people getting ready to move these in
Floyd CO. aren't going to register them as Historic Sites so they can be
saved. If the State of Indiana is sincere in what they say, then let's have
some Disinterring and Reinterment guidelines that are respectful of the
Dead. And some responsible person on site. Even a DNR Officer knows when
every effort is being made to recover the Remains in a decent manner, and not
just box up one or two bones and a box of dirt. But first, they would have to
know when and where the move was going to take place. This would not be an
undue burden on the officer, this would normally only happen once or twice a
year. Now I suggest we wait and see what they can put together with the Laws
we now Have. I will reserve judgment and see what develops. Let's hope with
this announcement we see some positive movement in the right direction
quickly. We don't have much time to wait!
Jack Briles
PO Box 444
New Albany, In. 47151-0444
(812) 282-6585
And as a follow up to Natalie's note, as a member of the historical society,
I sent a letter to the Pike Co. judge involved and inquired as to whom was
responsible for recording the whereabouts of these "moved remains" for
historical purposes, so that when their families might arrive in the area to
visit said grave sites, was informed this was not the business of the
court.... .....Ruth Pride Wheatland, Knox. Co.
Jack,
Just know that one day things WILL be different. Keep thinking about
the things that were said could never be done. WE WILL PREVAIL.....
Some how we must find a way to keep up the fight.
I know beyond a shadow of a doubt that our cause is just and God is on
our side. One day we will be able to meet those that are resting in the
graves we are fighting for. I also KNOW that they will be grateful for even
the smallest amount of progress we make. The rewards are always as great
as the fight to get there. Just think how great the rewards will be from
this fight.....
As someone else told you....back off take a deep breath and go out to a
quiet cemetery. Sit down and rest your self and your soul.....Let your
self be filled from the sprits that are watching over those graves.....they
need us...and we need them....
I have shed many tears about the loss of our treasured old
cemeteries.....many times it seems that they like all of us are just here
for a time and then go to another sphere.....but for now we are the only
hope and if we give up the fight then who has won?
> DNR NEWS
>
> Indiana Department of Natural Resources
> 402 W. Washington St. W255 B
> Indianapolis, IN 46204-2748
>
> For immediate release: Feb. 15, 2001
>
> Cemetery registry will record Hoosiers' final resting places
> DNR coordination project seeks volunteer and community involvement
>
> A new state registry and database to document historic cemeteries
> and prehistoric burial sites is being created by the Indiana Department of
> Natural Resources.
>
> The General Assembly last year authorized the DNR to create a
> central list of cemeteries and prehistoric burials. Many historic burials
> in family plots, crossroads communities and pioneer villages were
> abandoned over the years and they never have been recorded.
>
> "Developing a statewide registry of historic cemeteries and family
> burial plots will help communities protect the final resting places of our
> ancestors," said Larry Macklin, the state's historic preservation officer
> and director of the Indiana Department of Natural Resources.
>
> "Frequently these locations are not recorded, or the information is
> not readily available, so disturbance and disruption has occurred without
> planning and without community involvement," Macklin said.
>
> Much information has been gathered already by local organizations,
> including preservation and genealogical societies, ethnic organizations,
> history clubs, religious organizations and individuals, according to
> Macklin.
>
> "The formats the groups and individuals follow varies in
> completeness, but has extraordinary value for accurate research, and the
> future of a database that can be accessed by all citizens," said Jon C.
> Smith, deputy state historic preservation officer. Smith also is director
> of the DNR's Division of Historic Preservation and Archaeology.
>
> "We are bringing together information from all the groups who
> already have gathered information locally. This will ensure that the
> information concerning these places is not lost and that we no longer have
> forgotten cemeteries," Smith said.
>
> The DNR's responsibilities, according t the law authored by Rep.
> Markt Lytle, D-Madison, include design of an electronic database and
> working with and coordinating local historical societies, museums,
> genealogical groups, archaeologists and private individuals to identify
> all cemeteries and burial grounds in the state.
>
> The database will allow the DNR to provide public awareness programs
> about the problem of lost data and lost heritage. "The database also will
> provide preservationists with an important tool they can use to protect
> cemeteries in their communities," said Macklin.
>
> The database will gather information on all cemeteries, currently
> used or long forgotten, to preserve the data and make it useful to people
> who want to know about the past.
>
> Smith said the database director is Jeannie Regan-Dinius, who
> previously was a special project coordinator in the Division of Historic
> Preservation and Archaeology.
>
> Regan-Dinius developed public outreach programs and assisted
> volunteers around the state on the Underground Railroad initiative known
> as the Indiana Freedom Trails.
>
> Before working for the DNR, Regan-Dinius was executive director of
> Historic Forks of the Wabash in Huntington.
>
> Progress on the database has been underway for several months, with
> DNR staff working to establish a paper database. The electronic database
> will rely on a survey of community-based interest groups that have been
> gathering information on cemeteries.
>
> The DNR will recruit volunteers to assist with the registry. The
> number of cemeteries is unknown, but are believed to be in the thousands
> and include burials, unmarked cemeteries, and known cemeteries.
>
> Historical societies and genealogical groups have done a lot of work
> at the local level on known cemeteries, and archaeologists regularly
> catalog prehistoric burials, but only one percent of the state's known
> archaeological sites have been surveyed, according to Smith.
>
> Smith sees the database as one of several vital components the DNR
> uses to help preserve cultural and historical resources.
>
> "The National Park Service has nearly doubled funding for Indiana's
> historic preservation projects this year because the DNR Division of
> Historic Preservation and Archaeology is managing one of the nation's most
> successful preservation grant programs," Macklin said.
>
> This year more than $825,000 in state grants will help fund about 35
> preservation and research projects managed by not-for-profit
> organizations, universities and local governmental agencies. Last year, 19
> historic preservation projects received grants totaling $440,000.
>
> Since 1974, Indiana has awarded more than $12 million from historic
> preservation funds provided by the National Park Service.
>
> The National Park Service increased support of states with high
> performance in protecting historic sites and recording the history of
> ancestors.
>
> People with information regarding cemeteries or burial grounds in
> Indiana, are encouraged to contact Jeannie Regan-Dinius at the DNR
> Division of Historic Preservation and Archaeology in Indianapolis at
> 317-232-1646, Smith said.
>
>
Jack...I know how you feel. The same happened in Pike County,
Indiana.The case went before the judge with the coal company (shovel in
hand) waiting for the ruling. We put up a good defense to no avail. The
judge gets his salary from the coal workers so he signed it and that was
it. They moved the cemetery and did not allow anyone, not even the great
grandson of the Civil War vet. buried there to witness it.They were put
in plastic k-Mart or Walmart containers with a shovel full. The state
was not involved unless you mean DNR. A funeral director was present and
the coal company. Laws don't mean a thing to these big companies.
We need your help and input even if you think it does not help. Hang in
there.
Natalie